I agree on some aspects..Gyan wrote:Ramanna,ramana wrote:Before INSAS system the IA had 7.62x51 SLR and LMGs. All using same cartridge.
When 5.56x45 mm was viable, the IA wanted a small arms system that uses the cartridge.
This resulted in INSAS rifle, carbine and LMG.
Carbine failed the IA tests and won't go into it.
Rifle on paper looks good with right barrel length etc.
However design and production glitches caused many frustrations.
- Magazine cracks, hot lubricating oil spray, jamming.
Worst was the impotence against terrorist armed with Ak-47 guns.
Per the theory INSAS should have the stopping power.: barrel length, rifling twist, muzzle velocity etc.
If the bullet did not have stopping power its because of loss of velocity which is cartridge driven as barrel length etc are already set.
Are OFB made cartridges up-to snuff?
All involved parties DRDO, OFB, and IA were not forth coming to fix the problems with MoD a passive overseer.
The press also has DDM who can't ask proper questions to find out answers.
Interestingly not much complaint about the INSAS LMG!
The US Army and Marines have gone for M4 and the heavier 7.62mm cartridge is for specialist role.
in fact the Marines have given up on the pistol armament for the officers.
B_Thakur or Manjgu tell me whats really wrong with the picture.
General rants we can get from the web.
I want real issues.
One of the problem is to separate propaganda from the actual issues
The second problem is that there are multiple views about the actual issues also
The limitations of 5.56 calibre is inherent in the said calibre and is present in all the bullets. The Indian round designed by DRDO and manufactured by ofb was supposed to be better in some respects compared to NATO around but it fell short. This limitation was not excessive and round continued to be useful and fulfilled the army parameters. as I understand OFB is now able to manufacture nato round and this is no more an issue
There was no problem in LMG because manufacture of LMG was stopped in 2001this manufacturing was restarted in 2012 after the problems in metallurgy of the barrel was solved.
Looking back the design of insas was started in 1975 -80 and manufacturing should have been started year 1985-90 snd completed by 1995-2000. But the production run continued till 2015 and by that time the design was outdated
Lot of abuse of insas is by the import lobby. I have repeatedly pointed out on this forum that DRDO analysed the problems in insas and at least since 2005 their request to design and develop a new rifle has been pending with the Army
Ultimately when Army released the requisite GSQRs to develop a new rifle, DRDO has been able to develop MCI WS which has been forcefully shut down by the army for a quick import. How quick, we all know.
7.62x51 calibre is making a comeback due to battlefield experience in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yugoslavia etc.
Due to improvements in a design, propellant and metallurgy a 7.62x51 rifle/gpmg can be made much shorter and lighter. Hence DMRs, GPMGs are being added at section level.
I disagree a bit on LMG. There are design issues.
MCIWS had problems but could have been pursued.
Unfortunately despite Insas 1C and MCIWS and OFB attemts the DRDO and the OFB have yet to demo any imagination in small arms design.
The INSAS continues to be a mismash of various designs as does the MCIWS.
The army has no confidence in the ability of the combine to design and then maufacture with quality.
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