Understanding the US - Again

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 24 Jan 2019 22:38

The silence of Nick Sandmann
What America is missing about the confrontation between a MAGA-hatted teen and a Native American elder.
By Anna North Jan 23, 2019, 10:40am EST

What’s problematic from this larger incident, if you take [it] from the moment this goes viral to now, is that we easily dismiss things that need to be discussed. People are trying to find holes in the original narrative, and as soon as they find those holes, then that gives us permission to not discuss what we need to be discussing.

Part of that is, what are privileged..... men learning about themselves, not just through their education and their family but through what’s going on at the national level? How they are making sense of themselves, others, and the world around them, and then how are they acting on that? Those are the types of conversations that we need to be [having], and I don’t know how we get there. It requires us to actually be willing to get past, “This narrative is flawed, therefore there’s nothing to be discussed here,” to, “What can we learn from this?”

^^^^^^^^^^
It's apparent to me, from all the way over here in Canada, that the very same kinds of things we're seeing in the USA today, we're seeing elsewhere too.

From here, I'm seeing it around me in Canada, and I'm seeing it from far away, as far as India as well.

I'm pretty sure if we were all sitting with chai and biskoot in the RW, we'd be more polite and would try harder to understand each other -- than we are apparently willing to do in cyber. It now seems the bulk of commentary amounts to snide sniping. This is neither learningful nor noteworthy. Too many members approach BRF as a 'Time Pass', and so the low standards they've set for themselves, really diminishes the value/potential of the forum. This is no way to pursue an "Understanding the US - Again" discussion thread of any worth.

Given everything I've come to understand of the current geopolitical morass and it's roots in Russia, I would have to wonder about any member dismissing the press reporting on the DJT regime: Are they an apparatchik? (It might be an interesting study, to compare their comments/remarks concerning Russian hardware or geopolitical maneuvering, to a given member's remarks on DJT.)

The POTUS is a vulgarian -- nay, vulgar incarnate -- and his supporters are demonstrating a character flaw and a lapse in judgement.

None the less, judgement is coming

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Jan 2019 23:05

>> the current geopolitical morass and it's roots in Russia,

how is the current geopolitical morass have its roots in russia? did russia ask or force the US to get involved in iraq, syria, libya and various other bush wars that have in total beggared many countries and killed lakhs in the last 20 years alone. russia has been mostly keeping to itself and trying to economically recover but NATO wanted to expand and threaten to the gates of moscow. and even now various sabres are rattled using cats paws in eastern europe.
did russia trigger brexit or the economic malaise in PIIGS?
did russia fund the drug cartels that rule central america or the flood tide of migrants into murica and southern europe?
did russia get the US to hand over its entire manufacturing to china or overlook the rampant theft that ensued

russia was busy licking its wounds in the far north corner. russia is too poor to even give a great life to its citizens, let alone "shape things" around the world. russia is nobodys role model. you will get I luv NYC and even I luv BLR shirts(lately) but not I luv Moscow

its murican elites and murican society that is themselves responsible for the current situation. its the start of progress to own up responsibility and think of how to clean the poo poo. right now everyone is having a blast throwing poo poo at each other and at the spinning fan up above.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Jan 2019 23:10

You cannot expand NATO to Baltic states and Ukraine etc without reaction.

What was the need? USSR is long gone. Russia is degraded from superpower to great power. Major threats to US are jihad and cheen. Why poke the bear and now you have a Russian agent in white house.

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 24 Jan 2019 23:11

Sir, if you would just look past the muh ruskies and syrian civilian killers, the root of your continents woe lie in the frankfurt school and the deranged ilk birthed therein. You talk about judgment, but if judgment were to be handed out like the good ol days, these fine folks would have been long cutled.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/child ... utube-show

Desmond Napoles, 11, has been celebrated in national media for emulating the female impersonators, or “drag queens,” he sees on television. His many fans have applauded him for his choice of clothing, wigs, and make-up, seeing him as a champion of “being yourself, always.”

Last week conservative media published concerns for the boy when photographs and video footage of Desmond – or, to use his stage name, “Desmond is Amazing” – dancing on stage at nightclubs in New York and San Francisco went viral. In both venues, Desmond was showered with money as he did an awkward impersonation of singer Gwen Stefani. In the footage of his San Francisco appearance, Desmond rips off his dress to reveal his midriff-baring top as adult men hoot their appreciation.

WEIMAR AMERICA is not just a fanciful notion now, the similarities in depredation between that cesspool and germany after ww1 after too frightening; and with the same set of people at the helm too. So it is really irrelevant about who the titular head of state is and what crimes he is imagined to have done, when the structure of society is rotted from within.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Jan 2019 23:13

perceptive post ricky ji, as usual.

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 24 Jan 2019 23:25

Thank you singha sir.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 24 Jan 2019 23:30

Lalmohan wrote:well from another couple of weeks time the courts and the FBI will start to be severely impacted... now that might be fun!

Well, the conspiracy theorist in me thinks the FBI being shut down might be welcome for this administration. Commentary in the WSJ today about how the FBI overlooked Obama's Iran links. So wheels within wheels.

What if the FBI Had Probed Obama?

By the bureau’s Trump standard, he looked like an agent of Iran.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 25 Jan 2019 00:58

Singha wrote:from smh.com.au

“I felt that as a flight attendant, removing a passenger’s underwear was beyond the scope of my responsibilities,” the flight attendant told a news conference, where she was accompanied by reps from the Taoyuan Flight Attendants Union.

“I told him we couldn’t help him, but he started yelling. He told me to go in there immediately and threatened to relieve himself on the floor,” she said, according to the Daily Mail.

“As the passenger’s genitals were now exposed, one of my colleagues brought a blanket, which I used to cover his modesty,” she continued.

“But he very angrily slapped my hand away, saying he didn’t want it and only wanted me to remove his underwear so he could use the toilet.”

The man also insisted that they keep the door open because otherwise “he couldn’t breathe”.

The women managed to keep the door closed, but the man — whose weight was estimated to be 199kg — then refused to leave the bathroom unless they wiped his backside after he finished with his business.

The flight attendants refused at first but then decided to carry out the disgusting task so he wouldn’t remain in the lavatory.

But things took a turn for the worse when the chief attendant donned three pairs of latex gloves and began wiping him.

“He said, ‘Oh, mmm, deeper, deeper,’ and then accused my chief attendant of not properly cleaning his backside, requesting that she do it again,” she said.

“You can pull my pants back up now,” he finally said, according to the crew member.

The union decried what it described as blatant sexual harassment and asked that EVA sue the passenger, who had defecated in his underwear during a previous flight in May 2018, Focus Taiwan reported.

The union urged the airline to establish standard operation procedures, including making sure that disabled passengers are accompanied by a caretaker.

EVA said in a statement on Monday that flight attendants are allowed to refuse requests they consider inappropriate and that it is prepared to offer assistance, if needed, to sue the offensive passenger.

Jeez America is imploding for sure.

Singha ji Kahaan se dhoondh ke laate hain ye sab khabrein ?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jan 2019 07:50

Just holding up a mirror to white priviledge
If same had been done by a blackie to white flight crew he would have been tasered ,coshed and hauled off in gunny sack and sentenced to 3 years for flashing
Asian societies are too polite to decrepit goras
I wonder if this hathi was flying via taiwan to some other place more known for flesh trade

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jan 2019 07:55

Wh is preparing a draft emergency order to get 7b for the sudenwall

Clear the gunwales boys, full speed ahead engine room,
Snipers deploy up the masts!

Next - a nordwall to teach kAneda a lesson

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 25 Jan 2019 08:36

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote: None the less, judgement is coming

^ + 100. Repent, Sinners and Apparat-chicks!

BTW, here are my 400% unbiased recommendations for the Indian Armed Forces:
1. Buy Mig-35
2. Buy S-400
3. Buy MIL helicopters
4. Buy 30,000 Russian ATGMs.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jan 2019 08:52

If 7b or even 50b is what it takes for the wall its pockey money foc the us budget. Just cut some gold played dod pentagon project or slow it down

It will boost the concrete steel and construction industry on poorer border tracts as they will source that locally for made praudly in america tag

Cnn

ccording to options being considered, the administration could pull: $681 million from Treasury forfeiture funds, $3.6 billion in military construction, $3 billion in Pentagon civil works funds, and $200 million in Department of Homeland Security funds, the official said.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Jan 2019 11:34

Singha wrote:i have kind of lost interest in the whole "DT is done for and will be impeached this week" circus led by CNN/NYT.
its been "this week" for years now.
mueller ji's explosive heavy torpedo that will finally sink the CVN USS DT seems like a dud or stuck in the launch tube.

its no better than the circus that tried to target namo in 2014 and still does.

Reminds me of the blow2modi narrative of the Indian media.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 25 Jan 2019 12:05

I don't think we should be comparing Modi and Trump. A sea of difference between the two leaders.

IK and Trump on the other hand...

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 25 Jan 2019 18:26

The right wing media of US is no less in blowto stuff when Clinton and Obama were in power. In us both camps have powerful media ecosystem that can both promote their pov and demonize other.

And regardless of media daily outrages, fact remains plenty folks have been indicted and many have pled guilty.

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AND IRRELEVANT comparison to modi.

Modi == Trump is an insult to modi. A huge self goal. Don't do that.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 25 Jan 2019 19:56

i never understood why desis wanted to do modi == trump in the first place
every thing is different

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 25 Jan 2019 20:53

Long time ago Shiv, Ramana emight t al had said Christine Fair might be on the rebound from the Mohabbat angle.

Here she admits being s#xually involved with non whites. Watch from 56:00

[youtube]MXJYgcaug00&t=300s[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXJYgcaug00&t=300s

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 25 Jan 2019 21:18

Lalmohan wrote:i never understood why desis wanted to do modi == trump in the first place
every thing is different

I think perhaps it is because the usual suspects - NYT/WaPo and other liberal US media who attack Trump now, did (and do) the same thing to Modi and BJP with constant references to "Right wing Hindu nationalist" and "2002 riots" etc. So their credibility on brf is low.

Unfortunately what people do not realize is this time they are actually right (in most cases) about Trump. They would have happily invented stuff about him in order to attack him but haven't had to. He gave them enough ammunition himself by being a grade A sleazeball.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 25 Jan 2019 21:37

critical thinking is a useful skill...

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 25 Jan 2019 21:44

nachiket wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:i never understood why desis wanted to do modi == trump in the first place
every thing is different
I think perhaps it is because the usual suspects - NYT/WaPo and other liberal US media who attack Trump now, did (and do) the same thing to Modi and BJP with constant references to "Right wing Hindu nationalist" and "2002 riots" etc. So their credibility on brf is low.

Unfortunately what people do not realize is this time they are actually right (in most cases) about Trump. They would have happily invented stuff about him in order to attack him but haven't had to. He gave them enough ammunition himself by being a grade A sleazeball.

Only NRIs are interested in equating trump with modi. In India nobody gives a shit. Maybe NRIs saw both as disruptors battling against leftist establishment. That is all. Their working styles are different and so is their temperament.

Having said that their is definitely one attribute common to both of them. i.e both are mentally very strong.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Jan 2019 22:40

nachiket wrote: I think perhaps it is because the usual suspects - NYT/WaPo and other liberal US media who attack Trump now, did (and do) the same thing to Modi and BJP with constant references to "Right wing Hindu nationalist" and "2002 riots" etc. So their credibility on brf is low.

Yep.

The same chaps who loathe Trump and their running hounds in the media usually do the worst hit jobs on India, Hindus etc..

NYT, Economist, Guardian et al.

The media fraternity is just one pile of self-referencing poop.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 25 Jan 2019 23:05

and their mirror image exists in Fox/Sinclair/Breitbart... hence the need for critical thinking

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Jan 2019 23:26

Lay off the snide remarks Lalmohan. Nobody here needs a certificate from you on critical thinking. If you did do any critical thinking, you'd read this "the media fraternity is one .". As an Indian I couldn't give a darn how they identify as otherwise.

Understood? Take your political preferences elsewhere. We are not here to take sides on US presidential politics as you do.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jan 2019 23:27

Fbi storm troops arrest someone named roger stone

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Jan 2019 03:48

So let's see: Pre-dawn darkness with FBIers in battle gear sneaking through the bushes, banging on the door "FBI, OPEN UP!" with CNN reporters recording with nightvision cameras and recorders in tow on this ultra-hazardous combat mission.
To find out more about THE CRITICAL SENTENCE (quoting from CNN here): "Someone high up in Trump admin was directed to contact Stone to ask about HiC's emails". Ooooooo!!!
This is all "low-key" Mueller professionalism, right? Nooooooo intention to cause Keystone Kops level theatrics?
If this had been orchestrated by Stone himself to show the desperation of the Mueller circus, it could not have been more ludicrous, could it?
My regard for the POTUS office has gone down: this seems to have been more than enough to trigger an immediate firing of Mueller and filing of harassment/terror charges.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 26 Jan 2019 04:54

No more unasked for advice either for me or the rest of the folks here, thanks much. It's a bit too pat and comes across as extremely elitist and condescending, even if you claim that wasn't your intent. Please continue/ stick to the topic. No more thread deviation.

- KM

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Jan 2019 05:23

From foxnews. The choice was to post CNN's gloating on "How We Came To Be There".

The FBI's pre-dawn arrest of President Trump's ex-adviser Roger Stone at his Florida home prompted critics to once again question the tactics of Special Counsel Robert Mueller, after more than a dozen special agents clad in tactical gear raided Stone's property Friday.

Stone, 66, was taken into custody early Friday after being indicted by a federal grand jury a day earlier as part of Mueller’s investigation into Russian meddling and potential collusion with Trump campaign associates during the 2016 presidential election. CNN, which conveniently happened to be staking out Stone's Fort Lauderdale home, posted video of the arrest that showed a team of FBI agents with guns banging on Stone’s door and demanding that he come outside.

ROGER STONE VOWS TO FIGHT CHARGES IN MUELLER PROBE, CALLS INDICTMENT 'POLITICALLY MOTIVATED'

“At the crack of dawn, 29 FBI agents arrived at my home with 17 vehicles, with lights flashing, when they could have contacted my lawyer,” Stone explained after a court appearance Friday. “But the FBI agents were extraordinarily courteous.”

Stone will appear on Fox News Channel's "Tucker Carlson Tonight" on Friday at 8 p.m. ET.

Stone’s attorney added that the arrest was a “spectacle.”

“A SWAT team, searching the house, scaring his wife, scaring his dogs—it was completely unnecessary,” Stone’s attorney said. “A telephone call would have done the job, and he would have appeared. Mr. Stone has nothing to hide.”

The arrest operation drew scrutiny on social media—even from President Trump, who said “Border Coyotes, Drug Dealers and Human Traffickers are treated better,” and questioned “who alerted CNN to be there?”

One federal law enforcement source told Fox News on Friday that the operation was “standard” for a home arrest. The source told Fox News that home arrests typically take place early in the morning with a team of FBI agents in protective gear, adding that Stone’s situation was “nothing out of the ordinary.”

A former senior Justice Department official, now-white collar criminal attorney with Ifrah Law, James Trusty, told Fox News that while common procedure in white collar cases would involve a federal prosecutor contacting the defendant’s attorney, Stone’s charges could have sparked a different approach.
“It shows that there is either a fundamental distrust of Mr. Stone, possibly due to the witness tampering charge, or that there was a real breakdown with his attorney,” Trusty said Friday. “The wild card here is that in charging Stone with a form of obstruction of justice, the Mueller team may view it differently than typical white-collar investigations.”
He added: “If the FBI and the Mueller team believe Stone has engaged in witness tampering, then there is a palpable distrust, which would make them err on the side of surprise, rather than a courtesy phone call.”
FBI'S MANAFORT RAID INCLUDED A DOZEN AGENTS, 'DESIGNED TO INTIMIDATE,' SOURCE SAYS
The 24-page indictment released early Friday alleges that Stone worked to obstruct the House Intelligence Committee’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election by making false statements to the committee, denying he had records sought by the committee and persuading a witness to provide false testimony.
The indictment does not charge Stone with conspiring with WikiLeaks, the anti-secrecy website that published the emails, or with the Russian officers Mueller says hacked them. Instead, it accuses him of witness tampering, obstruction and false statements about his interactions related to WikiLeaks' release.

But former U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia Joseph diGenova blasted the tactic as “outrageous.”
“I am appalled that the U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI have permitted a vindictive use of arrest in a non-violent case with a defendant who was willing to surrender,” diGenova, who has informally been an adviser to the president throughout the Russia investigation, told Fox News. “This is an abuse of power and it underscores the vindictive nature of it by the fact that CNN was alerted ahead of time.”
He added: “For those of us who have been prosecutors and have prosecuted mob figures, drug dealers and terrorists—those are the people for whom these aggressive tactics are reserved. Not a Roger Stone.”
“Make no mistake,” he said. “This was designed to be vindictive and intimidating.”

My point is why Mr. Mueller feels compelled to use such tactics - unless he knows his mission is an utter flop. A good case presented in court would be far, far more compelling that these banana-republic goon-squad tactics.

It is more than reminescent of the treatment imposed on Mr. Richard Jewell, the security guard who alerted authorities about the bomb(s) placed at the 1996 Olympics. It led to utter humiliation and ridicule of the FBI's local office - but apparently few lessons learned

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 26 Jan 2019 07:51

Guv Shutdown (a spending perspective)
What Shutdown? Federal Spending per Day Is Down Only 7 Percent (Mises)

Debt and Deficits: They’re Unsustainable

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Jan 2019 08:13

If they shut down COTUS and WHOTUS, Global Warming may be eradicated.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jan 2019 08:40

It looked like the night mushrador took over

Well trained people swarming all over

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 26 Jan 2019 11:48

Gus wrote:The right wing media of US is no less in blowto stuff when Clinton and Obama were in power. In us both camps have powerful media ecosystem that can both promote their pov and demonize other.

And regardless of media daily outrages, fact remains plenty folks have been indicted and many have pled guilty.

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AND IRRELEVANT comparison to modi.

Modi == Trump is an insult to modi. A huge self goal. Don't do that.

The comparison is to the media coverage by the presstitutes, the left-wing urban naxalite types get favorable coverage from the press and conservatives, or more correctly, the nationalists get negative coverage. In that sense it is a valid comparison. Already the Democratic party is condemning Tulsi Gabbard as the only Hindu who is running for president because her views on rational global engagement and preservation of the family structure does not fall into the category where individualism is more important than family, community and country.

saip · Post by **saip** » 26 Jan 2019 14:33

This round: Nancy came, Nancy saw, Nancy conquered. Trump lost.
Wait for the next round - Feb 15.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Jan 2019 16:31

CNN is desperately shouting about "lost" as if this was a bloody game, but what is lost? Trump seems to have found the money for the Wall. Without any DACA backdown. What did the Democrats gain, beyond passing a temporary budget where the POTUS had already agreed to everything except adding Wall$$? After 3 weeks, with back pay given to the employees and maybe even an advance, he can again shut down the parts of the govt that he wants to shut down. If the POTUS can rule by Emergency fiat, while the COTUS is constipated and can't pass any bills beyond 15-day stopgaps, it seems that the WHOTUS gains much more power. IOW, COTUS has to release money to the Executive Branch, without any long-term momentum to pursue their own legislative agenda. He can give the SOTUA from the Press Room, with only his fawning *itler-Jugend and elephant senators and Reps invited, present and applauding.

Note that Jan 20 has come and gone. Don't look now, but the entire fireworks about the New COTUS dominated by donkeys being sworn in and Inaugurated, has been doused in the depression of the Shutdown.

I wonder when he will pass an Emergency Order that COTUS and their subsidized cafeteria and free medical clinic cannot be paid during shutdowns. THAT will cause some serious ROLAIDS moments.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 26 Jan 2019 22:00

saip wrote:This round: Nancy came, Nancy saw, Nancy conquered. Trump lost.
Wait for the next round - Feb 15.

He did fold and got less than originally bargained for. Pelosi is a very shrewd parliamentarian. During the 2016 Republic Day, she accompanied Obama to India, I remember seeing her on DD coverage of Republic Day.

The whole mess was caused by Ann Coulter, when DT flipped-flopped on continuing resolution funding bill on 12/19/18. McConnell the other shrewd senator didn't plan on DT flipping, or the bill would never have originally passed that week.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Jan 2019 22:37

Ann Coulter has congratulated Dubya (or was it his daddy?) on not being the most wimpy POTUS in history, anymore.

Then again CNN is losing its marbles?

Furloughed workers: We support the shutdown
Federal law enforcement officers Charles and Jill Gilbert, who did not receive paychecks during the government shutdown, say they support President Trump's efforts to fund his border wall.

The pig-headedness is truly at amazing levels. A COTUSperson said:

Nancy Pelosi said a Wall is Immoral. How can walls be immoral? I have 4 walls around my house, that keep people, and critters, out.

Duh! I have a woodpecker, several squirrels, several deer and snakes all trying to get into my house too.
The above statement was blazed on Twitter as

Congressman racist: Compares Immigrants To Critters!

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 28 Jan 2019 10:35

saip wrote:This round: Nancy came, Nancy saw, Nancy conquered. Trump lost.
Wait for the next round - Feb 15.

this idea of a prez and legislature holding a govt hostage is quite laughable. I asked this before...I really cannot think of any other major country having this sort of "negotiating".

much touted american democracy, institutions, checks and balances blah blah..all that reputation destroyed..and more to come as heat is getting to top tier

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jan 2019 11:52

for the size of pie we have, the numbers of people who are deprived of their due, the looting and BIF plays that go on, india is a miraculously peaceful and sharing society. a poor guy will mostly share his meager food with a poorer neighbour.

my bet is any western society forced to ensure a prolonged fall in their std of living will break out in these "dissidence" and "yellow jacket" type movements and one fringe will use their weapons. nobody wants to wake up and get used to gravy train bringing less benefits. in EU it will be harsher as govt underwrote a cradle to grave welfare state leaving them free to work <= 40 hrs a week, 30-45 days PTO and long jaunts to various parts of the world, "gap years" and so on.

the western middle middle class has been stagnating in terms of real upliftment for the last 20-30 years....a long period of autorotation and coasting .... the upper middle class in some areas have got the gravy and the rich class has wolfed down 80% of the meat on table.

inter generational economic mobility may have declined. time was a man could work in a good unionized job with benefits, put his kids into a state funded college and hope to retire with some savings .... that "social contract" has been broken by the rich elites who want ALL the pie rather than 80% and have a insatiable hunger to corner wealth, top jobs, univ seats...a dynastic succession of elites cornering it all.

who knows what the future holds? there is only so much a police state can control.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 28 Jan 2019 13:00

in many ways, the underclass of india have more political power to go around these tools. they can at least control the areas of their own living and form their own ecosystem and support system...

the credit rating and arrest record etc can ruin somebody's life in massa where they can only live either destitute or a criminal. one slip and you are done for.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jan 2019 13:48

NYT has a op-ed today titled "the fleecing of millenials"

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 28 Jan 2019 15:16

my last workplace had a dozen 20 something folks...bright guys..one was 28..moved up ranks from developer to sr.dev to now architect. one day he confided to me that he finally paid off his student debt..and now thinking of proposing to his live-in gf.

the rest of the guys all had credit card debt and student loan debts, driving budget cars, some were living with parents, most were with roomies, not one of them owned a home. a few were married but postponing the kids. at least one guy was an incel that I know of.

this is dramatic reversal when i first landed in massa..