Oh yes you are Admiral not SirRakesh wrote:Sumeet, please do not call me Sir
VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Demystifying Rafale riddle
https://www.dailypioneer.com/2019/colum ... iddle.html
By Pathikrit Payne - The writer is a New Delhi-based strategic affairs analyst
21 January 2019
The UPA created the policy of allowing foreign defence manufacturers to decide their partners for fulfilling offset obligations. Why is it having a problem with Dassault's selection then? The debate surrounding the purchase of 36 Rafale jets by the Modi Government from Dassault Aviation has one critical element that needs to be mentioned. It was an emergency purchase necessitated by the dwindling fleet of the IAF, massive fleet augmentation by both Pakistan and China in the last decade and negotiations between Dassault and HAL over production of Rafale in India reaching a dead end. The 36 fighters or two squadrons, one each for the western and eastern fronts, are expected to contain the downslide of the IAF fleet even as negotiations continue for bigger deals.
Why 36 and not 126: An emergency purchase cannot be of the entire quantity but of the bare minimum requirement and thus the order was for 36 and not 126. Also, as mentioned by Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman, there is enough precedence of India opting for two squadrons initially while acquiring new platforms as was the case with acquisition of MiG-29, MiG-23 and Mirage-2000s in the 1980s and then going forward for follow-on acquisition of more platforms once IAF was reasonably acclimatised itself with the platform.
Government in process of acquiring 229 combat craft in total: Further, the decision of the Modi Government to purchase 36 Rafale jets was complemented with RFP sent by IAF to HAL for an additional 83 LCA in Mark 1A configuration. Likewise, an RFI has also been issued for acquisition of 110 combat craft to be made in India by a shortlisted global aerospace manufacturer under the strategic partnership model. Therefore, India is in the process of acquisition of 229 combat craft for IAF in total. This nixes the false argument that Government is only buying 36 craft.
Why Rafale: Dassault Rafale was shortlisted for IAF during the UPA era. Spread over several months, IAF had already conducted extensive technical and flight evaluations, based on more than 600 parameters. Thus, purchasing Rafale by the Modi Government made sense. Just because of stalled negotiations between HAL and Dassault, it would have made no sense if the NDA Government had chosen some other jet or started the process all over again.
What went wrong with HAL: In fact, negotiations between HAL and Dassault reaching a dead-end had little to do with the quality of Rafale and more to do with the refusal of Dassault to agree to the humongous man-hour quoted by HAL (2.7 times more than what Dassault needs to make a Rafale) for the deal, and also, the refusal of Dassault to guarantee the quality of production if the jets were to be built by HAL in India. Under the MMRCA project, HAL was supposed to manufacture 108 planes in India while 18 were to be procured in fly-away condition from Dassault’s factory. This was eventually scrapped.
Incidentally, Dassault’s complaints about HAL’s production quality has precedence too. In 2015, Boeing had walked out of a contract with HAL for construction of weapons bay doors for P8I Poseidon aircraft due to alleged “poor quality” of production by HAL. Before that, WikiLeaks released a confidential cable sent by former US Ambassador to India Timothy Roemer in which he wrote, “The potential for HAL to successfully partner with US firms on a truly advanced aircraft remains untested and suspect.”
On the issue of why 36 Rafales ordered by the Modi Government are not being manufactured in India, the UPA should first answer why its purchase of aircraft like C-17, C-130J and P-8I Poseidon happened as off-the-shelf purchases from abroad instead of them being manufactured in India by HAL. If the rationale then was justified that the quantum was too small for licence production in India, the same logic applies now too for 36 Rafale.
Myth surrounding CCS approval: A dubious allegation that has often been made by Opposition parties is that the Modi Government went ahead and announced the deal without necessary approval of the Cabinet Committee of Security or CCS. For the uninitiated, as per Defence Procurement Procedure, CCS approval is needed just before signing of the final contract with equipment manufacturer for a deal, and not before that. Incidentally, when Prime Minister Modi announced in France in April 2015 that India would acquire 36 Dassault Rafale in fly-away condition from France, it was a mere ‘Statement of Intent’ which does not need CCS approval. This was followed by intense negotiation on pricing over several months by the Contract Negotiation Committee. As per reports, the CCS approval was given in August 2016 followed by signing of the final contract in September 2016, which is absolutely in tune with laid down rules.
Myth of Rs 520 crore price: During his speech in Lok Sabha in July 2018, Congress chief Rahul Gandhi had stated that UPA had negotiated a price of Rs 520 core for each Rafale combat jet. One should ask Congress if this includes the cost of missiles, avionics, spares and training. If yes, then where is the documentary evidence? If not, then what was UPA negotiating for Rs 520 crore? Why could it not conclude the deal with Dassault even then?
In reality, for Rs 520 crore in the present day, one would not even get the chassis of a Rafale jet, leave alone a battle-proven, combat capable aircraft armed with missiles and avionics. In the battlefield, a fighter jet without requisite weapon systems, cutting edge avionics and spares is comparable to a bullock cart which may be good enough for air show acrobatics but not good enough for fighting wars and winning them.
As per reports, the Rafales ordered by Modi Government would be armed with Scalp cruise missiles with a 500 km range, air-to-air missiles like Meteor with around 100 km range, Thales made Spectra Electronic Warfare Suite, RBE2 AESA radar and Thales’ Airborne Reconnaissance Observation System, namely AREOS. There are also reports of specific enhancements (possibly to carry Brahmos) to be made on Rafales for India. All these cost money. Therefore, in addition to the price of the basic craft negotiated by Modi Government for Rs 670 crore a piece (compared to Rs 737 Crore of UPA for the basic craft) the rest of the cost can be justifiably attributed to weapon systems and avionics.
Additionally, the current deal for 36 Rafales also has an unprecedented 50 per cent offset and local sourcing clause, which means that Dassault and its tier-1 vendors would have to invest back around Rs 30,000 crore in developing aerospace capabilities in India through joint ventures with Indian companies, source components from them and thus eventually help Indian companies become part of the global aerospace supply chain.
The irrationality of Rs 520 crore claim: The irrationality of the Rs 520 crore price quoted by Rahul Gandhi can be proved by the fact that for a basic platform of LCA MK 1A, HAL is quoting a price of Rs 463 crore a piece, which does not even include cost of logistics or weapon systems. Does it then make sense if it is claimed that a weapon and avionics-laced fifth generation Rafale (which is a generation ahead of the LCA MK1A), would be made available to India for a mere Rs 520 crore? If in 2011, UPA could spend $3.9 billion for upgradation of 25-year-old Mirage 2000s of IAF wherein it agreed to pay $2.4 billion to Dassault for upgradation, an additional $1 billion for complementary weapons and another $500 million more for developing a facility for HAL to get them modernised here with Dassault’s support, then one wonders on what ground Rahul Gandhi expects an armed Rafale to cost a mere Rs 520 crore a piece in 2016.
Truth about offset: Perhaps the biggest misinformation that has been spread systematically is that the Anil Ambani Group has replaced HAL in the Rafale deal and that Ambani’s company would be getting Rs 30,000 crore of contracts. First, Reliance Defence has not replaced HAL. Rafales being procured by the Modi Government would be built in France and not in India. Therefore, there is no question of them being made by Reliance. Second, of the Rs 30,000 crore worth of offset and local component sourcing obligation of Dassault and its tier-1 vendors, namely Safran and Thales, the biggest beneficiary is DRDO.
Recently, a television channel graphically explained how DRDO would get Rs 9000 crore worth of offset benefits through collaboration with Safran, which would help it in reviving the stalled Kaveri engine programme. The remaining Rs 21,000 crore worth of offset obligations are to be split among around 90 odd companies which are proposed offset partners of Dassault, Thales and Safran. Out of those 90 companies, Reliance has one joint venture each with Thales and Dassault. The list also includes other companies like the state-owned BEL, Samtel, HCL, Mahindra Aerostructures, L&T, IBM India, TCS, Tata Advanced Systems, Godrej & Boyce and Wipro Infrastructure Engineering to name a few. As per media reports, the total offset contracts accruing to Reliance Defence may be just over three per cent of the Rs 30,000-crore offsets in the offing.
Incidentally, it was during the UPA era that a policy decision was institutionalised which stated, “The OEM/vendor/Tier-I sub-vendor will be free to select the Indian offset partner for implementing the offset obligation, provided the IOP has not been barred from doing business by the Ministry of Defence.” This is as per Section 4.3 of the ‘Defence Procurement Procedure-Revision of Defence Offset Guidelines’, approved by the Ministry of Defence on July 23, 2012. In other words, it was the UPA which created the policy of allowing the foreign defence manufacturers to decide their Indian partners for offset obligation fulfilment. If Rahul Gandhi had no problem with this policy during the UPA era, one wonders why he has a problem with Dassault’s selection of offset partners now?
https://www.dailypioneer.com/2019/colum ... iddle.html
By Pathikrit Payne - The writer is a New Delhi-based strategic affairs analyst
21 January 2019
The UPA created the policy of allowing foreign defence manufacturers to decide their partners for fulfilling offset obligations. Why is it having a problem with Dassault's selection then? The debate surrounding the purchase of 36 Rafale jets by the Modi Government from Dassault Aviation has one critical element that needs to be mentioned. It was an emergency purchase necessitated by the dwindling fleet of the IAF, massive fleet augmentation by both Pakistan and China in the last decade and negotiations between Dassault and HAL over production of Rafale in India reaching a dead end. The 36 fighters or two squadrons, one each for the western and eastern fronts, are expected to contain the downslide of the IAF fleet even as negotiations continue for bigger deals.
Why 36 and not 126: An emergency purchase cannot be of the entire quantity but of the bare minimum requirement and thus the order was for 36 and not 126. Also, as mentioned by Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman, there is enough precedence of India opting for two squadrons initially while acquiring new platforms as was the case with acquisition of MiG-29, MiG-23 and Mirage-2000s in the 1980s and then going forward for follow-on acquisition of more platforms once IAF was reasonably acclimatised itself with the platform.
Government in process of acquiring 229 combat craft in total: Further, the decision of the Modi Government to purchase 36 Rafale jets was complemented with RFP sent by IAF to HAL for an additional 83 LCA in Mark 1A configuration. Likewise, an RFI has also been issued for acquisition of 110 combat craft to be made in India by a shortlisted global aerospace manufacturer under the strategic partnership model. Therefore, India is in the process of acquisition of 229 combat craft for IAF in total. This nixes the false argument that Government is only buying 36 craft.
Why Rafale: Dassault Rafale was shortlisted for IAF during the UPA era. Spread over several months, IAF had already conducted extensive technical and flight evaluations, based on more than 600 parameters. Thus, purchasing Rafale by the Modi Government made sense. Just because of stalled negotiations between HAL and Dassault, it would have made no sense if the NDA Government had chosen some other jet or started the process all over again.
What went wrong with HAL: In fact, negotiations between HAL and Dassault reaching a dead-end had little to do with the quality of Rafale and more to do with the refusal of Dassault to agree to the humongous man-hour quoted by HAL (2.7 times more than what Dassault needs to make a Rafale) for the deal, and also, the refusal of Dassault to guarantee the quality of production if the jets were to be built by HAL in India. Under the MMRCA project, HAL was supposed to manufacture 108 planes in India while 18 were to be procured in fly-away condition from Dassault’s factory. This was eventually scrapped.
Incidentally, Dassault’s complaints about HAL’s production quality has precedence too. In 2015, Boeing had walked out of a contract with HAL for construction of weapons bay doors for P8I Poseidon aircraft due to alleged “poor quality” of production by HAL. Before that, WikiLeaks released a confidential cable sent by former US Ambassador to India Timothy Roemer in which he wrote, “The potential for HAL to successfully partner with US firms on a truly advanced aircraft remains untested and suspect.”
On the issue of why 36 Rafales ordered by the Modi Government are not being manufactured in India, the UPA should first answer why its purchase of aircraft like C-17, C-130J and P-8I Poseidon happened as off-the-shelf purchases from abroad instead of them being manufactured in India by HAL. If the rationale then was justified that the quantum was too small for licence production in India, the same logic applies now too for 36 Rafale.
Myth surrounding CCS approval: A dubious allegation that has often been made by Opposition parties is that the Modi Government went ahead and announced the deal without necessary approval of the Cabinet Committee of Security or CCS. For the uninitiated, as per Defence Procurement Procedure, CCS approval is needed just before signing of the final contract with equipment manufacturer for a deal, and not before that. Incidentally, when Prime Minister Modi announced in France in April 2015 that India would acquire 36 Dassault Rafale in fly-away condition from France, it was a mere ‘Statement of Intent’ which does not need CCS approval. This was followed by intense negotiation on pricing over several months by the Contract Negotiation Committee. As per reports, the CCS approval was given in August 2016 followed by signing of the final contract in September 2016, which is absolutely in tune with laid down rules.
Myth of Rs 520 crore price: During his speech in Lok Sabha in July 2018, Congress chief Rahul Gandhi had stated that UPA had negotiated a price of Rs 520 core for each Rafale combat jet. One should ask Congress if this includes the cost of missiles, avionics, spares and training. If yes, then where is the documentary evidence? If not, then what was UPA negotiating for Rs 520 crore? Why could it not conclude the deal with Dassault even then?
In reality, for Rs 520 crore in the present day, one would not even get the chassis of a Rafale jet, leave alone a battle-proven, combat capable aircraft armed with missiles and avionics. In the battlefield, a fighter jet without requisite weapon systems, cutting edge avionics and spares is comparable to a bullock cart which may be good enough for air show acrobatics but not good enough for fighting wars and winning them.
As per reports, the Rafales ordered by Modi Government would be armed with Scalp cruise missiles with a 500 km range, air-to-air missiles like Meteor with around 100 km range, Thales made Spectra Electronic Warfare Suite, RBE2 AESA radar and Thales’ Airborne Reconnaissance Observation System, namely AREOS. There are also reports of specific enhancements (possibly to carry Brahmos) to be made on Rafales for India. All these cost money. Therefore, in addition to the price of the basic craft negotiated by Modi Government for Rs 670 crore a piece (compared to Rs 737 Crore of UPA for the basic craft) the rest of the cost can be justifiably attributed to weapon systems and avionics.
Additionally, the current deal for 36 Rafales also has an unprecedented 50 per cent offset and local sourcing clause, which means that Dassault and its tier-1 vendors would have to invest back around Rs 30,000 crore in developing aerospace capabilities in India through joint ventures with Indian companies, source components from them and thus eventually help Indian companies become part of the global aerospace supply chain.
The irrationality of Rs 520 crore claim: The irrationality of the Rs 520 crore price quoted by Rahul Gandhi can be proved by the fact that for a basic platform of LCA MK 1A, HAL is quoting a price of Rs 463 crore a piece, which does not even include cost of logistics or weapon systems. Does it then make sense if it is claimed that a weapon and avionics-laced fifth generation Rafale (which is a generation ahead of the LCA MK1A), would be made available to India for a mere Rs 520 crore? If in 2011, UPA could spend $3.9 billion for upgradation of 25-year-old Mirage 2000s of IAF wherein it agreed to pay $2.4 billion to Dassault for upgradation, an additional $1 billion for complementary weapons and another $500 million more for developing a facility for HAL to get them modernised here with Dassault’s support, then one wonders on what ground Rahul Gandhi expects an armed Rafale to cost a mere Rs 520 crore a piece in 2016.
Truth about offset: Perhaps the biggest misinformation that has been spread systematically is that the Anil Ambani Group has replaced HAL in the Rafale deal and that Ambani’s company would be getting Rs 30,000 crore of contracts. First, Reliance Defence has not replaced HAL. Rafales being procured by the Modi Government would be built in France and not in India. Therefore, there is no question of them being made by Reliance. Second, of the Rs 30,000 crore worth of offset and local component sourcing obligation of Dassault and its tier-1 vendors, namely Safran and Thales, the biggest beneficiary is DRDO.
Recently, a television channel graphically explained how DRDO would get Rs 9000 crore worth of offset benefits through collaboration with Safran, which would help it in reviving the stalled Kaveri engine programme. The remaining Rs 21,000 crore worth of offset obligations are to be split among around 90 odd companies which are proposed offset partners of Dassault, Thales and Safran. Out of those 90 companies, Reliance has one joint venture each with Thales and Dassault. The list also includes other companies like the state-owned BEL, Samtel, HCL, Mahindra Aerostructures, L&T, IBM India, TCS, Tata Advanced Systems, Godrej & Boyce and Wipro Infrastructure Engineering to name a few. As per media reports, the total offset contracts accruing to Reliance Defence may be just over three per cent of the Rs 30,000-crore offsets in the offing.
Incidentally, it was during the UPA era that a policy decision was institutionalised which stated, “The OEM/vendor/Tier-I sub-vendor will be free to select the Indian offset partner for implementing the offset obligation, provided the IOP has not been barred from doing business by the Ministry of Defence.” This is as per Section 4.3 of the ‘Defence Procurement Procedure-Revision of Defence Offset Guidelines’, approved by the Ministry of Defence on July 23, 2012. In other words, it was the UPA which created the policy of allowing the foreign defence manufacturers to decide their Indian partners for offset obligation fulfilment. If Rahul Gandhi had no problem with this policy during the UPA era, one wonders why he has a problem with Dassault’s selection of offset partners now?
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
The article is a mess! Those editors need to take some website design courses
But if you can navigate through below, it is a good read.
RAFALE - LIES LIES AND LIES
https://vaanaram.in/rafale_congress_lie ... rncavalry/
But if you can navigate through below, it is a good read.
RAFALE - LIES LIES AND LIES
https://vaanaram.in/rafale_congress_lie ... rncavalry/
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
wonder what the ex chairman of HAL would say now??
Slow HAL impacting India's air combat strength: IAF to Govt
Slow HAL impacting India's air combat strength: IAF to Govt
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Shortage of funds hits infrastructure development of Rafale defence airbase
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 733260.cms
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 733260.cms
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1090565906227490817 ---> Goa CM Manohar Parrikar writes to Congress President Rahul Gandhi, writes "I feel let down that you have used this visit for your petty political gains. In the 5 minutes you spent with me, neither did you mention anything about Rafale, nor did we discuss anything related to it.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Cost break-up of Rafale deal - How Rahul Gandhi & Media lied to you
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Read this biography and you will be awed!
And Congress has the gall to call him, Air Marshal SBP Sinha and Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa liars. WOW!
I post this in the Rafale thread, because Air Marshal R Nambiar and Air Marshal SBP Sinha were closely involved in the Rafale deal.
Air Marshal Nambiar sitting in a Rafale cockpit...
And Congress has the gall to call him, Air Marshal SBP Sinha and Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa liars. WOW!
I post this in the Rafale thread, because Air Marshal R Nambiar and Air Marshal SBP Sinha were closely involved in the Rafale deal.
Air Marshal Nambiar sitting in a Rafale cockpit...
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Joke of the Day! 
https://twitter.com/00Rajeev13/status/1 ... 8974737409 ---> This is how the Rafale deal is explained by Rahool!
https://twitter.com/00Rajeev13/status/1 ... 8974737409 ---> This is how the Rafale deal is explained by Rahool!
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
This tamasha and constant lying by raul about rafale is a case of desperation. if Modiji comes back to power this year again some of their family members are going to jail, priyanka,s hubby is first in line.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
he could go right away but it would be providing some ammo for the congressSuresh S wrote:This tamasha and constant lying by raul about rafale is a case of desperation. if Modiji comes back to power this year again some of their family members are going to jail, priyanka,s hubby is first in line.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Video of Rafale dogfighting with F-22 , HUD view of Rafale
https://twitter.com/EmirLouise/status/1 ... 8497145857
https://twitter.com/EmirLouise/status/1 ... 8497145857
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
The photo on top is the Qatari Rafale that was handed over to the Qatari Air Force today. The first Indian Rafale is in the photo at bottom, I believe. That is the one with India Specific Enhancements and will be delivered only by April 2022. Please make note of the tweet below. While the first four are being delivered in September 2019, they will likely arrive only in May 2020 as per recent media reports.
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1093140413333098497 ---> As Qatar gets its 1st Rafale today, we can confirm that the Indian Air Force is set to receive FOUR Rafales in the first delivery batch this September.
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1093140413333098497 ---> As Qatar gets its 1st Rafale today, we can confirm that the Indian Air Force is set to receive FOUR Rafales in the first delivery batch this September.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Looks pretty and looking at the dog fight video with F22 it’s got lot of energy to keep up with it
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Shiv Aroor makes a visit to DRAL in Nagpur. Enjoy the 7+ mins video.
By 2022 entire Falcon Jet will be made here. Great beginning and hope the merry continues. If more Rafale are ordered this plant would make natural sense for being center of production.
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1093717996609114112
By 2022 entire Falcon Jet will be made here. Great beginning and hope the merry continues. If more Rafale are ordered this plant would make natural sense for being center of production.
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1093717996609114112
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
fake news generated and shared by an Indian newspaper editor by maliciously and selectively clipping the file notings. Manohar Parrikar's noting has deliberately been clipped out in a spiteful manner to draw a preferred but wrong conclusion.
Also, it is seen that Manohar Parrikar's noting has been perused and signed by all the people who raised objections and no objections remain after Manohar Parrikar's noting.
In any other country, this paper would have been shut down and the editor, no matter who he was, would have been fired.
and, our very very famous "editors guild" has no guts to take up this issue.
Also, it is seen that Manohar Parrikar's noting has been perused and signed by all the people who raised objections and no objections remain after Manohar Parrikar's noting.
In any other country, this paper would have been shut down and the editor, no matter who he was, would have been fired.
and, our very very famous "editors guild" has no guts to take up this issue.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Just to note, total 22 people work here as of now.Sumeet wrote:Shiv Aroor makes a visit to DRAL in Nagpur. Enjoy the 7+ mins video.
By 2022 entire Falcon Jet will be made here. Great beginning and hope the merry continues. If more Rafale are ordered this plant would make natural sense for being center of production.
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1093717996609114112
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Yess Saar! Plus it's sister company RNEL has filed for bankruptcy!JayS wrote:
Just to note, total 22 people work here as of now.
Shame on this type of ladoo journalism, where you show just a single hangar as epitome of lastest and greatest manufacturing.
Got to admit Dassault and boeing are really experts in social engineering. HAL should learn from this style of marketing.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
It looks like they only assemble the pieces there and none of the pieces are manufactured in-house. I do not see any machining operation. I wonder where they must be getting manufactured.
Anyhow good progress. I hope though the business can be sustained given AA's precarious financial situation.
Anyhow good progress. I hope though the business can be sustained given AA's precarious financial situation.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Rafale deal clean, PMO didn’t interfere: Former defence secretary quoted by The Hindu
https://theprint.in/defence/rafale-deal ... du/189727/
https://theprint.in/defence/rafale-deal ... du/189727/
G. Mohan Kumar says PMO wanted Rafale deal fast-tracked, and his own notings were ‘free and frank’, as encouraged by then-minister Manohar Parrikar.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Nobody flagged any objections before me, says IAF officer who led Rafale negotiations
https://theprint.in/defence/nobody-flag ... ns/189634/
https://theprint.in/defence/nobody-flag ... ns/189634/
Reacting to a news report about MoD officials raising objections to the Rafale deal, former IAF deputy chief S.B.P. Sinha says he’s heard about this only now.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Rafale: PMO above MoD, it can’t be called a parallel negotiation says Air Marshal Pandey
https://www.oneindia.com/india/rafale-p ... 48860.html
https://www.oneindia.com/india/rafale-p ... 48860.html
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Look at the foolishness of this man!!! Just listen to this...jeez!
Rahul Gandhi’s cruel joke on pilots, says money from Rafale deal could be given as compensation when they die in crash
https://www.opindia.com/2019/02/rahul-g ... -in-crash/
Rahul Gandhi’s cruel joke on pilots, says money from Rafale deal could be given as compensation when they die in crash
https://www.opindia.com/2019/02/rahul-g ... -in-crash/
Rahul Gandhi also continued with his lies while talking about the defence ministry note. Showing a printout of the cropped document, he said “it is written clearly here, that Prime Minister of India is a thief. He has stolen 30,000 crores from you, the defence ministry is objecting to his interference. Mr Anil Ambani is his man, and Mr Anil Ambani has been given 30,000 crore of your money. Now, my friends in the Air Force, pilots, remember one thing, this 30,000 crores could have been used for your safety, this 30,000 crores could have been given to your family, this 30,000 crore could have given to you, when you die in a plane crash. This is your money, this not the money of Anil Ambani”
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
“The Hindu report is an effort to malign the Rafale Deal”, says Air Marshal SBP Sinha, head of Indian Negotiation Team
https://www.opindia.com/2019/02/the-hin ... tion-team/
Air Marshal SBP Sinha, who had headed the Indian Negotiation Team (INT) for the Rafale deal has expressed his surprise over The Hindu’s story on Rafale and termed it as an effort to malign this procurement by concealing facts. Air Marshal SBP Sinha also said that SK Sharma, Deputy Secretary (Air-II), who wrote the dissent note, was not part of the Indian negotiation team. ‘On whose behest he initiated this note?’, the head of IMT asked. The Indian Negotiating Team (INT) was headed by Deputy Chief of the Air Staff of Indian Air Force, and it included Joint Secretary and Acquisition Manager (Air), Joint Secretary (Defence Offset Management Wing), Joint Secretary and Additional Financial Advisor, Finance Manager (Air), Advisor (Cost) and Assistance Chief of Air Staff (Plans) as members. Therefore, it is surprising why the Deputy Secretary (Air-II) would get involved in the process, when the officer was not part of the team negotiating the deal. “This is an internal noting. It was written by Deputy Secretary SK Sharma from Air II who was not a part of the Indian Negotiation Team. The note has nothing to do with the Indian Negotiation Team. The Joint Secretary and Aquisition Manager Air forwarded it despite being part of the Indian Negotiation Team and did not notify the team. This note was killed in MoD,” said Retd. Air Marshal SBP Sinha.
Referring to the Hindu’s Rafale story, he said that the article was an attempt to malign the negotiation that happened for the procurement of the 36 Rafale jets by concealing facts. He said that the note was an internal matter and had nothing to do with the Indian negotiation team that he headed. “It was about sovereign guarantees and general terms and conditions. The context is there in the newspaper. Whatever has been brought out (in the newspaper), it has nothing to do with pricing. Negotiations are not just for pricing but other things also. It was about sovereign guarantees and general terms and conditions,” Kumar told the media when asked if he remembered the context of the note. In a hurry to target the Narendra Modi government, Congress President Rahul Gandhi had used the half-truth reported by the Hindu and had claimed that Prime Minister Narendra Modi was running ‘parallel negotiations’ based on an internal report of the Ministry of Defense. He then went on to claim that it was ‘evidence’ of the fact that Modi stole Rs. 30,000 crores and gave it to Anil Ambani. However, that report had failed to mention anywhere that the supposed negotiations carried out by the PMO had nothing to do with money or offset deal with Reliance. Following this, G Mohan Kumar, Defence Secretary at the time of the Rafale negotiations, has come out and said that the ‘dissent note’ had “nothing to do with the price”. Kumar further clarified that whatever is mentioned in The Hindu report has nothing to do with pricing at all.
https://www.opindia.com/2019/02/the-hin ... tion-team/
Air Marshal SBP Sinha, who had headed the Indian Negotiation Team (INT) for the Rafale deal has expressed his surprise over The Hindu’s story on Rafale and termed it as an effort to malign this procurement by concealing facts. Air Marshal SBP Sinha also said that SK Sharma, Deputy Secretary (Air-II), who wrote the dissent note, was not part of the Indian negotiation team. ‘On whose behest he initiated this note?’, the head of IMT asked. The Indian Negotiating Team (INT) was headed by Deputy Chief of the Air Staff of Indian Air Force, and it included Joint Secretary and Acquisition Manager (Air), Joint Secretary (Defence Offset Management Wing), Joint Secretary and Additional Financial Advisor, Finance Manager (Air), Advisor (Cost) and Assistance Chief of Air Staff (Plans) as members. Therefore, it is surprising why the Deputy Secretary (Air-II) would get involved in the process, when the officer was not part of the team negotiating the deal. “This is an internal noting. It was written by Deputy Secretary SK Sharma from Air II who was not a part of the Indian Negotiation Team. The note has nothing to do with the Indian Negotiation Team. The Joint Secretary and Aquisition Manager Air forwarded it despite being part of the Indian Negotiation Team and did not notify the team. This note was killed in MoD,” said Retd. Air Marshal SBP Sinha.
Referring to the Hindu’s Rafale story, he said that the article was an attempt to malign the negotiation that happened for the procurement of the 36 Rafale jets by concealing facts. He said that the note was an internal matter and had nothing to do with the Indian negotiation team that he headed. “It was about sovereign guarantees and general terms and conditions. The context is there in the newspaper. Whatever has been brought out (in the newspaper), it has nothing to do with pricing. Negotiations are not just for pricing but other things also. It was about sovereign guarantees and general terms and conditions,” Kumar told the media when asked if he remembered the context of the note. In a hurry to target the Narendra Modi government, Congress President Rahul Gandhi had used the half-truth reported by the Hindu and had claimed that Prime Minister Narendra Modi was running ‘parallel negotiations’ based on an internal report of the Ministry of Defense. He then went on to claim that it was ‘evidence’ of the fact that Modi stole Rs. 30,000 crores and gave it to Anil Ambani. However, that report had failed to mention anywhere that the supposed negotiations carried out by the PMO had nothing to do with money or offset deal with Reliance. Following this, G Mohan Kumar, Defence Secretary at the time of the Rafale negotiations, has come out and said that the ‘dissent note’ had “nothing to do with the price”. Kumar further clarified that whatever is mentioned in The Hindu report has nothing to do with pricing at all.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Head of Rafale negotiating team slams selective use of MoD note
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 900247.cms
Air Marshal SBP Sinha, who headed the Rafale negotiations from the Indian side, has slammed the bid by an English daily to malign the procurement process. "It was very surprising for me to know that in the article printed today a note within MoD has been used to malign this procurement by concealing facts, the remarks of the defence minister are not there," SBP Sinha told news agency ANI. Manohar Parrikar asked defence secretary to sort out issues with PMO: Complete note on Rafale. Air Marshal SBP Sinha further said that the "Note had nothing to do with Indian team's negotiation on Rafale procurement as it wasn't initiated by the negotiating team."
"The note was initiated by SK Sharma, who was not part of the Indian negotiation team. On whose behest he initiated this note?" he said. The report in the English daily referred to the dissent note, but was silent on the response of former defence minister Manohar Parrikar to that note. The then defence secretary G Mohan Kumar has also clarified that the dissent note had nothing to do with the pricing of the Rafale jets. “It was about sovereign guarantees and general terms and conditions," Kumar told ANI when asked if he remembered the context of the note. "The context is there in the newspaper. Whatever has been brought out (in the newspaper), it has nothing to do with pricing. Negotiations are not just for pricing but other things also. It was about sovereign guarantees and general terms and conditions,” he said.
Kumar, who was the defence secretary from 2015-17, spoke shortly after Congress president Rahul Gandhi accused the PMO of running parallel negotiations and once again charged the government of securing Rafale deal at a higher price. In the Lok Sabha, Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman dismissed the charges of Rahul Gandhi and said that the "Congress is flogging a dead horse". The BJP, meanwhile, described Rahul Gandhi's allegations in the Rafale deal as "yet another lie from his lie-manufacturing factory" and accused the Congress president of working at the behest of foreign forces for the cancellation of the fighter aircraft deal.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 900247.cms
Air Marshal SBP Sinha, who headed the Rafale negotiations from the Indian side, has slammed the bid by an English daily to malign the procurement process. "It was very surprising for me to know that in the article printed today a note within MoD has been used to malign this procurement by concealing facts, the remarks of the defence minister are not there," SBP Sinha told news agency ANI. Manohar Parrikar asked defence secretary to sort out issues with PMO: Complete note on Rafale. Air Marshal SBP Sinha further said that the "Note had nothing to do with Indian team's negotiation on Rafale procurement as it wasn't initiated by the negotiating team."
"The note was initiated by SK Sharma, who was not part of the Indian negotiation team. On whose behest he initiated this note?" he said. The report in the English daily referred to the dissent note, but was silent on the response of former defence minister Manohar Parrikar to that note. The then defence secretary G Mohan Kumar has also clarified that the dissent note had nothing to do with the pricing of the Rafale jets. “It was about sovereign guarantees and general terms and conditions," Kumar told ANI when asked if he remembered the context of the note. "The context is there in the newspaper. Whatever has been brought out (in the newspaper), it has nothing to do with pricing. Negotiations are not just for pricing but other things also. It was about sovereign guarantees and general terms and conditions,” he said.
Kumar, who was the defence secretary from 2015-17, spoke shortly after Congress president Rahul Gandhi accused the PMO of running parallel negotiations and once again charged the government of securing Rafale deal at a higher price. In the Lok Sabha, Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman dismissed the charges of Rahul Gandhi and said that the "Congress is flogging a dead horse". The BJP, meanwhile, described Rahul Gandhi's allegations in the Rafale deal as "yet another lie from his lie-manufacturing factory" and accused the Congress president of working at the behest of foreign forces for the cancellation of the fighter aircraft deal.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Has this SK Sharma dude hit the media circuit yet? I would have thought Pappu's media mouthpieces like UnDy would have put this guy on the air and regurgitate the music that Pappu & Co were singing. Wonder why he isn't talking?
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
The Hindu article that restarted the controversy:
Defence Ministry protested against PMO undermining Rafale negotiations - N. Ram, The Hindu
Rafale Story Of The Day: Was Parrikar’s Name And Reply Cropped Out On Purpose? - Swarajya
Defence Ministry protested against PMO undermining Rafale negotiations - N. Ram, The Hindu
Rafale Story Of The Day: Was Parrikar’s Name And Reply Cropped Out On Purpose? - Swarajya
Earlier today, a report in The Hindu, written by N Ram, Chairman of THG Publishing Private Limited, The Hindu Group's publishing company, claimed that the Defence Ministry had raised strong objections to “parallel negotiations” conducted by the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) for the Rafale deal.
The report, which has reignited the debate on the Rafale Deal, is based on a Defence Ministry note dated 24 November 2015 and signed by the then Deputy Defence Secretary (Air) in the Ministry of Defence (MoD), S K Sharma. A version of the note put out by The Hindu in its report says that the “parallel discussions” by the PMO have “weakened the negotiating position of MoD and Indian Negotiating Team”.
Exclusive: The Defence Ministry had protested against PMO undermining #Rafale negotiations, reports @nramind #RafaleDeal https://t.co/xtLyJejr6p pic.twitter.com/aMpzMbICLs
— The Hindu (@the_hindu) February 7, 2019
“We may advise PMO that any Officers who are not part of Indian Negotiating Team may refrain from having parallel parlays with the officers of French Government,” the note reads, suggesting that “in case the PMO is not confident about the outcome of negotiations being carried out by the MoD, a revised modality of negotiations to be led by PMO at appropriate level may be adopted in the case.”
The note also mentions a letter from General Stephen Reb, the head of the French Negotiating Team, in which he stated that “taking into consideration the outcome of discussions between Diplomatic Adviser to the French Defence Minister and Joint Secretary to PM, no Bank Guarantee is provisioned in the supply protocol and the letter of comfort provides sufficient assurances of the proper implementation of the supply protocol by the industrial suppliers.”
This, the note points, was “contrary to the position taken by the MoD and conveyed by Indian Negotiating Team that the commercial offer should be preferably backed by Sovereign/Government Guarantee or otherwise by Bank Guarantee.”
The note also carries a remark by the then Defence Secretary, G Mohan Kumar, who writes, “RM may pl. see (sic). It is desirable that such discussions be avoided by the PMO as it undermines our negotiating position seriously.”
Viewed in this light, it appears that the office of Prime Minister Narendra Modi interefeared in the negotiations of the Rafale deal and undermined the position of the the team working on the deal on behalf of the MoD.
However, it now appears that the document put out by The Hindu in its report does not give the full picture of the discussion at the MoD. A version of the same document, assessed by ANI and posted on Twitter, shows that it also contains a handwritten note by the then Minister of Defence, now Chief Minister of Goa, Manohar Parrikar.
Good crop, bad crop? The story isn’t over for sure, but important for @The_Hindu to clarify if it cropped the document itself or whether it was already cropped when accessed, to reveal only one part of the story — and not an important reply from the then Defence Minister. pic.twitter.com/WkssDlevCD
— Shiv Aroor (@ShivAroor) February 8, 2019
“It appears PMO and French President office are monitoring the progress of the issue which was an outcome of the summit meeting. Para 5 appears to be an over reaction,” Parrikar added at the end, alleviating fear of interference in the negotiations.
Although it is not known if The Hindu cropped the document to remove Parrikar’s comment or it accessed the document in that form, what is clear is that the efforts to make a scam out of the Rafale deal continue unabated.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
So called controversy - see for yourself:
Source: https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/10 ... 88/photo/1
Source: https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/10 ... 88/photo/1
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
No scam in Rafale deal: Former Defence Secretary Mohan Kumar - TNIE
KOCHI: Former Defence Secretary G Mohan Kumar, who was in the thick of things when the Rafale deal was in the making, came out all guns blazing in support of the Narendra Modi Government and termed the recent reports on the files, some of them highlighting his negative comments regarding PMO and Defence Ministry working at cross purposes, concocted.
READ | Rafale deal: Air Marshal who led talks slams leak
Special Correspondent Ajay Kanth caught up with him in Kochi late on Friday evening. Excerpts of the interview.
Q: You've said your note/comments were taken out of context. Can you explain?
A: We had certain divergent points of view when the discussions were on. Even other members of the Cabinet Committee expressed dissenting voices. In fact, it was Prime Minister Narendra Modi who brought the deal back to the table after it lay cold shouldered during the UPA Government. As the entire deal was between the two countries, parallel discussions were happening between France and the PMO. We raised our concern and insisted a final call on the deal should be made only after reaching a consensus among the members. Finally, we reached an agreement with all stakeholders to go ahead with the deal.
Q: On what grounds are you saying the Rafale deal was transparent?
A: The whole controversy related to the deal is unnecessary. The entire cost of the deal shot up due to valid reasons, mainly cost escalation and rupee depreciation. It was in 2007 that the Defence Acquisition Council headed by then Defence Minister A K Antony approved the Request for Proposal to buy 126 aircraft. But nothing concrete happened during the UPA regime.
It was the Modi Government which started renegotiating the deal. We decided to go for 148 aircrafts though the initial deal was for 36 aircraft in a fly-away status. The government will go for another deal for the remaining aircraft which will be built in India. The report that the decision to buy 36 aircrafts pushed the price of each fully fitted, combat-ready aircraft up by 41.42 per cent is completely baseless.
The Modi Government worked out the deal afresh and we've decided to buy 148 aircraft. The initial deal was for 36 for which the price has gone up due to additional design and development of 13 India Specific Enhancements (ISE).
Q: Are you categorically saying the positions taken by the PMO and Ministry of Defence did not contradict each other?
A: There were differences of opinion at every stage of discussion. It's natural for each member in the committee to come out with divergent views. In any defence deal of this magnitude, there will be contradictory views. The deal was finally struck after both the MoD and the PMO reached a consensus.
Q: The Defence Minister had noted you may resolve the issue in consultation with the Principal Secretary to PM. Was it resolved? How?
Everything is transparent in the entire deal. There were different levels of consultations. France was initiating direct discussion with the PMO. There is nothing wrong in that. The two countries can discuss many things at various levels. We had our reservations which we raised. The deal was struck after we all fully agreed to the terms and conditions. The differences were all resolved.
Q: Do you think the 2019 election outcome will be decided to some extent by the Rafale deal?
I have no comments on politics. But it's certain that Rahul Gandhi is coming out with false details on the deal. He is not supposed to make such rubbish statements and mislead the public. I believe he is making statements looking at the annual report of the Reliance Anil Dhirubhai Ambani Group (R-ADAG). A company's annual report is not a fact sheet to make statements on a government defence deal. The government has no agreement with R-ADAG on Rafale deal.
It was (French company) Dassault which directly entered into a deal with Ambani's company. As per defence offset policy, an arms supplier can directly select its partner.
Q. Are you feeling compelled to give a clean chit to the PMO? Why?
A: I am not with anyone. I did my job as defence secretary. As facts are being distorted, I have the right to say the truth.
Q: So, has the English daily, in its report on Friday, blown certain things out of proportion?
Yes, the reports on Rafale deal are being blown out of proportion for political gains. There is an agenda behind it.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
148 aircraft = 8 squadrons of 18 fighters + 4 reserves. Wow.
ATTN Rakesh saar. I am sure you'll be happy with this
ATTN Rakesh saar. I am sure you'll be happy with this
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
If NDA retains the power seats post GE 2019, can a powerful private citizen (let says some one like Su Swamy) sue INC & its darlings for continuing to defame IAF, PM etc. based on false & selective evidences on the alleged malpractices during Rafale deal? This farce has gone long enough with active encouragement from BIF media outlets...
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Most logical thing to do .. Modi will wait for the GE 2019 to be over before inking any further deal.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Wah would love to see 148 Rafale in IAF colours ....Great News , Hope Modi wins with double mandate and deal gets go ahead.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Guys money for 148 rafales?
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
we can afford 148.Prasad wrote:Guys money for 148 rafales?
BUT MODI FIRST NEEDS TO GET BACK IN THE SADDLE.
If not Modi, any other will kill the rafale deal and get in another country, and many countries are pushing the congis to do just that, a la the artillery guns for the IA were sabotaged for decades because the greedy govt of the day just couldn't make out where it stood to pocket the most moolah
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
36 now, plus 110 of MMRCA2: 146.
so if and once Modi come back then this whole facade of MMRCA2 will go out of window and we will get remaining 110-112.
so if and once Modi come back then this whole facade of MMRCA2 will go out of window and we will get remaining 110-112.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
The real scandal is that there was a clear objective to degrade the combat effectiveness of the IAF by the upa and their supporters after Kargil where the IAF modified the M2000 and demonstrated their operational readiness and capability , hence the lack of progress on the lca and the non-deployment of the Rafale during the decade of upa rule. This became apparent after Mumbai Nov 2008, where there was a clear requirement for new capability but none was forthcomingchetak wrote:we can afford 148.Prasad wrote:Guys money for 148 rafales?
BUT MODI FIRST NEEDS TO GET BACK IN THE SADDLE.
If not Modi, any other will kill the rafale deal and get in another country, and many countries are pushing the congis to do just that, a la the artillery guns for the IA were sabotaged for decades because the greedy govt of the day just couldn't make out where it stood to pocket the most moolah
That N.Ram, who is a known propagandist for the PRC has taken to the air on this together with RG shows that after Doklan the PRC are using these two to cancel the Rafale and any potential strategic partnership with France. MP's revelation that the total build will be for 148 has to be seen in this light.