Military Flight Safety

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 05 Feb 2019 00:01

Rest in eternal peace bravehearts! Thank you for saving 100s of lives by your sacrifice! Our loss is immeasurable and the pain unbearable! God give your families the strength to bear the tragic parting.

It is amazing how small these two men make people like me look!

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 05 Feb 2019 08:41

SQ Leader Siddharth charred body on fire is on Twitter now. WTF
It sickens me, the respect afforded to someone dying a natural death was so high that this video posting nonsense in today's age sickens me to the end.

I have reported it and if you see evidence of it. Please report it as gross and in voilation of anything..

Ffs
Honestly days like this
I feel like it's going the way of dogs

So much more sad today so much more sad today
I hope to God their family does not pick this up on Twitter

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 05 Feb 2019 10:33

Khalsa wrote:SQ Leader Siddharth charred body on fire is on Twitter now. WTF
It sickens me, the respect afforded to someone dying a natural death was so high that this video posting nonsense in today's age sickens me to the end.

I have reported it and if you see evidence of it. Please report it as gross and in voilation of anything..

Ffs
Honestly days like this
I feel like it's going the way of dogs

So much more sad today so much more sad today
I hope to God their family does not pick this up on Twitter

Haven't seen it. Won't see it. Only video that I saw was of every Tom, Dick and Harry rushing with smartphones to capture something. How did people literally walk in from all directions? Time to shut down this airport and move to proper test, military facility. Shall be tweeting to DM, PM about this.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 05 Feb 2019 10:58

^ people have frickin lost their minds.

On another note do we use anything like this to deal with bird strikes on airports? Very interesting idea...

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 05 Feb 2019 13:09

based on 2 videos on twitter, one from Suman Sharma, it is clear that many shabbily dressed civilians had access to the crash site and were helping in carrying the body.
one woman in a lab coat was pumping the chest and then others carried the body by picking from the limbs - They couldnt get a stretcher in time!
If the crash site was within/near the airport, how can they not get the emergency vehicles and basic equipment there, but locals could get there in time.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Feb 2019 17:19

Indian Army Rudra armed chopper makes emergency landing near Bengaluru, reports @NewsNationTV.

https://t.co/oRsYtt2OA8

chola · Post by **chola** » 05 Feb 2019 17:45

Video of the flight and crash. Extreme maneuvers to wring out aircraft or loss of control? It made a rapid descent down to the runway on a very low pass and then clipped the ground with its tail and nozzles before going up again and finally losing control and crashing.

I feel it is too early to blame HAL.

(I hope it is okay to post. It does not include any graphic scenes of the pilots post crash.)

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 05 Feb 2019 18:12

I seriously doubt it is video of this crash. It is very different from what happened from reports.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 05 Feb 2019 18:13

It’s a fairly clean plane, not heavily loaded, most likely single seat, did not go through any barrier. Not this accident

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 05 Feb 2019 18:17

Indeed does not look like what has been described in Bangalore crash so far , The area does not look like Bangalore either.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 05 Feb 2019 18:29

That is not Bangalore. Looks like a very old video taken on video tape.

Original here

chola · Post by **chola** » 05 Feb 2019 18:47

Dileep wrote:That is not Bangalore. Looks like a very old video taken on video tape.

Original here

You are right, Dileep ji! I did not do any research besides reading the caption of Feb 1st Bangalore. Never trust, always verify on web.

My apologies, everyone.

Prithwiraj · Post by **Prithwiraj** » 05 Feb 2019 19:21

chola wrote:
Dileep wrote:That is not Bangalore. Looks like a very old video taken on video tape.

Original here
You are right, Dileep ji! I did not do any research besides reading the caption of Feb 1st Bangalore. Never trust, always verify on web.

My apologies, everyone.

This video is up on youtube for ages !! I think it happened somewhere either Maldives or Mauritius during an airshow. People these days upload random fake videos and tag them to get higher views.

However I vaguely remember one IAF Mirage Crashing during Airshow in one of those island nations if my memory serves me right. So we have a DB of all crashes of IAF Mirage 2000?

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 05 Feb 2019 19:51

Prithwiraj wrote:
chola wrote:

You are right, Dileep ji! I did not do any research besides reading the caption of Feb 1st Bangalore. Never trust, always verify on web.

My apologies, everyone.
This video is up on youtube for ages !! I think it happened somewhere either Maldives or Mauritius during an airshow. People these days upload random fake videos and tag them to get higher views.

However I vaguely remember one IAF Mirage Crashing during Airshow in one of those island nations if my memory serves me right. So we have a DB of all crashes of IAF Mirage 2000?

This video is not one of the IAF belly landing in Mauritius Air show back in 2004. That was not a crash, it was belly landing and the aircraft returned to service after repair. But here is an interesting thing I saw about this, while the news reports said the belly landing was because the pilot didn't lower the LG (I don't know if that was a human error or he tried but LG got stuck, the reports I saw wont get into details), there was a crash just 10 days before this belly landing, in Gwalior, where one M2K was lost because it lost its LG midair (pilot had to bail out I suppose)...!!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Feb 2019 23:14

This is the Mauritius video of the IAF Mirage 2000 crash. The above video of the Mirage 2000 crash is not an Indian Air Force M2K.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 05 Feb 2019 23:22

I have been looking for IAF safety data. I dont see anything on IAF's site. In couple of old articles from 2005-2008 or so I see IAF officers mentioning crash rate reduecd from 0.68 to 0.38 or target crash rate is 0.2 and so on. Does anyone know what this number 0.2 is..? USAF uses rate per 100000 flying hour. But with the same matrix these numbers dont make sense to me. They are too low.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Feb 2019 23:25

Jagan has done an excellent job of compiling IAF accident data. But it is not 100% complete. Next to impossible to capture all accident data.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Database/Accidents/

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Feb 2019 23:31

SaiK wrote:Indian Army Rudra armed chopper makes emergency landing near Bengaluru, reports @NewsNationTV.

https://t.co/oRsYtt2OA8

https://twitter.com/rahulsinghx/status/ ... 5528225792 ----> Army's HAL-built ALH Rudra Mk IV chopper makes emergency landing outside Bengaluru due to possible hydraulic failure. Hearing it was on an acceptance sortie like the Mirage 2000 that crashed on Feb 1.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Feb 2019 23:46

Defence PSUs are taking a massive hit both on SM as well as DDM.

In some angrezi channels both naming and shaming is going on, INSAS has also come up.

while some small part of the criticism may be somewhat justified, most of it is unfair and unwarranted.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 06 Feb 2019 00:02

Social Media can be a bane in situations like this. Reading single line blurbs from every person that feels they need to have an opinion further clouds clear thought and patience to actually delve into details. Unfortunately the common public is easily swayed by this type of reporting. And then you have the people who feel the need to record every tragedy to get some hits on a channel. Where are we headed?
Damn I feel old...

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 06 Feb 2019 13:04

Rakesh wrote:Jagan has done an excellent job of compiling IAF accident data. But it is not 100% complete. Next to impossible to capture all accident data.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Database/Accidents/

Rakesh, Thanks. I know this database. I posted link to this couple of pages back myself in reply to IR's post. Unparalleled work. I don't think anyone but IAF has any better database than this. Sadly IAF doesn't publish any data on safety numbers. It looks like COI reports are classified except in some exceptional cases. Problem with just number of crashes is its not normalized with number of flight hours. That's the data I am looking for. Otherwise its difficult to compare with say USAF data for comparison.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 06 Feb 2019 14:55

chetak wrote:Defence PSUs are taking a massive hit both on SM as well as DDM.

In some angrezi channels both naming and shaming is going on, INSAS has also come up.

while some small part of the criticism may be somewhat justified, most of it is unfair and unwarranted.

This seems to be a coordinated campaign. The last time I observed something similar was in the immediate aftermath of Uri attack and before the surgical strike.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 07 Feb 2019 00:06

Or just opportunistic mudslinging on a coincidence.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 07 Feb 2019 03:17

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1093072762086871040 ---> Indian Air Force to send crashed Mirage 2000 black box to France to know the exact details of the mishap. Two IAF pilots including Squadron Leaders Siddhartha Negi and Samir Abrol lost their lives in the Mirage 2000 aircraft crash at the HAL Airport in Bengaluru on February 1.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 07 Feb 2019 03:44

VIDEO

From the twitter account of Colonel Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore (Retd), Minister of State (Independent Charge) for Ministry of Information and Broadcasting ---> https://twitter.com/Ra_THORe/status/1093174007870955521

In Squadron Leaders Samir Abrol and Siddharth Negi,we have lost two heroes.

Every soldier is prepared to lay down his life for us every day.

They deserve not only our eternal respect, but the best equipment.

Let's rise above political differences to ensure that they get the best of the best.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Feb 2019 09:51

This is what happened in the seconds before the Mirage 2000 crashed
https://theprint.in/defence/blow-by-blo ... ru/189899/

Footage from Mirage 2000 crash hints at a possible mechanical issue. IAF studying video obtained from Air Traffic Control in Bengaluru.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 11 Feb 2019 11:07

Rakesh wrote:This is what happened in the seconds before the Mirage 2000 crashed
https://theprint.in/defence/blow-by-blo ... ru/189899/

From it -

Sources said that as a result of the impact, the main undercarriage collapsed and sheared off due to the force of the crash-landing.

By then, the braking tail-chute, located on the underside of the tail, is also damaged but the aircraft continues to move forward on its two-wing drop tank and nose wheel.

Sir, what is the usual position of the drag chute in fighters, especially those with a single tail fin?

In the F-35 it is in a pod on the centreline on the top side, the position aided partly due to the twin tail fins. In the F-16 a plane similar to the mirage, it is above the exhaust nozzle.

Abhibhushan · Post by **Abhibhushan** » 11 Feb 2019 11:44

^^^
Normally the braking chute is housed below the rudder at the base of the fin or on the tail above the exhaust cone.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 11 Feb 2019 11:58

Thank you, Abhibhushan Sir.

In the Mirage 2000 it is under the nozzle?

A hard landing, with catastropic landing gear failure, leading to a belly landing, has a higher chance of damage to the drag chute assembly.

Is my understanding correct

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 11 Feb 2019 12:14

Manish_P wrote:In the Mirage 2000 it is under the nozzle

This to me is a serious design deficiency on part of Dassault - in case of undercarriage failure to deploy, one doesnt have brakes when one needs it most.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Feb 2019 12:20

even a tail strike due to a high AoA landing caused by some gust of wind could damage that area. first time I am seeing a design with it below the nozzle.

wheels catching any debris like metal or rubber on runway would damage that region as well - a metal panel fallen off a DC9, caused catatrophic damage to the air france concorde that crashed in paris.

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 12 Feb 2019 19:39

IAF MiG-27 jet crashes around 18.10 near Pokhran. Pilot ejects safely. Had taken off from Jaisalmer. (File pic
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1095318415726833664

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 12 Feb 2019 20:04

Another rust bucket crashed the pilot is safe thank god

Prithwiraj · Post by **Prithwiraj** » 12 Feb 2019 22:24

Jesus
this is a brutal 30 days...
depressing to hear these news ... even though pilot is safe --- ejection takes a lot of toll on your body which affects both personal and professional life

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 13 Feb 2019 00:00

Thankfully, the pilot is safe. Wishing him a full and fast recovery.

Really hate seeing this thread on top...

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Feb 2019 05:05

~~Supposedly this is the MiG-27 that crashed ---> Serial # TU 657~~.

Added Later: Sorry, this serial number crashed on 13 June 2016.

IAF bids adieu to MiG-27 ML 'Bahadur': This formidable fighter had some 'crash' issues
https://www.oneindia.com/india/iaf-bids ... 11156.html

On June 13, 2016, a MiG-27 (TU 657) on a training mission crashed in a residential area near Jodhpur Airforce Base in Rajasthan damaging two houses and injuring three civilians while the pilots ejected safely. The aircraft appears to be an Indian upgraded variant of MiG-27.l

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 13 Feb 2019 09:09

Pilot safe. That's good.

No casualties on ground also hopefully..

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 19 Feb 2019 12:24

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 13856?s=19

AeroIndia: Two Suryakirans collided mid air.

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 19 Feb 2019 12:41

https://www.news18.com/news/india/iafs- ... 41065.html

NEWS18 » INDIA
2 IAF Surya Kiran Hawks Crash During Rehearsals For Aero India Expo in Bengaluru
ccording to initial reports, two pilots managed to eject from the planes, but it is still unclear how many were on board