Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

hemant_sai · Post by **hemant_sai** » 02 Feb 2019 20:40

kit wrote:HAL will likely be broken in to to leaner separate entities

This is your wish or you know something is already on the way?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Feb 2019 09:57

This Week, IAF’s Dreams Of Meteor-Armed LCA Tejas Could Formally Die
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2019/02 ... y-die.html

But steadily receding hopes of this possibility over the last year will likely officially die this week when the missile’s maker MBDA meets with the LCA’s maker Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) to finally say no, the Meteor can’t be slung into an aircraft if the radar on that aircraft is of Israeli make.

It all started in May 2018, when it was revealed that the Indian Air Force, amidst production troubles with the LCA Tejas, had pushed the ambitious idea of arming the aircraft with the Meteor missile. Seven months later, in December 2018, HAL chose the Israeli Elta EL/M-2052 AESA radar for 83 LCA Tejas Mk.1A jets soon to be ordered by the Indian Air Force.

The LCA program has come up on Israeli-origin sensors. The EL/M-2052 radar was chosen in a competitive process. The same radar is also now on the new build Jaguar jets. The Indian Air Force has been well aware of the process of selection. At no point has there been any hurdle in the selection.”

DRDO, on its part, has argued against any roll-out of the Meteor beyond the Rafale fleet in Indian service, assuring the IAF that the Astra is in the pipeline and will meet all performance requirements.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 07 Feb 2019 18:03

The one way in which HAL can redeem itself is by delivering Tejas MK-1 SP-16 before the end of March 2019 & building 12-16 FOC standard MK-1 during the period 2019-20.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/109 ... 40896?s=19

HAL Tejas SP-13 is on the flight line & SP-14 has already flown. Completing check out for SP-15 &16 before the end of March should not be a big deal.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/109 ... 46624?s=19

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Feb 2019 18:12

i wonder which general wanted meteor on the tejas or is it a strawman to beat up HAL and tejas?

its a absurdly expensive missile whose range can best be exploited by a high flying superfast rocket like a Foxhound to try and snag unwary heavies @ XL range
even the 36 rafales will probably get a small number, to be kept under heavy guard in vayu bhavan and needing a Air marshal signoff to even fly, let alone fire

The cost of procuring Meteors is hard to come by. Limited figures came to light in Germany in 2013. The Luftwaffe will acquire 150 missiles at a cost of around $323 million, plus a further $175 million for integration.

John · Post by **John** » 07 Feb 2019 18:42

Singha wrote:i wonder which general wanted meteor on the tejas or is it a strawman to beat up HAL and tejas?

its a absurdly expensive missile whose range can best be exploited by a high flying superfast rocket like a Foxhound to try and snag unwary heavies @ XL range
even the 36 rafales will probably get a small number, to be kept under heavy guard in vayu bhavan and needing a Air marshal signoff to even fly, let alone fire

The cost of procuring Meteors is hard to come by. Limited figures came to light in Germany in 2013. The Luftwaffe will acquire 150 missiles at a cost of around $323 million, plus a further $175 million for integration.

That's actually not a bad price. We paid over million each for derby to equip Shar (around 1.4 mill adj for inflation) and UK latest deal was around 3 mill each for AMRAAM (incl training and support).

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 07 Feb 2019 19:30

livefist deleted a tweet yesterday saying AMCA might have condition for meteor integration post the tejas snob. I don't know how the meteor is so golden that everybody wants it. It is the broken military planners if at all this condition of armaments is added even before the plane flying is present. Until it is public, all of it is all hearsay.

Gurus, what is "flightline" in the above sjha tweets?

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 07 Feb 2019 21:18

Karan M wrote:This gentleman's issues re: bias can clearly be seen from this excerpt.

As the most experienced pilot on the Mirage 2000- 1st France batch-I was deputed to ADA for 8 months at ADA under Dr Kota Harinarayan, an offr I had trained on cockpit layout, emergencies and cockpit management on the MiG-21 bis in early 1977.

I worked along with Ex IAF Sqn Ldr Vishwesharaya and under Rear Adm Chatterji?. Along with a MiG-29 pilot, S/L Sebastian, we designed the cockpit interface, focussing on a 5 MFD glass cockpit. Our work was appreciated. Sadly, internal politics sabotaged the LCA. How could such a junior offr like Dr Kota be made Director ADA ahead of old timers like Dr KG Krishna? I saw great resistance here.

Saar aapney elitist poster ko nanga darpan show kar diya. More is needed.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 07 Feb 2019 21:42

The Meteor article reads pretty much like sour grapes lifafa article. What's the big deal with Meteor. We will have SFDR in 5 years. Integrate it in whichever aircraft you want. These missiles are very expensive, and I don't see a point of these missiles on the Mk1A.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 07 Feb 2019 21:53

Do we really need the meteor as the bread&butter bvr shot for the LCA? When Astra is good enough for the MKI? What am I missing here?

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 07 Feb 2019 22:01

tsarkar wrote:
JayS wrote:IMO, your argument about long sorties is tangential to the topic I feel
No sir, your feeling is not correct or substantiated by facts.

JayS wrote:I feel, as overwhelming majority of the bird strikes happen during TO and Landing
If you refer to accidents happened in 2018 posted by me earlier, Mirage 2000 happened at Pokhran while bombing and not while takeoff or landing

I can give you 10 times more COI report of cases due to engine failure. May I demand that all IAF aircraft have a spare engine to lug, so it can complete mission even when a wing fails. May I also demand that all Mig 21, Jaguar, Mirage and SU30 be withdrawn till windshield thickness increased to GUERENTEE birdhit proofness when diving low.

How many pilots died on Indian wars due to ground fire injuries? may I ask all aircraft have 3" titanium bathtub protection. (let's make fresh A10 tankbursters, to take on Bandar, F16 & J20).

The reasonings could go adnusum, without striking a balance between performance, price , mission type & risk.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 07 Feb 2019 22:23

Confirmation that the LCA Tejas Mk1 is being considered for the Malaysian LCA requirement.

from AW&ST

Malaysia’s plan to buy fighter aircraft has been delayed for so long that attention has now shifted to less costly requirements, which are more likely to receive funding approval. The Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) has issued requests for information (RFI) for light combat aircraft (LCA) and unmanned surveillance aircraft. Candidates for the surveillance requirement can all carry weapons.

The RFIs were issued in January, RMAF chief Gen. Affendi Buang tells Aviation Week. For the LCA requirement, Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) FA-50s, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. Tejas and Sino-Pakistani JF-17s are being considered. All are single-engine aircraft. The FA-50—available only in a two-seat version—is designed for light attack, while the Tejas and JF-17 are single-seat versions.

Hawk replacements could be stopgap substitutes for delayed fighters

Three candidates have been identified

As for the unmanned aircraft, RFIs were issued through the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex for the General Atomics MQ-9B Sea Guardian, Avic Wing Loong II and the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) Anka.

Affendi declined to reveal the numbers being sought for the LCA requirement. The RMAF’s future force plan, published in August 2018, specified a need for two squadrons with a total of 24 such aircraft. The air force also has a need for a squadron of lead-in-fighter trainers, which could affect the choice of the LCA. But no RFI has been issued for the trainers.

The LCAs are sought to replace the RMAF’s 13 BAE Systems Hawk Mk. 208 single-seat LCAs and four Hawk Mk. 108 two-seat trainers; the 17 aircraft are what remains from the 28 delivered beginning in 1994. With fighter acquisition stalled for budget reasons, buying LCAs would be a stopgap. The new trainers would replace seven Leonardo MB-339CMs; eight were delivered in 2009.

Industry sources say the RMAF wants up to nine unmanned aircraft. Defense Minister Mohamad Sabu has said the ministry will prioritize acquisition of maritime patrollers and unmanned aircraft for surveillance. But funding commitments will not be released until the ministry presents a defense white paper to parliament in July.

Over the past decade, the RMAF has sought to buy 18 fighters as replacements for MiG-29s and F-5s, all now in storage. It shortlisted the Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale, although there is no budget in place for them. The force plan specifies two fighter squadrons, but not the number of aircraft.

The Tejas is expected to appear at Malaysia’s Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition March 26-30. The show organizer also lists the MQ-9 Predator and Wing Loong II among aircraft to be displayed.

The need for trainers should bolster the FA-50’s chances because that light-attack aircraft is developed from an aircraft for advanced training—the T-50. The FA-50 is designed with a radar weapons-carrying capability. Another version of the T-50 family is the TA-50, which has an intermediate-equipment standard. The Tejas and JF-17 have two-seat versions, but even light fighters are rarely considered to be suitably equipped for training squadrons.

The T-50 family is well-represented in Southeast Asia. Thailand operates four TA-50s and has eight on order, while Indonesia has contracted KAI to upgrade its 15 TA-50s with radars and to supply one more aircraft to replace one lost to attrition. The Philippines is the only Southeast Asian operator of the FA-50; the 12 that were ordered in 2014 were delivered in 2015-17. Myanmar, the only export user of the JF-17, currently operates six of the type.

The Tejas and FA-50 are equipped with Israeli avionics and radars, which would probably be replaced for any order by Malaysia, a predominately Muslim country that has no diplomatic relations with the Jewish state.

The requirement for surveillance drones appeared in 2014 but has not progressed as far as an RFI until now. The Anka had seemed to be the likely candidate because TAI agreed with Deftech, a Malaysian defense company, to jointly offer it to the RMAF. However, the new government elected in May 2018 did not accept the Anka offer, preferring an open competition—hence the RFI to three manufacturers.

General Atomics has proposed the unarmed Predator XP to Malaysia over the past four years, as the country’s need for surveillance of territorial waters grew due to border disputes and threats of terrorism. Thanks to a change in U.S. export rules, the company can now offer an armed UAV, the Sea Guardian. Both the Anka and Wing Loong II could be armed with missiles and bombs.

Like the fighters, a requirement for maritime patrollers is on hold; the white paper may set out concrete plans for it. A defense ministry official says he is not confident the government will fund all programs.

—With Bradley Perrett in Beijing

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 07 Feb 2019 22:37

^^ Ah, given the Israeli hate by malay. I would see the blunder taking a lead.

Countries whose head of state come to India and try teaching us secularism, might show it's true colours by showing the bias to the blunder and eventually stating cost arbitrage.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 07 Feb 2019 22:52

Prasad wrote:Do we really need the meteor as the bread&butter bvr shot for the LCA? When Astra is good enough for the MKI? What am I missing here?

Meteor cannot be the bread and butter BVR for any aircraft.

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 07 Feb 2019 23:42

I am sure you must have seen PM's speech in LS today. He again spent good amount of time on Tejas and reiterated that order for 83 MK1A is approved. Yes, babus and soldiers are being babus and soldiers with canopy etc. but MK1 is done and dusted. And as dismissal of some respected heads of respected institutions has shown over last few months, babus and soldiers beware.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 08 Feb 2019 01:31

gaurav.p wrote:^^ Ah, given the Israeli hate by malay. I would see the blunder taking a lead.

Countries whose head of state come to India and try teaching us secularism, might show it's true colours by showing the bias to the blunder and eventually stating cost arbitrage.

They wouldn't want their MKMs and Mig-29s to become un-maintainable.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 08 Feb 2019 01:54

Indranil wrote:The Meteor article reads pretty much like sour grapes lifafa article. What's the big deal with Meteor. We will have SFDR in 5 years. Integrate it in whichever aircraft you want. These missiles are very expensive, and I don't see a point of these missiles on the Mk1A.

Agree 100% on that. There are other missile integration plans in work that are higher priority- Astra Mk1 and ASRAAM to replace the R-73 and in place of the Python V (not certain as yet on that).

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 08 Feb 2019 01:55

gaurav.p wrote:^^ Ah, given the Israeli hate by malay. I would see the blunder taking a lead.

Countries whose head of state come to India and try teaching us secularism, might show it's true colours by showing the bias to the blunder and eventually stating cost arbitrage.

No, I would think the FA-50 is in the lead. RD-93 engine on the JF-17 will not excite the Malaysians, given their headaches with the RD-33 on their MiG-29s. Whereas, being F-404 equipped, both the Tejas and FA-50 have that advantage, given that the Malaysians operate vanilla Hornet twin seaters and have had a very experience with those, versus the Russian types they've operated.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 08 Feb 2019 01:55

Rishi_Tri wrote:I am sure you must have seen PM's speech in LS today. He again spent good amount of time on Tejas and reiterated that order for 83 MK1A is approved. Yes, babus and soldiers are being babus and soldiers with canopy etc. but MK1 is done and dusted. And as dismissal of some respected heads of respected institutions has shown over last few months, babus and soldiers beware.

Any link to that speech in case it was posted somewhere?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 08 Feb 2019 02:13

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 08 Feb 2019 02:21

^^ The tejas reference is from ~42:00->43:00. He didn't say the deal is done. He just said that the DAC gave approval to buy 83 mk1a. They haven't been ordered YET.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 08 Feb 2019 03:18

Can someone explain what happens after DAC Approval to commencement of the order? What is the hold up?

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 08 Feb 2019 04:03

gaurav.p wrote:^^ The tejas reference is from ~42:00->43:00. He didn't say the deal is done. He just said that the DAC gave approval to buy 83 mk1a. They haven't been ordered YET.

Don't want to nitpick but 'kharidne ki swikriti' literally translates into 'approval to buy' and there was no mention of 'DAC', it was 'We'.

Yes I know, in babudom and soldierdom 'approval to buy' may have Fifty Shades of Grey but that is till the time one of babus, soldiers in question is asked to get down from lofty pedestal. Given his attention to detail and his tracking Tejas program continuously and declaring publicly - Independence Day speech, during elections recently and now in parliament, - he asks and is told whenever every SP flies.

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 08 Feb 2019 04:17

Rishi_Tri wrote:
Don't want to nitpick but 'kharidne ki swikriti' literally translates into 'approval to buy' and there was no mention of 'DAC', it was 'We'.

Yes got confused with DAC and cabinet/govt. Approval and sanction are different I think. No doubt mk1a will come but until ministry clears things, the heavy heart remains.

Yes I know, in babudom and soldierdom 'approval to buy' may have Fifty Shades of Grey but that is till the time one of babus, soldiers in question is asked to get down from lofty pedestal. Given his attention to detail and his tracking Tejas program continuously and declaring publicly - Independence Day speech, during elections recently and now in parliament, - he asks and is told whenever every SP flies.

Sir I think the babus are helpless, when money is not there to sanction IMO. Good to see the push direct from PM but still there are many holes that need to be plugged sonner or later. Hoping to hear some good news from aeroindia'19.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 08 Feb 2019 19:28

IIRC, Tsarkar once hinted at new line at free land near HAL Academy. Work going on at a spot bit farther from the Academy but basically part of same land. That time nothing was happening. Now looks like work in full swing. Some new buildings are coming up which look aweful lot like hangers. Gmap is updated recently but still lagging, just look across the road from where the original line is.

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 08 Feb 2019 21:26

What he probable meant was the 83 will be ordered once the discussion between MOD, IAF and HAL
over price gets done with.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 08 Feb 2019 21:37

In the hustle-bustle of events, we deeply apologize

for reporting this late about the First production flight of the 13th series produced Tejas (LA-5013) on 30th Jan 2019. The Flying Daggers will grow in strength to the full squadron number soon.

https://www.facebook.com/10332915642820 ... 900114780/

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 08 Feb 2019 21:45

Ashish Saar, aap ke muh mein ghee shakhar!

Page 1 updated. Two more SPs to go and No 45 will be a full strength squadron. Yes!!!

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 08 Feb 2019 21:53

wow! celebrations should be in order. Imagine this is as close to an indian sqdn it gets for now. It is going to go up only.

I am still eagerly waiting for 16 per year day
Year-Over-Year Tejas Production
....
• 2019: Eight [Projected]
• 2020: Sixteen [Vision]

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 08 Feb 2019 23:40

Badhaaiya ! SP-13 had its first flight on January 30, 2019 itself.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 09 Feb 2019 06:00

FlightGlobal article "Tejas regains its lustre"

While they do put some of the typical old masala (grudingly getting support from IAF since no other fall-back options..boo hoo no imports happening onlee) it has some interesting details. Of course, with Aero India around the corner, we should hopefully get much more juicy details..I for one, cannot wait to see the new design of the Tejas Mk2 that has been finalised. See the date that none other than Cmde (retd.) CD Balaji gives for the Tejas Mk2 - latter half of 2020 ! that's next year ! Either that or the journo got confused between the Mk1A and Mk2..Also mentions Python V, so maybe the integration hasn't been completely discarded. We should know better in a few days' time at AI-'19.

Anyway, read the article in full on the website. I've posted the most relevant parts

Analysis- Tejas regaining its lustre

New Delhi has approved the procurement of 73 Tejas Mk1As and 10 Tejas Mk1 trainers (including two simulators and infrastructure) worth $7 billion. However, a formal order is yet to be placed. Apart from this, an initial batch of 15 light combat helicopters worth approximately $400 million will be manufactured for the air force and the army, with 10 for the former and five for the latter. The Indo-Russian Helicopter joint venture is to undertake the manufacture of 65 Kamov Ka-226Ts for the air force and 135 for the army in a deal valued at just over $3 billion. HAL did not respond to a request for an interview with its chairman, R Madhavan, for this story.

RENEWED IMPETUS

The Tejas programme is now receiving grudging air force support as the service realises that placing orders for the indigenous fighter will be easier than importing costly fighter aircraft. The air force version of the LCA (Tejas means radiance in Sanskrit) has been flayed for time overruns but has benefited from delays in other air force fighter acquisition/upgrade programmes that have left a hard-pressed service with no choice but to back the programme.

It is also very likely that the originally envisioned requirement for the 200 Tejas fighters and 20 trainers needed to form 11 squadrons will be met by Tejas Mk1, Mk1A and Mk2 variants.

HAL will finally conclude a March 2006 order for 20 initial operational clearance-standard Tejas fighters this year. Work on the first final operational clearance (FOC)-standard Tejas, as part of a December 2010 order for 20 aircraft, is now under way; delivery is planned by year-end. These orders comprise 32 fighters with eight two-seat trainers. All FOC-standard aircraft are slated for delivery by 2023.

Skewing the mix is the fact that the two-seat Tejas trainer has yet to receive FOC clearance – so these aircraft will only be delivered post-2020, impacting the air force's ability to generate the required number of pilots to be trained on the type.

Commodore CD Balaji, who retired in March 2017 as programme director (combat aircraft) and director of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), tells FlightGlobal that he is confident that the increased production rate for the Tejas Mk1A will be achieved, as structural changes have been kept to a minimum compared with the Mk1 in FOC standard. HAL is working to increase the Tejas production rate from eight to 16 aircraft per year, with an investment of approximately $200 million split across HAL (50%), the air force (25%) and the navy (25%).

He also confirms that the indigenously developed Kaveri turbofan will not see service on the Tejas and all Mk1 and Mk1As will be fitted with GE F404-IN20 engines. The more powerful GE F414 engines that will power the Mk2 version are already in country. Hot refuelling capability (refuelling an aircraft while the engine is still running) already demonstrated on a Tejas prototype is likely to be incorporated on Tejas Mk1As. In a combat situation, this capability reduces refuelling time by as much as 30% and doubles the sortie generation rate.

FlightGlobal understands that the Tejas Mk2, which, for all intents and purposes can be considered as an all-new aircraft (or at least a substantially redesigned one) in the 16-17t weight class, will be ready to fly in the latter half of 2020. Development of the Tejas Mk2 and navy LCA Mk2 simultaneously will also be challenging as both aircraft are expected to have minimal commonality, because aircraft configuration has been undertaken separately.

GROWING CAPABILITY

"The Tejas Mk1A will deliver an increase in capability of approximately 25% over the Mk1 variant due to its AESA radar, mid-air refuelling capability, pod-mounted jammer, enhanced weapons and various other improvements," Balaji says. "Any existing air-to-air missile can be fitted on Tejas provided we receive access to the interface codes and hence the Tejas is future-ready in this aspect." This is, he stresses, is an important attribute for the type.

The Tejas has been cleared to carry Russian R-73 close combat missiles (CCMs), and Israeli I-Derby beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles (BVRAAMs). The Python 5 CCM and an indigenously developed Astra BVRAAM are also planned for integration.

In an email response to FlightGlobal, an MBDA spokesperson confirms that the advanced short-range air-to-air missile (ASRAAM) and Meteor BVRAAM have been offered for the Tejas: "We have offered ASRAAM as an armament for the Tejas fighter aircraft. ASRAAM is already in the Indian air force's portfolio after it was chosen after competitive evaluation for the New Generation Close Combat Missile programme for the upgraded Jaguar."

The Meteor offer is an interesting one. Tejas Mk1s are fitted with Elta’s EL/M-2032 mechanically scanned radar (with an Indian antenna platform, antenna and some sub-systems), while the Tejas Mk1A will receive the EL/M-2052 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. Ground trials are already under way, with flight trials slated to commence shortly.

"MBDA would also like to offer Meteor for the Tejas platform, which would require the missile and aircraft radar to be closely integrated. The six Meteor partner nations have strongly advised that they will only approve the integration of Meteor with certain radars," the company spokesperson adds. "One option could be integration with an Indian radar, and this is something that MDBA is willing to study, should the relevant radar parameters be made available."

(So MBDA is the one that offered the ASRAAM and wants to offer the Meteor but also dictate the radar? Sorry boss, your loss. And we should share the relevant radar parameters of the Uttam AESA radar, that would then presumably be shared with the 6 Meteor partner nations)

The air force, however, is satisfied with the performance of the Elta EL/M-2032 radar on the Tejas Mk1, "The aircraft's radar, which is currently in 45 sqn, is working fine. There is absolutely no problem with those radars," the vice chief of the air staff reported in a recently released parliamentary report on the Tejas programme. The radar is able to pick up an Su-30MKI at a range of 33nm (60km) and an upgraded quartz radome supplied by Cobham UK has increased this detection range to 40nm.

(Taken from the PAC report. the Vice Air Chief was most likely offering a glimpse into the improved range, without actually specifying what range it can pick up a Su-30MKI, but whoever took that down, just put it in as is)

AMCA MOVES AHEAD

The advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA) programme is also moving ahead, with a feasibility study having been completed. On the suggestion of the air force, it has been decided to proceed with a technology demonstration phase before launching full-scale engineering development.

The aircraft has been described as having a twin-fin, twin-engined configuration with an air flow designed to reduce its radar cross section. It has also been ambitiously proposed that the entire external surface of the aircraft will be manufactured using carbon fibre composites. The Kaveri programme is now being revived with assistance from Safran to ready this engine for the AMCA.

"We are in discussions with the Indian customer about weapons options for the AMCA. Several of our systems that are already in the [Indian air force’s] inventory could offer excellent combat performance for the AMCA," the MBDA spokesperson confirms.

In February last year, the ADA called for vendors interested in taking up the manufacture of a next-generation technology demonstrator. The agency has asked for two prototype aircraft to be built at a final assembly and check-out facility to be located at the air force's Sulur air base, near the southern Indian city of Coimbatore. From the beginning of interaction between ADA and the vendor, it is proposed that the roll-out of the first fully equipped next-generation technology demonstrator will take place in three and a half years.
..

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Feb 2019 09:50

>>FlightGlobal understands that the Tejas Mk2, which, for all intents and purposes can be considered as an all-new aircraft
>>(or at least a substantially redesigned one) in the 16-17t weight class, will be ready to fly in the latter half of 2020

I think he meant 2020s

we need a couple of TDs flying. being 1.5t bigger, its like F16C vs F16E a totally new a/c sharing some "looks", software, avionics and the family name

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Feb 2019 09:35

Vayushakti2019: The HAL built Light Combat Aircraft ‘Tejas’, is a light weight multirole fighter developed indigenously. It integrates technologies such as relaxed static stability, fly-by-wire flight control system, advanced avionics, multi-mode radar & modern weapons.

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1094801776308563975

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 11 Feb 2019 09:45

They avoided giving numbers for max range or payload which is specified for other IAF jets. I wonder why.

Hope we get some good videos.

hemant_sai · Post by **hemant_sai** » 11 Feb 2019 11:47

Singha wrote:>>FlightGlobal understands that the Tejas Mk2, which, for all intents and purposes can be considered as an all-new aircraft
>>(or at least a substantially redesigned one) in the 16-17t weight class, will be ready to fly in the latter half of 2020

I think he meant 2020s

we need a couple of TDs flying. being 1.5t bigger, its like F16C vs F16E a totally new a/c sharing some "looks", software, avionics and the family name

Well in latter half of 2020's (2025-2027) series production of MK2 is expected to start. Still expecting first flight of MK2 in 2020 is quite optimistic. Considering priorities of HAL, first flight of MK2 is less likely to happen before 2022.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 11 Feb 2019 13:26

Haridas wrote:I also demand that all Mig 21, Jaguar, Mirage and SU30 be withdrawn till windshield thickness increased

If your logic of writing this post is trying to do an equal=equal with IAF requirements, then its way off the mark. IAF has disconnected this requirement from FOC criteria but has asked for the development & testing to be carried out concurrently. Tejas is not withdrawn nor its production stopped becuase of this requirement.

Haridas wrote:May I demand that all IAF aircraft have a spare engine to lug, so it can complete mission

IAF has not asked ADA/HAL for a spare canopy to lug, so again, your attempt to create an equal=equal is way off the mark.

Haridas wrote:I can give you 10 times more COI report of cases due to engine failure.

Good you brought this topic up.

In the area of aero engines, in all RFP's the IAF gives extra scoring for FADEC & BITE equipped engines.

The Tejas has GE-404IN20 with FADEC & BITE

The Rafale M88 has FADEC & BITE.

India specifically asked for Digital Electronic Control & BITE for our version of AL-31F engine - the AL-31FP

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-sys ... es/al-31f/

Modernization of the engine included the installation of a FADEC-type digital control system, which provides improved acceleration capability and efficiency (an analog hydro-mechanical system was used previously).

As well as for MiG-29K/KUB/UPG engines

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-sys ... s/rd-33mk/

For a family of the MiG-35, MiG-29M/M2 multifunctional frontline fighters and MiG-29K/KUB shipborne aircraft, a new version, the RD-33MK, is available which differs from the baseline RD-33 in increased thrust and longer assigned service life, an additional contingency takeoff power setting, and improved corrosion protection of parts and components.

The new versions of the RD-33 engines are equipped with a digital automatic control and monitoring system, as well as a power unit for aircraft accessories with dual-redundant main accessories.

For engine ground service, an automated diagnostic system (based on a laptop PC) is available that makes it possible to quickly evaluate the technical condition of the engines.

For Jaguar engine replacement, the Honeywell engine too has FADEC & BITE

https://aerospace.honeywell.com/en/prod ... fan-engine

Combining the advanced dual full authority digital engine control (FADEC) system, integrated engine health monitoring system (EMS) and modular construction of the renowned F124, with the extra thrust of an afterburner module, the F125 delivers a whole new level of performance, while retaining the durability and reliability required by today’s armed forces.

The MiG-27 was rapidly decommissioned because of its engine unreliability issues. An engine upgrade was sought via Al-31F but didnt work out.

The MiG-21 Type 77 & Type 96 have been decommissioned as well. Only Type 75 and Bison variants serve and they too are on their way out.

As these examples show, IAF takes engine malfunction very seriously and is incorporating latest technology via new acquisitions (F-404, M88, Al-31FP) or upgrades (RD-33MK, F-125).

And as you can see, the sheer quantum of work done by IAF and OEMs in enhancing engine safety makes canopy strengthening an exercise of relatively lesser quantum.

BTW it is precisely this shirking attitude shown by some quarters - like the person leaking this news to media without revealing the overall context - that makes IAF have a negative opinion about the developers/manufacturers.

Though to be fair, both the developers and manufacturer have taken it up in real earnest.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 11 Feb 2019 18:57

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1094939913697533952

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 11 Feb 2019 22:32

JayS wrote:They avoided giving numbers for max range or payload which is specified for other IAF jets. I wonder why.

Above 2000 kms.

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 11 Feb 2019 23:06

Indranil wrote: Above 2000 kms.

Sir the bangalore -> jodhpur reference ~1500km. But 2000+ is just a bonus.

Are these numbers are not being released due to final** FOC?
Hope to see similar numbers being released at LIMA / Aeroindia.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 11 Feb 2019 23:42

what a proud moment sirjee, look at the 27's numbers. It is also heartening to see that the force itself is advertising that it is a multi/swing role that would be demonstrated. How i wish we had more numbers of the MK1. Starting 2007 beyond technical challenges it was more of a planned, calclulated screw up by UPA resulting in our brave motivated young air warriors fighting in rust buckets

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Feb 2019 01:05

abhik wrote:I'll believe MK2 is real when I see it, till then it is just a paper plane (like it has been for the past 10+ years).

You are an BRF Oldie. Why this cynicism that will shape newer members?