Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

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Indranil
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Indranil »

Very informative. Thank you very much. As I said before, this had completely flew under my radar.
Could not open this. Was prompted for username and password.
prasannasimha wrote:Dr Somnath in one interview also referred to it.
I know the talk you are referring to here, but he used stock image of a NASA test engine. So, I did not take it seriously.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by hnair »

Recent inauguration of HSFC at ISRO HQ

Image

Note - size of capsule from mock-up
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by prasannasimha »

Neela wrote:Prasanna Sir, the DLR paper refers to coking limit as one of the thermodynamic properties. Is this property related to soot formation?
One point.
Soot sharply negates resuability
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Amber G. »

For those who are interested in astronomy etc.. this may be of interest:
Last date to enroll for this free introductory course on Astronomy & Astrophysics on @SWAYAMMHRD is 31 Jan.
https://swayam.gov.in/courses/5250-astr ... UtP8Qf3hGE
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by prasannasimha »

Regarding the 10 Ton Metholox engine
What configurations could it be used.
Obviously as the final stage is one obvious use but since reusability is a primary driver what other configs could be done ?
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by prasannasimha »

Could this be it (C10)
Image
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by sanjaykumar »

Image


Is this the crew module?
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Indranil »

Prasanna ji, that, or a drop in replacement for the CE7.5 on the Mk2.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by gaurav.p »

Good overview webinar done part of Aeroindia on

"Indian Space Program & Future Technologies needed for Ground Aerospace Activities"

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by jaysimha »

VISUALISATION OF EARTH OBSERVATION DATA AND ARCHIVAL SYSTEM
https://vedas.sac.gov.in/vedas/
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by jaysimha »

https://itca.org.in/satellite.html

Students’ Satellite Mission 2022
https://itca.org.in/downloads/Report.pdf

India-Israel Initiatives on Satellite Technology and Space Systems
https://itca.org.in/downloads/Competenc ... llites.pdf
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Indranil »

gaurav.p wrote:Good overview webinar done part of Aeroindia on

"Indian Space Program & Future Technologies needed for Ground Aerospace Activities"

Mention of metholox engine again. Plan to put RLV over the 1st and 2nd stage of GSLV. Schmatic shows the RLV to have two engines (possibly 2x10T metholox?).
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Snehashis »

ISRO launches #GSAT31 onboard #Ariane5 launch vehicle #VA247 from French Guiana. - https://twitter.com/airnewsalerts/statu ... 8235699201

Here is the launch video. Lift-off then simulation from 13 mins onward.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by prasannasimha »

Plan it seems is flyback of the GSLV Mk2 furst and second stage with vertical landing and the top stage is a winged body descent.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by jaysimha »

Program of
International Conference on Small Satellites (ICSS-2019)
organized by Society for Small Satellite Systems
along with Sensors Research Society at Research Centre Imarat,
Hyderabad during 7th – 9th Feb 2019.
https://www.icss2019.in/pgschedule/ICSS ... 2.2019.pdf
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by prasannasimha »

Wonder why they used Ariane instead of GSLV for GSAT 31
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Singha »

its emergency launch due to fading satellite and lack of ready GSLV. sat is not big just 2.4t per a article.
there is one more emergency launch later.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by prasannasimha »

First orbit raising maneuver succesful
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Indranil »

Prasanna ji, I found another paper on the metholox engine, same authors. It looks like that they are modifying the CUS engine. May be this is o shorten the time to get to a first prototype engine. But, I don't see why one would replace LH2+LOX with LCH4+LOX.

Also, in my heart of hearts, I hope for short life of SSLV. I would love to see a completely reusable light two stage launcher. A CUS stage over the L40 stage will do it. The lower stage can come from the ADMIRE project and the CUS stage can be packaged in RLV. Or both stages could be winged.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by PratikDas »

Indranil wrote:Prasanna ji, I found another paper on the metholox engine, same authors. It looks like that they are modifying the CUS engine. May be this is o shorten the time to get to a first prototype engine. But, I don't see why one would replace LH2+LOX with LCH4+LOX.

Also, in my heart of hearts, I hope for short life of SSLV. I would love to see a completely reusable light two stage launcher. A CUS stage over the L40 stage will do it. The lower stage can come from the ADMIRE project and the CUS stage can be packaged in RLV. Or both stages could be winged.
This paper is very interesting: http://www.rocket-propulsion.info/resources/articles/LPRE.pdf
For today's launch vehicles the costs for the tanked propellants are of secondary importance compared to the costs of preparing the launch vehicle structure and systems for launch and launch operations. In case drastic reduction of the latter costs become available either for low-cost expendable vehicles or reusable vehicles, the influence of the propellant costs will increase. Some propellant costs are given in [4]. Hydrogen is approximately 15 times more expensive than 98% H2O2, while aviation kerosene costs only one quarter of H2O2. Liquid oxygen is even cheaper.

Kerosene will get expensive when the world-wide oil resources will cease, current estimations give a time period of approx. 30-40 years. However, methane as liquefied natural gas is said to be available for another 100-120 years. The costs for methane are said to be three times less than kerosene [10].
So, from the perspective of cost in the year 2002:

H2 = 15 x H2O2 (98%) = 60 x Kerosene = 180 x Methane
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Indranil »

ISP of metholox engine is about 380. ISP of CUS is around 450. And every ounce weight saved in the upper stage is worth its weight in gold.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by abhik »

What about engine weight (and cost) - most LH2/LOX engines have significantly lower thrust to weigh ratio.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Singha »

^^ then how come Ariane5 uses LH2/LOX mix for all its engines? someone was saying thats the exilir of life and the most tfta combo of fuel.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by PratikDas »

Singha wrote:^^ then how come Ariane5 uses LH2/LOX mix for all its engines? someone was saying thats the exilir of life and the most tfta combo of fuel.
It's pretty good :)

Image

Source:http://www.rocket-propulsion.info/resources/articles/LPRE.pdf
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by abhik »

Singha wrote:^^ then how come Ariane5 uses LH2/LOX mix for all its engines? someone was saying thats the exilir of life and the most tfta combo of fuel.
It is the most TFTF of the commonly used fuels in theory (refer the chart in above post) - but practical problems like ~1/10th the density of other fuels, very low temperatures etc means that most rockets don't actually use it.
Also Ariane 5 was TFTA in the only in the 2000's, by now it has been mostly been muscled out of the market by space x.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by prasannasimha »

With lower stages thrust, energy density becomes a big issue and cost is also an issue. Its like going for a Ferrari for shopping at your Kirana store - very efficient engine but not cost effective for all uses.The Maruthi 800 could still do. Handling cryogens etc add significantly to the cost. So SRB's are not totally going away unless reuse with controlled descent and fly back is planned. Sea wet landing of shuttle SRB's introduced a host of new problems for refurbishment
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by jaysimha »

This may not be the first time being posted here ( MBD-if-RP)

NASA-ISRO SAR Mission (NISAR)
A dedicated U.S. and Indian InSAR mission, in partnership with ISRO, optimized for studying hazards and global environmental change.


https://nisar.jpl.nasa.gov/
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Ashokk »

Isro gives IAF task to train 10 astronauts for Gaganyaan
On the number of crew, Sivan said, “We want IAF to train 10 candidates for the Gaganyaan mission. Out of them, we will pick final three for the maiden space journey.” On crew training abroad, the chairman said they have two-three countries like Russia and France in mind and but “no final call has been taken yet”.
To avoid the risk of endangering human lives, Isro will conduct two unmannned missions before the final mission and will carry humanoids (a robot resembling a human being). “The first unmanned test-flight will be in December 2020. The second unmanned test will be conducted in July 2021 and finally the human space flight will be launched in December 2021,” Sivan earlier told TOI.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Ashokk »

India Turns to Russian Satellite Navigation Technology to Address Traffic Woes
As per the russian version of the article the On-Board Units (OBUs) will be a combined GLONASS/IRNSS unit which will be developed for this project.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by disha »

^Welcome to the world of marketing.

No, India is not using Russian Sat Nav Tech.

Yes, NHAI seems to have contracted a Russian company which has a platform that integrates sat nav with vehicle toll booth collection and vehicle weight management and automation therein. That company has OBUs which use Glonass and will be using IRNSS.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by disha »

Let me tell story of Pedro. It is very relevant here.

Pedro was a famed archer. Trees around all his villages were found with Pedro's arrows hitting the bull mark. Never a miss, always a perfect bull mark.

When asked how he achieved such a perfect hit, his answer was simple. He would shoot the arrow first and then paint the target around it.

---

The need for a Kerolox engine is like Pedro's archery. The reasons for its needs came after Kerolox was further developed and used in Apollo. Antecedents of all space launch systems (except ISRO's) lie in military applications (read missiles) and the entire infrastructure (nozzle, engines, ground operations, launch sequences, staging etc) created for missiles was reused for space applications (thanks to Sputnik). That is hardware. "software" include the trained mathematicians, physicists, chemists and operators who know and understand Kerolox were readily available and thus reduced "risk" in project schedules.

For example, figuring out cooling the nozzle and injecting the fuel itself took several years, various iterations on different missiles before coming together as F1 in Saturn. F1 is the most powerful single nozzle liquid engine ever flown. Why not reuse that knowhow (and knowwhy)?

It was the silverstein committee which brokered the need for newer kind of upper stages using then available boosters (kerolox based) that resulted in the LOX-LH2 rocket engines.

One of the famous notings by the committee ->
Developing entirely new hydrogen-burning stages for the entire "stack" would increase the risk that a failure of any one of the components could disrupt the entire program. But as the Committee members noted: "If these propellants are to be accepted for the difficult top-stage applications, there seems to be no valid engineering reasons for not accepting the use of high-energy propellants for the less difficult application to intermediate stages."
(Thus the J2)

Hence discussions around LOX/LH2 not suitable for lower stages is IMO polemical and in fact a lazy exercise. If it was so difficult or useless for lower stages, then it would not be used for Arianne.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Indranil »

Nice one, Disha.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by krishGo »

prasannasimha wrote:Wonder why they used Ariane instead of GSLV for GSAT 31
Short answer, capacity limits. Currently ISRO can fly a maximum of 2 Mk3's every year. One of those flights this year will be of the Chandrayaan-2, a very important mission. Why limitations? Producing enough cryogenic engines & stages is what is constraining on the number of GSLVs and Mk3s that can be assembled and flown.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by jaysimha »

1ST NATIONAL CONFERENCE ON SPACE AND ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCE (NCSAS-2019)
http://www.sanjayghodawatuniversity.ac. ... s2019.html
10 & 11 May, 2019 Sanjay Ghodawat University Kolhapur
in collaboration with
Indian Institute of Tropical Meteorology (IITM), Pune
Indian Institute of Geomagnetism (IIG), Mumbai
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Vips »

On its maiden flight, India's SSLV will carry two defence satellites.

The Indian space agency will fly two small defence satellites in July/August on its new rocket --now known as Small Satellite Launch Vehicle (SSLV) - said a top official of Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).

"We are planning to fly two defence satellites, each weighing about 120 kg in our new rocket SSLV this July or August. The rocket design recently underwent a detailed integrated technical review," K. Sivan, ISRO Chairman, told IANS on Wednesday.

He said the total weight of the payload that will be carried by the SSLV on its maiden flight will be about 500 kg. While the two satellites would weight about 120 kg each, there will be adaptors and others that would weigh about 300 kg.

The total weight of the rocket will be 110 tonne, Sivan said.

Queried about the need for a second commercial arm - first one is Antrix Corporation - Sivan said: "We want to give a big push for production of SSLV. We expect the demand for SSLV to be about two/three rockets per month. We also want to increase the production of Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV)."

Sivan said the increase in production is sought to be achieved partnering with the private sector. He said Antrix Corporation is mainly into transponder leasing and other activities.

On Tuesday, the Union Cabinet chaired by Prime Minister Narendra Modi gave its approval for setting up of a new company under the Department of Space (DoS), to commercially exploit the research and development work carried out by ISRO and its constituent units. The following areas/avenues provide opportunities for commercial exploitation of ISRO programmes:

Small satellite technology transfer to industry, wherein the new company shall take licence from DoS/ISRO and sub-license to industries; manufacture of small satellite launch vehicle (SSLV) in collaboration with the private sector.

Besides, productionisation of PSLV through industry; productionisation and marketing of space-based products and services, including launch and applications; transfer of technology developed by ISRO Centres and constituent units of DoS. Also marketing of some spin-off technologies and products, both in India and abroad; and any other subject which Government of India deems fit.

When asked about the technologies that the ISRO can transfer, Sivan said: "We have developed technologies in materials, chemicals and others. These can be transferred so that people can benefit." Sivan said the capital for the proposed company will not be large and its name is yet to be finalised.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Kakarat »

https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 5864955904
Long Exposure streak shot of PSLV C-44 in flight taken from Pulicat bird sanctuary ~10km from the Launch Pad
Sorry for the long delay, I had submitted it for the photo contest by Aeroindia. Thanks to all the suggestions I could get this
Image
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Ashokk »

First in India's space history, Isro’s PSLV-C45 to release payloads in 3 orbits
NEW DELHI: For the first time in the country’s space history, Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) is going to launch a PSLV mission in March where it will release payloads in three different orbits.

Talking to TOI, Isro chairman K Sivan said, “Isro will launch PSLV C45 mission in the last week of March. Soon after takeoff from Sriharikota, the rocket will first launch an electronic intelligence satellite Emisat of DRDO at an orbit of 763 km. Soon after launching the DRDO payload, PS-4 stage (last stage of rocket) will make two orbital manoeuvres (will be restarted twice) to reach an orbit of 504 km where it will release 28 foreign satellites. Thereafter, the PS-4 will again make two orbital manoeuvres to reach the 485 km orbit where it will be released and double up as an experimental platform for space experiments.”

Sivan said, “PSLV C45 will be a totally new rocket. It will have four strap-ons this time. Unlike the previous mission on January 24 when the last stage of the rocket used batteries to remain active, this time we are going to use solar panels so as to use solar energy to keep it active for at least six months.”

On January 24, PSLV C44 rocket had carried a student satellite ‘Kalamsat’ that was attached to PS-4, which students are nowadays using for doing space experiments like microgravity test for free. The Isro chief said this time “we will carry a small payload of Kerala-based Indian Institute of Space Science and Technology (IIST), Asia’s first space university. The payload weighing not more than 5-10 kg will remain attached to PS-4 stage.

He said, “As promised, we will keep making improvements in the PS-4 stage with every launch of the new PSLV rocket. ‘Active’ PS-4 stage will help students and young scientists make the most of this “usually dead stage” for performing experiments in space for free”.

The chairman said Isro will launch the Chandrayaan-2 mission in April-end. On reviewing the preparations for the second lunar mission, he said there will be a “national review meet of eminent experts on March 6. A day before this meet, Isro will conduct a national review meet on Gaganyaan or human spaceflight project on March 5”.

On the first test flight of the mini-PSLV or small satellite launch vehicle, Sivan said the first experiment will take place in July-August when the SSLV will carry two small defence satellites of 120 kg each.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Vamsi_V »

Glad to see Isro is launching many strategic military satellites now a days
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by JTull »

Time for GoI to make IRNSS mandatory for overflying Indian airspace. Given the virtual no-fly zone across our western border, this will be quickly accepted.
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