Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 12 Feb 2019 20:15

ArjunPandit wrote:
Supratik wrote:Good. It is going to be "Vande Bharat" express "across the country".

and for some people saying the name of the train is against their beliefs!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Feb 2019 18:45

train18 was flagged off by PM today

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 16 Feb 2019 12:40

Train 18 had some problem on the return journey....

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1096613197438685184

SKrishna · Post by **SKrishna** » 16 Feb 2019 15:18

The train ran over a cattle and its breaks jammed. So much for gau raksha.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 16 Feb 2019 17:43

They have to wall all semi-high speed corridors. They have to improve the tracks with geometric track laying using modern machines - on a war fotting if they want to have a semi-high network seriously.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Feb 2019 20:29

its a disaster waiting to happen with unfenced tracks.

A Nandy · Post by **A Nandy** » 17 Feb 2019 12:30

Off it goes: https://twitter.com/PiyushGoyal/status/ ... 3880770560

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Feb 2019 14:19

in case anyone had doubts, this is the true character (or more to the point, lack of true character) of certain people always given to pompously spouting faltu gyan about civic amenities and lording it over their fellow citizens.

Kiran Mazumdar Shaw Verified account @kiranshaw

India's Fastest Train, Vande Bharat Express, Breaks Down Day After Launch - reflects poorly on Engineering & quality systems of ICF

Also, not to mention our very own runditv, notorious for running India down at every opportunity and many times even manufacturing such opportunities on its own

India's Fastest Train, Vande Bharat Express, Breaks Down Day After Launch

The Railway Ministry has attributed the disruption to a possible cattle run-over. However, there were no signs of damage on the front of the train.

The train had to be brought to Delhi to fix the fault and it cannot be driven above 40 km per hour for now, sources said.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 17 Feb 2019 14:34

Except that the train is on its first commercial run today and is close to the destination. While it's an hour late, it can't have gone that far by now at 40kmph...

One real positive fallout of the recent TRAI rules for TV is that entities like NDTV are fully blocked from my television. Fakers..

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Feb 2019 14:55

arshyam wrote:Except that the train is on its first commercial run today and is close to the destination. While it's an hour late, it can't have gone that far by now at 40kmph...

One real positive fallout of the recent TRAI rules for TV is that entities like NDTV are fully blocked from my television. Fakers..

mazumdar auntie got buggered real badly on SM. Serves her right, the pontificating congi groupie.

she thinks that she is better than the rest, what a fake human being and all this for just a few dollars more.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Feb 2019 16:23

All lines clear: Ground reality of unmanned railway crossings

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... s-5587541/

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 17 Feb 2019 20:08

Track side signalling equipment must go for semi HSR and HSR. It is a liability at speeds above 160kmph. Though Japan Railway uses it even in HSR as one tier of safety, it is not the primary system. If I find time I will write a technical post on how in cab signalling works, both historically and what it has evolved today. I dread to write it a bit as I have to explain Resonance and the simple differential equation for resonance that is taught in a basic ODE course for second years. All of us are using the principle of in cab signalling in the form of the boxes affixed to the windshield that collects automatic toll. Except the situation is reversed. The box stuck to the windshield of the car for EZPass/toll collection is the not moving stationary component fixed trackside for in cab signalling, while the monitor that is fixed at the toll booth is the moving element and attached to the loco. The principle for both systems, in cab signalling collecting toll is the same. It might be pertinent to point out that the boxes attached to the windshield of the car has no visible power source like even a battery, much less a cable to be attached to the power system of the car. This is because it relies on Resonance to generate the miniscule amount of power needed to operate the processor. European systems use a Motorola processor for in cab signalling on trains.

American systems like for example along the Northeast corridor rely on pulses sent along the tracks. The pulses move towards the train use the wheels to move to the other track and return thus completing the circuit. By solving the most elementary wave equation or by pictures in basic school books of vibrating air columns in closed tubes or open tubes like in a flute one knows that the frequencies under reflections are multiples of the basic frequency. This is the same even for electrical pulses, since it is the same wave equation governing electrical pulses or sound waves. Thus pulses are sent at frequencies of 180ppm, 120ppm and 80ppm(pulses per minute) which are not multiples of each other to prevent spurious echoes and false signals due to reflection of pulses. the multiples that appear is a simple exercise to calculate and depends on the boundary condition, Neumann condition for an open end, Dirichlet condition for a closed end say for vibrating air columns and need not be any concern for us here. The key takeaway is the ppm's have to be fixed so that if reflections occur it need not set up a false signal that causes error.

A signal received at 180ppm indicates to the pilot a clear line. 120 ppm means an approach, the pilot has to slow down and also indicate awareness by pressing a button etc what the German system calls wachsamkeitskontrolle awareness control. 80ppm is hard approach, slowing down even further with a possibility of stopping. If no pulses are detected by the device on the train the train has to stop. This also is a mechanism to alert the driver there is a break in the track and hence attendant loss of conductivity. Two birds are killed with one stone. Not slowing down or not responding to the awareness control mechanism within 5-6 seconds will then set in motion a sequence of events where emergency brakes are applied by the system. This is one of the reasons train companies are leery of some of these devices as rapid application of brakes on a fast moving train may cause derailments.

Here is a picture of a Siemens device on German Deutschebahn that I explained above based on Resonance. The second picture shows the radio frequency generator passing over the fixed track side device. This by itself is not good for real HSR at 250kmph and even better systems are needed. The Germans call the toll booth plaza systems intermittent systems or Induktive Zugsicherheit, or Indusi for short, it means Induction train(zug) Sicherheit(safety).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... magnet.jpg

This ^^^ would be the device on the windshield of your car.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DB_1 ... Magnet.JPG

A RF generator passing over a Indusi box.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 17 Feb 2019 22:10

Yup! VSundar agree.

In cab signalling is a must at anything over 80 kmph. Fencing and access controlls are their but tough to enforce without getting into a pointless confrontation with the local folks. For some section grade seperation maybe required for semi speed up. Thats how the chinese did.

Train 18 needs improvements. Should start work on the next iteration immedietely.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 17 Feb 2019 23:20

Access control is required in India. Those who have traveled by train in India will know they are marked by slums, ghettos and villages on either side of the tracks. This is not US or Germany or Japan. Even with advanced signaling system you won't be able to stop a cow strolling over the track suddenly.

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 18 Feb 2019 00:45

Vande Bharat arrived in Varanasi on time on first commercial run.

https://runningstatus.in/status/22436

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 18 Feb 2019 01:05

SKrishna wrote:The train ran over a cattle and its breaks jammed. So much for gau raksha.

Very common problem in this part of the country. More often than not happens outside the city.

Once traveling by Shiv Ganga express from Varanasi to Delhi, with train at full blast around 11 pm in the night, there were loud sounds in the coach as if it was being pommelled from underside. Soon scary sparks started coming. We pulled the chain and train stopped. We came to know that the train had hit a buffalo and carcass was caught underneath the 2nd AC coach, throwing up the ballast, hitting the coach, causing the sparks and sounds. RPF blokes came and pulled some of it out.

Train started but soon the pounding from ballast thrown up by the carcass started and so did the sparks. Train stopped again. RPF blokes came, so did the loco driver, guard. Eventually it was yours truly who pulled the rest of the carcass from down under and we were on our way. Facing dead carcass better than boss angry at one being late.

These are intelligent animals. My theory goes, they willingly take Train Samadhi following in the traditions of our sages who are known to take from Jal Samadhi, to Him Samadhi etc.

Anyway, with semi high speed and now bullet trains coming, time to barricade high speed tracks. Large parts of it have been done on Delhi - Agra - Gwalior route, needs to be done across other high speed corridors.

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 18 Feb 2019 02:14

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 18 Feb 2019 02:15

Rear side speed dial showed Train 18 going perhaps at 180+

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 18 Feb 2019 07:01

^^ That was from a trial run. The train is currently cleared up to 130kmph only as that's the max permitted speed of the Delhi-Kolkata track.

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 18 Feb 2019 13:32

http://www.mcf.indianrailways.gov.in/vi ... 95,700,702

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 18 Feb 2019 13:44

Supratik wrote:Access control is required in India. Those who have traveled by train in India will know they are marked by slums, ghettos and villages on either side of the tracks. This is not US or Germany or Japan. Even with advanced signaling system you won't be able to stop a cow strolling over the track suddenly.

We need a invisible force field near the tracks that can stop stones, cattle and ticketless travel.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 18 Feb 2019 16:47

^^just curious if these HSRs also have a direct/indirect bearing on our military abilities or they are just for us civvies?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Feb 2019 20:17

the DFC corridors will definitely help in moving heavy equipment on our land frontiers. semi-HSRs not so much....but the signaling improvements driven by semi-HSR will ripple effect the system and make things faster.

in a all out war, passenger trains will be cancelled and all trains requisitioned for military movements. same for planes. and lakhs of commercial trucks.

our country has massive logistical resources if push comes to shove.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 18 Feb 2019 21:07

Faujis should be entitled to travel on these trains while on leave. Let them have an extra day with their families. Since these will be first introduced in the Gangetic belt and many of our faujis hail from there, it will be a good token of appreciation.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Feb 2019 01:17

https://twitter.com/aviralrashtriya/sta ... 4044209152

Aviral Singh @aviralrashtriya

Here's the passenger experience of traveling at 130 Kmph on board #VandeBharatExpress
Do you hear any sound of rails?
Negligible jerk as it can be seen
The train ran at the same speed for almost 70% of the journey and ppl were totally in awe wid the experience they were gng thrg

Video embedded inside

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Feb 2019 13:35

After being chewed up and spat out on social media, the eternally pontificating and moronic urban naxal, the shameless darbari & congi groupie apologizes.

Kiran Mazumdar Shaw Verified account @kiranshaw Feb 17

Since I don’t want to hear any more abusive tweets I apologise for responding to media news on Train18 n admit that I don’t understand the locomotive sector well to opine on what went wrong. I am glad it’s back on track n wish Train18 all success n congratulate ICF engineers

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 19 Feb 2019 14:46

Congi groupie is exactly wrong. She's been "advising" the make-up of the new Congress/UPA manifesto for 2019.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Feb 2019 15:03

Kashi wrote:Congi groupie is exactly wrong. She's been "advising" the make-up of the new Congress/UPA manifesto for 2019.

rajya sabha seat aspirant.

she needs to kiss a lot of frogs before she finds that elusive prince who gives her that seat.

Kiran Mazumdar Shaw, sister of george bernard shaw?? Isn't that how she sees herself??

exactly what qualifications does she have to comment on the engineering and technical matters pertaining to Train 18??

twitter response

Absolutely Madam. I wish I could say the same to your parents too about you. But will not.

Kiran Mazumdar Shaw Verified account @kiranshaw

India's Fastest Train, Vande Bharat Express, Breaks Down Day After Launch - reflects poorly on Engineering & quality systems of ICF

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 19 Feb 2019 19:55

3 block sections remain to be doubled between Trivandrum and Kochi, rest is all complete and electrified. Out of these one block section is in a fairly advanced state and will probably be commissioned in a few months. The Chingavanam to Kottayam block section is a worry due to LA issues and this is compounded by this being Kerala.

Highlights:
1. Etumanoor-Kurrupanthara in a fairly advanced state of doubling, should be commissioned before the next monsoon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HsS75HoXrM

2.Kottayam-Ettamanoor: New ROB seems done and the older ROB is being dismantled to provide room for the doubling. Bridge over river Meenachil seems complete. This is the major bridge. This section will be the next to be commissioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzKbwMda9sc&t=451s

3. Chingavanam-Kottayam: Not much progress and this is the bottleneck due to LA issues. The current line passes through a tunnel. The idea is to create a new alignment that makes no use of the tunnel and a deep cut carries both lines, the up and down lines. The tunnel and the existing line will be used as a shunting neck for Kottayam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsSsQ7CUnxQ

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 19 Feb 2019 20:08

Feb 14-16th, CRS inspection was done for railway electrification between Ballari(Bellary) and Guntakal. Also CRS inspected doubling between Annigeri-Binkadakatti on the same route Guntakal-Hubli. Now two block sections remain
to be doubled between Hospet and Hubli all around Gadag, Gadag-Binkadakatti(6km) and Harlapur-Gadag (15 km) for which track linking is done upto Gadag outer. Capacity is being increased in this area to provide better connectivity East-West from Goa to Vijayawada, freight travels along this route with severe detention in many cases. Also North-South Hotgi/Solapur-Gadag where doubling and electrification is taking place. OHE equipment installation has gone beyond Ballari to Hospet-Gadag and beyond. So both doubling and electrification is proceeding quickly. In a year both should be over to Hubli and then the major challenge will be doubling at Braganza Ghat and Dudhsagar Falls and to placate the Goa lobby that is creating impediments due to LA for doubling purposes.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 19 Feb 2019 23:52

^^what exactly went wrong with Train 18. Irrespective of details, i would say the following
1. It reflects the transparency of our system to be fine and move on with such flaws
2. It's better to have these teething issues sorted out domestically, before we start exporting it. There's no reason why we can't export these trains to the lazy and progressively getting incompetent countries in europe, if they need it
3. People behind it should be made hero, it was discussed about dr kota harinyarayana in earlier LCA threads by someone, but now I do see that happening. People will emulate them. With congi eco system getting weaker, these folks will have awards,stations and trains after their names.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Feb 2019 15:15

worthy of some padma shri and bhushan awards surely, than various bag carriers , echo sounders, sim cards and media launderers of the old ecosystem.

Prashanth_R · Post by **Prashanth_R** » 20 Feb 2019 18:20

One more attack on Train 18 today

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 079471.cms

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Feb 2019 21:25

following the stone hurling , some idiot abandoned his bike on the tracks, when trying to sneak through and saw T18 coming fast.
fortunately the cow catcher threw the bike and train did not suffer damage.

being UP/Bihar belt these are doing to be daily dramas. hope some tractor filled with people trying to sneak across does not stall and driver runs away, leaving the rest to run if they can

Fencing is a must.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 20 Feb 2019 21:47

The UP-Bihar railway lines are littered with slums. Without a semi high corridor these types of incidences will happen.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 20 Feb 2019 23:13

Fencing won't solve stone throwing. Only good behaviour can, that's something no govt can enforce.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 20 Feb 2019 23:26

WRT stone throwing it will get there. These things used to happen a lot/occasionally still happen in the West too. No need to criminalize the population.

Fencing by itself won't solve anything. Ultimately the people need awareness and options. Grade separation in high population areas will be required as well.

It will get the there. People in India are inherently good. Awareness, higher educational levels, better security, folks have things to do all have already reduced the issue and will continue to reduce these issues.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 21 Feb 2019 00:35

I think they are planning walls along populated areas.

RajeevK · Post by **RajeevK** » 21 Feb 2019 00:50

I do not feel building a wall would solve the problem. I live on the outskirts of Delhi and there is a railway crossing quite close. It was a manual crossing. 2-3 years back, an underpass was built. It was only used by vehicles. People on foot or two wheeler still used to cross the railway line. A few months back, a wall was built. The wall was somewhat wider than the road. So people on foot just go around the wall now.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 21 Feb 2019 20:56

Yard work taking place at Hoshangabad preparatory to commissioning the third line between Itarsi and Hoshangabad. Trains face severe detention on Chennai-Delhi, Hyderabad-Delhi and Mumbai-Delhi routes as they have to crawl at 15kmph over the section where automatic signalling is turned off. Beyond Hoshangabad towards Bhopal, the Narmada third railway bridge is also ready and so Itarsi-Budni (30km) is up for commissioning soon once yard work depicted in the video is completed in Hoshangabad. This is part of the Bhopal-Itarsi third line project along the spine of India. 120km is already commissioned, Bina-Bhopal-Habibganj.
Jhansi-Bina (153km) will see some patch tripling this fiscal and may take 2 years for full tripling. Mathura-Agra-Jhansi tripling is sanctioned but work has not started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byzaA0DYkNA