Naval LCA - News and Discussion

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JayS
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by JayS »

nam wrote:I doubt any other organisation has put out such details on building Control Laws for carrier jets.
Amirkhan wins hands down in putting technical info in public domain. I am sure there is enough information out there already to make one half-baked CLAW engineer by studying it. There are some serious technical presentation videos on YouTube for similar work on F/A-18 for example. In fact more detailed than this. I am not trying to downplay these efforts, these are excellent compared to what has been done so far. We cannot even download already published papers by ADA or NAL for free, whatever limited amount they publish, but we have very easy access to stuff from US sources. I always felt these government agencies never did their part of disseminating domain specific technical knowledge to Indian citizen and Indian industry in general. In some other country, the codes developed by them would have been made available to any Indian company for free or at nominal cost. Their publications would have been hosted on website for every Indian to download freely.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

souravB wrote:X-posting from Aero India thread
The full Webinar on LCA Navy CLAW


This is a treasure trove of information which shows the progress SDREs have made in carrier borne aircrafts.
Good Video , Seems the Tejas has to land at higher AOA , The control law work is quite an eyeopener
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

gaurav.p wrote:SJha posted this great news.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1080408813918801920
ADA says NP-1 & NP-2 LCA-Navy demonstrators are heading towards carrier trials from a ski-jump (STOBAR) carrier, which in our case is the INS Vikramaditya. Take-off with full-fuel and two R-73 AAMs has been demonstrated. ADA says that landings with 10 tonne plus all-up weight has also been achieved.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1080405213322797056
According to ADA some 18 ski-jump take-offs have been done by the LCA-Navy demonstrators at the Shore Based Test Facility in Goa till date. Two of them at night. LCA-Navy is apparently ready to perform take-off tests from the INS Vikramaditya. More than 200 approach touchdowns have been done at the SBTF. 18 'bolter' touchdowns have also been done. From touchdown to take-off in just 125 metres.
Some more quotes from Saurav Jha on the subject...

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1080410485973905410 ---> Future modifications can make NP-1 & 2 compatible for trials from the proposed CATOBAR carrier called IAC-2 (Vishal).

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1080410072688160768 ---> Design has also been validated under carrier motion and sea-state simulation conditions.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1080408813918801920 ---> ADA says NP-1 & NP-2 LCA-Navy demonstrators are heading towards carrier trials from a ski-jump (STOBAR) carrier, which in our case is the INS Vikramaditya. They are however currently not capable of operations from a CATOBAR carrier.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1080407578918567936 ---> 18 'bolter' touchdowns have also been done. From touchdown to take-off in just 125 metres.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1080406602778177536 ---> More than 200 approach touchdowns have been done at the SBTF. Including 18 high sink-rate touchdowns.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by titash »



This is amazing!

So in essence we have more or less mastered naval fighter design. The SBTF offers very low wind on deck, so the NLCA is restricted to 2 R-73 + full fuel. The desi carrier can steam at 30+ knots if I recall correctly and if the carrier turns into the wind, we should be able to launch CAPs with full air defence configuration hopefully.

It's a start. The next fighter can have GE414s or two F404 engines...whatever adds thrust. But the enabling technologies are all there.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

Navy Chief on N Tejas

https://www.theweek.in/theweek/current/ ... india.html
But you have said no to the LCA Navy variant of the Tejas fighter.

No. We have always supported the LCA programme since its inception and provided financial support, specialised manpower and other important resources. However, there have been some delays in respect of carrier-compatibility tests of these aircraft. As the LCA cannot fructify in time to meet the requirements of IAC-1, alternate acquisition options are being pursued.

LCA Navy Mark 1 has been designated as a technological demonstrator and, during its developmental journey, it will achieve and prove niche technologies such as the arrestor hook system, lightweight strengthened undercarriage and carrier-compatibility testing. These technologies will be incorporated in the Mark 2 version, which is currently in design phase. The Mark 2 would thus form the stepping stone for a credible indigenous deck-based fighter in the coming years.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 4276283393 ---> Presenting some of the armaments attached to the Light Combat Aircraft Navy, on Static Display at Aero India 2019.

Image
Kakarat
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Kakarat »

https://twitter.com/VinodDX9/status/1098096722763345921
Is this tail added to LCA Navy Mk 2?
The design looks completely different, looks like a new wing design

Image
Indranil
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Indranil »

No, you are not missing anything.

Image

It is a very interesting design. I expected a tailplane, but not a full delta.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by sankum »

Thanks, Indranil. Please post all the info graphic you have and waiting for the article.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by John »

Picture implies 11 hard points but armament breakdown shows only 9.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Shekhar Singh »

Any idea about internal fuel capacity, empty weight and weapon load?
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by sankum »

There are only 9 hardpoints. The belly can carry 2 BVR AAM in multirack as the wheels have moved out.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by gaurav.p »

The front view of the plane shows that the fuselage has been widened along with air intake showing some inward curve.

Compared to MWF, IRST is missing. And going by the specs.
- length, width and wingarea also increased
- g Limits are lower and max speed as well (1.6 vs 1.8 mach)
- also MTOW reduced by 0.5T
- also 9 hardpoints vs 11 of MWF

Happy to see the reasonable creep and the divergence of NLCA mk2.
The active fuel transfer for better CG control gets into MWF as well?
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Indranil »

I will be surprised if they have 9 hardpoints, instead of 11. Yes, the wing is much larger. They have introduced a LERX and replaced the LEVCON with another slat. The fuselage hasn't change since last AI. Essentially MWF and LCA NAvy Mk2 are two different aircrafts when it comes to the airframe. Perhaps, the basis for another article.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by sankum »

There are 11 hardpoints. Two more on both sides of centreline belly hardpoint to carry two BVR as shown in NLCA mk2 model in aeroindia thread.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by srin »

Why doesn't the LCA Navy Mk2 have canards ?
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Kartik »

The entire configuration has changed.

Looking for better quality images of that LCA Navy Mk2 design. Isn't there a model of the LCA Navy Mk2 at Aero India?
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by shettyp »

Indranil wrote:No, you are not missing anything.

It is a very interesting design. I expected a tailplane, but not a full delta.
In the IAF version of LCA Mk2 there are canards, I am not seeing canards in this one. Or am I seeing things!
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by hnair »

Thought would see canards on NLCA Mk2 too! Those little elevators at the back look adorable :lol: Wonder what is the story behind those gimpy little things?
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by gaurav.p »

https://twitter.com/vkthakur/status/1098629725407174657 ---> Major tweaks in LCA Navy Mk2 design - ADA does away with LEVCONS, introduces stabilators (Ah ha! It now has tail plane thingies!) and vortex flaps based on CFD simulations optimization.

Image
Image credits = vkthakur twitter

adding info from the same thread
ADA is pursuing #LCANavyMk2 as a clean state design featuring optimized deck handling, minimized approach speed (via use of vortex flaps), lighter undercarriage (via outboard shift of wings), active CG control (via pump based fuel transfer)

GE has given ADA a presentation on the GE 414EPE but hasn't yet received US govt clearance for its sale. Initial batch of #LCANavyMk2 would hence be powered by GE 414 INS6 engines with 35% more power than the GE 404
Last edited by gaurav.p on 21 Feb 2019 23:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

WOW! Very nice picture gaurav!
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Cybaru »

That bulging (on the sides of engines) from the top view and the bottom view is all new! I take it area earmarked for more internal fuel tanks? I think NLCA will have even more fuel than the 3300 kgs in IAFs model. Looks gorgeous!!
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by srin »

I'm a bit concerned about the divergence of NLCA Mk2 from the IAF Tejas Mk2 for two reasons:
- this means that ADA has to work on Tejas Mk1A, Tejas MK2, AMCA and Ghatak while also working on NLCA Mk2 - all with challenging timelines.
- I vaguely remember that in one of the Aero India seminars of previous years, it was mentioned (by ADA person ??) that one of the things they realized was that they should have designed the NLCA first, and then the IAF LCA. This new development (of a quite different NLCA) means that we didn't put that learning into practice.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Kartik »

Another image of LCA Navy Mk2

Image

Surprisingly little coverage or discussion on the LCA Navy Mk2..no status of the program, no expected timelines, no details on the changes proposed..isn't anyone from BRF at Aero India?
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Snehashis »

LCA Navy Mk2 would hence be powered by GE 414 INS6 engines with 35% more power than the GE 404
Plain vanilla F-404 provides 79 kn. It translates GE 414 INS6 will provide at least 106.65 kn thrust.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Cybaru »

srin wrote:I'm a bit concerned about the divergence of NLCA Mk2 from the IAF Tejas Mk2 for two reasons:
- this means that ADA has to work on Tejas Mk1A, Tejas MK2, AMCA and Ghatak while also working on NLCA Mk2 - all with challenging timelines.
- I vaguely remember that in one of the Aero India seminars of previous years, it was mentioned (by ADA person ??) that one of the things they realized was that they should have designed the NLCA first, and then the IAF LCA. This new development (of a quite different NLCA) means that we didn't put that learning into practice.

I think everyone decided that they wanted different enough things that they diverged. Similar to Rafale A/B/M or F35 A/B/C. Lots of commonality and lots of differences but same heritage.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by souravB »

Is it weird that I like the NLCA design & the color more than the AF version? Looks pretty muscular. Wingtip hardpoints would have been nicer so it could be used for ECCM pods when required but it's just a wishlist.
This shows the maturity ADA have acquired in designing. Three different designs at once with three different parameters in mind.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by sankum »

The IN was already objecting as one lift of INS Vikramaditya is 8.6m wide and NLCA mk2 is 8.9m wide. Therefore no scope of adding wingtip missile.
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by tushar_m »

No they can still have wingtip missiles

Image
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Kartik »

They cannot unless the LCA Navy Mk2's wing tips also fold, like those of the Super Hornet. It won't fit on the lifts unless that happens, given its wing span of ~8.6m
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

They can compensate if needed by using dual arm launcher in of the the A2A hardpoints
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Kakarat »

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1098845569609535488
FIRST ON LIVEFIST: The naval Light Combat Aircraft gets new tailplanes & shape tweaks as it fights for a future with the @IndianNavy. First images from designers below:
Image
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

They call the Rear Tail Vortex Flaps to reduce approaching speed ? What was wrong with levcons ?
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

probably further from CG than levons so more moment of force to push the tail down and flare the plane?
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Is there any other delta with tail plane thingies?
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

MiG-21
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1099169561071411200 ---> In the midst of all the excitement surrounding the Tejas Mk2 MWF design, it is easy to forget that the LCA-Navy Mk2 will also be substantially improved with respect to the Navy Mk1. A stabilator for improved control & performance is being added.

Image
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

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