Pulwama Attack

disha · Post by **disha** » 23 Feb 2019 05:59

partha wrote:FWIW, according to Barkha Dutt, multiple parallel things are happening in Kashmir and some are not fit to be put out in public domain due to their sensitive nature.

My very humble request. Please ignore Bdutt. Get off her twitter feed if necessary. Please do not give oxygen to that troll who has jeopardized the lives of our soldiers and our innocent civilians. Any attention given to her is toxic for the nation.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 23 Feb 2019 06:07

Yes yes. BDUTT has never put any "sensitive information" into the public domain. Not during Kargil, when she broadcast the artillery positions of the Indian Army. Not during 26/11, when she broadcast the tactical approach of the MARCOS and NSG towards the besieged Taj Hotel. Why does Pakistan NEED an ISI when there are people like her allowed to go anywhere in India with a microphone and camera?

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 23 Feb 2019 06:50

sudeepj wrote:
pankajs wrote: 2 JeM terrorist from Kashmir arrested in UP. Seems there are modules outside Kashmir. Hopefully we get them all before any further event.
Second low intensity blast after the one in Kalindi express. This reinforces the theory that the Pulwama attack was not a spectacular 'one off'. It was simply the first move in a planned strategy to restart widespread jihad in India and to possibly influence general elections 2019. How Indian security managers raise the price for Pakistan will determine if the strategy is nipped in the bud or the blood of innocent Indian citizens continues to be shed without any recourse.

The only thing common Indians can do is to be united and walk the path of Dharma. Every generation has a time when its tested like no other. Most Indians today who were born and came to age after the economic reforms have only seen improvements in their lives. As a child, I read the daily journal of my father who himself was a student when the 65 war was fought. He recorded that almost every student in his college responded to Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri's call to give up eating one day a weak, so India would not be blackmailed by Western food aid. Such a time is perhaps upon us again. Be brave, and keep the faith in mother India.

I remember those days very well, was in school. LBS also called upon each of us to save 3p a day IIRC. In our house too we gave up one meal per week (it was not one whole day a week but one meal a week that he asked us to give up). My cousins in Delhi used to go to the local train stations with food and chai for the soldiers headed north in the trains. The entire nation was united in its war effort and fully supported our army and the PM. Of course there was no SM then. Today, I sense the same feeling across the country but sadly the Congoons are trying desperately to break this solidarity. Anything to keep Modi out of power even if they have to sell the nation for it.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 23 Feb 2019 06:53

Sumeet wrote:
Singha wrote:raga has roped in gen hooda retd theater commander of northern sector to draft some kind of security policy for his campaign.
Didn't the general see INC behavior after surgical strikes asking for proof etc why align yourself with people with dubious motives as far as India's military and security interests are concerned ?

Dubious behavior? Does the only ever replacement of a Parliamentary standing committee chairman before his term count as dubious behavior? 6 mo before Parliament itself dissolves? And what was Gen Khanduri's great crime? Why... Pointing out the shortages that the military faces. Shortages that drastically reduce India's options now for retaliation.

Dubious motives on national security...

If the opposition has a half decent leader instead of a corrupt brain dead Rahul Gandhi this government would not return.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 23 Feb 2019 06:58

^^ That's what the media reported. Do you have first hand info that's what occurred? If you are going by media reportage, all I can say is, dont.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 23 Feb 2019 08:00

Karan M wrote:^^ That's what the media reported. Do you have first hand info that's what occurred? If you are going by media reportage, all I can say is, dont.

An adverse report on National Security for a govt. that positions itself as the natural party of National Security before an election year. Occam's razor and all that.

That apart, it's somewhat surreal reading the 50 pages in this thread. There's war's happening - 1 fronts, 2 front, Bangladesh Redux. The reality is the SCOD report says we don't even have 10 days of war wastage reserves. To quote the VCOAS "Funds allocated is insufficient and the Army is finding it difficult to even stock arms, ammunition, spares for a 10-day intensive war.".

India has very few options because Governments over time including this one have not just failed to create them but seem to have gone out of their way to foreclose them.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Feb 2019 08:03

Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri's call to give up eating one day a weak, so India would not be blackmailed by Western food aid.

My parents went hungry too, more than one day a week. Most days, in fact.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 23 Feb 2019 08:14

I'm not sure if going hungry is the right move in a capitalist economy.

If anything, it causes a cut back in food production as the group of people who can pay for the goods stop their consumption thus causing farmers financial distress. It's a disincentive to expand crop production if anything.

Nevertheless the sentiment is very noble.

As for cell phone purchases, simply mandate that instead of 30%, manufacturers by law must raise local content to 50% within 2 years - with the extra 20% being strictly in semiconductor design & manufacture.

Keep hiking it every 2 years thereafter. Finally mandate the processor itself be designed & fabricated in India.

That's how China did it. So too should India. Offset US company losses with broadbased military goods purchases.

That's the simple way to do it. It will give turbo charge thr country's economy.

But babuz as always are as unimaginative as can be when it comes to geo-economic strategy.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Feb 2019 08:20

Neshant wrote:I'm not sure if going hungry is the right move in a capitalist economy.
If anything, it causes a cut back in food production as the group of people who can pay for the goods stop their consumption thus causing farmers financial distress. It's a disincentive to expand crop production if anything.
Nevertheless the sentiment is very nobel.

Neshantji, sneering noted, thanks. Perhaps your generation needs this explained slowly and carefully. In our time there was no "capitalist economy" in India. India did NOT have enough food. Famine was a real danger every year. Food was imported, in this case under PL-480 from the US. In the south, rice was short, and imported wheat made older people sick, but at least it was food. That was what was held as blackmail by the US administration in 1965 to force India to give up "Cashmore".

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 23 Feb 2019 08:47

anjan wrote:
Karan M wrote:^^ That's what the media reported. Do you have first hand info that's what occurred? If you are going by media reportage, all I can say is, dont.
An adverse report on National Security for a govt. that positions itself as the natural party of National Security before an election year. Occam's razor and all that.

That apart, it's somewhat surreal reading the 50 pages in this thread. There's war's happening - 1 fronts, 2 front, Bangladesh Redux. The reality is the SCOD report says we don't even have 10 days of war wastage reserves. To quote the VCOAS "Funds allocated is insufficient and the Army is finding it difficult to even stock arms, ammunition, spares for a 10-day intensive war.".

India has very few options because Governments over time including this one have not just failed to create them but seem to have gone out of their way to foreclose them.

Anjan ji, could you kindly state these options highlighted in your post?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Feb 2019 08:54

The second way of addressing this asymmetry is to grow an unconventional force in Kashmir Valley that both collects information and assassinates jihadis.

Circa 2002 there was such an organization. Fortunately I cannot remember the name and I request that who do, forget it. I am sure nothing of the sort exists now, because there is no activity.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 23 Feb 2019 08:58

anjan wrote:An adverse report on National Security for a govt. that positions itself as the natural party of National Security before an election year. Occam's razor and all that.

Many in the media, as is well known, loathe the current Govt. Taking anything at face value from them is unwise. Exactly per Occam's razor.

The reality is the SCOD report says we don't even have 10 days of war wastage reserves. To quote the VCOAS "Funds allocated is insufficient and the Army is finding it difficult to even stock arms, ammunition, spares for a 10-day intensive war.".

Lets be clear here. There were multiple points made by a GOI study on the matter and subsequent responses. The fact that you are unaware of them, despite being on BRF is pretty indicative that you have been almost completely misled by the media reportage which you thought was accurate, when it was anything but.

To begin with, your information is completely out of date. Lets look at the timeframe noted.

Earlier, the Comptroller and Auditor General of India (CAG) too had highlighted severe shortfall of ammunition and spares. In a report placed before the Parliament in 2015, the CAG had observed: "while availability of authorised stock against War Wastage Reserve (WWR) to meet the expected duration of operation formed the basic criteria for ensuring the operational readiness of the Army, we found during the review that against the WWR of 40 (I) days, the availability of ammunition was only in 10 per cent of the total types of ammunition held (March 2013)."

To the point.

1. The proposal for having high WWR for an extended timeframe was fundamentally unworkable and never seriously taken up by the services themselves. An Army expert deposing in front of the respective committees quipped that if all the ammo "laid down in the requirement" was ordered, where would we store it? Simply put the storage capacity was completely insufficient. WWRs are themselves based on a very high consumption pattern of specific items, which is rarely if ever the case. Most countries have moved to a mix of EOQ based batch ordering for specific items and stockpiling the more scarce, high lead time items. E.g. bullets would come in the first category, a specific spare for a complex machine in the 2nd.

2. Based on above, entire projection and holding pattern for WWRs has been reworked to a mix of high intensity conflict (at which highest rate of consumption will occur) and more "normal" consumption thereafter. The numbers frequently thrown about are for the former rate.

3. WWRs being insufficient for <10 days viz the point above, were also with respect to specific items. Not all items. These specific items included items like gun ammo for the Mi-35 attack choppers, FSAPDS for the Tanks etc. Again, these were met by providing significant financial powers to the level of the VCOAS and significant purchases were made as well as signing priority deals to make up for the lacunae. Again, I am not going to spend more time on this necessary as the details are spread out across multiple weblinks in this forum, reports etc. But you should be aware of the fact we struck an emergency purchase deal for BM-42 FSAPDS with Russia + TOT, that the DRDO program was simultaneously cleared and recently passed its trials (giving us a 2nd line of FSAPDS ammo if we so desire), REFLEKs rounds were ordered en masse as a backup for the lag time in getting FSAPDs and finally, we even devolved financial order powers to the Service HQ, at the level of the VCOAS if memory serves.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/i ... 2017-07-12

The army identified 46 kinds of ammunition, spares for 10 weapons platforms like infantry combat vehicles and half-a-dozen mines of various kinds as critical for war fighting. These items can be purchased through the emergency purchase route.

The executive order authorising the Vice Chief of Indian Army to make emergency purchases was issued recently. The delegation of financial powers shortens the long winded process and red-tape plagued process of procurement.

"Unlike previous process, there is no per-determined cap on the amount that can be spent. Rather, the limit to spending has been tied to the minimum stores, ammunition that must be in the reserve of the army at given time. This is big shift," a senior Ministry of Defence officer said.

Now. Lets look at the big picture numbers as of 2018.
https://48months.mygov.in/wp-content/up ... 503472.pdf Go to pages 15 onwards for the actual numbers involved for overall procurement.

Page 19 has the specific items regarding ammunition.
25,000 crores worth of ammunition orders placed. That's $3 Bn of ammo orders at the exchange rate of Rs 80 to a dollar.
An equal number in the pipeline
Service HQ now have financial powers to make their purchases.

4. The above is actually nothing vis a vis what this Govt has actually done for the national security setup. The biggest thing is that they brought common sense and accountability back into the entire setup. Now I could quote what a very respected naval designer who spends his time day in and night out negotiating with his designers, vendors etc for some big-ticket programs says about the change in MOD functioning under the current GOI, but leave that out for now. First lets take Parrikars tenure. Came in, saw the complete dysfunction in procurement, makes a quip about how Govts buy stuff but don't maintain it and made it a priority that Su-30 and general fleet availability rises. The Su-30s were at 45% when Modi et al came in. By 2017, they were at 60%.

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... r-4471113/
It has risen further after that.

By 2017 itself.
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/a ... 2017-02-15

SERVICEABILITY: Every HAL supplied platform has 65 per cent serviceability and Sukhoi 30 MKI maximum serviceability of 68 per cent. We have given a proposal to MoD to become Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) for Sukhoi in India.

For a 200 odd Flanker fleet, that translates to around 2 squadrons plus of aircraft made available right off the bat.

By Gagan Shakti, 2018 this is what we had:

IAF was able to achieve 80% serviceability of aircraft while radars and surface to air guided weapons maintained a serviceability of 97%, which included some of the legacy systems that were over 40 years old. Focused effort enabled a dispatch rate of more than 95% for the Combat Assets, 100% availability of Combat Support Systems and almost 100% dispatch rates of Combat Enablers. This had been possible due to good planning and dedicated efforts of our airwarriors as well as continuous support by DPSUs that is HAL, BEL and DRDO. Flight line unserviceabilities were promptly rectified by dedicated maintenance crew. The logistics stamina of the IAF and the ability to sustain continuous operations through day and night was put through a rigorous assessment. Contingencies such as repair of battle damaged aircraft and relocation, of essential services due to enemy air action were also practiced.

So tell me, what prompted this IAF exercise and how did the sea change in the attitude of the support orgs come about?

Heres the source:
https://www.indiastrategic.in/2018/04/2 ... akti-2018/

Take a direct quote from the main man himself.
http://www.defstrat.com/interview-air-c ... ysm-vm-adc

CAS A major highlight of the exercise was a very high availability and reliability of all combat assets including aircraft, missile systems and radars. High tempo operations also enabled the IAF to ascertain sustainability of the logistics chain. We were able to achieve desired serviceability of aircraft. The radars and surface to air guided weapons also maintained a very high serviceability, which included some of the legacy systems that were over 40 years old. Focused effort enabled an exceptional dispatch rate of more than 95% for the Combat Assets, 100% availability of Combat Support Systems and exceptional dispatch rates of Combat Enablers. This had been possible due to good planning and dedicated efforts of our air warriors as well as continuous support by DPSUs like HAL & BEL and also DRDO. The Exercise also confirmed that the IAF is capable of high sortie generation rate along with sustenance of high serviceability through operations. This would have a force multiplier effect.

These sort of numbers, suffice to say, were a dream in years past.

Apart from this, we have had ALH logistics set up and taken over by HAL maintaining a spares stockpile - huge customer grouse no movement till current Govt.
Then Su-30 etc addressed by HAL with measures like this:
https://www.financialexpress.com/india- ... ju/595777/
http://www.asianage.com/india/all-india ... pares.html

The point is very simple, this Govt focused on things that matter without a huge hue and cry over some acquisition or the other. I can personally state that the Rafale deal is but the tip of the iceberg in terms of what the deal actually got us. I am not going around yacking because after seeing the mendacity of the opposition, nothing sensitive the current Govt did should be shared, even if deduced via open source, lest these idiots try to sabotage it.

One last thing, ever heard of a DM note that a specific missile was unserviceable and needed to be fixed? Parrikar sent a delegation to Russia for that. The current DM is busy carrying on fixing the MIC as well, and there are several reports already which I've heard. But lets leave it for now.

India has very few options because Governments over time including this one have not just failed to create them but seem to have gone out of their way to foreclose them.

In this, you are completely mistaken.
The current Govt inherited a broken treasury, could not tom tom it for the loss of investor confidence it would case, faced public expectations set around constant subsidies and freebies, huge outflows in terms of OROP and many other demands & has been navigating a minefield even so, whilst steadily adding capabilities.

No other Govt broke the Tejas logjam or without any fuss gave DRDO a year on year budget increase, to keep them going with critical programs. All this without scams or misdemeanour.

5. The COAS, VCAS etc want ad-hocism stopped, which is that they want the budget announced earlier in the year to include up-front the committed funds and don't want to rush to the MOD etc for emergency funds. They are deeply concerned about this particular factor and its a rational and well-justified concern. However, this does not mean that no purchases have been made either. As the figures above show orders have been placed & supplies are underway, and there are tangible improvements in terms of platform availability as well.

6. It will take at least 1-2 more tenures of the NDA till the money situation i.e. economy gets into the gear that justifies huge upfront commitment & not the kind of juggling we are seeing now. Based on what they inherited and what they faced, context does matter.

While things are not perfect, they are by no means as bleak as you thought they were either.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Feb 2019 09:00

From Trump bahadur's latest statement, looks like his mediating between both his munnas. "Baad situation" according to him, equal equal onlee. Ackkk Thoo.

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 23 Feb 2019 09:06

Karan,
That was very well written rebuttal. The amount of time time taken for you to rebut is many times more than for the initial poster to sling mud. In this difficult time, such posters should be asked to cool their heels for such mudslinging posts.

(S)He could have done the same research as you.

I always confuse the name with Anujan, whose posts I found informative.

arun · Post by **arun** » 23 Feb 2019 09:19

PRC does its Great Wall of China Act to protect client State, the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan, that there is no significance to the UN Security Council naming Pakistan based Islamic Terrorist organisation, Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) as responsible for the Pulwama Islamic Terrorist attack:

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Geng Shuang's Regular Press Conference on February 22, 2019

Q: The United Nations Security Council yesterday issued a press statement on the attack in India-controlled Kashmir, identifying Jaish-e-Mohammed as responsible for the attack. Does this mean that the Security Council now has evidence in hand to prove that JeM is the perpetrator of the attack? What are your comments?

A: China has been closely following the development of this recent attack. In yesterday's Security Council press statement, a specific organization was mentioned, but it was a general statement rather than a judgment. The Chinese side has noted that the Pakistani government expressed its will to coordinate with India in the investigation and seek to resolve differences through dialogue. Parties concerned should conduct objective and unbiased investigation to find out the truth. China hopes that India and Pakistan can exercise restraint, engage in dialogues and make joint efforts to preserve peace and stability of the region.

From here:

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Geng Shuang's Regular Press Conference on February 22, 2019

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 23 Feb 2019 09:24

^^ These guys can do all such posturing, but they forget one thing: the elephant never forgets.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 23 Feb 2019 09:25

Thanks Sanju, that time differential thing is always the same and sometimes leads to BRF vanvas, hopefully we can mitigate that to some extent.
I just wished to point out that our services are capable of fighting hard and have been given certain capabilities.

For instance, if I see the IAFs radar & SAM network, it has almost been completely revitalized (orders wise) and significant amounts of equipment have already made their way to the IAF.

Speaking of Anujan. I hope he is doing well and is somewhere around, lurking I hope?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 23 Feb 2019 09:35

Home Minister says this time the fight on Terrorism will be a Definitive one

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Feb 2019 10:09

Karan M's unfortunate role in brf is like king Vikramaditya in Vikram aur Betaal

after putting tremendous effort to rebut comments like the above, some other Betaal will appear again next week with the same questions and off the cuff comments.
and the cycle will repeat.

to cut the gordian knot, I request a stick thread be there on top of this forum where both the original betaalish post and Karan's reply be moved , and in due course such good posts like rudradevs or others can be kept on appending there. else they all get submerged and lost.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Feb 2019 10:12

disha wrote:
partha wrote:FWIW, according to Barkha Dutt, multiple parallel things are happening in Kashmir and some are not fit to be put out in public domain due to their sensitive nature.
My very humble request. Please ignore Bdutt. Get off her twitter feed if necessary. Please do not give oxygen to that troll who has jeopardized the lives of our soldiers and our innocent civilians. Any attention given to her is toxic for the nation.

public response and attention is the O2 that sustains the life of discredited media "personalities" like barkha, r ayyub, sardesai ji and their ilk.
to provoke and attract a response and be in the limelight and having 1000s read their opinions and BIF posts is what gets them pleased.
deny them your time and attention and twitter is what just a echo chamber where they will keep retweeting each other.

this is what the young social media RW crowd do not understand. they dont mind rebuttals of their inflamatory posts. its what they want.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 Feb 2019 10:20

Karan M wrote:^^ That's what the media reported. Do you have first hand info that's what occurred? If you are going by media reportage, all I can say is, dont.

just asking onlee, but how is a keyboard jehadi from the forum expected to have first hand knowledge of the goings on at a parliamentary committee??

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 23 Feb 2019 10:31

chetak wrote:
Karan M wrote:^^ That's what the media reported. Do you have first hand info that's what occurred? If you are going by media reportage, all I can say is, dont.
just asking onlee, but how is a keyboard jehadi from the forum expected to have first hand knowledge of the goings on at a parliamentary committee??

Saar, maybe they get the news via Kerala's finest flora...

la.khan · Post by **la.khan** » 23 Feb 2019 10:40

UlanBatori wrote:
The second way of addressing this asymmetry is to grow an unconventional force in Kashmir Valley that both collects information and assassinates jihadis.
Circa 2002 there was such an organization. Fortunately I cannot remember the name and I request that who do, forget it. I am sure nothing of the sort exists now, because there is no activity.

UB ji,

Kukka Parray @ Ikhwan. More sordid details from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikhwan_(Kashmir)

After the 1996 assembly elections, the Ikhwan-ul-Muslimeen fell upon hard days thanks to relentless propaganda campaigns sponsored by the Islamist groups. The group also felt undermined by public dislike of their ruthless tactics. The official cover for the armed group was stripped soon after by the Indian government which led to a huge spike in casualties. Ikhwan is expected to have lost over 150 members.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Feb 2019 11:40

Contrast that to how putin deftly used and still does ramzan kadyrov and native chechen and dagestani militias

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Feb 2019 11:43

News has emerged that 100 companies of paramil troops
Were airlifted to srinagar last night and a widespread rat hunt is on

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Feb 2019 11:44

100 cos is 10,000-12000 ppl

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Feb 2019 12:05

KaranM, Thanks for the great research post. Well done.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Feb 2019 12:21

SaiP
Thanks for the link.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 23 Feb 2019 12:29

KaranM, thank you. I am not sure if the troll "anjan" posting Congi propaganda learned anything from your post (you can't wake up someone who pretends to be sleeping).

However, I surely learned a lot. I am sure many others did too.

So there IS value in rebutting bullshit even if it has nothing to do with the originator of the bullshit himself.

Cheers.

la.khan · Post by **la.khan** » 23 Feb 2019 13:06

Singha wrote:Contrast that to how putin deftly used and still does ramzan kadyrov and native chechen and dagestani militias

Post 1996 would mean either HDDG or IKG wound up the group & threw them to the wolves. My money is on uber peacenik IKG

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 23 Feb 2019 13:07

^^ I fully second this. There is a lot I learned from simply lurking on BRF and reading stalwarts like Karan M's posts, and have been sharing whatever I learned with others wherever possible offline. Most of the time, people who hear these things end up appreciating our points, as they have no idea about the complexity of these issues. So such rebuttals do serve a purpose beyond the Vikram-Betal cycle of repeats.

BRF maybe called a forum, but is actually a university in disguise.

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 23 Feb 2019 13:40

https://twitter.com/KarFireDept/status/ ... 7500469248

Vehicles got fire at parking area of #AiroIndia show at Yalahanka. Fire fighters On the spot.@DGP_FIRE @SunilagarwalI @KarnatakaVarthe

Look at this video. This is planned sabotage. I shall term this second strike.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Feb 2019 14:19

more than 100 cars and bikes burned. suspect is dry grass, hot vehicles and hot dry winds and someone throwing a cig but could be shadow puppets too.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 23 Feb 2019 14:46

Just a noob question , does insurance pay 100% for such accidents ?

nam · Post by **nam** » 23 Feb 2019 14:48

The "shortage" issue has been discussed many times. There is a major standoff once every decade and we do tons of emergency purchases, never to be used in war.

Where do those ammo go? Do we think our services don't know there could war any time? We think our services waste off all the ammo in peace time and don't save them?

I presume there were "shortages" before Kargil as well? Where did the bombs dropped on kargil come from?

Shortage before Ops Parakram? So the entire army mobilized with not enough bombs?

The issue is political will. Not "we don't have ammo".

nam · Post by **nam** » 23 Feb 2019 14:53

On Trump's comment, looks like he has his finger in the pie. This would be good and bad. Bad because US will try to prevent us responding.

Good because, once we respond, Trump baba could be used to restrict Pak reaction by using the ceasefire/escalation carrot.

We strike and call for ceasefire. US will allow Pak few days to let off steam before ceasefire. We pound them hard during their retaliation.

US will then force Pak ceasefire.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 23 Feb 2019 15:19

IMHO, again!

We must reoccupy a piece of OUR Kashmir and hold it thereafter. It should be public seizure so that all can see thereafter what pukistan has lost. The puki army must be made to explain to its public why India still occupies something that was previously theirs. One must prepare for their efforts to do the same to us but prevail we MUST.

Such a venture imposes a visible and very public cost to their misadventures. All in all it will also put them on their back foot both strategically and tactically as they will be forced to rethink their entire border forces disposition and deployment with a view of what will we do if India takes more and more importantly force them to invest in ways to prevent such a future seizure.

All this notwithstanding the change of their public's perception of how their beloved army can and will protect them but more importantly destroy their internal reputation.

vivekmehta · Post by **vivekmehta** » 23 Feb 2019 16:38

Singha wrote:100 cos is 10,000-12000 ppl

1 company = 100- 120. Cant calculate much

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 Feb 2019 17:27

shyamd wrote:
The sonic booms and F16 flights over Sialkot and Lahore (both near border) was designed to test IA Air defence and identify SAM locations.

TSPA expecting GOI retaliation in the western sector (due to weather constraints in the east).

First official confirmation of above probing Indian air defences

Pak army chief visits LoC, F-16s f ..

Read more at:
https://m.timesofindia.com/world/pakist ... aign=cppst

GOI has communicated that it wants to see evidence given to FATF that TSP has frozen accounts.

Russian Deputy NSA arrived to discuss Pulwama.

One should note that the paramilitaries being brought in principle role is for border security and act as supplement to army.

nam · Post by **nam** » 23 Feb 2019 17:58

My personal view is more than land grab or showing PA it's place, I want IAF retaliation to become the norm.

More than straightening Pak, I want this incident to straighten up GOI. The next time PA carries out BAT action, I want a Spice or SAW flying towards a PA target within 30-60 minutes, irrespective of the party in power.

I want the NDA gov to atleast bomb a empty tent. This will set a precedent for any future UPA gov, so that we don't have to watch in pain like the in-action for 26/11.

Pak is not going anywhere, nor will it learn any lesson. We can grab land anytime, as PA will give us lot of opportunity.