Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

nam · Post by **nam** » 28 Feb 2019 21:53

Singha wrote:yeah here was our pilot, on the run from group of armed villagers and he would take time off to fatally shoot a wounded f16 pilot.

I can believe that.

It is false. The magazine recovered was still unused.

khan · Post by **khan** » 28 Feb 2019 21:54

anmol wrote:
nam wrote:So son of a big shot. Looks like zamindary is quite alive in PAF. Sons get in to F16s..
I don't see any confirmation of this "Wg Cdr Shahzaz Ud Din" story. Following is the twitter account where this story originated.
https://twitter.com/aditiya00021624

This sounds like someone’s overactive imagination. A downed pilot across enemy lines is looking for a hidey-hole to hangout in while waiting for extraction - not this crazy commando stuff from a 1980’s Rambo movie

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 28 Feb 2019 21:55

parshuram wrote:Came across this -> CAITC picture of capable of hosting AMMRAM. Can Any expert confirm?

https://twitter.com/snikhil1979/status/ ... 76066?s=12

PS: Not doubting IAF. Just asking out of curiosity.

Even Pakis state that is generic claim for AMRAAM class and ASRAAM class missile not AIm 120 series or AIM 132 series missiles.

Schmidt · Post by **Schmidt** » 28 Feb 2019 21:58

ACM Tipnis advocates breaking up of Pakistan and all round weakening of Pakistan in all spheres as the only long term strategy that would help

He says Pakistan is only interested in breaking up India and will not stop even if we give them Kashmir

They want to the dominant hegemon in South Asia

habal · Post by **habal** » 28 Feb 2019 22:00

Schmidt wrote:ACM Tipnis advocates breaking up of Pakistan and all round weakening of Pakistan in all spheres as the only long term strategy that would help

He says Pakistan is only interested in breaking up India and will not stop even if we give them Kashmir

They want to the dominant hegemon in South Asia

they are very dominant now.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 28 Feb 2019 22:01

chetak wrote:Smile boys, you are on paki camera.

Khalid khi @khalid_pk 22h22 hours ago

THE VERIFIED details of Indian Pilot, Wing Commander Abhi, captured alive by Pak forces after today's successful air combat

Is he a Wing Commander or Squadron Leader?

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 28 Feb 2019 22:06

abhijitm wrote:why civilian is introducing army officers?

That was MoD pro I think. Army iirc.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 28 Feb 2019 22:08

Some *nominal* Indians are mad at Dimran because he released our IAF officer without extracting any visible concession. They understand that it will be packaged as a Modi victory by the BJP.

Some are madder because Modi did NOT even mutter a word on the officer's capture nor beg for release and went about his daily bizzness but IT still happened. They are searching for an anyone except Modi to pin this victory on BUT their favorite Nehru chacha is long dead and Modi is on the seat. Poor souls what a major dilemma!

They can't digest that Modi's silence proved more forceful than all the previous government's forceful *dialogs*.

pralay · Post by **pralay** » 28 Feb 2019 22:15

This is video of Mohammad Yasin from PoJK, who personally aided the capture of Indian pilot wing Commander Abhinandan when who ejected his Mig 21 after being shot by paki ground fire or A2A missile and landed in PoJK.
In this video at 0:30 the witness Mohammad Yasin clearly states that 3 pilots came down two landed somewhere else and one landed near his house. The interviewer asks the number of pilots who ejected and witness again confirms same.
Yasin also confirms that Abhi fired some shots before being captured.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Feb 2019 22:19

SBajwa wrote:
chetak wrote:Smile boys, you are on paki camera.

Is he a Wing Commander or Squadron Leader?

Wing Commander

looks like he was promoted at sometime after the listing.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 28 Feb 2019 22:24

I am not going to search for Dimran's video and this guy is a big propagandist BUT note ...

https://twitter.com/MoeedNj/status/1101076650329100288

Moeed Pirzada Verified account @MoeedNj

PM Imran Khan just told the parliament that India was thinking of Missile attacks against Pakistan, on Wednesday night, but then situation was diffused - Did I tell you before that Modi is a psychopath and needs to be contained by some wise people around him

\
Speak softly but carry a big stick ... and use it once in a while to demonstrate its effectiveness.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Feb 2019 22:25

I would be worried if i were tsp.

Ibnlive

Prime Minister Narendra Modi Thursday appeared to be making a reference to India's air strikes on terror camps in Pakistan when he said a "pilot project" was recently carried out and now the "real one" has to be done as the earlier exercise was a practice.

Speaking at an award ceremony for scientists, he said, "You spend your life in laboratories. You have a tradition of first doing a pilot project. It is later scaled up. So recently a pilot project happened", as the audience burst into applause.

Modi continued, "Now the real one has to be done. Earlier one was a practice. And the real is to actually give a standing ovation to today's award winners. We will give a standing ovation.

DrRatnadip · Post by **DrRatnadip** » 28 Feb 2019 22:26

pralay wrote:
This is video of Mohammad Yasin from PoJK, who personally aided the capture of Indian pilot wing Commander Abhinandan when who ejected his Mig 21 after being shot by paki ground fire or A2A missile and landed in PoJK.
In this video at 0:30 the witness Mohammad Yasin clearly states that 3 pilots came down two landed somewhere else and one landed near his house. The interviewer asks the number of pilots who ejected and witness again confirms same.
Yasin also confirms that Abhi fired some shots before being captured.

Is it possible that they capture their own pilot?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 28 Feb 2019 22:27

Danger for TSPA is not over but action is on pause for the moment ... seems a lot of calling time is being used up.

Another way to interpret Modi is this time was a demo/pilot of what can be expected the next time. Sudhar jao warna next time the targets will be many more and nearer home and not some remote hill top.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Feb 2019 22:30

ArjunPandit wrote: I think every Indian post and article should mention AMERICAN-SUPPLIED, TERRORIST-OPERATED F-16, AMRAAM, etc.Funded by US taxpayers money too and Global war on terror!! We need to do this in a sustained fashion. BTW any chance yakherder eats teetar?

True, it's like the USAID logo on the diesel locomotives given to Sri Lanka Railways. I remember the emblem of the handshake and the US eagle:

FROM THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES, TO THE ISLAMIC TERRORISTS OF PAKISTAN, WITH OUR HARD-EARNED TAX DOLLARS AND COMPLIMENTS OF ROBIN RAPHAEL AND HILIARY CLINTON.

I have a further corrollary to add: While everyone knows that I am an ardent fan of the desi phoren sarbhij babucracy with its Terminological Exactitudes, think of the effect if the US and France were actually induced to take real action to remove the ability of their-supplied weapons to act against India - except inside the borders of Pakistan.

They would be down to using JF117 Bandars as raid packages

Dare we dream? Why not? India today can make a lot of things hang on whether the supplier also supplies terrorists to kill Indians.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Feb 2019 22:30

Weather is bad where it matters. That can be both good and bad.

SidSoma · Post by **SidSoma** » 28 Feb 2019 22:32

pankajs wrote:I am not going to search for Dimran's video and this guy is a big propagandist BUT note ...

https://twitter.com/MoeedNj/status/1101076650329100288
Moeed Pirzada Verified account @MoeedNj

PM Imran Khan just told the parliament that India was thinking of Missile attacks against Pakistan, on Wednesday night, but then situation was diffused - Did I tell you before that Modi is a psychopath and needs to be contained by some wise people around him
\
Speak softly but carry a big stick ... and use it once in a while to demonstrate its effectiveness.

Largest Pakistani combat Ship ......... PNS Alimgir weighing in at 4200 Tonnes
Largest Indian Combat Ship ......INS VikramAditya weighing in at 45200 Tonnes

It helps carrying a big stick would have loved to stick it up Karachi......and called it Karachi Bakery. Pity if it does not go into Naval domain

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 28 Feb 2019 22:36

Let's remember that one objective for us is to ensure that Unkil doesn't go back to his merry ways of continuing to fund the pakis.

Trump just returned empty handed from Vietnam. Of course he got played. How can a deal happen if the primary objective of the other party to ensure that a deal doesn't happen? Trump and in particular Foggy Bottom should be told that us dealing with Pakis is just like that.

Anyway, so Trump has nothing to show, so what does he do? Try to become a hero by preventing a nuclear holocaust, so you can be assured that he will try to get us to negotiate with the pakis.

This is where AMRAAM comes in. An "in your face" reminder to the yanks that (i) it is their nourishment which has given strength to the snake, (ii) that the snake is no longer listening to its master, (iii) that the snake should henceforth be starved and (iv) that we will not talk to the snake.

BTW, 2 days ago when I said Lockheed Martin would be pissed if Pakis fielded the F-16 at us and if it got shot down (as it certainly would as I said on the 26th and was proven correct), I got mocked here. Ghar ki murgi dal barabar, now random defence experts are putting the same fundas on teetar.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Feb 2019 22:39

Why does India need to use missiles I wonder. Every hi-value target is Spicy. That is the real message of Balakot. U can run but u cannot hide from a 1000kg hi-explosive punching thru ur bunker at Mach 0.5. This is why the Jarnails looked so glum.

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 28 Feb 2019 22:41

The MoD is tweeting some points from the Tri-service presser from earlier today..

Missed something before..

On 27Feb19 at around 1000hrs @IAF_MCC radars detected large package of Pakistan Air Force aircraft heading towards Indian territory.

They breached Indian airspace west of Rajauri in Sunderbani Area

The ingressing aircraft were observed to be at various levels.

@IAF_MCC fighters including MiG-21 Bison, Su-30MKI, Mirage-2000 were tasked to intercept the Pakistan Air Force aircraft

So they had a group of fighters (F16s / bundars) provide them top cover, Why did they not tangle? (The AVM in the presser made it very clear, that there were a mix of birds in the attacking flight: Falcons, Bundars and mirages)

My assumption is that as soon as they saw the IAF bring in the big dogs, they turned tail, except for the one who got caught in a fur ball with the Bison.

arvin · Post by **arvin** » 28 Feb 2019 22:42

Aim 120 c getting into the picture now is sure to effect LM chances of selling the pregnant pig F- 21 to iaf.
Anyway I cant imagine and able to fit F21 in any role on what has been done by our mig 21 bison, mirage and su 30 over the past 2 days.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Feb 2019 22:44

the indian CAPs would also be at various places in the air - location, height, fuel status, or on warm standby on ground and rushed to the intercept.
remember these intruders may not be bunched together but in small troops spread out over a long line. some obviously stayed back high and fast to provide AAM cover and one of these hit our bison, Abhi & his wingman seems to have disregarded their own life and pressed home his run until he got tone on his R73 missiles and may have fired more than one. these may be one of the few that crossed the border to release bombs.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Feb 2019 22:47

IIRC American mijjiles are set so that if a mijjile is fired inside the terrorist part of the LOC that is OK (probably the one that hit the WingCo's MiG). But the moment it crossed the Yellow Sea its guidance went bonkers. So much for Paki air raids: their AAMs won't work inside Indian airspace.

Once their planes enter Indian airspace they are s(h)itting turkeys.

Think about it: How else does a 1960s airplane like MiG-21 dodge an AIM as the wingman's plane did, hain?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Feb 2019 22:48

arvin wrote:Aim 120 c getting into the picture now is sure to effect LM chances of selling the pregnant pig F- 21 to iaf.
Anyway I cant imagine and able to fit F21 in any role on what has been done by our mig 21 bison, mirage and su 30 over the past 2 days.

its not a question of lockheed or raythen or northrop - its the GOTUS which funds the GOAT baksheesh and authorizes these sales.

US should be persona non grata in future fighter and missile buys by india, regardless of who is the OEM - it does not matter who is OEM.

some transport and helis we got, cannot escape that now, but no point handing good money over bad.

there has to be consequences and a message sent to gotus that they cannot party with both sides of the fence.

either be with us or against us. and third party wink wink transfers via turkey et al will also count. a lot of used F16s are going to get dumped on market due to JSF and PAF will look to recaptalize its f-16 numbers off that - it needs US permission even to sell old f16 as israel found to its cost lately

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Feb 2019 22:50

Singha wrote:I would be worried if i were tsp.

Ibnlive

Prime Minister Narendra Modi Thursday appeared to be making a reference to India's air strikes on terror camps in Pakistan when he said a "pilot project" was recently carried out and now the "real one" has to be done as the earlier exercise was a practice.

Speaking at an award ceremony for scientists, he said, "You spend your life in laboratories. You have a tradition of first doing a pilot project. It is later scaled up. So recently a pilot project happened", as the audience burst into applause.

Modi continued, "Now the real one has to be done. Earlier one was a practice. And the real is to actually give a standing ovation to today's award winners. We will give a standing ovation.

My God, if he does this, if he just OKs this.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 28 Feb 2019 22:52

Singha wrote:its not a question of lockheed or raythen or northrop - its the GOTUS which funds the GOAT baksheesh and authorizes these sales.
US should be persona non grata in future fighter and missile buys by india, regardless of who is the OEM - it does not matter who is OEM.
some transport and helis we got, cannot escape that now, but no point handing good money over bad.

there has to be consequences and a message sent to gotus that they cannot party with both sides of the fence.

either be with us or against us. and third party wink wink transfers via turkey et al will also count. a lot of used F16s are going to get dumped on market due to JSF and PAF will look to recaptalize its f-16 numbers off that - it needs US permission even to sell old f16 as israel found to its cost lately

That is not the way how conditioning works. Shutting the door means that the US can supply stuff willy-nilly to the Pakis as it did. The way you engage is to tell them that you will buy small batches every year provided they never sell, gift or permit 3rd party transfer of arms to the Pakis.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Feb 2019 22:53

UlanBatori wrote:IIRC American mijjiles are set so that if a mijjile is fired inside the terrorist part of the LOC that is OK (probably the one that hit the WingCo's MiG). But the moment it crossed the Yellow Sea its guidance went bonkers. So much for Paki air raids: their AAMs won't work inside Indian airspace. Once their planes enter Indian airspace they are s(h)itting turkeys.

Think about it: How else does a 1960s airplane like MiG-21 dodge an AIM as the wingman's plane did, hain?

UBJi, BVR missiles are not infallible. The seeker has to keep the target within its FOV, and if the target moves out of the FOV, the seeker has to re-acquire and can lose the track, especially if the firing aircraft is no longer around to help it. Or the guiding fighter (before the missile seeker switches on), has to run off because it has missiles coming up its tailpipe.

Second, that 1960's aircraft can carry this:
http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/7/27537.pdf

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Feb 2019 22:54

may I ask why exactly BRF is maintaining a database of serving IAF officers ?

SidSoma · Post by **SidSoma** » 28 Feb 2019 22:55

sudhan wrote:The MoD is tweeting some points from the Tri-service presser from earlier today..

Missed something before..

On 27Feb19 at around 1000hrs @IAF_MCC radars detected large package of Pakistan Air Force aircraft heading towards Indian territory.

They breached Indian airspace west of Rajauri in Sunderbani Area

The ingressing aircraft were observed to be at various levels.

@IAF_MCC fighters including MiG-21 Bison, Su-30MKI, Mirage-2000 were tasked to intercept the Pakistan Air Force aircraft

I am just surprised that with 24 enemy fighters, No BVRs were fired from our side. Is this because of our RoE?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Feb 2019 22:56

Yes was thinking the same how did the wingman dodged the AMRAAM C5, maneuvering jamming and bit of luck, this is close range fight so energy and maneuverability is not can issue for the missile , so pilot has to be agile and quick thinking

Well the R73 warhead does not explode in IAF exercise but does in real one

and the ejection seat works on 21

Now we need F-21

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 28 Feb 2019 22:57

I reiterate again for anyone with logic.

Why would PAF come with 24 aircraft against our Miltary installation looking to cause hundreds of casualties, unless they have been badly burned and can't be just some uniformed Jihadis, some higher ups in the Pak army have been vaporised. And the PAF strike failed i.e, PAF can't stop the IAF but the IAF can stop the PAF.

Regardless of what DG ISPR is saying the PA must be very disappointed with the PAF.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Feb 2019 23:01

Singha wrote:may I ask why exactly BRF is maintaining a database of serving IAF officers ?

That database has been removed.

nam · Post by **nam** » 28 Feb 2019 23:02

I think this is the wrekage of F16. That is the oval shaped air intake. There are holes near the intake, so R73 must have exploded near the intake. probably the pilots were already injured by the explosion.

SidSoma · Post by **SidSoma** » 28 Feb 2019 23:03

Karan M wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:IIRC American mijjiles are set so that if a mijjile is fired inside the terrorist part of the LOC that is OK (probably the one that hit the WingCo's MiG). But the moment it crossed the Yellow Sea its guidance went bonkers. So much for Paki air raids: their AAMs won't work inside Indian airspace. Once their planes enter Indian airspace they are s(h)itting turkeys.

Think about it: How else does a 1960s airplane like MiG-21 dodge an AIM as the wingman's plane did, hain?

UBji, recollecting the Old Cope India experience

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... -u-s-f-15s

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 28 Feb 2019 23:07

Austin wrote:Yes was thinking the same how did the wingman dodged the AMRAAM C5, maneuvering jamming and bit of luck, this is close range fight so energy and maneuverability is not can issue for the missile , so pilot has to be agile and quick thinking

Well the R73 warhead does not explode in IAF exercise but does in real one and the ejection seat works on 21

Now we need F-21

I think the wingman would ave been shot at in tail chase mode after Wing Commander Abhinandan had shot the F-16 and had been shot. In tail chase mode a full speed Mig-21 would be very difficult to hit

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 28 Feb 2019 23:08

Aditya_V wrote:I reiterate again for anyone with logic.

Why would PAF come with 24 aircraft against our Miltary installation looking to cause hundreds of casualties, unless they have been badly burned and can't be just some uniformed Jihadis, some higher ups in the Pak army have been vaporised.

It was attacked inside Pak....There will be Uniformed Jihadis!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Feb 2019 23:11

SidSoma wrote:I am just surprised that with 24 enemy fighters, No BVRs were fired from our side. Is this because of our RoE?

Perhaps they were. Perhaps before they could get into NEZ, the PAF fighters ran off.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Feb 2019 23:13

maybe some get together / leadership offsite / daura e khaas was ongoing with high ranking motivational speakers/ directors / SVP /VC types also having a sleepover and they "took one for the team" when the missiles arrived?

i hope the goatshed was left alone, the poor goats suffered enough atrocity already.

the TOI article next day mentioned the unpowered SPICE 1000 and the powered Popeye2 as the weapons released. the popeye being powered would arrive much faster, does not make sense - you want to make all of them arrive in one bunch for salvo effect

so the popeye2's may have been fired at other deeper targets in the region, shadow quad type high value mansions where big people had kept assets...

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Feb 2019 23:13

Austin wrote:Yes was thinking the same how did the wingman dodged the AMRAAM C5, maneuvering jamming and bit of luck, this is close range fight so energy and maneuverability is not can issue for the missile , so pilot has to be agile and quick thinking

Well the R73 warhead does not explode in IAF exercise but does in real one and the ejection seat works on 21

Now we need F-21

Again target needs to be within seeker FOV for the AMRAAM or any BVR missile to retain lock. Many things can happen for the lock to break and not be retained. Fighters with meter wide dishes lose lock!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Feb 2019 23:15

i believe the effective range of most BVR AAM is no more than 10-15 km against a tail chase supersonic target.