Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

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ArjunPandit
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by ArjunPandit »

if not anything few planes just dashing by the border here and there should be enough to spook them out.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

Singha wrote:
shynee wrote:Only seven people knew of the timing of air strike on Balakot - HT
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... VvOxL.html
generally truth is best in the first few hours of any incident like this.

>> and Heron drones for photographing the targets after the attack

this clearly indicates that targets closer to the border ie muzaffarabad and chakothi were struck by same pkg. infact that morning either newsx or india today were showing details of strike1, strike2, strike3 with time windows starting from 3:45 and ending around 4:05

there is no way a heron drone can fly 100km into a alert TSP after the strike and photograph anything.
Maybe the IAF Mig25 should be brought out of retirement and refurbished? Need it now more than ever. After Brasstacks in 1987, IIRC a Mig25 did recon on Pak forward areas and operated with impunity.
Last edited by Mort Walker on 01 Mar 2019 10:24, edited 1 time in total.
Rakesh
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

:lol: :rotfl:

Lal Topi is having a conniption fit over the release of Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman. What a joker. See for a good laugh....

https://twitter.com/IndusEyes/status/11 ... 8403024897 ---> Imran being cursed in Pakistan.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by naird »

Austin wrote:
naird wrote:Folks - this may have been answered. Abhinandan was a Su 30 pilot, how come he was piloting Mig 21 ? I mean i have heard pilots graduating themselves to better machine but havent heard pilots getting re-assigned to fly older machines. Is this norm ?
Promotion , He might well be an ASTE Pilot or a Trainer for Bison or got promoted some other way

Winco Sahil Gandhi flew Su-30 for a long time before he moved to Surya Kiran
Good point about wing co Sahil Gandhi. Had missed that. Makes sense
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by wig »

86 seconds of dogfight at 900 kmph
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 36286.html

the entire combat took about 86 seconds and the Pak F 16 was successfully targeted with a missile
extracts
“I am going after him,” the Wing Commander said over the secure radio to his mates flying in the patrol. With this started an 86-second intense chase in the sky — called dogfight or close combat in military parlance — at a speed of 1 km in 4 seconds, roughly 900 km per hour.

The two pilots were literally eye to eye and trying to get a “lock” for the missile to home in. An air-to-air missile called “R-73” was fired from the MiG. The dogfight rose to an elevation of 26,000 feet and then swooped down a few thousand feet and then rose again.
Both pilots were trying to get a ‘lock’— 60° angle, in air force parlance.” This angle provides the widest spectrum to be hit by a missile, explained a pilot. The IAF plane was hit by a missile fired by another pilot. He was by then a couple of kms on the other side of the LoC.

The entire thing was being tracked through an airborne radar. The Wing Commander’s mates flying the Sukhoi- 30 MKI and Mirage 2000 in patrol were busy chasing away other intruding PAF jets. The Wing Commander ejected at a fairly high altitude. He did so after judging that the plane could not be recovered. The parachutes fighter pilots adorn are not manoeuvrable and the wind draft took him at least 7 km on to the Pakistan side. “All this took around 86 seconds,” said a top source.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by wig »

Frustrated by air raids, Pak targets civilians; uses Howitzer artillery fires
http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/frustrate ... ery-fires/

extracts
after suffering heavy losses in air strikes by India, Pakistan army today activated almost all major sectors on the Line of Control (LoC) in twin border districts of Poonch and Rajouri pounding forward posts of the troops and civilian areas with long range mortars, 105 mm Howitzer guns and heavy fire arms, killing a girl and injuring two others including an Army soldier, who had come to his house on leave.
It was virtually a war-like situation in most parts of the LoC especially Mendhar, Mankote, Balakote, Khari Karmara and Degwar sectors of Poonch district and Nowshera and Sunderbani sectors in Rajouri district, where mortar shells fired by Pakistan troops landed deep inside the civilian areas, spreading panic and fear among the people, who confined themselves to houses or bunkers.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Mort Walker wrote:
Singha wrote:
generally truth is best in the first few hours of any incident like this.

>> and Heron drones for photographing the targets after the attack

this clearly indicates that targets closer to the border ie muzaffarabad and chakothi were struck by same pkg. infact that morning either newsx or india today were showing details of strike1, strike2, strike3 with time windows starting from 3:45 and ending around 4:05

there is no way a heron drone can fly 100km into a alert TSP after the strike and photograph anything.
Maybe the IAF Mig25 should be brought out of retirement and refurbished? Need it now more than ever. After Brasstacks in 1987, IIRC a Mig25 did recon on Pak forward areas and operated with impunity.
What can the combat do that a satellite cannot?
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Ganesh_S »

abhijitm wrote:
Ganesh_S wrote:
Chaiwala didn't name the fighter that shot down jft. Says will become evident once the evidence is released. Matters have to be kept under wraps now.
Please don't spread rumors or unconfirmed stories. IAF is highly professional institution and if then down an enemy plane or even there was an engagement they will come and openly state it. There is no need to hide. Military engagement is not a collateral damage.

There is nothing unprofessional in holding back information. I believe that was done for some reasons as mentioned by a few. Anyways, i have no doubt on the integrity of my source. Take it or leave it
Last edited by Ganesh_S on 01 Mar 2019 10:39, edited 1 time in total.
arun
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by arun »

X Posted from the India-US relations: News and Discussions IV thread.

Let us see if the US is going to continue to turn a Nelsons Eye to multiple cases stretching over decades of the use of US supplied weapons to the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan being used against India despite pious US and Pakistani declarations that these weapons were not for use against India but rather exclusively for War of Terror purposes presumably against an Al Qaida and other Islamic Terrorist group Air Forces rendered invisible by use of a Klingon Cloaking device and what not:

India sharing F-16 evidence with America
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Philip »

ACM Tipnis on tv right now.Why a massive formation of 24 aircraft plus certainly more in support? It was not to attack a brigade or batallion HQ so close to the border where arty. could possibly reach.It was most probably to target targets afar such as Srinagar and Awantipur he suggesred.ACM Tipnis after Kargil wanted the sqd. strength bd raised to 55 sqds but we're down to 30+.We have no strategic picture says he.

The release of the gallant wingvo should not obscure the larger picture- our ultimate strategic objective in eliminating terrorism based in Pak ...or suffer thr consequences.Thus far we have lavked thd resolve to do so.Boycotts do not work u less applied as was done to S.Africa by the intl. community.

We must stop all cultural, sports, economic and other activities.There are a lot of v.intelligent mature people in Pak, who are in a minority but they must also be engaged to effect change in Pak from within
( ACM Tipnis retd.).

Problem in India today.Unlike in Pak, where the army calls the shots, the voice of the Indian armed forces is not being heard as much as it should! "Pak is a dog whose tail India is trying to straighten" :rotfl:

"f we don't have a strategic plan we will always remain at sq. 1".
Last edited by Philip on 01 Mar 2019 10:43, edited 1 time in total.
Singha
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

my initial thoughts are that some things will get pushed through now
- huge interest/push to get smart gliding and PGM weapons projects FOC'ed - saaw, garuda, garuthma, Sant, helina - the very limited number of paveway2, spice, griffin, popeye kept for a few elite squadrons does not hack it on cost and inventory.
- the hawks will get armed with such standoff weapons as cheap force multipliers - and they will train for it, rather than rigged for emergency.
- might invest in few more EMB145 AWACS......CAG and court ummah willing - we need them fast, cannot wait for ponderous movements on A330 front
- more large refuelers - the MRTT might happen
- more interest/push on Tejas because we are going to need lots of QRT interceptors for a constant 'hot peace' - there is no need for QRT units in south, the Sulur unit might be moved to frontline postings while some other squadron formates
- more interest/push in EW equipment for all ,not just the elites
- massive production run of AStra1 and fast push to Astra2 and SFDR.
- perhaps 36 more rafale
- brahmos-NG (air launched) and nirbhay will attract big money to beef up numbers.

escalation by air gives us the flexibility to totally mask our movements, turn the tap on or off at will and deep reach into TSP and Tibet.
"signaling" via deployment of strike corps (like seen in TSPA tanks marching through sialkot bazar) has run its course.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by hanumadu »

It appears that pakistan did not consider India to escalate to missile strikes before yesterday and that could be the reason they went ahead with their airforce incursions into India. Only when India made it clear that it won't hesitate to use missiles, did pakistan started shaking in their boots.

What is it that they are so afraid of missile strikes? How does missiles alter the scenario? Perhaps, a naval war was also threatened?
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

^^ missiles can knock out their POL stores - 600km brahmos range in hi-hi-lo mode.

without adequate POL, even the mighty F22 is a paperweight.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by habal »

Ganesh_S wrote: There is nothing unprofessional in holding back information. I believe that was done for some reasons as mentioned by a few. Anyways, i have no doubt on the integrity of my source. Take it or leave it
You said what you heard. Do not care for tone and tenor of replies all the time. All these are data points that one can keep in mind while building the big picture. It will be filed for reference one way or another and its veracity will be proven over time.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Philip »

Pl.read my notes on ACM Tipnis' interview on NewsX.
There was more to the PAF attack than meets the eyes.

PS: Tipnis. Full marks to the PM for carrying out his normal duties, business as usual EVEN if their is a severe military crisis afoot.It shows confidence in his subordinates and the armed forces and great maturity.
Last edited by Philip on 01 Mar 2019 10:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by khan »

hanumadu wrote:It appears that pakistan did not consider India to escalate to missile strikes before yesterday and that could be the reason they went ahead with their airforce incursions into India. Only when India made it clear that it won't hesitate to use missiles, did pakistan started shaking in their boots.

What is it that they are so afraid of missile strikes? How does missiles alter the scenario? Perhaps, a naval war was also threatened?
My theory is, they too would have to respond with missile strikes, their missiles have very bad accuracy and it would be exposed.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Singha wrote:^^ missiles can knock out their POL stores - 600km brahmos range in hi-hi-lo mode.

without adequate POL, even the mighty F22 is a paperweight.
Exactly. For anyone who does not know what POL is....Petroleum, Oil, & Lubricants.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

panch deen ka hi to stock hai and IN can close krachi shipping like a tap on few hours notice ... so....

they are going to have to spend money again to build some reserves and storages ... more stress on economy ... the begging bowl will be out soon for this. PAF ke naam pe dede baba

Imran bhai is apparently going to meet top 150 taxpayers soon for some shakedown act.

PM Imran to meet top taxpayers next week
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1911396/1- ... next-week/
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Bharadwaj »

Mort Walker wrote:
Maybe the IAF Mig25 should be brought out of retirement and refurbished? Need it now more than ever. After Brasstacks in 1987, IIRC a Mig25 did recon on Pak forward areas and operated with impunity.
I think we were offered new built 31s by the Russians around the time of the 25 retirement.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by khan »

Rakesh wrote:
Singha wrote:^^ missiles can knock out their POL stores - 600km brahmos range in hi-hi-lo mode.

without adequate POL, even the mighty F22 is a paperweight.
Exactly. For anyone who does not know what POL is....Petroleum, Oil, & Lubricants.
Yes. That sounds right. But this would be total war.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Philip »

Nein freund, POL stands for " Paki Orifices Lambasted!
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

Bharadwaj wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:
Maybe the IAF Mig25 should be brought out of retirement and refurbished? Need it now more than ever. After Brasstacks in 1987, IIRC a Mig25 did recon on Pak forward areas and operated with impunity.
I think we were offered new built 31s by the Russians around the time of the 25 retirement.
pretty priceless for mach3 rattle the cage ops and people in a constant state of paranoia and anxiety about our intentions.
we should get a few even second hand from their stock. all it needs to do is be airworthy :D
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by rkhanna »

Henry Jones via elint news and Nathan Ruser claim that IAF strike against balakot was ineffectual. They have seen the sat imagery coming in. Any credibility?

Is that why the AF Yesterday said BDA was still going on ?
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Katare »

Next couple of days are going to be tough on jingos. By returning Wg Com Abhinandan unconditionally Pak has bought a couple of days respite.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Kashi »

rkhanna wrote:Henry Jones via elint news and Nathan Ruser claim that IAF strike against balakot was ineffectual. They have seen the sat imagery coming in. Any credibility?
Have they posted the imagery?
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Austin »

Kashi wrote:
rkhanna wrote:Henry Jones via elint news and Nathan Ruser claim that IAF strike against balakot was ineffectual. They have seen the sat imagery coming in. Any credibility?
Have they posted the imagery?
Aljazeera has been shown some sites which paki claim as infectual strike

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/ ... 58957.html
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

Karan M wrote:
Rishi_Tri wrote:
Punjabi Ordoo

Bearded guy - Aman Yaseen - claims to have spotted / caught the pilot first. He was at his home while there was heavy shelling being done. He saw three chutes drop. Two went away and they caught the third in wooded area, controlled him and handed over to army. Caught pilot had pistol and they beat him up. He also got bloodied in the process. Per him, caught pilot was Sikh. Ends with the video guy saying, this is bravado of India falling flat. Name of the place ... Kotla something.. could not figure out more..
Thanks Rishi!

The man they ended up in a fistfight with was clearly WingCo Abhinandan.. they took his facial hair to mean he was Sikh.

So they saw 2 more chutes drop. Yep. F-16x 2 seater it is.
Sorry if already posted, but another thing this guy said that "blood on his shirt was the pilot's blood " -- when asked about how the blood spot on Yaseen came... did the pilot used his gun ? ,,. Yaseen replied NO.. the spot came on his shirt because the pilot's head touched his solder.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by khan »

Austin wrote:
Kashi wrote:
Have they posted the imagery?
Aljazeera has been shown some sites which paki claim as infectual strike

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/ ... 58957.html
from that article
Al Jazeera was unable to visit the site of the school.
If that school is pristine and undamaged, why aren't the Pakistani's giving everyone guided tours of that "school" and salvaging a lot of H&D?
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Patni »

IMHO we are now in post "Indo-Paki military balance is must for world peace" era. India has nothing to lose and everything to gain from bursting big holes into paper tiger that uses terror for low risk war of thousand cuts. We have now made it a very High Risk gamble for pakis. Unless they do a very public course correction, on the double, they are pushed along the path to graduating from terror supporting country to terrorist country. India has got this paki stone rolling downhill!
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Kashi »

All that can be seem in that article is a signboard "[that] indicates the way to the Madrassa Taleem al-Quran, a Jaish-e-Muhammad religious school located near the bombing sites" and a few craters.

The site itself is no where to be seen.
Last edited by Kashi on 01 Mar 2019 11:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Ganesh_S »

Singha wrote:panch deen ka hi to stock hai and IN can close krachi shipping like a tap on few hours notice ... so....

they are going to have to spend money again to build some reserves and storages ... more stress on economy ... the begging bowl will be out soon for this. PAF ke naam pe dede baba

Imran bhai is apparently going to meet top 150 taxpayers soon for some shakedown act.

PM Imran to meet top taxpayers next week
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1911396/1- ... next-week/
This would be serious blow to their current account deficit. IMO this opportunity has been lost until further provocation which is not likely in near time. IK cant afford an lenders crisis.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

here is a feral congi lapdog pushing his master's lootyens line


Tehseen Poonawalla Verified account @tehseenp


More Tehseen Poonawalla Retweeted

My sources confirm this is Air Force wing Commander Abhinandan . Enough of this nonsense now. Get down to talking peace between both countries and we want Abhinandan back. The govt needs to talk to us NOW !!! https://twitter.com/pid_gov/status/1100678009474953217

Tehseen Poonawalla added,
This Tweet is unavailable.
1:06 am - 27 Feb 2019
Austin
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Austin »

Cheers, claps for pilot #AbhinandanVarthaman's parents on flight to Delhi

https://twitter.com/ndtv/status/1101339865935802368
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Kakarat »

I would not believe anything coming out of the tour organised by the TSP army, they could have dropped a coupe of bombs in the area of there liking and create a new story
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Austin »

More Images here done by DFRLab .......Seems no impact

https://medium.com/dfrlab/surgical-stri ... 6cda834b24
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Austin »

GOI should release pre and post impact sat image .......IAF said yesterday they have evidence of the strike but it is up to GOI when to release
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

watch the video
Jatish Tyagi @JatishTyagi

Proof of an F-16 being shot down. 2 Pilots have ejected. You can even hear sound of 2 distinct and simultaneous ejections. Indian MiG-21 which was shot down was single seater. This F-16 looks like PAFs twin seater variant. Also do listen to the conversation of locals in the video




https://twitter.com/JatishTyagi/status/ ... 3368768512
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by harish_ch »

Sirji...I have seen this news earlier...but how credible is this DFR lab?
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Katare »

As for as I know, we have not seen any images of that madrassa compound. No journalist have been allowed anywhere near it either. No interview with students or moulanas/trainers have been aired by any ofcthe Pakistani TV channels. If the target is intact why not show it to the world.

IAF hadn’t disclosed how many bombs it dropped, so it is possible that the madrassa was destroyed but a few bombs strayed from their targets and landed in nearby forest.

Since they would have carried more bombs than needed so some mirages may have dumped them (who wants to lug around a heavy 1 ton bomb on sprint back home) to lighten up once they saw enemy aircraft approaching.

So it is possible that the target was obliterated and additional bombs were dropped/fell in the near by forest. Both Indian and Pakistan claims could be true. Unfortunately Indian authorities are tight lipped and Pakistan is showing its side in a bikini.
Last edited by Katare on 01 Mar 2019 11:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by khan »

Austin wrote:GOI should release pre and post impact sat image .......IAF said yesterday they have evidence of the strike but it is up to GOI when to release
To me this is just another datapoint that shows that GOI is not even close to being done with the Pakistani's. They don't give a s**t about optics, because when they are done, a blind man will not miss what they have done.

Many folks are thinking that this is the Vajpayee or MMS govt that had long briefing sessions with big pictures with colored circles all over them - but this Government doesn't give a s**t about optics.

IMO Releasing the Wing-Commander might have postponed the inevitable by a day or so.
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