Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

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khan
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by khan »

saip wrote:OK. Everything back to normal it seems. An Airindia plane from Tel Aviv to Delhi is over Karachi now.
Their airspace is still closed to transiting flights (and all routes near their eastern border). I just check the NOTAA.

This is a bug on the website I think.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Gus »

Lots of speculation of cheif pig Masood dead.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

Atmavik wrote:sorry to bring politics into this thread but looks like D'Imaran khan Niazi's goose is cooked. wait for the calls of Yahoodi Aagent soon.
the paki liars are active all over.

Now these losers are claiming that an Indian Su 30 was shot down and that is why two crew ejected
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by komal »

khan wrote:
saip wrote:OK. Everything back to normal it seems. An Airindia plane from Tel Aviv to Delhi is over Karachi now.
Their airspace is still closed to transiting flights (and all routes near their eastern border). I just check the NOTAA.

This is a bug on the website I think.
You are correct on the NOTAM. To me, it looks like an intentional FU from the kafirs to the PAF.

Update 01MAR 1100Z: Pakistan FIRs remain closed to overflights until 04MAR 0800Z. Specific routes have been opened for flights to/from four airports: OPKC/Karachi, OPPS/Peshawar, OPQT/Quetta and OPIS/Islamabad.

https://ops.group/blog/pakistan-india/
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by John »

Gus wrote:Lots of speculation of cheif pig Masood dead.
Yea It looks like most of leadership is a goner one of reasons you haven’t seen any recordings from any of them. Pakistan will claim he died “naturally” in a week or so.
Last edited by John on 03 Mar 2019 07:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by ranneel »

Saars..I propose a new scale for the world's first combined measure of foolishness and faux pas as the Qureshi scale in honor of makdoom shah... into the prestigious journals of BRF.
This nanha mujahid is a bit worried that this idea may already be patented based on the equally possible RG scale.Please advise.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by souravB »

khan wrote: Yes, we can have fine intellectual discussions about things that will change - and many things will change now for the better.

While training and equipment surely played a role in driving off the Baki’s - this time - luck also had a huge part in it. Driving them off doesn’t change the fact they will learn their lessons and be back, more dangerous than last time - and the luck might not be as good next time, so they might actually cause some damage next time.

Driving off intruders and waiting for them to come back isn’t good policy.

They need a response to be deterred from ever trying this again. If they lost 1 F-16 squadron, 1 Mirage 3 squadron, 1 Mirage 5 squadron, 1 JF-17 Thunder squadron, one Ammo dump and one brigade headquarters (dump & brigade HQ were their intended targets) - that will make sure the next time the IAF kicks them, they will go whimpering away like good stray dogs.

I hope Prime Minister Modi understands this. It is very dangerous to let Pakis climb the esclatkry ladder like this and not match their escalation.

Leaving things like this is an invitation for them to come back the next time India takes out a terrorist target in Pakistan - and next time India might not be as lucky.

The current situation is completely unacceptable - intellectual “feel good” rationalizations aside.
Sorry but entirety of your argument leads me to believe you want to win the SM war.
Why do you think if we do all you proscribe, it will deter them? If they haven't deterred when our army had chai-biskoot in Lahore, how come loss of a few squadrons will deter them?
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by vasu raya »

From Pulwama to Balakot: A new Line of Control
New Delhi also believed that Beijing would not react negatively as long as Chinese interests, including its infrastructure, and personnel who are part of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, were not targeted. “Any limited, coercive action, that does not hamper Chinese interests, would not invite retaliation from China,” a South Block official said.
A top official told The Sunday Express, “By striking in KPK, India made the LoC and the International Border irrelevant when it comes to cross-border strikes.” According to him, “More than the casualty numbers and damage, what matters most is that you were able to hit them inside their country, and that is a huge strategic achievement.”
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by khan »

souravB wrote:Sorry but entirety of your argument leads me to believe you want to win the SM war.
Why do you think if we do all you proscribe, it will deter them? If they haven't deterred when our army had chai-biskoot in Lahore, how come loss of a few squadrons will deter them?
Because they don’t have the ability to consistently absorb the loses I proscribed - therefore they will not do this again. Two or three more such mis-adventures and they will not have an air force left. This is the “Doval Doctrine” and this is what is playing out.
Last edited by khan on 03 Mar 2019 07:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by ranneel »

Amber G. wrote:
ranneel wrote: The great magician Feynman once said ....
I am ancient enough to actually listen Feynman in person and one of the quote which impressed me, and he used it quite often was:
What do you care what other people think ..You have no responsibility to live up to what other people think you ought to accomplish. (I have no responsibility to be like they expect me to be. It's their mistake, not my failing -- something to that effect)

I for one, am glad that Modi/GOI/Indian Forces are not "caring" about what other silly experts (like talking heads, NYTimes editorials, etc) and doing what they think ought to be done.
It has been sort of long time, since 1971, when India forces are showing us what they are capable of, when civil government trusts them and has their back.
My envious greetings...again what the GoI did now are..
Feynman: "Perfectly reasonable deviations from the beaten path"
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by A_Gupta »

hanumadu wrote:
Guddu wrote:Can anyone pl. post the co-ordinates of the Balakot JEM site, please
No body knows for sure, where the JEM site is, only guesses based on imagery from google maps/earth. Watch the below video for coordinates. They appear at the bottom as the focus shifts to the location.
.....
As shown in the youtube, that would be near Pakistan Scouts Cadet College, Batrasi, just to the north-east of it. Per Google Earth most of that structure has been there since as far back as Google Earth hi-resolution goes, which is 2001.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by souravB »

khan wrote:
Because they don’t have the ability to consistently absorb the loses I proscribed - therefore they will not do this again. Two or three more such mis-adventures and they will not have an air force left. This is the “Doval Doctrine” and this is what is playing out.
It is naivety at best to think this. We can have peace for some time, till they are begging from the world. Once they have enough resources, they will do it again and the cycle will continue. Remember, their armed forces do not go to war, they go for jihad.
Once you take away logic from their existence, out goes the deterrence by punitive measures.
Ways that remain are
1. deterrence by denial
2. deterrence by pre-emption
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by CRamS »

YashGJi, do you doubt Francesca's reports based on eyewitness accounts? Even 'grandma' Praveen Swami endorses her report.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by khan »

souravB wrote:
khan wrote:
Because they don’t have the ability to consistently absorb the loses I proscribed - therefore they will not do this again. Two or three more such mis-adventures and they will not have an air force left. This is the “Doval Doctrine” and this is what is playing out.
It is naivety at best to think this. We can have peace for some time, till they are begging from the world. Once they have enough resources, they will do it again and the cycle will continue. Remember, their armed forces do not go to war, they go for jihad.
Once you take away logic from their existence, out goes the deterrence by punitive measures.
Ways that remain are
1. deterrence by denial
2. deterrence by pre-emption
Yes. I am glad we can agree on the red stuff.

The power & economic asymmetry will keep growing so begging will only take them so far. They are done - they just don’t know it yet.

India just needs leadership with Cajones to use the leverage India already has. It seems like India finally has such leadership.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Guddu »

Looks like a noob. One could make an orange circle anywhere!
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Ardeshir »

What am I missing here, why are even experienced/retired Faujis asking us to reveal 'evidence' of attacks? Wouldn't this gent know about how revealing such 'evidence' could give away capabilities to the Bakis? :roll:
https://www.rediff.com/news/column/less ... 190302.htm
Lessons IAF must learn from this week's missions
March 02, 2019 09:40 IST
'It is my opinion that not releasing the Balakote Battle Damage Assessment immediately post strike was a phenomenal blunder, perception battle wise,' says Group Captain Murli Menon (retd), India's former air adviser in Pakistan.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by souravB »

khan wrote: Yes. I am glad we can agree on the red stuff.

The power & economic asymmetry will keep growing so begging will only take them so far. They are done - they just don’t know it yet.

India just needs leadership with Cajones to use the leverage India already has. It seems like India finally has such leadership.
The red part was never in disagreement. All I contested was to achieve that red part without putting our people into unnecessary danger while wasting punitive measures to stick a thumb rather than meeting policy goals.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by darshhan »

souravB wrote:
khan wrote:
Because they don’t have the ability to consistently absorb the loses I proscribed - therefore they will not do this again. Two or three more such mis-adventures and they will not have an air force left. This is the “Doval Doctrine” and this is what is playing out.
It is naivety at best to think this. We can have peace for some time, till they are begging from the world. Once they have enough resources, they will do it again and the cycle will continue. Remember, their armed forces do not go to war, they go for jihad.
Once you take away logic from their existence, out goes the deterrence by punitive measures.
Ways that remain are
1. deterrence by denial
2. deterrence by pre-emption
This is actually called Hudna, where you seek temporary ceasefire to regroup and regrow your strength.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Bishwa »

YashG wrote:Actual Satellite Image analysis of Strike on Jaba Top, Balakote
The full analysis ( has this been posted?)
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/were- ... -approval/

The bad news is that this piece of evidence doesn't go in our favor but it looks a very solid piece of evidence. Anything we have that refutes this?
The report you quote says " India claimed that the facility, roughly 10 kilometres into Pakistani-administered Kashmir and near the town of Jaba, was largely destroyed, resulting in the death of hundreds of militants."

Tells you something about its quality. It was definitely much > 10 km into POK. Also the area does not correspond to what shiv put out in his analysis https://youtu.be/DCLl5jmElBQ
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by schinnas »

Bishwa wrote:
YashG wrote:Actual Satellite Image analysis of Strike on Jaba Top, Balakote
The full analysis ( has this been posted?)
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/were- ... -approval/

The bad news is that this piece of evidence doesn't go in our favor but it looks a very solid piece of evidence. Anything we have that refutes this?
The report you quote says " India claimed that the facility, roughly 10 kilometres into Pakistani-administered Kashmir and near the town of Jaba, was largely destroyed, resulting in the death of hundreds of militants."

Tells you something about its quality. It was definitely much > 10 km into POK. Also the area does not correspond to what shiv put out in his analysis https://youtu.be/DCLl5jmElBQ
The author is of Paki origin despite his western sounding name. They got the location wrong....they used the coordinates or where Baki army said IAF hit trees. Not the location of hit claimed by India. A low grade biased article.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by John »

Azar Brother had already confirmed the hit and said it was not hq.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Kashi »

Of course not, JeM HQ is in Bahwalpur, Balakote was the prime training camp.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by khan »

Deleted - this needs to reformulated
Last edited by khan on 03 Mar 2019 09:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Philip »

Will Bahwalpur now be evacuated? Surely its not going to survive in the future should Pak continue with its terror.

However, there is a need for analysing Paki motives right from the suicide attack, which needs to be debated in the strat. page.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

YashG wrote:
CRamS wrote:YashGJi, do you doubt Francesca's reports based on eyewitness accounts? Even 'grandma' Praveen Swami endorses her report.
I'm trying to make sense of information I come across. My question by posting above article was - do we have something that refutes this. I cant refute an article only because I hope it is wrong. I came here looking for refuting info. I got that. The fact that this is not jaba top - is a very good pointer.
Go to VKThakur's timeline.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Raveen »

YashG wrote:
CRamS wrote:YashGJi, do you doubt Francesca's reports based on eyewitness accounts? Even 'grandma' Praveen Swami endorses her report.
I'm trying to make sense of information I come across. My question by posting above article was - do we have something that refutes this. I cant refute an article only because I hope it is wrong. I came here looking for refuting info. I got that. The fact that this is not jaba top - is a very good pointer.
Yes we do, multiple things, posted in this thread, go find them
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by John »

Not trying to win some friends here by posting this. I asked in my post if we've got something that refutes this.
Posts above have given two reasons that cast aspersions - #1 This is not the actual jaba top #2 Author is of pakistani origin.
Author uses the photos displayed by Pakistan that shows some trees damaged and overlays with sat image and says that’s were it hits. Unless you have access to latest sat image or go confirm the buildings were not damaged how can you say that? Aljazera already removed their article from front page since strike has been confirmed.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by durairaaj »

YashG wrote:
Raveen wrote:
Regurgitating previously cited and debunked articles won't win you many friends here - read before you post bud, been dismissed previously
Not trying to win some friends here by posting this. I asked in my post if we've got something that refutes this.
...
How about both sides are correct.
3 mirages actually attacked the site and each carries 3 bombs of the size mentioned.
4 hitting the trees as tweeted by DGISPR.
5 hitting the actual camps. So far the pakis have not shown the actual JeM camp sites to any neutral observers.
So, both sides are running with their own versions of facts.

If these bombs are image guided the last released ones have obsured vision because of the blowout from the first salvo. So, all the bombs might not have reached the spot at the smae instant. This is also confirmed by the civilians who claimed to have heard 4~5 distinct blasts.
Last edited by durairaaj on 03 Mar 2019 09:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by essay »

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Mihaylo »

CRamS wrote:
Sumeet wrote:Guys please watch Modi ji's *entire* speech in India Today conclave. Lots of great points. Look at people's reactions to various parts of his speech and you will be relieved of the tension/high BP caused by seeing absolutely low behavior from certain folks on SM.
Don't mean to exaggerate or be emotional, but I must have done some good Karma in my past life to even witness that India would have such a giant leader.
Amen to that. We all do :)
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by John »

durairaaj wrote:
YashG wrote:
Not trying to win some friends here by posting this. I asked in my post if we've got something that refutes this.
...
How about both sides are correct.
3 mirages actually attacked the site and each carries 3 bombs of the size mentioned.
4 hitting the trees as tweeted by DGISPR.
5 hitting the actual camps. So far the pakis have not shown the actual JeM camp sites to any neutral observers.
So, both sides are running with their own versions of facts.
There were 3 hits in the trees not 4? I believe these may be smaller munitions or fuel tank that was dropped after the bombing run. 1000 kg will do far more damage that, just look up IDF strikes in Syria.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by YashG »

durairaaj wrote:
YashG wrote:
Not trying to win some friends here by posting this. I asked in my post if we've got something that refutes this.
...
How about both sides are correct.
3 mirages actually attacked the site and each carries 3 bombs of the size mentioned.
4 hitting the trees as tweeted by DGISPR.
5 hitting the actual camps. So far the pakis have not shown the actual JeM camp sites to any neutral observers.
So, both sides are running with their own versions of facts.

If these bombs are image guided the last released ones have obscured vision because of the blowout from the first salvo. So, all the bombs might not have reached the spot at the smae instant. This is also confirmed by the civilians who claimed to have heard 4~5 distinct blasts.
:) Maybe. Just makes me happy if I can believe in my head that we did the damage. So as long as that article can be refuted/invalidated, I'm at peace. :D
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by souravB »

khan wrote: Honestly, I don’t see the point in getting into an intellectual discussion with you about “unnecessary danger” - But maybe we should ask the families of all the people who have died from terrorist attacks since 1990 if:

blowing up a few squadrons of planes that will atleast allow for some retaliation w/o PAF interference (and might even buy a few years of peace as you youself conceded) is worth the “unnecessary danger”.

I am sure everyone here will it’s worth the risk of replacing a few SU-30’s (if which India has 200+).
Then please don't get into an intellectual discussion if you either have selectively read my earlier post or selectively understood it.
A Su30 can be replaced but the man behind the machine cannot. Risking a $60M equipment is understandable but what I don't understand is risking the man behind the machine just so you can win a debate on twitter?
I thank God our forces/gov do not think like this. Their statement include word like Pre-emptive and not Punitive.
some points to ponder
  • Killing somebody in punitive action does not bring back the dead nor does it take the pain away, but taking action pre-emptively does save lives.
  • Sacrificing even one life on top of already lost ones always count as loss.
  • Dying for the sake of revenge is how jihadis are riled.
  • There are other ways to bring down an a/c even if we take out whole PAF.
Let's agree to disagree and disengage. Last from me on this. Over and out.
Last edited by souravB on 03 Mar 2019 10:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Ardeshir wrote:What am I missing here, why are even experienced/retired Faujis asking us to reveal 'evidence' of attacks? Wouldn't this gent know about how revealing such 'evidence' could give away capabilities to the Bakis? :roll:
https://www.rediff.com/news/column/less ... 190302.htm
Lessons IAF must learn from this week's missions
March 02, 2019 09:40 IST
'It is my opinion that not releasing the Balakote Battle Damage Assessment immediately post strike was a phenomenal blunder, perception battle wise,' says Group Captain Murli Menon (retd), India's former air adviser in Pakistan.
Don't mind lekin that's hogwash.
Who do you need to convince?
Many retired folks are thinking linearly along the US.
Not one genius of any rank even thought of hitting Balakot located in KPK, Pakistan. All had bullshit ideas of Cross border raids or were wringing hands. Others declared GOI is cornered and were gleeful.

Now a new tack is "GoI should hit them daily."
Some others talking how they advised UPA to attack. At that time the type of standoff weapons were not there. And who knows what scams were ie Adarsh colony.

So I don't care for these Brigadier Gerard type windbags.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by A_Gupta »

^^^ The bombs missed by 100, 185, 200 meters? All consistently to the west of the Jaba top. No other bombs - they all fell in a cluster of three? The other hypothesized position of the strike is Batrasi forest some 4 km, 10 degrees west of due south from the Jaba top.

Damage to vegetation assessed by Planet's 3-5 meter resolution photography?

This animated gif is the most ridiculous thing I've seen. If what he circles is damage to vegetation then do look at the uncircled parts too.

Image
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by Dileep »

Some narrative said WingCo Abhi was shot in the leg.

Now, we saw him walking ramrod straight with his head held high across the Wagah gates.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

YashG wrote:
durairaaj wrote: How about both sides are correct.
3 mirages actually attacked the site and each carries 3 bombs of the size mentioned.
4 hitting the trees as tweeted by DGISPR.
5 hitting the actual camps. So far the pakis have not shown the actual JeM camp sites to any neutral observers.
So, both sides are running with their own versions of facts.

If these bombs are image guided the last released ones have obscured vision because of the blowout from the first salvo. So, all the bombs might not have reached the spot at the smae instant. This is also confirmed by the civilians who claimed to have heard 4~5 distinct blasts.
:) Maybe. Just makes me happy if I can believe in my head that we did the damage. So as long as that article can be refuted/invalidated, I'm at peace. :D

one of the main reasons for the persistent demand for India to provide proof is that such proof would reveal closely guarded and the highly classified, secretive and hitherto unknown capabilities of our satellite imagery.

for some illiterates to go on requesting demanding such proof is tantamount to treachery.

no one gives a r@t$ as what anyone belives or even what makes them h@&&y.

the only pictures anyone will get is the grainy and undecipherable pictures that illiterate people are bandying about.

No one needs or will be provided with the kind of opsec details that some illiterate people are asking for, so why the hell do such people need it??

did some illiterate people expect any clear vision at night?? bombs are guided and so will make course corrections as required, irrespective of any "obscured vision" in their words.

The main point is that the strike took place and it was acknowledged by the pakis.

The dynamics between the two countries has changed.

After Gujarat, the aam abdul pakis feared the rise of Modi and now the generals are panic stricken in terms of their nuclear bluff being called.

International pressure is also on them to discard their jehadis and stop using terror against India.

This has put the cat among bajwa's jehadi pigeons. (pun intended)

IK niazi is off somewhere, as usual, and may well be sucking d!(k per his last wife's revelations.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

If any one demands proof of strike they can leave the forum.
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by khan »

souravB wrote:
khan wrote: Honestly, I don’t see the point in getting into an intellectual discussion with you about “unnecessary danger” - But maybe we should ask the families of all the people who have died from terrorist attacks since 1990 if:

blowing up a few squadrons of planes that will atleast allow for some retaliation w/o PAF interference (and might even buy a few years of peace as you youself conceded) is worth the “unnecessary danger”.

I am sure everyone here will it’s worth the risk of replacing a few SU-30’s (if which India has 200+).
Then please don't get into an intellectual discussion if you either have selectively read my earlier post or selectively understood it.
A Su30 can be replaced but the man behind the machine cannot. Risking a $60M equipment is understandable but what I don't understand is risking the man behind the machine just so you can win a debate on twitter?
I thank God our forces/gov do not think like this. Their statement include word like Pre-emptive and not Punitive.
some points to ponder
Both the plane and the man behind the machine can be replaced, this is the nature of war. Please get used to it. We are also not on Twitter.

Pre-emptive was the initial Balakot strike - which means India declared, they reserve the right to bomb terrorist rats in Pakistan anytime they wanted to.

This is different from Pakistan launching a dastardly unprovoked attack on Indian soil. This type of an act calls for a punitive response. Otherwise, the next time India kills some trash in Pakistan - pre-emptively (which even you seem to endorse), what is to stop the PAF from trying again - especially if they think they can get away with it?

There was no cost the last time the PAF tried to take out a brigade HQ. What if next time PAF actually hits the Ammo-dump or a Brigade HQ or the Jamnagar refinery? If the attack fails - hey they just get to try again - because people in India don't want to put professional soldiers in "unnecessary danger". Please explain to me, by turning the other cheek to Pakistans failed attack - what has India done to make it clear that these types of attacks are unacceptable?
souravB wrote:
  • Killing somebody in punitive action does not bring back the dead nor does it take the pain away, but taking action pre-emptively does save lives.
  • Sacrificing even one life on top of already lost ones always count as loss.
  • Dying for the sake of revenge is how jihadis are riled.
  • There are other ways to bring down an a/c even if we take out whole PAF.
This is nice and Dharmic which is how India ended up getting into a situation where a moth-eaten country of illiterates has managed to intimidate a country seven times its size.
souravB wrote:Let's agree to disagree and disengage. Last from me on this. Over and out.
Thank you saar.
Last edited by khan on 03 Mar 2019 10:44, edited 2 times in total.
ranneel
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Post by ranneel »

There is a Saab Erieye flying over Multan now.
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