Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Prashanth_R · Post by **Prashanth_R** » 04 Mar 2019 23:15

Rishi_Tri wrote:
Singha wrote:then it was pukka plane. no drone in the regions flies that fast. thats 800kmph...faster than cruising speed of A321

air intake is bigger than a motorcycle length.

IAF jet shoots down Pakistani military drone in Bikaner sect ..

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst

For my noob eyes this intake looks similar to Chinese drone EA-03/WZ-7 and speed also matches

http://chinese-military-aviation.blogsp ... av-ii.html

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 04 Mar 2019 23:17

Prabu wrote:A FirstPost article. But what worries me is this.

Factbox: India's larger army 'limited by inadequate logistics', while Pakistan is 'modernising its inventory'
Army

Despite its larger army, the capability of India's "conventional forces is limited by inadequate logistics, maintenance and shortages of ammunition and spare parts", IISS said in a report this month.

"The (Pakistan) air force is modernising its inventory while improving its precision-strike and ISR (intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance) capabilities," IISS said in its 2019 assessment.[/b]

Navy

India's navy consists of one aircraft carrier, 16 submarines, 14 destroyers, 13 frigates, 106 patrol and coastal combatant vessels, and 75 combat capable aircraft. It has 67,700 personnel, including marines and naval aviation staff.

Pakistan, which has a significantly smaller coastline, has nine frigates, eight submarines, 17 patrol and coastal vessels, and eight combat capable aircraft.

These are all a concerted propaganda campaign designed to sap the will of the Indian people to exact vengeance. I saw the mobilization of PakMil through twitter 'snap video' captures. Here is what I saw:

1. T55 clones, driving to the border under their own power. Indian tanks travel first class on tank transporters. Tanks, particularly eastern block tanks, are notoriously unreliable, and have short combat effective periods. Driving them on their own power reduces this combat effectiveness period. When attacking Longewala post, Pak tanks were driving on their own power, and were seeing a tank breakdown on avg. every 5 miles. This shows the poor quality of their cavalry.

2. Infantry mobilization was in civilian buses, the ramshackle buses we used to see in the 80s-90s India!

Indian infantry mobilizes in first class 4x4 or 6x6 Tata/Ashok Leyland trucks. This shows, that once deployed, Pak Infantry will have a hard time moving in field because they have no integral mobility.

3. PAF has this 'image' of being the 'Phizzaya', but thats more because being aviation, they are not exposed to the visibility the rest of Pak forces are. Other than the 75 74 F16s, there is no fighter worth the name in PAF. Mirages/F7s are flying coffins and are worse than the worst aircraft IAF flies. Just how long with a 3 or 6 squadron airfarce resist the well oiled machine called the IAF?

4. Finally, they have a huge gap of POL reserves that any army or economy needs to fight. Just what will power their war fighters after the first IAF/IN strike on their POL is over? What will power the tanks, the fighters, the infantry.. Jinn power?

John · Post by **John** » 04 Mar 2019 23:19

For my noob eyes this intake looks similar to Chinese drone EA-03/WZ-7 and speed also matches

I think it’s Wing Loong ii, I don’t believe the reported speeds been confirmed.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Mar 2019 23:22

I was referring the 800 kmph speed not to this debris but to a flightradar24 query few posts up

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 04 Mar 2019 23:22

Leopard 1 over Islamabad

John · Post by **John** » 04 Mar 2019 23:24

Singha wrote:I was referring the 800 kmph speed not to this debris but to a flightradar24 query few posts up

Ok few in Twitter have mentioned that China has not started delivery of Wing Loong ii but that’s a lie. Pakistan already crashed one in 16 they claimed it was test trials but I suspect they have a few more operational.

nam · Post by **nam** » 04 Mar 2019 23:26

This seems to be found on Bimber Gali sector on 27th, reported by some Pak profiles.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 04 Mar 2019 23:26

Shivaji wrote:Information coming out slowly:

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1102557673076260866

NTRO surveillance of JeM Balakot camp in days leading up to air strike by IAF confirmed around 300 active mobile connections in facility

Full story at below link:

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 304183910/

This is what frustrates me. Due to clamoring by all and sundry, SDREs are slowly revealing their techniques. Now all mobile phones will be confiscated from Abduls in training camps and we cannot count how many there are.

disha · Post by **disha** » 04 Mar 2019 23:29

This seems to be found on Bimber Gali sector on 27th, reported by some Pak profiles.

1. How do we know it is Bhimber sector
2. How do we know that the photo is *not* staged?

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 04 Mar 2019 23:29

hanumadu wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 314610.cms

Military using 13 satellites to keep eye on foes.
Of the 13, RISAT 1 and 2 have been decommissioned. But still we should have plenty of assets for before and after imagery. Perhaps, we can even count the number of ambulances and dead bodies even.

Even just 10 satellites will give a near real time picture of whats happening in shit-is-tan.

nam · Post by **nam** » 04 Mar 2019 23:31

disha wrote:
This seems to be found on Bimber Gali sector on 27th, reported by some Pak profiles.
1. How do we know it is Bhimber sector
2. How do we know that the photo is *not* staged?

I don't know. I wanted to check if these are part of jets. And who could be using it.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Mar 2019 23:33

Does the above pic show what look like parts of AN/ALQ-184 EW POD type of arrangement? Note not the same pod, but something similar..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0ZJXWhXcAAWylu.jpg

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.file ... .jpg?w=960

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 04 Mar 2019 23:39

nam wrote:
disha wrote:
1. How do we know it is Bhimber sector
2. How do we know that the photo is *not* staged?
I don't know. I wanted to check if these are part of jets. And who could be using it.

Is it possible to download the pic for post-processing ?

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 04 Mar 2019 23:41

Karan M wrote:Does the above pic show what look like parts of AN/ALQ-184 EW POD type of arrangement? Note not the same pod, but something similar..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0ZJXWhXcAAWylu.jpg

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.file ... .jpg?w=960

https://fas.org/asmp/resources/govern/1 ... _06-10.pdf There's your answer.

nam · Post by **nam** » 04 Mar 2019 23:43

ranneel wrote:Is it possible to download the pic for post-processing ?

If you mean direct link of the image?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0ZJXWhXcAAWylu.jpg

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Mar 2019 23:44

Ranneel, Just save it?

To my eye, they look like pods carrying munitions (missiles) in a frame. One has fallen off, and another is still partly in the frame.
Alternatively, they could be EW pods but there are far more decals and radomes are usually of a different color.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 04 Mar 2019 23:47

Karan M wrote:Does the above pic show what look like parts of AN/ALQ-184 EW POD type of arrangement? Note not the same pod, but something similar..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0ZJXWhXcAAWylu.jpg

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.file ... .jpg?w=960

Claims to be a downed 'Indian' missile in Bimber near Mirpur. Apologies for my sketchy Urdu.

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 04 Mar 2019 23:50

Karan M wrote:Ranneel, Just save it?

To my eye, they look like pods carrying munitions (missiles) in a frame. One has fallen off, and another is still partly in the frame.
Alternatively, they could be EW pods but there are far more decals and radomes are usually of a different color.

I went to his facebook site and have stored the images ...he is from Bhimer

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 04 Mar 2019 23:51

Prabu wrote:A FirstPost article. But what worries me is this.

Factbox: India's larger army 'limited by inadequate logistics', while Pakistan is 'modernising its inventory'
Army

Despite its larger army, the capability of India's "conventional forces is limited by inadequate logistics, maintenance and shortages of ammunition and spare parts", IISS said in a report this month.

"The (Pakistan) air force is modernising its inventory while improving its precision-strike and ISR (intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance) capabilities," IISS said in its 2019 assessment.[/b]

Navy

India's navy consists of one aircraft carrier, 16 submarines, 14 destroyers, 13 frigates, 106 patrol and coastal combatant vessels, and 75 combat capable aircraft. It has 67,700 personnel, including marines and naval aviation staff.

Pakistan, which has a significantly smaller coastline, has nine frigates, eight submarines, 17 patrol and coastal vessels, and eight combat capable aircraft.

Old timers like yours truly will remember the umpteen articles in phoren press which said

Though India might have more Nukes, Pakistan has better integrated them with more accurate mijjiles!!!

And Rakshaks would go into

and talk about how our Agni was thin with a canister and a cap, their Qasim Al Abdali Bin Mohammed Ghori missile was longer, without a canister and cap and with a red tip, so looked more dangerous. People like Arun_s used to wage a lonely battle about effectiveness of Agni and how it was a platform with many variants.

Many years passed, drip drip of info revealed that most Paki missles were duds and were just a scheme by Abdul Qadeer Khan to import NoKo maal and make some coin on the side. Qasim Al Abdali Bin Mohammed Ghori missile while testing actually broke apart and fell on Pakistan and they stopped testing it after that (true story

). That is when Rakshaks invented the term "Green painting". Now nobody talks about

Though India might have more Nukes, Pakistan has better integrated them with more accurate mijjiles!!!

Lest anyone start laughing their musharraf off. Same thing with modernization. Now we have:

Bakistan army spends 1/4 the money in US dollars than Indian army. Since 1 Pakistani US dollar = 8 Indian US dollar, they in fact spend twice as much!!

And Rakshaks go

Yes, the problem with IA is well known. Procurement delays, lack of foresight, cost overruns, not enough investment in desi projects. But as Steve Jobs once said

It is not that we are good. It is just that others are sooo bad!

disha · Post by **disha** » 04 Mar 2019 23:52

John wrote:

For my noob eyes this intake looks similar to Chinese drone EA-03/WZ-7 and speed also matches
I think it’s Wing Loong ii, I don’t believe the reported speeds been confirmed.

I am amazed by the names of weapons that is supplied to Bakistanis.

1. NoDong
2. Long Wind

Are we supposed to provide counter to such mythological astras deployed by bakis which make us give up our arms because we are so busy laughing?

nam · Post by **nam** » 04 Mar 2019 23:54

ranneel wrote:I went to his facebook site and have stored the images ...he is from Bhimer

Did you get high def images? We could read what is written on the kit.

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 04 Mar 2019 23:55

nam wrote:
ranneel wrote:I went to his facebook site and have stored the images ...he is from Bhimer
Did you get high def images? We could read what is written on the kit.

I have got the images. Zooming in does create some problem though.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 04 Mar 2019 23:55

Prasad wrote:
Karan M wrote:Does the above pic show what look like parts of AN/ALQ-184 EW POD type of arrangement? Note not the same pod, but something similar..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0ZJXWhXcAAWylu.jpg

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.file ... .jpg?w=960
https://fas.org/asmp/resources/govern/1 ... _06-10.pdf There's your answer.

Could it be that this pod was attached to the F16D that was shot down? Aircraft debris can go for a long distance.. No other reason an EW pod will be dropped like this.

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 04 Mar 2019 23:56

ranneel wrote:
nam wrote:
Did you get high def images? We could read what is written on the kit.
I have got the images. Zooming in does create some problem though.

One pic says SFM ASSY , 320 KG.
How do I upload the pics ?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Mar 2019 23:58

Guys, isn't this a play by play report of how all these Brit and Yank news reports started emerging immediately post 26/11 and even 2001?
Johann, our resident fair play Brit at the time, himself noted that the ham-handed propaganda to convince us not to go to war, was a bit too much.

The 3.5 fathers of the Pakistanis have woken up and are trying their best to save its sorry hide.

sudeepj wrote:
Prabu wrote:A FirstPost article. But what worries me is this.

Factbox: India's larger army 'limited by inadequate logistics', while Pakistan is 'modernising its inventory'
Army

Despite its larger army, the capability of India's "conventional forces is limited by inadequate logistics, maintenance and shortages of ammunition and spare parts", IISS said in a report this month.

"The (Pakistan) air force is modernising its inventory while improving its precision-strike and ISR (intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance) capabilities," IISS said in its 2019 assessment.[/b]

Navy

India's navy consists of one aircraft carrier, 16 submarines, 14 destroyers, 13 frigates, 106 patrol and coastal combatant vessels, and 75 combat capable aircraft. It has 67,700 personnel, including marines and naval aviation staff.

Pakistan, which has a significantly smaller coastline, has nine frigates, eight submarines, 17 patrol and coastal vessels, and eight combat capable aircraft.
These are all a concerted propaganda campaign designed to sap the will of the Indian people to exact vengeance. I saw the mobilization of PakMil through twitter 'snap video' captures. Here is what I saw:

1. T55 clones, driving to the border under their own power. Indian tanks travel first class on tank transporters. Tanks, particularly eastern block tanks, are notoriously unreliable, and have short combat effective periods. Driving them on their own power reduces this combat effectiveness period. When attacking Longewala post, Pak tanks were driving on their own power, and were seeing a tank breakdown on avg. every 5 miles. This shows the poor quality of their cavalry.

2. Infantry mobilization was in civilian buses, the ramshackle buses we used to see in the 80s-90s India! Indian infantry mobilizes in first class 4x4 or 6x6 Tata/Ashok Leyland trucks. This shows, that once deployed, Pak Infantry will have a hard time moving in field because they have no integral mobility.

3. PAF has this 'image' of being the 'Phizzaya', but thats more because being aviation, they are not exposed to the visibility the rest of Pak forces are. Other than the 75 74 F16s, there is no fighter worth the name in PAF. Mirages/F7s are flying coffins and are worse than the worst aircraft IAF flies. Just how long with a 3 or 6 squadron airfarce resist the well oiled machine called the IAF?

4. Finally, they have a huge gap of POL reserves that any army or economy needs to fight. Just what will power their war fighters after the first IAF/IN strike on their POL is over? What will power the tanks, the fighters, the infantry.. Jinn power?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Mar 2019 00:00

Seems like ew pod either alq series or cheen w300g of jf17

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 05 Mar 2019 00:00

sudeepj wrote:
Prasad wrote: https://fas.org/asmp/resources/govern/1 ... _06-10.pdf There's your answer.
Could it be that this pod was attached to the F16D that was shot down? Aircraft debris can go for a long distance.. No other reason an EW pod will be dropped like this.

200Kms??? This place is on a similar latitude as Jammu and further west of Sialkot. Highly unlikely....it was raining all day in the region and the grass is too well fed for winter.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 05 Mar 2019 00:02

Its absolutely propaganda from journalists and 'experts' who for psychological reasons, imagine that they have an important role to play in delaying war and conflict. They will always exaggerate the capabilities of PakMil, because they imagine it will lessen the demand for war from Indian people.

Just how does an army that has cumulatively spent nearly half a trillion dollars on defense over the past 15 years have a capability that is roughly equal to an insurgent force that has spent an eighth as much?

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 05 Mar 2019 00:02

nam wrote:
ranneel wrote:I went to his facebook site and have stored the images ...he is from Bhimer
Did you get high def images? We could read what is written on the kit.

For anyone interested:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

nam · Post by **nam** » 05 Mar 2019 00:03

What is SFM?

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 05 Mar 2019 00:05

From Vishnu Som's twitter a/c
===============================
1. Fresh developments further to my report below. Senior sources tell me bomb damage assessment of the strike on Balakot is now complete and the report with the govt.

What Happened At Balakot? Unreleased Satellite Pics May Prove India Case:

2. 4 of 5 targets hit within 1.2 metres of the selected point of impact.
3. Accuracy of Spice 2000 glide bomb on targets in the Balakot terror camp better than expected.
4. High definition satellite imagery provided by a friendly partner nation following the attack on Balakot.
5. Public release of this imagery may be problematic because the resolution of the images is classified. The government would need to find a way out of this.
6. Sources: As expected ... the penetrator variant of the Spice 2000 made precise entry points in the targets it hit before exploding inside.
7. As I understand it, this weapon uses "a blast over-pressure wave within the confined room" which "kills all soft skin targets" (read humans).
8. The penetrator variant of the Spice 2000 is not expected to necessarily bring down buildings.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Mar 2019 00:07

They can dither the image as is done for vintage kh11 pics

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 05 Mar 2019 00:07

mmasand wrote:
sudeepj wrote:
Could it be that this pod was attached to the F16D that was shot down? Aircraft debris can go for a long distance.. No other reason an EW pod will be dropped like this.
200Kms??? This place is on a similar latitude as Jammu and further west of Sialkot. Highly unlikely....it was raining all day in the region and the grass is too well fed for winter.

Nowshera to Bhimber is 20-30 kms.. the chap also lists his profession as a 'news reporter' and has a motorcycle.. So..

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Mar 2019 00:09

Just check flight path of THA 341 from Bangkok to krachi. It crossed India and then did a u-turn south of Iran pak border !! Flew almost the entire length of balochistan before turning back ! Holy smokes, pakis must be shit scared of IN OR IAF coming at karachi from off the coast of Gujarat.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 05 Mar 2019 00:20

ranneel wrote:
ranneel wrote: I have got the images. Zooming in does create some problem though.
One pic says SFM ASSY , 320 KG.
How do I upload the pics ?

Could be something like Sensor Fused Munition assembly, 320 kg.
Some PRC/Local Pak ripoff probably?
That arrow depicts where the missile or munition would come out of the canister.
Or some kind of A2G munition like a Durandal copy or the like.

Ranneel, can you decipher the text on the frame?

khan · Post by **khan** » 05 Mar 2019 00:23

Rahul M wrote:Just check flight path of THA 341 from Bangkok to krachi. It crossed India and then did a u-turn south of Iran pak border !! Flew almost the entire length of balochistan before turning back ! Holy smokes, pakis must be shit scared of IN OR IAF coming at karachi from off the coast of Gujarat.

I think that is one of the few air-corridors that is open. They probably don’t have the resources to patrol all their normal air-corridors.

I also think they optimized their air-corridors for gulf-flights, so gulf-flights will have a straight line whereas everyone else has to do gyrations to align themselves with the 2-3 air-corridors they kept open.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 05 Mar 2019 00:23

Its affecting flights to/from Indian too... I'm guessing an extra ~ 2h flight time must have been added North Indian routs (Delhi).

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 05 Mar 2019 00:25

Karan M wrote:
ranneel wrote: One pic says SFM ASSY , 320 KG.
How do I upload the pics ?
Could be something like Sensor Fused Munition assembly, 320 kg.
Some PRC/Local Pak ripoff probably?
That arrow depicts where the missile or munition would come out of the canister.
Or some kind of A2G munition like a Durandal copy or the like.

Ranneel, can you decipher the text on the frame?

There are 3 lines.
Second line has something like "PORT NO [number]"
Not able to read due to poor resolution at high zoom.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 05 Mar 2019 00:28

^^^look for anything that says CONTRACT or any number with a G starting in front of it.

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 05 Mar 2019 00:30

ranneel wrote:
Karan M wrote:
Could be something like Sensor Fused Munition assembly, 320 kg.
Some PRC/Local Pak ripoff probably?
That arrow depicts where the missile or munition would come out of the canister.
Or some kind of A2G munition like a Durandal copy or the like.

Ranneel, can you decipher the text on the frame?
There are 3 lines.
Second line has something like "PORT NO [number]"
Not able to read due to poor resolution at high zoom.

That is not PORT NO but PART NO [number]