MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 05 Mar 2019 01:19

There are a few things i fail to understand.

1 Would Pakistan return the Pilot of they wanted to hide the F-16 story? Abhi can just give an interview of what happened. (or is there a gentle man's agreament, (we know, you know)

2 Would it not be possible to see the f-16 crash site on sat images?

3 Why are the PAF not surfacing Shahzaz Ud Din ?

I have this feeling that both governments have made a backroom agreement of some sort. Hardly any country condemned India' attack. Sushma is in meeting with Putin and China when it all happens. US, France and UK even support India's right to attack Pakistan.Iran is now barking on TSP. TSP is suddenly taking actions against Jehadis. Even TSP commentators and BLOGGERS are happy to get rid of Jehadis. We have been fooled before and know it may just be drama. Has the world got enough of TSP? Can the Indian action created a front?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Mar 2019 01:46

This name Shahzaz Ud Din what does it mean?

What is Shahzaz mean?

Is there any real person with such a name?
Looks like a oordofied made up name.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Mar 2019 01:51

IndraD wrote:Pakistan subjected Wing Commander Abhinandan to loud music & bright lights to break him
https://theprint.in/defence/pakistan-su ... im/201098/
also pic appears on SM where he seems to have been subjected to narco test

Sufi music from Nus RAT Fat eh Ali Khan?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Mar 2019 02:04

disha wrote:Zaid Hamid came out in full support of the nytimes article and is mentioned in the link below.
Austin wrote:Indians Blast NYT for "Biased" Reporting on Aerial Dogfight Between MiG-21, F-16

If this was an American bird (F-16 or F-18) that shot down the Pakistani F-16, this article would be all in praises for India

I paraphrase (because it is copyrighted) some gems of the article below....

So the Americans - as per the article - have three issues with India;

1) Our bureaucracy makes it very hard for arms to be sold and our bureaucracy makes its very hard for interoperability. Translation ---> India needs to buy American fighters to modernize her military's air component and be part of the global military force led by (you guessed it!) the Americans. When you have the same platform, it makes interoperability that much easier after all. Please do not tell the French that! Their naval pilots are training with the Rafale M on board American carriers, as the Charles De Gaulle is undergoing a refit. And the French and the Americans are perfectly fine with that arrangement. In fact, American naval aviators have gone on record - in their own US Navy website - stating that the interoperability between the two is just great.

2) India's armed forces do not get the required funding. Translation ---> Increase defence budget, so India can buy American fighters. But if India buys a fighter jet from any other country, then the NYT will state that India is starving her citizens to fund her military.

So what is the moral of the story or the patronizing lesson to be learnt here?

American Fighter = Salvation
Any Other Fighter = Starvation

3) India's military wings (the army, the navy and the air force) compete with, rather than complement, each other. Translation ---> Buy F-18 and you can use it both in the navy and in the air force. Why hold competition, unless we win

And then the article goes to state ---> despite all these issues (and more), that Captain America will come like a knight in shining armour to save India from the oncoming Chinese onslaught. With American help, India will soundly defeat the Chinese.

And then the article quotes then Defence Secretary James Mattis about the US Indo-Pacific Command keeping watch from Hollywood to Bollywood. I am not making that bit up, go read the article. Yes, the Americans are ensuring that India's Hindi film industry will survive any attack from China or any other enemy. That Saving Bollywood promise will go a long way in cementing ties between our two nations. That Shah Rukh Khan and Hrithik Roshan will survive an attack makes me so much happier!

I am hurt and disappointed though, that James Mattis did not mention the Tamil, Telugu, Kannada and Malayalam film industries. I guess they are not that important. Poor 'ol Rajnikanth! Mind It!

The rest of the article is usual fluff nonsense, but towards the end there is that drive-by shot against the Rafale. About how the Rafale is mired in a corruption scandal and with Prime Minister Modi wistfully wishing that had the IAF had the Rafale instead.

What a lifafa piece! Ack Thooo!!!!

disha wrote:Zaid Hamid is the Barkha Dutt of Bakistan (Darkha Butt's mirror image in Bakistan. I am dyslexic onlee...). Whatever he touches crumbles. Zaid Hamid has bhasmasura touch and I am rooting for him to become the next PM of Bakistan.

Zaid Hamid calls Indians rabid dogs. His goal is to conduct ghazwa-e-hind in India. As per his own admission, he will only accept Indians after Pakistan has defeated us and we all convert to Islam en masse

You got to give the guy credit for imagination though. What a mind! WoW!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Mar 2019 02:09

ramana wrote:This name Shahzaz Ud Din what does it mean?

What is Shahzaz mean?

Is there any real person with such a name?
Looks like a oordofied made up name.

Ramana-ji, Shahzaz will likely have some similar meaning to below....

Shahzad ---> Son of the King
Shahbaz ---> King's Own Royal Falcon

Now whether such a person exists is something only the Pakistan Air Force can conclusively state. But since their entire history is based on lies, do not expect them to ever confirm that such a person died at the result of being shot down by an IAF MiG-21.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Mar 2019 02:18

Rishirishi wrote:There are a few things i fail to understand.

1 Would Pakistan return the Pilot of they wanted to hide the F-16 story? Abhi can just give an interview of what happened. (or is there a gentle man's agreament, (we know, you know)

Because the entire premise of the Pakistan Air Force is built on lies. The first lie is that their pilots are just genealogically superior to Indian pilots. Something about Allah being on their side and all. As the joke goes, if Allah is really on Pakistan's side...he has got a really good sense of humour. The second lie is that the PAF trains its pilots much better than the IAF. Thoroughly disproven over the years, but Pakistanis cannot understand logic and facts. Lies are plenty in the PAF. They need to lie to their populace in order to justify their existence. It is sad actually.

Rishirishi wrote:2 Would it not be possible to see the f-16 crash site on sat images?

Where are you going to look? And assuming you find the location, the Pakistanis will have removed the wreckage.

Rishirishi wrote:3 Why are the PAF not surfacing Shahzaz Ud Din ?

Because Shahzaz Ud Din died in mysterious circumstances. No one will see Shahzaz Ud Din again.

Rishirishi wrote:I have this feeling that both governments have made a backroom agreement of some sort. Hardly any country condemned India' attack. Sushma is in meeting with Putin and China when it all happens. US, France and UK even support India's right to attack Pakistan.Iran is now barking on TSP. TSP is suddenly taking actions against Jehadis. Even TSP commentators and BLOGGERS are happy to get rid of Jehadis. We have been fooled before and know it may just be drama. Has the world got enough of TSP? Can the Indian action created a front?

The above is just your imagination running wild.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 05 Mar 2019 02:20

I think these underestimations are good, as they might let us do many things under the hood. Next time we do, we can say, we dont the capability with this vintage military. Also, we can ask for F16/f18s at a friendship prices as this starves Indian public and why should we do your bidding against China? Indian media is full of nincompoops. Hopefully good journos like Vishnu Som, Yusuf Unjhawala, Sjha, get their act toghether on global stage and push Indian interests in a stronger manner.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 05 Mar 2019 02:58

Rakesh wrote:..........What a lifafa piece! Ack Thooo!!!!

........

Second that Admiral!!!!!

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 05 Mar 2019 03:08

ramana wrote:This name Shahzaz Ud Din what does it mean?

What is Shahzaz mean?

Is there any real person with such a name?
Looks like a oordofied made up name.

At least one with the name Shahzaz, e.g.,

Shahzaz, M., Nasreen, S., Ling, C.H. and Sbia, R. (2014). Causality between trade openness and energy consumption: What causes what in high, middle and low income countries. Energy Policy, 70, 126-143

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 05 Mar 2019 03:18

Rishirishi wrote:There are a few things i fail to understand.
1 Would Pakistan return the Pilot of they wanted to hide the F-16 story? Abhi can just give an interview of what happened. (or is there a gentle man's agreament, (we know, you know)
2 Would it not be possible to see the f-16 crash site on sat images?
3 Why are the PAF not surfacing Shahzaz Ud Din ?
I have this feeling that both governments have made a backroom agreement of some sort. Hardly any country condemned India' attack. Sushma is in meeting with Putin and China when it all happens. US, France and UK even support India's right to attack Pakistan.Iran is now barking on TSP. TSP is suddenly taking actions against Jehadis. Even TSP commentators and BLOGGERS are happy to get rid of Jehadis. We have been fooled before and know it may just be drama. Has the world got enough of TSP? Can the Indian action created a front?

AoA! There may be more than a little that you do not understand. Let UBCN WAG help you.

1. Check into the reporting on the war in Syria in the Bhestern (and INDIAN MAINSTREAM!!!!!) media. Esp since 2017 to date.
Please return with your data on that and we can move ahead.
Would Pakistan return the Pilot of they wanted to hide the F-16 story?
This is a good question. Answer may be another question:
Would there BE a Pakistan today if they had killed the Pilot after putting him on TV? I think PM NaMo made the answer to that QUITE clear, and Dimran Khan conveyed it to his "Parliament".

Corollaray: One might ask:
Why did Paki Jarnail Niazi sign a surrender in Dacca when he had 90,00 TFTA rapists on his side and the US 7th Fleet was only days away, hain? And Pakistan was CLEARLY winning the war on both East and West?

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 05 Mar 2019 03:18

Rakesh wrote:
disha wrote:Zaid Hamid came out in full support of the nytimes article and is mentioned in the link below.
What a lifafa piece! Ack Thooo!!!!

disha wrote:Zaid Hamid is the Barkha Dutt of Bakistan (Darkha Butt's mirror image in Bakistan. I am dyslexic onlee...). Whatever he touches crumbles. Zaid Hamid has bhasmasura touch and I am rooting for him to become the next PM of Bakistan.
Zaid Hamid calls Indians rabid dogs. His goal is to conduct ghazwa-e-hind in India. As per his own admission, he will only accept Indians after Pakistan has defeated us and we all convert to Islam en masse

You got to give the guy credit for imagination though. What a mind! WoW!

1. Just so that people remember Zaid hamid was lashed by sauds and after that his red topi was not seen, "red shift" was it I or someone else
2. NYT/WSJ articles are predictable that people can get drunk. Basically it is paradigm/perception driven articles. It will take some serious effort to change these articles. Now we can work towards changing the perceptions like pakis did for quite long or we change the ground realities as we have moved along the years. NNT (Nicholas Nasseem Taleb) showed this cabal a glimpse of their selves, but Trump has shown them that they are completely naked. If you ask me trash these articles. It's better to carry a big, thick and oiled stick and do it silently rather than the bombast of pakis and americans.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 05 Mar 2019 03:20

SERIOUSLY? I take back all I said about this Einstein.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Mar 2019 03:31

Austin wrote:Indians Blast NYT for "Biased" Reporting on Aerial Dogfight Between MiG-21, F-16

Read this tweet first and then read the NYT piece. Everything will be clear to you.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1102670058520641536 ---> 'India penetrates deep into Pakistani airspace and conducts a precision strike.' 'IAF MiG-21 UPG downs PAF F-16B'. These are not the kind of things the arms import dalals wants to hear. They want the wail about preparedness kept up so that the gravy train can continue.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Mar 2019 03:39

sudeepj wrote:Newbie question.. Does the Kopyo radar go in the Mig 21 Nose Cone or is carried on a pod?

Nose Cone. Go to this link below and check the video out at 3:53

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUBqlMvDiPE

VKumar · Post by **VKumar** » 05 Mar 2019 03:42

Wouldn't Pakistanis have got hold of this radar and other electronics in the downed MIG 21?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Mar 2019 03:52

VKumar wrote:Wouldn't Pakistanis have got hold of this radar and other electronics in the downed MIG 21?

This is the photo of the front section of the MiG-21 that crashed in PoK. That radar would have become a chapati (literally).

They will get nothing of value from that radar.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 05 Mar 2019 03:54

VKumar wrote:Wouldn't Pakistanis have got hold of this radar and other electronics in the downed MIG 21?

Sure. What are they going to do. Copy it and fit it in all their F-16s.
Just troubling you.

On a serious note just imagine my godrej wali fridge dropping a few KMS. You find the dabba. What are you going to do with it.

Yes some sort of half hearted attempt at leaning radar capabilities etc but nothing you won't be already doing anyway via commercial means.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 05 Mar 2019 03:57

VKumar wrote:Wouldn't Pakistanis have got hold of this radar and other electronics in the downed MiG-21?

I do not think there is much secret in the electronics. Maybe the the Chinese can copy something. The black box is probably encrypted.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 05 Mar 2019 04:00

^^radars would also have a lot of software related algos, dont think pakis have capabilty to reverse engineer that part. If they had got even 1/10 of what we have got, they would be shouting from Moon

chola · Post by **chola** » 05 Mar 2019 04:31

Rishirishi wrote:
VKumar wrote:Wouldn't Pakistanis have got hold of this radar and other electronics in the downed MiG-21?
I do not think there is much secret in the electronics. Maybe the the Chinese can copy something. The black box is probably encrypted.

What makes you think the chinis hadn’t already bought it from the Russians? I don’t there is anything they couldn’t buy from Rus — SU-35, the J-11 Flanker design in general, CR929, RD-93 for the Blunder, etc.

Not worth worrying about. Buying from the Russians entailed known risks that they are working with chini money in one pocket and ours in the other. A crashed MiG-21 would be the least of our worries if we are concerned about being compromised.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 05 Mar 2019 04:55

UlanBatori wrote:SERIOUSLY? I take back all I said about this Einstein.

He is a complete idiot. He does not care which Punjab he becomes the chief minister of

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Mar 2019 05:01

ramana wrote:This name Shahzaz Ud Din what does it mean?

What is Shahzaz mean?

Is there any real person with such a name?
Looks like a oordofied made up name.

Found this on SM....FWIW...

https://twitter.com/occupiedbypak/statu ... 2725826566

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Mar 2019 05:14

And then this....

https://twitter.com/SherrySays1/status/ ... 5491435520

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 05 Mar 2019 05:15

The famed call from the agencies aka the ISI!!

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 05 Mar 2019 05:17

Ayesha Siddiqa has claimed on twitter that this Khalid Umer from Londonistan is a fake. she says Shahaaz/Shahzad ud- Din character has been invented to throw people off. The F16 D was a 2 seater. who is the other guy?

https://twitter.com/iamthedrifter/statu ... 2871320576

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 05 Mar 2019 06:06

The name might have been wrong, but there is clear video evidence of 3 parachutes in the air. This is one of the pitfalls of relying on anonymous Pakis.

saip · Post by **saip** » 05 Mar 2019 06:08

Works for Jaguar, the Tata company?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 05 Mar 2019 06:13

All said & done, when the chips are down, Pakistanis will band together. Don't forget Ayesha Siddiqa's posts also show a strong tendency towards "patriotism" on occasion. Make sure what her intent is. Is she protecting the "truth" from an ISI plant? Or just trying to throw FUD? Be sure. Don't just believe her blindly.

Its Khalid Umar, not Khalid Umer.

In short, this man exists, and his profession was remarked upon much before the current fracas. Praveen Swami called him a solicitor, but apart from that, the record below states that he was a director in a law firm (however small, self employed etc). Point is this was not a fake FB profile or person who suddenly appeared in Jan, Feb 2019.

Company details, position held etc all here.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/offi ... pointments

MR KHALID UMAR is a Consultant (Lawyer) from Portsmouth. This person was born in January 1961, which was over 58 years ago. MR KHALID UMAR is Pakistani and resident in England. This company officer is, or was, associated with at least 1 company roles.
Companies associated with this officer had at least £3,231 shareholder value and £5 cash in recent

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 05 Mar 2019 06:23

Rakesh wrote:And then this....

https://twitter.com/SherrySays1/status/ ... 5491435520

Possibly Shahzad ud Din does not exist but Shahzad-Ud-Din does

?

He used the latter in his first two tweets and the former in his tweet correcting it

Pathik · Post by **Pathik** » 05 Mar 2019 06:26

Karan M wrote:
Pathik wrote:There are two videos on Liveleak website of the aftermath of the two PAF jets on the ground with a pilot killed and one being spoken to by the public. Not sure if this is some propaganda but looks real as I havent seen these on Indian sites. They are on probably on page 2 or 3 on Liveleak.com now, not posting links here as it could be a potentially NSFW site.
Please post the links with a large NSFW tag, or download the videos and upload them to youtube. I hope there are no viruses.

I generally access BRF at work hence didnt post the link but here i have sent it from my email now -->
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=CXuEa_1551256199
Please watch a decide

Pathik · Post by **Pathik** » 05 Mar 2019 06:27

gunnvant wrote:
Pathik wrote:There are two videos on Liveleak website of the aftermath of the two PAF jets on the ground with a pilot killed and one being spoken to by the public. Not sure if this is some propaganda but looks real as I havent seen these on Indian sites. They are on probably on page 2 or 3 on Liveleak.com now, not posting links here as it could be a potentially NSFW site.
Can you please either upload or share links in pm?

Here you go saar. https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=CXuEa_1551256199
please check for authenticity not sure if its the one.

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 05 Mar 2019 06:30

Pathik wrote:
Here you go saar. https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=CXuEa_1551256199
please check for authenticity not sure if its the one.

All fake.
1. Surya Kiran pilot
2. Unknown, but alleged to be from the Mi-17 crash
3. Wing Cdr Abhinandan

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 05 Mar 2019 06:31

Video is of suryakiran accident it seems

Pathik · Post by **Pathik** » 05 Mar 2019 06:37

Yeah thought so. Liveleak content video headers and comments are generally anti india/Pak and racist also this is another SM site it seems where the battles unfold so lot of propaganda here too then

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 05 Mar 2019 06:38

First video is from suryakiran crash
Third is Abhi.

Second I all confused about.
Clothes of public is kashmiri. Pehren and all.

In the last dying second. Is that air intake of an F-16 that I can see.

This pilot if him was either brave enough to stay in the cockpit till impact or was killed or rendered unconscious by something.
He does not seem to have ejected.

Also interesting is that his helmet and gear are gone.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 05 Mar 2019 06:40

No you are right. Probably chopper crash

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 05 Mar 2019 07:01

Singha wrote:@ANI
45m45 minutes ago
More
Air India has issued a circular to all cabin crew and cockpit crew directing them to say 'Jai Hind' after any announcement onboard.

They have been doing that for a while now. At least the past few years, the captain and the head stewardess always end all their announcements with Namaskaar, Jai Hind

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 05 Mar 2019 08:27

Bishwa wrote:
Rakesh wrote:And then this....
https://twitter.com/SherrySays1/status/ ... 5491435520

Possibly Shahzad ud Din does not exist but Shahzad-Ud-Din does ?
He used the latter in his first two tweets and the former in his tweet correcting it

So this fellow works for an Indian company? Now it should be easy to verify this story.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Mar 2019 08:41

The real pilots name could be anything and this a false flag planted

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 05 Mar 2019 09:05

Rakesh wrote:And then this....

https://twitter.com/SherrySays1/status/ ... 5491435520

The Shaguar is Tata company. An Indian company. Tata Jaguar-Land Rover (JLR). Fire his ass.