Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Feb 2019 22:10

GOI funds air india to the tune of $1 billion USD every year or so.
instead, they should use 50% of that for Saras and RTA project with guaranteed orders in the 100s based on cutting this perpetual bailout in half every year.

give the BSF, coast guard and home ministry its own airforce and use it for feeder routes that do not make money but could use some connectivity. make a law that private domestic airlines must also buy desi gear where available and in return will get tax breaks and other benefits. everybody and their cousin supports domestic champions to the hilt, by hook or crook, even a global giant like Boeing which lost the AAR deal, defeated airbus with help of congress and is building KC767 now. this despite airbus promising to build all nuts and bolts of its A330 MRTT in wichita kansas.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 25 Feb 2019 18:55

Adani group has won airport privatization bids for 5 airports.

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/adani-gro ... -ppp-model

Mollick.R · Post by **Mollick.R** » 08 Mar 2019 14:39

Yesterday cabinet has given go ahead for

Approval was also granted for extension of time and scope for revival and development of unserved and under-served air strips of state governments, Airports Authority of India, civil enclaves, CPSUs, helipads and water aerodromes at a cost of Rs 4,500 crore.

Yet to find the list and details of said Airports & scope for revival/development etc

Link
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 311225.cms

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 09 Mar 2019 17:55

Why are Uzbekistan Airways from Tashkent to Amritsar not flying over Tibet into India...instead taking the route over Iran and taking a u-turn over Gujarat?

https://www.flightradar24.com/UZB423/1fbe6c10

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 09 Mar 2019 19:00

ashthor wrote:Why are Uzbekistan Airways from Tashkent to Amritsar not flying over Tibet into India...instead taking the route over Iran and taking a u-turn over Gujarat?

https://www.flightradar24.com/UZB423/1fbe6c10

Pre-determined way points, also they must have alternate airports on the route to divert in case of emergency.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Mar 2019 13:55

twitter

Total number of airports built in India between 1928 (Juhu was the first civilian airport) and 2014 = 75.

Number of airports built during @narendramodi's 4.5 years = 25.

#Udaan is truly revolutionizing Indian air travel scene, helping semi urban & rural people more than others!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Mar 2019 14:22

Boeing 737 flight heading to #Nairobi involved in accident this morning. Crash fatalities & specific Location unclear.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Mar 2019 14:44

ethiopian airline is a good airline. sad.
could be al shabab getting their teeth in.

NAIROBI: An Ethiopian Airlines flight to Nairobi crashed early on Sunday with 149 passengers and eight crew members aboard, a spokesman for the airline told Reuters.
Flight ET 302 crashed near the town of Bishoftu, 62 kilometres southeast of the capital Addis Ababa, the airline said, confirming the plane was a Boeing 737-800 MAX.

"It is confirmed it happened 8.44 (am)," said the spokesman who did not give his name.

The Ethiopian prime minister's office sent condolences via Twitter to the families of those lost in the crash.

"The office of the PM, on behalf of government and people of Ethiopia, would like to express it's deepest condolences to the families that have lost their loved ones on Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 on regular scheduled flight to Nairobi, Kenya this morning," the PM's office said on Twitter.

Further details awaited.

chola · Post by **chola** » 10 Mar 2019 15:09

^^^ My god, Ethiopian is an exemplary airline. Perhaps the best from the global South barring the Gulf states.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Mar 2019 15:38

2nd MAX Crash after Lion Air

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Mar 2019 15:40

Hope they dont find a new BUG after MCAS issue on MAX

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Mar 2019 16:59

accident occurred right after takeoff before reaching cruising altitude..... similar on paper to lion air incident

ANI
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Reuters quoting Ethiopia state broadcaster: No survivors from crashed Ethiopian Airlines Addis Ababa - Nairobi flight that was carrying 157 people.

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Ethiopian Airlines: Boeing 737-800MAX took off at 8.38 am local time from Addis Ababa & lost contact at 8.44 am

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Mar 2019 17:06

It’s just 3 months old aircraft bought recently

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Mar 2019 17:25

The airport elevation is itself approx 7,600 feet MSL

The aircraft may not have climbed more than 500 - 1000 ft above that.

This max aircraft is fast turning out to have the worst record of any new aircraft or major derivative in terms of fatalities per the total number of hours flown cumulatively.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Mar 2019 17:36

Austin wrote:It’s just 3 months old aircraft bought recently

B-737-800MAX, reg number ET- AVJ, flight ET302, 149 passengers and 8 crew.

not expecting any survivors.

The almighty grant them all moksha.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 10 Mar 2019 18:50

Atleast the CVR and FDR will be recovered quickly since this happened on land. The Lion air event was over sea....(100 ft deep?) and the debris was another 30 ft or so under sea bed !! It is unbeliebable (gives on an idea of how the craft was going in its final moments). prayers for the passengers and crew.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 10 Mar 2019 18:53

singha.....the official Airlines release uses the word 'accident'. so if they were careful with their wording, it seems to rule out al shahab activity.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Mar 2019 19:07

4 indians were in pax

pics of the site.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1TCfCwXQAEDU76.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1TJ4rVX4AA-upE.jpg

chola · Post by **chola** » 10 Mar 2019 19:13

chetak wrote:The airport elevation is itself approx 7,600 feet MSL

The aircraft may not have climbed more than 500 - 1000 ft above that.

This max aircraft is fast turning out to have the worst record of any new aircraft or major derivative in terms of fatalities per the total number of hours flown cumulatively.

Two massive casualty events like this so soon after the type's delivery -- the second involving a very well respected airline -- would kill the future of any plane I would think. Especially one with an established competitor like the A330neo.

But it is Boeing afterall. Unprecedented for them.

hgupta · Post by **hgupta** » 10 Mar 2019 19:14

Very little of any airline fuselage remaining shows that the plane hit the ground at a very high velocity. This mean that the pilots have lost control completely over the plane and it probably nosedived with no chance of recovery.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Mar 2019 20:20

Considering Boeing and FAA rigged the game to get quick induction done in airline without the need for pilot to train extra and save cost and likely quick push with software bug

I can just hope this time around if proven to be an aircraft issue they have to pay for it.

But it would still be FAA and Boeing doing the investigation and who knows like last time they might blame them for not reading the manual

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Mar 2019 20:22

Plane would be fully topped with fuel also just 5 mins out

Looks like things got charred

But lot of fake pics floating around. Better to trust those from regular outlets

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 10 Mar 2019 20:32

[quote="chola" ] Two massive events like this so soon after the type's delivery -- the second involving a very well respected airline -- would kill the future of any plane I would think. Especially one with an established competitor like the A330neo. But it is Boeing afterall. Unprecedented for them.[/quote]

Boeing's response after Lion Air about.... 'hey, we already put this in the manual' when they did not, is not becomig of a responsible company. If this accident has anything to do with the flight control system, that's not going to be good. The airlines would know by now if a Mayday call was issued. After that, it is all upto what the CVR and FDR reveal.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Mar 2019 20:38

A mayday call was received and pilot got clearance ro turn around

Snippets from dailymail.co.uk

According to Swedish flight-tracking website flightradar24 the flight 'had unstable vertical speed' shortly after take off.

—-

Max Kingsley-Jones, group editor of online news site Flight Global, said Ethiopian Airlines has a 'great reputation' in the aviation world.

Speaking to the BBC, he said: 'Ethiopian [Airlines] is really the jewel in the crown for Africa's airlines. In fact, international airlines across the world look up to Ethiopian.

'It's got a fantastic network, it's got a great reputation and it has a fleet to go with that operation.

'It operates long-haul aircraft, all the latest technology... and then on short-haul it's got [Boeing] 737s.'

—

Perhaps due to lack of roads and fire engines in the uplands the govt vehicles took 2 hrs to cover the 37 miles crow flies. Pic shows a airport fire truck rushing toward the scene. Place looks thinly populated cold uplands of ethiopia. Fertile red earth roads the kind of places their ace athletes train in

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Mar 2019 20:45

hgupta wrote:Very little of any airline fuselage remaining shows that the plane hit the ground at a very high velocity. This mean that the pilots have lost control completely over the plane and it probably nosedived with no chance of recovery.

Any overviews of the debris field yet??

It could tell us quite a bit about the angle at which the plane hit the ground.

Also, if the pilots were trying to make a landing at whatever spot that they may have chosen, hoping to put her down with perhaps limited damage??

there seems to be an air force base somewhere nearby.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Mar 2019 22:02

twitter

this was the aircraft (ET-AVJ) that went down

The Boeing 737 MAX 8 involved in the #ET302 accident was ET-AVJ.
First flight: 30 Oct. 2018
Delivery: 15-17 Nov. 2018
1st commercial service: 17 Nov. 2018

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Mar 2019 22:03

twitter

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 10 Mar 2019 23:18

1. This crash will be a lot more difficult for Boeing to dismiss/sweep aside. IT happened on land and there will be pictures for it on the web.

2. It is already making the front page news for main websites. A lot of Americans fly to Africa to be one with nature, lion safari etc., especially the well-heeled ones. CNN reports the CEO of some company was on the flight.

3There is no attempt to discredit the airlines or the pilots (yet). THey have been endorsed publicly by BBC, probably in an attempt to head off potential vilification.

4. CNN webpage reports a CEO who went to the site says the plane is 'inside the ground'. If that is the truth, then ...

5. I think EA knows the story by now, from the debris field, ATC radar data on flight (it was still close to the airport) and pilot communications.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Mar 2019 23:28

17
111
390

ANI
@ANI
·
34m
External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj: Embassy of India in Ethiopia has informed me that the deceased Indian nationals are Vaidya Pannagesh Bhaskar, Vaidya Hansin Annagesh, Nukavarapu Manisha and Shikha Garg.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Mar 2019 23:40

SriKumar wrote:1. This crash will be a lot more difficult for Boeing to dismiss/sweep aside. IT happened on land and there will be pictures for it on the web.

2. It is already making the front page news for main websites. A lot of Americans fly to Africa to be one with nature, lion safari etc., especially the well-heeled ones. CNN reports the CEO of some company was on the flight.

3There is no attempt to discredit the airlines or the pilots (yet). THey have been endorsed publicly by BBC, probably in an attempt to head off potential vilification.

4. CNN webpage reports a CEO who went to the site says the plane is 'inside the ground'. If that is the truth, then ...

5. I think EA knows the story by now, from the debris field, ATC radar data on flight (it was still close to the airport) and pilot communications.

it looks like the jet went in at a very steep angle and pictures show a huge hole where fuselage probably impacted

twitter

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 11 Mar 2019 03:05

I hate to say this but these pictures say a lot, and maybe the probable cause. It is what the pictures dont show that is very telling. No large parts in vicinity. Usually photographers go for larger parts ...these ones are all small. None of the pictures show any large parts, let alone a portion recognizable as a fuselage. The impact area reminds one of the impact for the plane that was flown into ground by the 9/11 terrorist in a field, in Shanksland, PA. I believe these pictures do not suggest a crash-landing of any sort. The fuselage is in bits. Even the landing gear is not visible anywhere. That's made of steel, unlike fuselage. (These pictures do support your surmise).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2019 08:11

well one has to remember these pics were taken hours after the event, and lots of fuel burning.
relief crew took some 2 hrs to reach the isolated spot. ......remember the pilot experienced some difficulty and asked for permission to return...not the signature of a single point event like a bomb.

TOI has a unnamed indian pilot as saying @ 8000 feet of height it was travelling too fast if the flightradar data was accurate...he said "it was a plane not a rocket" and if it speeds up like that , will be tough to control the situation. he was saying 300 knots was max advisable at that altitude and plane was doing 380.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2019 08:13

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article ... ghtradar24

https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/flig ... light-302/

graph would indicate it was strongly pitching up and down, upto 600m up and down ... pilot must have contacted ATC then...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2019 08:16

3 mins after the graph ends at 5:44 the plane lost contact with ATC.

so the flight records will show whether it just disintegrated in climbing flight or pitched nose down in a high speed dive.

for comparison here are the charts from the fatal lion air crash and the one preceding it, which had displayed the same issue but crew somehow managed to recover and carry on to jakarta from denpasar(bali)

https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/flig ... ght-jt610/

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2019 08:25

probably its the same "bug" ?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Mar 2019 09:06

Tarun Shukla
‏
Verified account

@shukla_tarun
Following Following @shukla_tarun
More Tarun Shukla Retweeted Cayman Airways
Boeing 737 Max has now killed 346 people - almost equal to the number of Max in the sky. One airline has just said it will stop flying them

China has also grounded all Boeing Max planes. Hope India will also. Safety cant wait for meetings and resultant lobbying.

India @BoeingAirplanes 737 Max in-service / orders :

- Jet Airways : 7 / 210

- SpiceJet : 13 / 192

chola · Post by **chola** » 11 Mar 2019 09:09

Cheen just grounded its entire fleet of 737 Max. Yah, time to follow suit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ijing-says

China Grounds Entire Domestic Fleet of Boeing 737 Max Jets After Crash

Bloomberg News
March 10, 2019, 7:28 PM EDT

China grounded its fleet of Boeing Co. 737 Max 8 jets after a plane operated by Ethiopian Airlines crashed on Sunday, intensifying scrutiny on the best-selling model which has been involved in two deadly accidents in five months.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Mar 2019 09:12

Singha wrote:probably its the same "bug" ?

It certainly looks like it.

Highly irresponsible of both Boeing and the FAA to once again, drop the ball like this, on the 737max. They should have grounded all the Max after the lionair incident, investigated, test flown possible solutions, resolved the problem one way or the other, issued amendments to SOP, retrained pilots and then released the Max for commercial operations.

It seems like organizational inertia brought on by the quiet panic of probable global commercial and regulatory repercussions may have stymied positive action in both these organizations.

Unforgivable.

Both are now wide open to massive class action suits.

In an FIR, this would have definitely moved from IPC section 307 to section 302, ie from attempted murder to murder.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 11 Mar 2019 09:20

FAA's (in)action reminds me of the time 787 was released and had issues with Lithium batteries malfunctioning. They grounded the 787 craft only after All Nippon Airways grounded them, after 2-3 flight emergencies. In other words, behind the curve on their job to keep public safe. I cannot imagine any pilot feeling OK flying this aircraft.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Mar 2019 09:23

Singha wrote:well one has to remember these pics were taken hours after the event, and lots of fuel burning.
relief crew took some 2 hrs to reach the isolated spot. ......remember the pilot experienced some difficulty and asked for permission to return...not the signature of a single point event like a bomb.

TOI has a unnamed indian pilot as saying @ 8000 feet of height it was travelling too fast if the flightradar data was accurate...he said "it was a plane not a rocket" and if it speeds up like that , will be tough to control the situation. he was saying 300 knots was max advisable at that altitude and plane was doing 380.

flightradar consistently has had fairly unreliable data from that region, maybe owing to geographical issues so it may be best to await FDR data.