Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

parshuram · Post by **parshuram** » 11 Mar 2019 01:03

SidSoma wrote:We should seriously look at removing PAK embassy from India. A lot of funds to terrorists seems to originate from there. It would do its bit in taking out a piece of the terror logistics.

That is also immucte source of intelligence for us

nam · Post by **nam** » 11 Mar 2019 01:10

Pak must be trying to diverting our detection system to specific area like sri ganganagar.

By making noise around one area, would cause our attention getting diverted from something else..

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Mar 2019 01:17

habal wrote:pak army tanks on way to border from sialkot cantt. No tank carriers, they are digging up all tarmac. Look pretty spooked in the way they are messing up all the tarmacs with their tracks leaving behind loose rubble all along the tanks path.
https://youtu.be/10vxKlgJNBQ

That is clearly to put down internal dissent not to fight a war. What do we know about politics inside TSP at this point?
Or they want to surrender.
Think about this: without fast carriers how are they going to do their usual (high-speed retreat)?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Mar 2019 01:24

Sorry, UBCN WAG has now done preliminary analysis. That is **NOT** a "tank movement to invade". Many of the tanks are already quasi-broken down: look at operators jumping down and checking with tank stopped. The crud on the road is not all broken tarmac: the road is pretty crummy, and they are coming off the fields with mud and dung in their treads.
The guys joyriding them are not really in combat gear.

This is a Breakout and Escape, to avoid focused artillery that is expected to come into the "cantonment". "Last Days Of Sialkot Cantonment" etc. They have just realized the implications of PAF "targeting" Indian Brigade HQ. Getting their tanks out ASAP to park them well-spaced out along the road. Otherwise one fuel-air bum, or a pass by an Attack helicopter firing at 4000 cannon rounds a minute will take out the lot. They have been watching too many recent RT.com Syrian War YouTube movies.

Per Google Maps, it is ~160 km from Sialkot Cantonment to Wagah Border (Lakhanke Road, 1km from border). At their rate of progress of about 5km per hour, they should be there in 32 hours. Plenty of time to fashion some un-browned white Kurtas into flags.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 11 Mar 2019 01:46

prasannasimha wrote:The LOC and IB is hot. As I said ammunition dump was cleared on their side. The drones are being hit.

I haven’t heard any other news on this besides a tweet from one person. Doesn’t mean that didn’t happen, but no other news.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 11 Mar 2019 07:44

A lucid exposition by Arun Jaitley for not pandering to the demands for evidence of the airstrikes and much else.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2019 08:52

ANI
‏
Verified account

@ANI
7h7 hours ago
More
Rajasthan: An unidentified object fell through the roof of a building in 3B village, Sriganganagar yesterday. Ismail Khan, CO (City) says,"We received info that some item came falling through the roof of a building here. We've informed Army & BSF. No injuries have been reported."

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2019 08:58

to me it looks like a binary incendiary grenade whose middle part somehow failed to work and fizzled.

pakis must be experimenting with drone delivered grenades to see how much damage can be done. these can be deadly against any piles of ammo or fuel kept stacked around.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Mar 2019 10:17

And if the drone does not have too many metaalic parts, it may not be easily detectable on radar either. Hmmm.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 11 Mar 2019 10:17

That looks like 30mm round, either anti-aircraft or from an aircraft itself probably trying to engage UAV.

A stray round in my opinion.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 11 Mar 2019 10:22

stray round wont fall thru the roof ??...assuming the roof is RCC ...

sajaym · Post by **sajaym** » 11 Mar 2019 10:34

Sid wrote:That looks like 30mm round, either anti-aircraft or from an aircraft itself probably trying to engage UAV.

A stray round in my opinion.

Yes, I remember that shape. I used to have a 30mm round from a Mig-27.

Singha wrote:pakis must be experimenting with drone delivered grenades to see how much damage can be done. these can be deadly against any piles of ammo or fuel kept stacked around.

Pakis have definitely gone into drone mode against us after Balakot & the Uff-16 shoot down. I remember seeing youtube videos of grenade-dropping-drones used by IS in Syria -- very cheap & effective way of demoralizing enemy civilians & troop deployments.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Mar 2019 10:48

Just in time for the IA to have purchased these:
https://youtu.be/YXtuzNAbJqE?t=9

See the whole video.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2019 12:11

https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... aine-ammo/

A donetsk mujahideen drone with a single cheap thermite grenade allegedly blew up this huge ukrainian ammo dump

—

We need to be careful around ammo dumps in
General for any intruders or drones

VikasM · Post by **VikasM** » 11 Mar 2019 13:23

Republic TV playing account of source on how bodies were incinerated and dumped in river:

https://m.republicworld.com/india-news/ ... 6D0QuXQWq4

For posterity:

Full transcript of the audio:

Names of JeM terrorists killed:

In the recent strike by the Indian forces in Balakot, whoever was targeted, I know almost all of them. Most of those who have been killed are linked to Jaish-e-Mohammed. Almost all those who have been killed are from Jaish-e-Mohammed, almost all of them. I'm going to share some of their names, please keep them in mind.

Mainshah Abdar Zak, Lahore's Major Retd Havar Rana, Altaf Ali Chaudhary from Karachi, Mudassar Ali from Rawalpindi, Ustad Mohsin from Bahawalpur, Datta Khel's Tafail Dost. Two brothers from Dhannu Ali Khatak and Bahadur Khatak. They were two brothers who have been killed. A top commander of Jaish from Gujranwala has been killed. He was a crucial Jaish leader. Software expert Rana Mohsin Ali, Mianwali's Tafiq Umar, Moin Ali, Sardar Suhail, Dera Ghazi Khan's Capt Retd Mushtaq, Mandi Bawaldeen's Sheheryaar Deen, a special video editor from model town in Karachi's Tahir Ali Sheikh. An IED expert from Dera Lai Khan called engineer Rana. I have only named a few of them till now. These are the names I am aware of. These are the name I have details about.

Pakistan Army reaction:

The total number of terrorists killed is still not known. But the Pakistani army has surrounded the entire area in Balakot. They are thrashing and brutalising people. They are snatching their mobile phones. They have even shut down internet services in the area so that people do not circulate information, videos and pictures. But the scene at that moment was very disturbing because they were not even providing basic medical care to the injured at that moment. Those injured were screaming for help. But the (Pakistani) Army was so inhuman and they did not even allow doctors to go there. They burnt most of the bodies, most of them.

Bodies of JeM terrorists:

They got petrol out of cars and used it to burn the bodies. The remaining bodies were put in sacks and were dumped in the Kulhar river. Do you understand? They dumped the bodies in the river so that there is no proof available in the future. Even after they tried to cover up the matter, people have videos which they are circulating. It seems as if after the Indian strike, believe me, Jaish-e-Mohammed and ISI are rattled. They have moved all their men Waziristan-Afghanistan border. Do you understand? Since the strike, they shifted all their men from here and sent them to the Afghanistan-Waziristan border. If there is another strike by India at the Pakistani army camps, they will have no place to hide. We believe that if the Indian army continues to target the terror camps and continues to kill terrorists, soon we will be free of terror.

When it comes to terrorism, Pakistan has quite a history, after providing safe haven to the world's most wanted man at one time, Osama bin Laden and currently 26/11 mastermind Hafiz Saeed, Pakistan, has also confessed to being in touch with Masood Azhar and his UN-designated terror organisation Jaish-e-Mohammed.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Mar 2019 13:27

I just hope the Pakistani Army brutalizing the locals who should have saved some of burning of bodies on cellphones, this should get out to the leaders of the JEM and relatives on how the bodies of the relatives were burned by the Pakistani Army.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 11 Mar 2019 13:33

It also seems that a lot of Jaish and LeT cannon fodder ..er.. "cadre" consists of retired Baki faujis.

Those that cannot be given looted land or accommodated in the Fauji Foundation are being sent to shore up LeT and JeM.

sum · Post by **sum** » 11 Mar 2019 13:57

^^ Wonder if they are "retired" or just deputed to JeM as retired to avoid official tag, like how spies do?

Even the goatnapped ISI officer from Nepal was a "officially retired" TSPA

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 11 Mar 2019 14:34

I would say both. I believe, soldiers and lower ranks do retire sooner and then take up other jobs in security, running businesses, farming etc.

If you notice, one of the pest-e-shaheed was a retd Havildar. I suppose one way of TSPA to take care of its retiring personnel not going Bhasmasur on them would be to depute them to LeT, JeM, Taliban, etc. They continue to fight, they get a stipend and they do not run riot on the streets.

nam · Post by **nam** » 11 Mar 2019 14:39

The internet has been stopped in POK since 26/27 th.

PA must be going around looking in to people's phone and removing any evidence of F16 debris photos. This must explain why we hardly see any photos or videos or debris of the wrong type..

The mig21 debris videos are controlled release.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 11 Mar 2019 14:42

nam wrote:PA must be going around looking in to people's phone and removing any evidence of F16 debris photos.

Not hard to ensure that all IMEI numbers used in the area right after the strikes are accounted for, all phones confiscated, images deleted etc. Already they need a NADRA card to get a SIM (much like we do in India with Adhaar).

sum · Post by **sum** » 11 Mar 2019 14:43

Mainshah Abdar Zak, Lahore's Major Retd Havar Rana, Altaf Ali Chaudhary from Karachi, Mudassar Ali from Rawalpindi, Ustad Mohsin from Bahawalpur, Datta Khel's Tafail Dost. Two brothers from Dhannu Ali Khatak and Bahadur Khatak. They were two brothers who have been killed. A top commander of Jaish from Gujranwala has been killed. He was a crucial Jaish leader. Software expert Rana Mohsin Ali, Mianwali's Tafiq Umar, Moin Ali, Sardar Suhail, Dera Ghazi Khan's Capt Retd Mushtaq, Mandi Bawaldeen's Sheheryaar Deen, a special video editor from model town in Karachi's Tahir Ali Sheikh. An IED expert from Dera Lai Khan called engineer Rana. I have only named a few of them till now. These are the names I am aware of. These are the name I have details about.

How about those other TSPA folks, a Colonel and Major ( retd again?) who were named as KIA in another earlier newspaper report?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Mar 2019 14:50

Completely a min north korea filled with rabid nutjobs who are being terrorized by even more rabid nutjobs.

Anyone interested should watch the videos posted by Rakesh about Karachi and Pakistani mindset (empty houses to show off). Both are very reflective of the near complete collapse of the state & general mental bankruptcy of the Pakistani awaam.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Mar 2019 14:52

That's 17 accounted for in that interview alone. Like it or not, we have hit Jaish hard. Good.

nam · Post by **nam** » 11 Mar 2019 14:52

Pak has now started sending in "non-state actor" drones! Must learn from Paks to fight war on the cheap. They could produces these Chini clones in hundred and keep sending them across.. Can deny they are theirs and say it is local "freedom fighter drones". India should look within!

We are seeing the drawback of using CIWS guns against the drones with bullets falling in civilian areas. This is something we discussed earlier.

Need a cheaper Iron dome style CIWS with command guide 5KM missile, guided by AESA multi beam. Produced in thousands on the cheap.

If this is not another freedom fight, either they are desperately probing our deployment around this area (becoz chini supplied satellite images of armor mobilisation in this area) or forcing our air defences from another area in to this place.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Mar 2019 14:55

I have read a number of books about Pakistan recently which suggest that although Pakistan appears to be on the brink of collapse, the underlying systems of biradaris, ethnic clans, etc., provide a degree of stability to the society even if the state itself is not functional. it is very much a multi-local feudal aristocracy, with different feudal lords (not all of whom are land owners). I guess this limits their ability to take on ghazwa-e-Hind, but probably still makes them strong on the ground in their home turf

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 11 Mar 2019 14:57

https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/india/ ... rpf/380328

Balakot air strikes count revealed! 263 terrorists had assembled at JeM camp in Pak for training - EXCLUSIVE
Updated Mar 11, 2019 | 14:01 IST |

Times Now BureauBalakot air strikes proof: 263 terrorists were tracked at the Balakot Jaish-e-Mohamed camp five days before the Indian Air Force carried out the pre-dawn air strikes on February 26.

New Delhi: Amid the ongoing war of words in India over the number of terrorists killed in Balakot air strikes carried out by the Indian Air Force on the biggest terror training camp of Jaish-e-Mohammed in Pakistan, Times Now has learned that a total of 263 terrorists had assembled at the facility days before the unprecedented action by the IAF.

The presence of 263 terrorists was confirmed at the Balakot JeM camp five days before the IAF carried out the pre-dawn air strikes on February 26, days after the February 14 Pulwama terror attack in Jammu and Kashmir in which 40 personnel of the Central Reserve Police Force were killed.

Times Now has learned that 18 senior commanders of the JeM were present at the Balakot facility to train the terror recruits. While 83 terrorists had assembled for Daura-e-Aam — the beginners’ training course, 91 terrorists had assembled for Daura-e-Khas — advanced training. A total of 25 were selected for special training as fidayeens
Further, 30 had assembled for Daura-e-Mautulah and some 18 to 20 were working staff, including cooks and barbers. Some of the teachers and trainers present and identified included Mufti Umar, Maulana Javed, Maulana Aslam, Maulana Ajmal, Maulana Zubair, Maulana Abdul Gafur Kashmiri, Maulana Qudratullah, Maulana Qasim and Maulana Junaid.

A total of four missiles were dropped at the Balakot JeM camp by Indian Air Force Mirage-2000 fighter jets.

Times Now is putting out the proof when doubts have been expressed over the effectiveness of the IAF air strikes in Balakot. Just days ago, satellite images published in the international media had claimed that the JeM camp had not been hit by Indian jets. Then also, Times Now had shown satellite images to counter and debunk those claims and clearly establish that buildings at the JeM camp were hits by missiles launched by Mirage-2000 jets.

As per details available, the presence of 263 terrorists at the JeM camp was established by Indian intelligence agencies. The top leadership of the JeM had assembled at the Balakot facility in the run-up to several terror training courses that were due to start on February 25.

nam · Post by **nam** » 11 Mar 2019 15:06

Pak is not going anywhere and will be a mess most of the time. Which is why I am dead against invading that place. Nothing worth invading. I don't GoI money being spend on Swach Bharat abhiyan in Lahore.

My more 2 cents.
Our fight with Pak will be "stand off wars". Pak will give us opportunity and we will be respond back with IAF/missile. So far our response have been driven by land centric options. Not we have elevated it to "air centric". This free IA from maintaining large forces to maintain the "fear factor" to Pak. Since we are not going to invade that place, it is pointless maintaining such a large force against Pak.

I feel this will allow IA to move it's concentration on to the Chini front and reduce it's manpower requirement. Any first response will be IAF. Secondary would be IA dealing with any Pak land response post that. Pak can carry out land response, on if PAF is strong enough to handle IAF. So bulking up IAF would allows to cater for our first response and knock off PAF if there is a major escalation from Pak.

So IA gets to reduce it's manpower, IAF get's more teeth. And Pak will be kept alive. It is our Gaza strip. Allows us to invest in millitary tech,keeps us on our toes and will allow usage once a while. Chini don't get in to wars..

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 11 Mar 2019 15:43

nam wrote:Pak must be trying to diverting our detection system to specific area like sri ganganagar.

By making noise around one area, would cause our attention getting diverted from something else..

Sri Ganganagar is very very important.
The Rest cannot be said on an open forum. Its very important, they know it and we know it that they know it.

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 11 Mar 2019 16:11

sum wrote:
Mainshah Abdar Zak, Lahore's Major Retd Havar Rana, Altaf Ali Chaudhary from Karachi, Mudassar Ali from Rawalpindi, Ustad Mohsin from Bahawalpur, Datta Khel's Tafail Dost. Two brothers from Dhannu Ali Khatak and Bahadur Khatak. They were two brothers who have been killed. A top commander of Jaish from Gujranwala has been killed. He was a crucial Jaish leader. Software expert Rana Mohsin Ali, Mianwali's Tafiq Umar, Moin Ali, Sardar Suhail, Dera Ghazi Khan's Capt Retd Mushtaq, Mandi Bawaldeen's Sheheryaar Deen, a special video editor from model town in Karachi's Tahir Ali Sheikh. An IED expert from Dera Lai Khan called engineer Rana. I have only named a few of them till now. These are the names I am aware of. These are the name I have details about.

Wonder if any of these guys are on social media ?

sajaym · Post by **sajaym** » 11 Mar 2019 16:13

nam wrote:Pak has now started sending in "non-state actor" drones...We are seeing the drawback of using CIWS guns against the drones with bullets falling in civilian areas..
Need a cheaper Iron dome style CIWS with command guide 5KM missile, guided by AESA multi beam. Produced in thousands on the cheap...

Maybe we also need to explore soft kill/mission kill alternatives like the laser systems showcased below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ElNjgZCDpQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

nam · Post by **nam** » 11 Mar 2019 16:17

sajaym wrote: Maybe we also need to explore soft kill/mission kill alternatives like the laser systems showcased below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ElNjgZCDpQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Soft kill have no gurantee of success. Laser will be expensive for 5 or 10km range for the amount of energy required versus the cost of the drone.

A 5k USD command guided missile is a cheaper option for 5-10km range. Big advantage of Akash, the rounds are very cheap as no seeker. Just need a smaller rocket powered missile.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 11 Mar 2019 17:05

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/b ... 2019-03-11

At least four Pakistan Army men could have died in the Indian Air Force (IAF) airstrikes in Balakot on February 26, a local mosque worker of the area has revealed.

India Today TV dialled police officers in PoK, local clerics in Balakot and Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) commanders elsewhere in Pakistan who have vouched for the Indian bombing and also confirmed that terror fundraising continues to flourishing despite Islamabad announcing a crackdown.

John · Post by **John** » 11 Mar 2019 18:08

Keep in mind pakistan army used to politize and use US drone strikes as means to recruit more militants for Afghanistan. Well known they pulled civilian bodies from funeral homes to show that US strikes killed them and display it to public to antagonize them (also caters the western liberal media).

By keeping the casualties hush hush they prevent them from achieving martyrdom and actually help us a great deal..

John · Post by **John** » 11 Mar 2019 18:12

Singha wrote:https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... aine-ammo/

A donetsk mujahideen drone with a single cheap thermite grenade allegedly blew up this huge ukrainian ammo dump

—

We need to be careful around ammo dumps in
General for any intruders or drones

I mentioned this almost immediately once I started seeing drone activities hopefully military is on full lookeout these aren't gathering Intel but being used to carry out strikes. They copied a page from Syria, Ukraine and they claim innonence once these strikes take place. Hopefully the military is on full lookout and looks at possible strikes on drone operating bases.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Mar 2019 18:14

In the satellite imagery that Google (Maps, Earth) provides for POK, can one make out streetlight poles, overhead power/telephone lines, high voltage transmission towers, cell radio towers? Is the resolution sufficient? In these areas, is much of such infrastructure underground (obviously not the cell towers

)

PPS: Best coverage in the northern areas of Pakistan, PoK - 2016 - Telenor?
http://thesilenttraveler.com/best-mobil ... -pakistan/

I expect coverage to be best in large towns and in corridors along the highways, and spotty further away.

PS: Example of a coverage map:
https://www.nperf.com/en/map/PK/-/14827 ... 001&zoom=4

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 11 Mar 2019 18:59

John wrote:Keep in mind pakistan army used to politize and use US drone strikes as means to recruit more militants for Afghanistan. Well known they pulled civilian bodies from funeral homes to show that US strikes killed them and display it to public to antagonize them (also caters the western liberal media).

By keeping the casualties hush hush they prevent them from achieving martyrdom and actually help us a great deal..

They cannot do that with India, Accepting that India hit them and there were Casualties will spoil there image in their country

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Mar 2019 21:38

10 ambulances, say 10 sacks each, that's 100. Need some 5 trips to take them all out. Or maybe just a few Army trucks.
Burning must not have occurred at the site, else smoke would have been seen and stink spread. Bodies in river is credible, rains came and floods.
Overall very tragic: that the L-e-T did not arrive for a surprise party with J-e-M that night.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 11 Mar 2019 22:08

what is the importance of Sri Ganganagar in Indo Pak context??

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 11 Mar 2019 22:12

:is it the nearest big town on border ..close to Bhawalpur ( JeM HQ) ?? thats the only link i can see... close to Bhatinda... maybe the strike corps goes thru into Pak thru Sri Ganganagar !!!!