Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 16 Mar 2019 18:53

A pretty shitty post by hushkit. ..

....

Gaurav, why post links to that guy and his crap and give him more hits. He is a jerk with a major superiority complex who runs a blog but acts as if he is a WW aviation authority.

Thanks
K

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Mar 2019 19:58

Singha wrote:I feel he is tad out of touch
Like anyone else tejas has drop tanks too
Aar is available for long xl missions

The article is not reflective of true reality though supportive in general

I am just glad he is around!!

About payload/range:

Tejas was firmly MiG-21 footprint optimized with MiG-29/Mirage 2000 level of performance/tech crammed into a MiG-21 sized airframe. So 7+1 pylons (vs 5 on MiG-21) again derived from Mirage 2000 H/TH layout + 3.5T of capacity. To have this much is quite sufficient.

Apart from LRU re-arrangement & new glass pit, LCA Mk1 and Mk1A will be very similar. The SPJ on outer pylon + dual SRAAM pylon can be retrofitted to the Mk1 as well.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 16 Mar 2019 20:05

That Hushkit guys criticism is that LCA took more time and is costly than Bandar!!
No Sherlock, you are right, but that is how it was supposed to be - It is a generation or two ahead of Bandar and hence costly and took time.
We did our own Bandar (perhaps better than bandar) - It is called Mig 21 UPG. It was run by a BRD (Base repair depot). The main agencies focused on LCA. In 1-1 dogfight 9 out of 10 times the Bisons will come on top of bandar. Stop cribbing.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Mar 2019 20:13

Just stop giving that moron mindspace. The Indian mustachio'ed self proclaimed uber analyst Aroor gave him "bhaav" as some sort of expert. Doubt he has any real world awareness of how complex programs are run & what challenges they face. Just ask anyone in any engineering team with some 3-4 vendors about how tough challenging deadlines are, and this is usually with COTS modules & some in-house work.. let alone making a fighter. The goof is comparing building a modern 4.5 th Gen fighter with a sheet metal fighter which had 2 channel FBW (combination of regular controls & FBW in pitch iirc) & which the PLAAF itself refused to buy. The IAF may have many vices, but they wouldn't touch a JF-17 with a barge pole.

esommuk · Post by **esommuk** » 16 Mar 2019 20:14

Pardon my ignorance .. I always thought drop tanks have something to do with loading/cg of the aircraft apart from being range extender!

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 16 Mar 2019 20:39

LCA Tejas, INS Kadmatt to take part in Malaysia’s LIMA 2019

By New Delhi Times Bureau on March 15, 2019

Tejas, India’s indigenous supersonic Light Combat Aircraft and the world’s lightest supersonic fighter which has already joined the Indian Air Force (IAF) and received the Final Operational Clearance on February 20, 2019, during Aero India 2019 at Bengaluru’s Yelahanka Air Force Station, will first time take part in aerial displays during the five-day Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition (LIMA) 2019 in Malaysia.

Two Tejas fighters will perform with Indonesia’s Jupiter Aerobatic Team flying the KT-1B Woong Bee aircraft and the Royal Malaysian Air Force in the show. Along with the Tejas, Indian Navy’s Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) Corvette INS Kadmatt will also take part in LIMA 2019. INS Kadmatt is the second ship of Project 28 (P28) class and was commissioned into the Indian Navy on January 7, 2016. It is armed to fight in Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) warfare conditions.

The IAF had inaugurated the Tejas into its Number 45 Squadron called Flying Daggers on July 1, 2016. Before the Tejas, the Flying Daggers used to fly the MiG-21 Bison fighters, one of which shot down a much-advanced F-16 of the Pakistani Air Force on February 27, 2019, when the enemy aircraft tried to enter the Indian airspace over Jammu and Kashmir.

The first advance Fly-by-wire (FBW) fighter designed, developed and manufactured by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Being a 4th Plus generation fighter it has a glass cockpit with Satellite aided Inertial Navigation System, can fire Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles, bombs and precision-guided munitions and can be refuelled mid-air.

https://www.newdelhitimes.com/lca-tejas ... lima-2019/

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Mar 2019 20:56

These criticism of Tejas will go away once some of the pilots from AI , Flight Intl , AWST do a review of flying them ......These Intl mag do similar reviews of other types , see no reason why IAF cant do something similar for Tejas.

IT is more a PR dept Job or a lack of it that gets bad criticism in intl press

We have desi journous like Vishnu Som , Shiv Aroor etc flying the Tejas but they are not pilots to understand things its more of a fun flight for them , Once professional pilots do fly these birds they will believe it

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 16 Mar 2019 22:56

Rakesh wrote:
ashishvikas wrote:The 16th series produced Tejas (LA-5016) completed couple of her production sorties by last evening. Flying Daggers will be in full strength before end of this financial year. With FOC in kitty, the final set of aircrafts with FOC standard will start coming into production line. As per HAL Chairman, HAL will put all effort to deliver all the 16 aircrafts by March 2020. Appears to be a tall order. But keeping in view of the maturity level achieved in both the production lines, Let us hope this target is achieved without any big hurdle.

Jai Hind.

https://www.facebook.com/10332915642820 ... 035282166/
Ashish, this is great news. When did SP-16 first fly? And any idea about SP-15? With those two, No 45 will be a full strength squadron.

SP16 made its first flight on 11th.

Piloted by Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Mar 2019 23:01

Austin wrote:These criticism of Tejas will go away once some of the pilots from AI , Flight Intl , AWST do a review of flying them ......These Intl mag do similar reviews of other types , see no reason why IAF cant do something similar for Tejas.

IT is more a PR dept Job or a lack of it that gets bad criticism in intl press

We have desi journous like Vishnu Som , Shiv Aroor etc flying the Tejas but they are not pilots to understand things its more of a fun flight for them , Once professional pilots do fly these birds they will believe it

You are making the classic mistake of thinking these guys will ever treat a brown skinned SDRE as somebody equal to them in their hallowed circles..NYT, Hushkit etc are suffer from this and some of our desi guys encourage this BS.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 17 Mar 2019 01:01

ashishvikas wrote:SP16 made its first flight on 11th.

Piloted by Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)

You Rock! First Page Updated!

One more to go and No 45 Sqn is at full strength!!!!

In 2019, delivering 8 aircraft is the goal. They have already completed three and have five left to go.

They will exceed this goal.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 17 Mar 2019 14:34

Admiral we are always talking financial years wrt delivery or now we are talking calendar year.
Calendar Year: 1 Jan to 31 Dec
Financial Year (Commonwealth): 1st April to 31st March.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 17 Mar 2019 16:49

I am just waiting for the day Tejas goes into mock aerial combat with its brothers & sisters in the IAF. I have a feeling it might just surprise many.
Who knows, it might have already happened.

Bhaskar_T · Post by **Bhaskar_T** » 17 Mar 2019 20:18

The Man, Shri Manohar Parrikar Ji, who gave LCA Tejas so much support when it was needed, I will always remember him. Rest in peace Sir. (Yes, President of India has tweeted about him passing away)

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Mar 2019 20:50

He gave us Tejas, never forget. After all that was done to just have the project wither on the vine with no orders.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 17 Mar 2019 21:50

Khalsa wrote:Admiral we are always talking financial years wrt delivery or now we are talking calendar year.
Calendar Year: 1 Jan to 31 Dec
Financial Year (Commonwealth): 1st April to 31st March.

Saar, I am doing it by calendar year. Easier to track.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 17 Mar 2019 22:27

Karan M wrote:
Austin wrote:These criticism of Tejas will go away once some of the pilots from AI , Flight Intl , AWST do a review of flying them ......These Intl mag do similar reviews of other types , see no reason why IAF cant do something similar for Tejas.

IT is more a PR dept Job or a lack of it that gets bad criticism in intl press

We have desi journous like Vishnu Som , Shiv Aroor etc flying the Tejas but they are not pilots to understand things its more of a fun flight for them , Once professional pilots do fly these birds they will believe it
You are making the classic mistake of thinking these guys will ever treat a brown skinned SDRE as somebody equal to them in their hallowed circles..NYT, Hushkit etc are suffer from this and some of our desi guys encourage this BS.

Agreed. Why do we even need validation from whites especially anglos? What purpose does it serve? Will our planes or pilots become more effective after their validation ? Will their combat potential increase?

If not then why are we still hellbent on licking their behinds. For all I care hushkit, aviationist etc can shove it up theirs. We got better things to do than becoming their guides for IAF tours.

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 18 Mar 2019 01:53

Karan M wrote:He gave us Tejas, never forget. After all that was done to just have the project wither on the vine with no orders.

Not only he gave us Tejas, he gave us a "business as usual" playbook which was proven by Tejas and now being followed by Arjun, 155m Artillary, Akash, Pinaka and many more. An enduring lagacy.

mody · Post by **mody** » 18 Mar 2019 18:23

Except for the AAR probe, how much work would be required to upgrade the IOC planes to FOC standard?
I think the only major structural change is the addition of the AAR probe and associated plumbing.
The rest of the changes should be software related. Are there any other major changes?

Most of the software related changes can perhaps be carried out during April-September timeframe, when the FOC planes will still not be rolling off the production line.
I think this should be done as soon as possible, so that Flying Daggers can use the entire range of weapons currently available for the Tejas and also, the flight envelope is expanded to the full intended range for MK1 aircrafts.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 18 Mar 2019 18:34

As I have said earlier, all Mk1s will be upgraded to MK1A standard as MLU.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Mar 2019 18:38

Indranil, aren't all the IOC std. aircraft going to be upg. to FOC first? IIRC, that was the plan. At least put in the S/W updates for Derby etc. AVM Nambiars comments suggest IOC aircraft are Derby capable as well?

la.khan · Post by **la.khan** » 18 Mar 2019 18:55

Indranil wrote:As I have said earlier, all Mk1s will be upgraded to MK1A standard as MLU.

So, if I understand correctly what Indranil said: 1. eventually, IAF will have 123 Tejas Mk1A aircraft 2. Tejas Mk1A will the base model upon which any issues/bugs/improvements/refinements will be made (none of this IOC, pre-FOC level, FOC stuff).

Must say, HAL has its work cut out.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 18 Mar 2019 19:43

Indranil's repeated confirmation on Mk1 being upgraded to Mk1A is a fantastic thing. I really, really hope they increase the number of Tejas orders either in Mk1 or Mk1A configuration. The performance of Mk1A might convince the IAF to do just that.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 18 Mar 2019 20:21

Not sure if anyone posted earlier.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 18 Mar 2019 21:08

Already posted and video has been incorporated into the first page of this thread.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 18 Mar 2019 21:10

Karan M wrote:Indranil, aren't all the IOC std. aircraft going to be upg. to FOC first? IIRC, that was the plan. At least put in the S/W updates for Derby etc. AVM Nambiars comments suggest IOC aircraft are Derby capable as well?

Yes Karan, all software updates will plugged back into all IOC std. aircraft. You would be happy to know that the Derby related updates are already plugged into the operational aircraft. Unconfirmed rumour is that they were tested in GS.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 18 Mar 2019 22:02

Karan, please check your PM.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Mar 2019 23:27

What is GS?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 18 Mar 2019 23:29

Gagan Shakti

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Mar 2019 00:41

Thanks.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 19 Mar 2019 06:29

Karan M wrote:Just stop giving that moron mindspace. The Indian mustachio'ed self proclaimed uber analyst Aroor gave him "bhaav" as some sort of expert. Doubt he has any real world awareness of how complex programs are run & what challenges they face. Just ask anyone in any engineering team with some 3-4 vendors about how tough challenging deadlines are, and this is usually with COTS modules & some in-house work.. let alone making a fighter. The goof is comparing building a modern 4.5 th Gen fighter with a sheet metal fighter which had 2 channel FBW (combination of regular controls & FBW in pitch iirc) & which the PLAAF itself refused to buy. The IAF may have many vices, but they wouldn't touch a JF-17 with a barge pole.

Savage!!
I read this and almost fell of my chair laughing.

But serious points to note, it's an iterative development of a flying machine. F7 or Mig21.
Also China took on all the costs for development for this and did the commie accounting on it. So no point comparing pak costs on R and D with Tejas which has been open from day one.

JF17 is made in China Mig21.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 19 Mar 2019 06:48

Austin wrote:These criticism of Tejas will go away once some of the pilots from AI , Flight Intl , AWST do a review of flying them ......These Intl mag do similar reviews of other types , see no reason why IAF cant do something similar for Tejas.

IT is more a PR dept Job or a lack of it that gets bad criticism in intl press

We have desi journous like Vishnu Som , Shiv Aroor etc flying the Tejas but they are not pilots to understand things its more of a fun flight for them , Once professional pilots do fly these birds they will believe it

Oh come now, we don’t need approval from Gora Sahibs! The only way everyone will shut up is when it makes a few kills. That time is coming... I hope the DerbyER is already integrated.

Shekhar Singh · Post by **Shekhar Singh** » 19 Mar 2019 11:32

Can a derated Ge 414 be used for Tejas MK1A? As the dimensions are same as Ge404 and weight is just 74kg more. It can provide more thrust without any changes in airframe.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 19 Mar 2019 11:34

Soon LCA Tejas For IAF To Be Built In Salem? Tamil Nadu Urges HAL To Set Up Manufacturing Facility In The State

The Tamil Nadu government has been urging state defence manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to set up a plant in Salem, Press Trust of India has reported.

The AIADMK government has cited the ambitious defence corridor being built in the state as a means to generate HAL’s interest.

As per Secretary (MSME) Tamil Nadu Government D P Yadav, they are looking to acquire a big chunk of land, which can potentially become a HAL manufacturing facility.

He added that the government is looking at aerospace as one of the growth areas. They are also focusing on technology transfer and indigenisation of defence products.

A Tamil Nadu defence corridor was inaugurated on 20 January. It is India’s second defence industrial corridor. PSU’s like Ordnance Factory Board, Bharat Electronics Ltd and Bharat Dynamics Ltd have already committed a total investment of over Rs 2,500 crore. Lockheed Martin too has announced an investment in the corridor.

The corridor would comprise of cities like Chennai, Hosur, Salem, Coimbatore and Tiruchirappalli.

Coimbatore has been chosen as the defence innovation hub as it already has a thriving ecosystem of large number of micro, medium and small enterprises. The innovation hub will have a common facility centre to be created through a special purpose vehicle.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Mar 2019 11:57

Shekhar Singh wrote:Can a derated Ge 414 be used for Tejas MK1A? As the dimensions are same as Ge404 and weight is just 74kg more. It can provide more thrust without any changes in airframe.

its dimensions are bigger. its also heavier. even if that can be shoehorned in, the weight balance will change and need retest of digital FCS test points. also bigger engine of same gen eat more fuel which impacts range ......so its not just "free" gain in dry and wet thrust.

now if brar sahib can arrange for some GE414-adaptive cycle engines (414-MAX) for free we'd be all ghee and sugar

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 19 Mar 2019 12:11

IR Sir whats the situation with radome replacement ? would it be part of FOC batch or is it being retrofitted on the IOC batch in squadron ?

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 19 Mar 2019 12:35

suryag wrote:IR Sir whats the situation with radome replacement ? would it be part of FOC batch or is it being retrofitted on the IOC batch in squadron ?

From the available photos of in service Tejas, I think they already have the new radome

mody · Post by **mody** » 19 Mar 2019 16:40

Indranil wrote:
Karan M wrote:Indranil, aren't all the IOC std. aircraft going to be upg. to FOC first? IIRC, that was the plan. At least put in the S/W updates for Derby etc. AVM Nambiars comments suggest IOC aircraft are Derby capable as well?
Yes Karan, all software updates will plugged back into all IOC std. aircraft. You would be happy to know that the Derby related updates are already plugged into the operational aircraft. Unconfirmed rumour is that they were tested in GS.

Indranil, just wanted to know if there are any hardware changes between IOC and FOC planes. The software upgrade will certainly be made and I hope they utilize the time from April till September to upgrade all the IOC planes to FOC standard, except for the AAR probe. Fitment of AAR probe can take place when the planes are being upgraded to MK1A standard, as part of MLU.
Derby was already qualified in IOC planes, by I guess some software upgrades are still going to be required, so that Derby can be used in all flight profiles. Right now, it may be limited in some aspects.
With regards to upgrade of MK1 to MK1A, I hope the 32 MK1 planes are upgraded to MK1A standard with the Uttam AESA radar instead of the 2052.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 19 Mar 2019 17:29

mody wrote:Indranil, just wanted to know if there are any hardware changes between IOC and FOC planes.

MAR plumbing comes to mind.

LRU rearrangement and further weight reduction should come in Mk1A

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 19 Mar 2019 21:46

Shekhar Singh wrote:Can a derated Ge 414 be used for Tejas MK1A? As the dimensions are same as Ge404 and weight is just 74kg more. It can provide more thrust without any changes in airframe.

A proposal was made, but was dropped in lieu of the time required to make such a change.

Kakarat wrote:
suryag wrote:IR Sir whats the situation with radome replacement ? would it be part of FOC batch or is it being retrofitted on the IOC batch in squadron ?
From the available photos of in service Tejas, I think they already have the new radome

Correct.

mody wrote: Indranil, just wanted to know if there are any hardware changes between IOC and FOC planes. The software upgrade will certainly be made and I hope they utilize the time from April till September to upgrade all the IOC planes to FOC standard, except for the AAR probe. Fitment of AAR probe can take place when the planes are being upgraded to MK1A standard, as part of MLU.
Derby was already qualified in IOC planes, by I guess some software upgrades are still going to be required, so that Derby can be used in all flight profiles. Right now, it may be limited in some aspects.
With regards to upgrade of MK1 to MK1A, I hope the 32 MK1 planes are upgraded to MK1A standard with the Uttam AESA radar instead of the 2052.

Derby is qualified for the entire envelop now.

I don't know the details of the changes between Mk1 and Mk1A to the level where I can answer the rest of the question with authority. But, as the d-day draws closer, the amount of physical changes between Mk1A and Mk1 is getting more and more restricted.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 20 Mar 2019 01:16

Kakarat wrote:
suryag wrote:IR Sir whats the situation with radome replacement ? would it be part of FOC batch or is it being retrofitted on the IOC batch in squadron ?
From the available photos of in service Tejas, I think they already have the new radome

yes they do. It was mentioned in the PAC report. Need to find that link for the report. There is an indigenous quartz radome in the works now. If it fructifies, should see it on Mk1A perhaps.

Found the doc

105. When enquired about all the six Radomes were supplied by M/s Cobham, England by January 2015, the Ministry submitted that first two Radomes were supplied by August 2015 for performance evaluation. Last Radome was supplied by December 2016.
106. Regarding the present status of testing of Radome supplied by Cobham along with MMR on LCA, the Ministry replied that flight testing of Cobham Radome has been completed with MMR on LCA and Radar performance meets Air Staff Requirements. Quartz Radome procured from Cobham UK, has been successfully integrated on LCA AF MK1 and various aspects have been tested on ground and in flight. The Radome has now been certified for and being used on series production fighters.
107. When asked whether the Radome developed by HAL was usable on any other aircrafts, the Ministry submitted that Radome developed by HAL for LCA is specific to LCA airframe. So the same Radome cannot be used in other aircraft platforms/aircrafts. However, the basic technology can be adapted for another platform.
108. On being asked whether ADA/HAL would continue to depend on M/s Cobham, England for further supply of Radome in order to meet the requirement of LCA or was there any plan for indigenisation of the same, the Ministry replied that ADA/HAL will depend on Quartz Radome developed by M/s. Cobham for Mk1 series production aircrafts. DRDO has initiated LCA quartz radome development with ASL Hyderabad and R&D Engineers Pune. These radomes will be integrated in LCA Mk1A when ready. CEMILAC has approved the fitment of M/s Cobham Radome from 11th Series Production Aircraft onwards, as Line Compliance, and as Retro-fit on SP1– SP10. HAL
39
has already placed the order on M/s Cobham for supply of 20 sets of Radomes. Further orders for FOC requirement will also be placed.
109. The Ministry also stated that Quartz radome integrated and flight tested. The performance achieved ASR targets.