Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 23 Mar 2019 10:46

YES!!!!!! Great day for the country! Updating page 1!!!! Jai Hind!

Four out of Eight Tejas, planned for delivery in 2019, are already flying.

50% already done and March 31st is not over yet!

prasannasimha wrote:

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 23 Mar 2019 13:09

Rakesh wrote:YES!!!!!! Great day for the country! Updating page 1!!!! Jai Hind!

Four out of Eight Tejas, planned for delivery in 2019, are already flying.

50% already done and March 31st is not over yet!

prasannasimha wrote:

SP15 was also piloted by Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd).

Please update first page.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 23 Mar 2019 16:47

Rakesh wrote:It is a great honor for No 18 Squadron. Eagerly awaiting the re-raising of the squadron.

Would it be too much to ask to have this Squadron based at Srinagar again.

On another note, we should be celebrating. We few who have pushed the electrons of the internet a little harder. This is the red day when we raise our first Made In India Squadron after Marut.

Dear Admiral, why is the Tejas update saying last of the series aircraft. That wording should be coming after 18 Squadron order is filled no ?
Or we talking last of the series for IOC ? I think I answered myself.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 23 Mar 2019 18:20

Great day to be a LCA fan!!
LCA equipping 1 full squadron in IAF. (and we have 2 seaters and LSPs as well). May this be just 1 of many many many sq in IAF. May you touch the sky in Glory!!

Vamsi_V · Post by **Vamsi_V** » 23 Mar 2019 18:39

An elephant walk with the whole squadron would be eye popping to watch!!

sajaym · Post by **sajaym** » 23 Mar 2019 20:12

If 4 of the 8 planned for delivery in 2019 are already flying and one of them is the last for No.45 Sqn, then are the next 7 for the No.18 Sqn? I wonder whether No.18 will be co-located with No.45 or they will start off being based at HAL airport.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 23 Mar 2019 21:13

In the year 2019, they are trying to deliver 12 more aircraft.

It is a tough ask, but that is their target. For that to happen, both lines have to produce aircraft at one per 1.5 months (8 per year).

But, I have hope. They beat the March 31 target for all IOC deliveries.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 23 Mar 2019 21:49

Indranil wrote:In the year 2019, they are trying to deliver 12 more aircraft.

It is a tough ask, but that is their target. For that to happen, both lines have to produce aircraft at one per 1.5 months (8 per year).

But, I have hope. They beat the March 31 target for all IOC deliveries.

A Small correction
It has been reported that first FOC SP will fly in October 19, so they have 6 months to deliver 12 @ 1 a month from each line. If they achieve it then they should be able to produce 24 a year after that.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 23 Mar 2019 23:49

I would be surprised if there are no deliveries between now and October.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 24 Mar 2019 01:25

Just want to highlight that every drawback of this program has been answered in style by the team. Earlier it was the feasibility, then design, then capability of plan, then indigenization, then production rate.
If the guys stick to or even come close, we should be proud of them that they accomplished something that noone belived them to especially when all the odds were stacked against them. The SDREs are striving towards impossible

sarathy · Post by **sarathy** » 24 Mar 2019 01:54

Rakesh wrote:YES!!!!!! Great day for the country! Updating page 1!!!! Jai Hind!

Four out of Eight Tejas, planned for delivery in 2019, are already flying.

50% already done and March 31st is not over yet!

prasannasimha wrote:

Awesome news, Indeed. The production rate seems to be picking (much required). The Tejas Program is going from strength to strength. MP would be smiling in approval somewhere!

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 24 Mar 2019 03:42

Vamsi31 wrote:An elephant walk with the whole squadron would be eye popping to watch!!

YEah, put a gentle beast with a mind of its own and that has the strength to destroy everything in its path next to the only squadron!! You paki??

Unless there is another kind of elephant walk that doesn't involve an elephant...

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Mar 2019 04:56

Vamsi_V wrote:An elephant walk with the whole squadron would be eye popping to watch!!

I have changed your username. Please no numbers in username.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Mar 2019 05:03

ashishvikas wrote:SP15 was also piloted by Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd).

Please update first page.

Page 1 updated. Nice to know that No 45 Sqn achieved full
strength on Pakistan Day. Next move - take over air defence duties from No 51 Sqn in Srinagar

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Mar 2019 05:06

ArjunPandit wrote:Just want to highlight that every drawback of this program has been answered in style by the team. Earlier it was the feasibility, then design, then capability of plan, then indigenization, then production rate.
If the guys stick to or even come close, we should be proud of them that they accomplished something that noone belived them to especially when all the odds were stacked against them. The SDREs are striving towards impossible

There is a new article out on Social Media on about how 20 or so so concessions were made for FOC for the Tejas. If gurus are willing to provide a counter, I will post it here. Otherwise, will needlessly give newbies heart ache.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Mar 2019 05:08

Khalsa wrote:
Rakesh wrote:It is a great honor for No 18 Squadron. Eagerly awaiting the re-raising of the squadron.
Dear Admiral, why is the Tejas update saying last of the series aircraft. That wording should be coming after 18 Squadron order is filled no ?
Or we talking last of the series for IOC ? I think I answered myself.

Like you said, SP-15 is the last of the single seater, Mk1 IOC variants. But now that FOC was achieved on Feb 20, 2019...that does not matter. All future Mk1s will be FOC.

la.khan · Post by **la.khan** » 24 Mar 2019 07:07

Cybaru wrote:
Vamsi31 wrote:An elephant walk with the whole squadron would be eye popping to watch!!
YEah, put a gentle beast with a mind of its own and that has the strength to destroy everything in its path next to the only squadron!! You paki??

Unless there is another kind of elephant walk that doesn't involve an elephant...

What Vamsi probably meant was a parade/flypast of the entire Tejas squadron, 15-20 jets, up in the air, all at the same time

That would be a sight to behold

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 Mar 2019 07:20

Indian Air Force @IAF_MCC 4m4 minutes ago

#LIMA2019 : The tempo is up, the spirits are high & we are ready.

IAF contingent along with RMAF & LIMA ground support personnel have set up the flying complex for flying operations at Langkawi, Malaysia.
@DefenceMinIndia @SpokespersonMoD @hcikl @HALHQBLR @DRDO_India
https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1109629332018745344

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 24 Mar 2019 07:26

Rakesh wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:Just want to highlight that every drawback of this program has been answered in style by the team. Earlier it was the feasibility, then design, then capability of plan, then indigenization, then production rate.
If the guys stick to or even come close, we should be proud of them that they accomplished something that noone belived them to especially when all the odds were stacked against them. The SDREs are striving towards impossible
There is a new article out on Social Media on about how 20 or so so concessions were made for FOC for the Tejas. If gurus are willing to provide a counter, I will post it here. Otherwise, will needlessly give newbies heart ache.

We need to counter this nonsense. Please bring it here so that a proper rebuttal can be provided.

The other day somebody was vomiting on LCA FB page. Apparently, he "knew HAL from its inception", was questioning efficacy when others "are currently developing 6th generation and hypersonic fighters" !!!!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Mar 2019 07:36

Indranil wrote:We need to counter this nonsense. Please bring it here so that a proper rebuttal can be provided.

The other day somebody was vomiting on LCA FB page. Apparently, he "knew HAL from its inception", was questioning efficacy when others "are currently developing 6th generation and hypersonic fighters" !!!!

IR Saar, you are in full form today!!!

And my fault, it is 10 concessions and not 20. I was mistaken.

Behind final clearance for Tejas, 10 concessions given to fighter jet
https://theprint.in/defence/behind-fina ... et/208549/

22 March 2019

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 24 Mar 2019 08:26

Rakesh wrote:
Indranil wrote:We need to counter this nonsense. Please bring it here so that a proper rebuttal can be provided.

The other day somebody was vomiting on LCA FB page. Apparently, he "knew HAL from its inception", was questioning efficacy when others "are currently developing 6th generation and hypersonic fighters" !!!!
IR Saar, you are in full form today!!!

And my fault, it is 10 concessions and not 20. I was mistaken.

Behind final clearance for Tejas, 10 concessions given to fighter jet
https://theprint.in/defence/behind-fina ... et/208549/

22 March 2019

its a click bait by the print. the founding editor is coupta. i have have a lot of respect for him as a journalist but as Gen sundarji one told him he is a big bore despite being of low calibre. i am sure he visits this forum.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 24 Mar 2019 09:37

It means 8 LCA produced in Financial Year 2018-2019?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Mar 2019 09:44

Cybaru wrote:
Vamsi31 wrote:An elephant walk with the whole squadron would be eye popping to watch!!
YEah, put a gentle beast with a mind of its own and that has the strength to destroy everything in its path next to the only squadron!! You paki??

Unless there is another kind of elephant walk that doesn't involve an elephant...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephan ... ronautics)

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 24 Mar 2019 09:54

Frankly today's journalists are useless to the core. Not to toot my horn but i have led/leading cutting edge products that we supplied/supply to the best companies in the world. Believe me, we have 10-20% shortfall that is always there in one aspect or the other and this is a given. These idiots hardly know anything about anything and write some nonsense. I can bet my balls none of these fellows have ever been close to anything remotely related to product design and manufacturing and this includes a large segment of our forces. I can understand the force's point of view to a certain extent however, they need to understand designing and deploying products is not like going to big bazar when you ahve money and pulling stuff out of the racks and getting it home.

Either ways from the article, first of all the 10 concessions arent mentioned, now let us see what is in the article

1. fatigue test details - obviously there needs to be this specimen that tells us when ML Overhaul is needed or when some parts of airframe need to be strengthened. Although important, other items like NDE testing using Eddy current, ultrasound probes can be used conncurrently in the squadron and continuous monitoring can be done until the FTS data comes
2. A2A refuelling - late inclusion in requirements, but it has been included
3. Maintainability - any ab-initio software/hardware project will make mistakes on this count and this is the cost of not doing any prior engineering
4. production rate - well HAL seems to be pulling itself up, they havent missed deadlines over the last one year so i hope it is a hockey stick from here
5. Drop tank - the idiot doesnt even mention that supersonic friendly drop tanks are being validated, existing aircrafts do have drop tanks but not very optimized on drag
6. weapon configurations - this is an ongoing effort

For starters all of these idiots should be asked to pass a basic domain course before doing journalism, these idiots should reviisit the great industrial giant Tata's effort on the first Indica car.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 24 Mar 2019 10:04

I read through the article. Not worth my while to rebut it.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 24 Mar 2019 10:09

Well said. Journalism is the only "profession" in India where anyone with BA in sociology, without even real world experience in any product devpt, can sit and pontificate on any complex topic under the sun, from product design & development, to nukes on missiles. If these gasbags, try changing specs in the real world, or asking your 3rd party vendor to "qualify" something later in the product roadmap. You will be charged an arm and a leg, and even then no guarantee timeline won't be affected. Here ADA, HAL and the local guys burn the midnight oil to get it done.

Anyhow, the most important thing is 45 Squadron are Derby capable, the Tarang is working fine (as is the radar) - the primary "hitting capabilities" are all well in place. Now what will really make me outrageously happy is if the EL/L-8222s earmarked for the MiG-27 Upg are handed over to the 45Sq guys, as the 27 Upgrade airframes retire, and we deploy that interim capability asap on the Mk1s.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 24 Mar 2019 10:40

Indranil wrote:I would be surprised if there are no deliveries between now and October.

Please provide details if its not confidential.

SP1-SP16 done.
SP17-20 :Trainers - Prod drawing not released yet.
SP21-26 : FOC - Must be in Prod lines but expected to come out starting Oct.

@Rakesh - Can we please switch to counting production rate based on FY, everyone go with FY including HAL.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Mar 2019 11:06

ashishvikas wrote:@Rakesh - Can we please switch to counting production rate based on FY, everyone go with FY including HAL.

FY is from 01 April 20XX to 31 March 20XX?

Khalsa-ji, was mentioning the same thing I believe.

Let me see what I can do.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 24 Mar 2019 14:04

Indranil wrote:I would be surprised if there are no deliveries between now and October.

But HAL's Chairman himself is on record as having stated that with FOC certification having been granted on December 31, 2018, they would be able to deliver the first FOC Tejas Mk1 by October 2019..

Vamsi_V · Post by **Vamsi_V** » 24 Mar 2019 19:05

la.khan wrote:
Cybaru wrote:
YEah, put a gentle beast with a mind of its own and that has the strength to destroy everything in its path next to the only squadron!! You paki??

Unless there is another kind of elephant walk that doesn't involve an elephant...
What Vamsi probably meant was a parade/flypast of the entire Tejas squadron, 15-20 jets, up in the air, all at the same time That would be a sight to behold

Exactly, nothing involving a real elephant. I am definitely not a paki.

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 24 Mar 2019 19:26

Atmavik wrote:
Rakesh wrote: IR Saar, you are in full form today!!!

And my fault, it is 10 concessions and not 20. I was mistaken.

Behind final clearance for Tejas, 10 concessions given to fighter jet
https://theprint.in/defence/behind-fina ... et/208549/

22 March 2019

its a click bait by the print. the founding editor is coupta. i have have a lot of respect for him as a journalist but as Gen sundarji one told him he is a big bore despite being of low calibre. i am sure he visits this forum.

The article is negative and offers nothing new. The Print is largely discredited house with very significant anti government leanings and is widely seen as that. With respect to 'respect' for gupta, read the tweets and respect shall go down faster than a F16 downed by a Mig 21.

nash · Post by **nash** » 24 Mar 2019 20:45

Rakesh wrote:
ashishvikas wrote:@Rakesh - Can we please switch to counting production rate based on FY, everyone go with FY including HAL.
FY is from 01 April 20XX to 31 March 20XX?

Khalsa-ji, was mentioning the same thing I believe.

Let me see what I can do.

It can be something like this from the production line data:

FY14 (01/04/2014 - 31/03/2015) -> 1/year
FY15 (01/04/2015 - 31/03/2016) -> 1/year
FY16 (01/04/2016 - 31/03/2017) -> 2/year
FY17 (01/04/2017 - 31/03/2018) -> 5/year
FY18 (01/04/2018 - 31/03/2019) -> 7/year
FY19 (01/04/2019 - 31/03/2020) -> ?

In last ~12 months we have added 9 Tejas, so can we say Tejas production rate is 9/year.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Mar 2019 20:47

thewire, theprint, scroll.in, caravan, thequint, all seem like the offshoots and rebadgings of older discredited and outed MSM.

like rebadged mujahideen (sarkari taliban) they continue to wage holy war against the NDA

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 24 Mar 2019 20:52

Aree sirjis DDM ko choddo.... Our bird is putting on quiet the show in Malaysia- lot more energy in the display than what was shown at Aero India- I guess operating restrictions are less from the Malaysians.The cranking around during the 360 turn at 70 seconds into the video is a lot crisper than in the past- You can see the willingness to change direction. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_conti ... EWmKDqsvPk

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 24 Mar 2019 22:07

^^ Yes, performance at AI has always been a little bit on the cautious side. Tejas did superbly even during Bahrain were as on our skies, its displays are good but lacks energy as you put it.

Thanks for the video link.

Edit: After watching the video, may be its the angle or something, but it seems like the min height allowed at LIMA seems to be a lot higher than other shows. I think at AI, the min altitude is 500 ft. At LIMA, it seemed a lot more higher. Perhaps, once the event officially kicks off, we may get better videos.

jahaju · Post by **jahaju** » 24 Mar 2019 22:36

Production Line ... Production No ... Aircraft Serial No ... Aircraft First Flight ... Pilot……….Financial Year………..No of A/c Produced in FY
• Line 1 ... SP-01 ... LA-5001 ... 01-Oct-14 ... Air Commodore Kalianda Appaya Muthanna (Retd)…………2014-15………….A1
• Line 1 ... SP-02 ... LA-5002 ... 22-Mar-16 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)……….2015-16…………A1
• Line 1 ... SP-03 ... LA-5003 ... 28-Sep-16 ... Air Commodore Kalianda Appaya Muthanna (Retd)……….2016-17………….A1
• Line 1 ... SP-04 ... LA-5004 ... 03-Mar-17 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)……….2016-17…………A2
• Line 2 ... SP-05 ... LA-5005 ... 08-Feb-18 ... Air Commodore Kalianda Appaya Muthanna (Retd)……….2017-18………..A1
• Line 1 ... SP-06 ... LA-5006 ... 30-Jun-17 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)……….2017-18………..A2
• Line 1 ... SP-07 ... LA-5007 ... 12-Dec-17 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)……….2017-18………..A3
• Line 2 ... SP-08 ... LA-5008 ... 13-Mar-18 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)……….2017-18……….A4
• Line 1 ... SP-09 ... LA-5009 ... 24-Mar-18 ... Air Commodore Kalianda Appaya Muthanna (Retd)…………2017-18……….A5
• Line 1 ... SP-10 ... LA-5010 ... 26-Jul-18 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)……….2018-19………..A1
• Line 2 ... SP-11 ... LA-5011 ... 10-Oct-18 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)………2018-19………..A2
• Line 1 ... SP-12 ... LA-5012 ... 28-Nov-18 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)………..2018-19…………A3
• Line 2 ... SP-13 ... LA-5013... 30-Jan-19 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)………..2018-19……….A4
• Line 1 ... SP-14 ... LA-5014... 18-Jan-19 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)……….2018-19…………A5
• Line 2 ... SP-15 ... LA-5015 ... 23-Mar-19 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)………2018-19…………A6
• Line 1 ... SP-16 ... LA-5016 ... 11-Mar-19 ... Group Captain Kolal Krishnamurthy Venugopal (Retd)……….2018-19………..A7

If this format is ok. the first page can be updated by Mods.

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 24 Mar 2019 22:44

Zynda wrote:^^ Yes, performance at AI has always been a little bit on the cautious side. Tejas did superbly even during Bahrain were as on our skies, its displays are good but lacks energy as you put it.

Thanks for the video link.

Edit: After watching the video, may be its the angle or something, but it seems like the min height allowed at LIMA seems to be a lot higher than other shows. I think at AI, the min altitude is 500 ft. At LIMA, it seemed a lot more higher. Perhaps, once the event officially kicks off, we may get better videos.

No wonder Bandhar scooted.... The roll rates demonstrated later in that video are phenomenal and something the bandhar cannot dream of matching.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 25 Mar 2019 06:52

ashishvikas wrote:
Indranil wrote:I would be surprised if there are no deliveries between now and October.
Please provide details if its not confidential.

SP1-SP16 done.
SP17-20 :Trainers - Prod drawing not released yet.
SP21-26 : FOC - Must be in Prod lines but expected to come out starting Oct.

Let it come from official sources. Trainers will come after the 16 FOC aircrafts are delivered. 4 trainers on order.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 25 Mar 2019 06:59

Bharadwaj wrote:No wonder Bandhar scooted.... The roll rates demonstrated later in that video are phenomenal and something the bandhar cannot dream of matching.

Not just that, I think the low speed pass was slower than at AI. It was Rafale-esque. LCA can do a slow pass at just over 100 knots. And that minimum radius turn. Not many people showcase the outside turn as well. The Mirage 2000 used to do it regularly. It is the sign of well designed fuel system.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 25 Mar 2019 07:03

But I am little surprised that JF-17 scoots everytime that the LCA enters the frame. Yes, there is a qualitative difference in both the aircraft, but the JF-17 has a completely nonwestern systems dependency-line. That is a selling point for many countries!