Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

titash · Post by **titash** » 26 Mar 2019 10:47

gaurav.p wrote:https://english.manoramaonline.com/news ... ghter.html

HAL now says SP-21 will roll out by the end of this year. The entire 16 FOC fighters will be delivered to IAF during 2019-2021 – which again accounts for eight aircraft per year
the figure of 16 will remain elusive.

Not necessarily. It is a fact that the first 16 IOC aircraft are built to a different standard than the next 16 FOC birds. Likewise the 4 + 4+ 10 = 18 trainers are built to a different standard. In many ways, the 1st & 2nd lines are just getting warmed up, the subcontractors have started delivering sub assemblies, etc. All this is being put in place so that when the 73 Mk1A and 200+ Mk2 birds start rolling off the lines, we will see multi-year runs of 16-20 aircraft per year (roughly a squadron's worth a year...not bad at all)

In high volume manufacturing, the "setup time" to change jigs, fixtures, materials, equipment & recipes etc. for different product families can be quite debilitating

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 26 Mar 2019 11:04

Thats why somebody should have thought ahead and ordered 20 more or so of FOC aircraft to raise the production numbers by the time MK1A is ready, given our geography rather than this MMRCA, we should just ramp up LCA numbers to 32-40 per year, order 36 more Rafales and get on with LCA MK 2, AMCA and SU-57 production.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 Mar 2019 11:05

Export version is the key point. One of the key points of making stuff in house is to avoid leak of real performance parameters. Until and unless we too start making export specific items, we should not jump heedlessly into exports.

Anujan wrote:We should sell stuff to Malaysia. Many reasons:

* Yes they did not extradite people. Do you think they will still refuse to extradite if half their AF is our planes? I say we export them to Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Thailand and UAE as well. We should also have joint training. Do not think about what they did in the past, see how we can make sure they cannot escape our embrace in the future.

* Sure cheenis/Pakis might get their hands on our maal. Ensure it is an export version. In any case AFs get intelligence about planes through exercises, hacking, OSINT, other OEMs whose parts get integrated with ours. cheenis and Pakis already probably know everything about Mig 21, Mig 27, Mig 29, Su 30. All of our mainstays. Probably even Mirage 2000. It is operated by Egypt, UAE, Qatar

* The deal with export orders is that, they generate money. Which then goes into R&D. Take French AF for example, I will not be surprised if Rafale development was entirely funded through profits from Mirage 2000. Sell Tejas. Take the money, make MWF, Sell that. Take that money and make AMCA. This is pretty much the route that Unkil/France/Russies take.

Recall that SU-30 was a rust bucket, till IAF funded its development. Probably the same thing happened for Mig 29. Definitely happened for T-90.

SandeepR · Post by **SandeepR** » 26 Mar 2019 11:42

We shall export only after we have comfortable number of squadrons of Tejas (IOC/FOC/MK1A) flying and by the time we shall prepare our strategies for the possible configuration and other stuffs.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 26 Mar 2019 12:16

We could amortize the cost of increasing production capacity if we export.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Mar 2019 12:58

Without our own engine and radar its tough to export
Weapons are ok

First we would need gotus permission to export a product with ge engine

Also political tough for malaysia to accept israeli radar and weapons

But is good to project hard power and spread the faith about indian capability. Take along indian weapons also as they mature

The f22 performs in foreign airshows as does bombers though none are for export. Its a dhamkin and shownof power and makes the bandar skulk away in shame

Methinks its time to buy some long range bombers whether b1b or tu160

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 26 Mar 2019 13:10

I think thats the point, IAF wants to show an "Indian" fighter when it takes part in Airshows, there is no serious export potential to Malaysia.

jandash00 · Post by **jandash00** » 26 Mar 2019 13:59

nachiket wrote:
Kartik wrote:If anyone can find a picture of any SP series fighter where the pilot is wearing a DASH HMDS, please post it here.
I believe the DASH helmets have only been seen during HAL test flights. IAF may have ordered them separately and waiting on delivery perhaps.

Here are the SP-12 and SP-13 during their respective first flights. Pilot appreas to be wearing DASH helmet in both cases

I believe the pilots in BIAL were also wearing the DASH Helmets....Are we trying not to disclose it's capabilities or maybe there is some sensitivity due to the HMDS being of Israeli origin????

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 26 Mar 2019 14:02

Indranil wrote:But I am little surprised that JF-17 scoots everytime that the LCA enters the frame. Yes, there is a qualitative difference in both the aircraft, but the JF-17 has a completely nonwestern systems dependency-line. That is a selling point for many countries!

I was thinking the same, If I was running the JF-17 programme (i.e I am the Chinese CEO) why am I not putting my a/c there.
Unless the regime that supplies my engines has told my boss to steer clear as there is a Russian horse in the race.
Stick to the African orders, besides Burma has already bought from them anyway.

jandash00 · Post by **jandash00** » 26 Mar 2019 14:10

Khalsa wrote:
Indranil wrote:But I am little surprised that JF-17 scoots everytime that the LCA enters the frame. Yes, there is a qualitative difference in both the aircraft, but the JF-17 has a completely nonwestern systems dependency-line. That is a selling point for many countries!
I was thinking the same, If I was running the JF-17 programme (i.e I am the Chinese CEO) why am I not putting my a/c there.
Unless the regime that supplies my engines has told my boss to steer clear as there is a Russian horse in the race.
Stick to the African orders, besides Burma has already bought from them anyway.

I don't think the Russians would really ask the Chinese to do that...because Russians already enjoy a clout with the RMAF....Su-30 MKMs and Mig 29s both in RMAF's active service....Rather it is a win win situation for them either they get to sell their bird or at-least sell 100s of engines for the next couple of decades......

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 26 Mar 2019 14:14

Boss, that would be for serious sale, but why pull out when you have confirmed participation unless you feel something is seriously lacking.

jandash00 · Post by **jandash00** » 26 Mar 2019 14:23

Aditya_V wrote:Boss, that would be for serious sale, but why pull out when you have confirmed participation unless you feel something is seriously lacking.

Because something is seriously lacking....the JF 17's capability to out-maneuver a true 4+ Gen design A/c.....till LCA wasn't participating they had a serious price advantage with the other birds and would have sold their "You get what you pay for" BS as usual....now neither can they perform nor is it way too cheaper than LCA....hence time to save H&D and pull out saying Malyasia's PM gets a private show on Pakistan Day Parade...

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 26 Mar 2019 14:29

The amazing serviceability of the bandaar due to its ruski engines has made them the frontline fighters. With the CAPs to perform with whatever that is left, there isnt any spare for LIMA.

esommuk · Post by **esommuk** » 26 Mar 2019 17:40

YAAY!

Spectacular Debut By Indian LCA Tejas Fighter Jet At Malaysian Airshow
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/24527/ ... an_airshow

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 Mar 2019 17:50

The bandars phooos and Tejas's performance deflated several gasbags in Pakistan likely, and Shri Shri Prodyut "ah know everything " Das in India.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 26 Mar 2019 18:59

How is this a debut since Tejas flew at the Bahrain Airshow in 2016?

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 26 Mar 2019 19:07

Tejas @ LIMA

wow!!!!

LIMA'19 - Sneak peek of the Tejas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvaf6zcUhzM

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 26 Mar 2019 19:09

Malaysia Debut..

I saw a Cheeni style 'hidden behind the bushes' video of the Tejas doing its thing in LIMA.. It was super cool.. The -ve g turn was special for me.. Waiting for a TFTA 4k video..

No wonder the bundar is no where to be seen..

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 26 Mar 2019 19:16

In last 2-3 seconds of video, what is that opening at tail ? Parachute compartment ?

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 26 Mar 2019 19:28

^^ yes

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Mar 2019 19:58

suryag wrote:Tejas @ LIMA

wow!!!!

LIMA'19 - Sneak peek of the Tejas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvaf6zcUhzM

what a video! The roar at 0:34 is goosebumps times!

Shankas · Post by **Shankas** » 26 Mar 2019 20:10

esommuk wrote:YAAY!

Spectacular Debut By Indian LCA Tejas Fighter Jet At Malaysian Airshow
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/24527/ ... an_airshow

What a beautiful bird. Meghraj be kush hua.

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 26 Mar 2019 20:48

SaiK wrote:
suryag wrote:Tejas @ LIMA

wow!!!!

LIMA'19 - Sneak peek of the Tejas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvaf6zcUhzM
what a video! The roar at 0:34 is goosebumps times!

IAF should hire this person to do a full promo video on the Tejas.

naird · Post by **naird** » 26 Mar 2019 21:54

Bharadwaj wrote:
SaiK wrote:
what a video! The roar at 0:34 is goosebumps times!
IAF should hire this person to do a full promo video on the Tejas.

+1 this guy has done much better job than anyone else. Great soundtrack and excellent footage ! Hell , we BRF community should pool resources and hire him to officially capture Tejas !
This zimbly is not a priority for our babus.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 26 Mar 2019 22:38

Finish of fighters in video released by IAF and pictures by HAL looks very good and clean.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 26 Mar 2019 22:44

jandash00 wrote:
nachiket wrote: I believe the DASH helmets have only been seen during HAL test flights. IAF may have ordered them separately and waiting on delivery perhaps.

Here are the SP-12 and SP-13 during their respective first flights. Pilot appreas to be wearing DASH helmet in both cases

I believe the pilots in BIAL were also wearing the DASH Helmets....Are we trying not to disclose it's capabilities or maybe there is some sensitivity due to the HMDS being of Israeli origin????

NFTC and HAL pilots have the DASH, that is for sure. But wasn't sure of actual squadron pilots till I saw Wing Cmdr Tolani with the DASH HMDS in an IAF Tejas promotional video. Seems like not all pilots have the DASH.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 26 Mar 2019 22:46

Loved the high AoA low-speed pass.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 26 Mar 2019 22:48

Bharadwaj wrote:
SaiK wrote:
what a video! The roar at 0:34 is goosebumps times!
IAF should hire this person to do a full promo video on the Tejas.

Sadly it seems that the only time we'll get good videos of Tejas aerobatic flights will be when they go to foreign airshows. DD makes a hash of all its videos and Aero India shows have not produced very slick videos nor very energetic displays by Tejas pilots. Bahrain was the best so far and hoping for a similarly good performance at LIMA 2019.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 27 Mar 2019 00:31

Tejas-SPORT is very exciting. There used to be a MOFTU operating out of an air base in the NE. That’s probably decommissioned with its MiGs. Time to revive an OFTU with a Tejas version mated with Kaveri. That’s about 60 aircraft right there. Another 20 for Suryakirans and 20 for TACDE. A nice round 100 Tejas Mark 1B. Kaveri will be sufficient for these uses at 82 kN wet thrust.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 27 Mar 2019 00:38

If the LCA SPORT concept is proven out, with a working prototype, I'm pretty certain that the OFTU type unit will come back into existence. The best way to train rookies to become proficient in a host of skills that the Hawk AJT cannot teach them. For instance as Grp Cpt (Retd) HV Thakur mentioned, night strikes, cruise missiles, BVR fights, AESA radar and IRST. A 6 month course, where the pilots are trained based on the type that they will fly when they transition to squadrons.

Will bring much more skilled rookies into squadrons and streamline their training a great deal. Plus lighten the training load on operational squadrons and help bring their young pilots to operational pilots much faster.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 27 Mar 2019 00:43

Kartik wrote:
jandash00 wrote:
NFTC and HAL pilots have the DASH, that is for sure. But wasn't sure of actual squadron pilots till I saw Wing Cmdr Tolani with the DASH HMDS in an IAF Tejas promotional video. Seems like not all pilots have the DASH.

They probably do, but don't use it on a daily basis. Like all complex items, the DASH helmets too will have a certain operational life before re-inspection, checks, repair etc. For daily flights where they don't need the DASH, and can make do with std. instruments, they may well not use it. The DASH is not like the std. Ukrainian/Russian Sura-K/Schel-3UM type sight, which is much simpler and just has a swing down monocle & solid state sensors on the helmet itself.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 27 Mar 2019 00:46

Kartik wrote:If the LCA SPORT concept is proven out, with a working prototype, I'm pretty certain that the OFTU type unit will come back into existence. The best way to train rookies to become proficient in a host of skills that the Hawk AJT cannot teach them. For instance as Grp Cpt (Retd) HV Thakur mentioned, night strikes, cruise missiles, BVR fights, AESA radar and IRST. A 6 month course, where the pilots are trained based on the type that they will fly when they transition to squadrons.

Will bring much more skilled rookies into squadrons and streamline their training a great deal. Plus lighten the training load on operational squadrons and help bring their young pilots to operational pilots much faster.

I firmly believe its not just OFTU type capabilities that SPORT can open up but the entire gamut of night strikes & complex mission planning. A LCA SPORT type aircraft with additional radios, and that wide angle display can act like a battle manager for multiple other LCAs and even other fighters, given the AESA will have quite a decent range. Have it carry a Litening, a SkyShield EW pod (as Rafael has proposed) & it can literally be the protective shield for a group of LCAs which too can carry ASPJs like the wideband ELTA EL/L-8222s. The SPORT can act like a mini-AWACS and EW protective aid with the backseater firmly focused on a) alerting and guiding the rest of the strike package b ) deploying additional EW aids as necessary.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Mar 2019 00:52

Freeze at 2:40, you can see our two Tejas. [keep it full screen]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwArqmF9hlU

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 27 Mar 2019 00:58

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 27 Mar 2019 01:01

Note the manner in which AESA antenna are placed, to specifically jam GBAD radars.
SPORT with SkyShield for A2G EW can accompany a strike package of LCAs with Elta EL/L-8222 WB (for A2A & A2G threats in the forward & rear quadrants), and can provide them the specific protection against layered GBAD in strike missions. Power management may be a challenge for it to carry & operate EL/L-8222 and SkyShield + AESA but if that can be fixed, nothing like it. While we develop our own in-house ASPJ we should definitely pick up a dozen or more of these pods for our strike fleet. Even a couple per squadron would be a big boost.

Jayram · Post by **Jayram** » 27 Mar 2019 01:11

suryag wrote:Tejas @ LIMA

wow!!!!

LIMA'19 - Sneak peek of the Tejas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvaf6zcUhzM

Spectacular.. The tight composition, the music , turns and the final with the rain . outstanding.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 27 Mar 2019 01:14

More than anything my point is don’t give up on mating Kaveri with Tejas. For uses I identified somewhat degraded performance would be acceptable, and sufficient numbers can be produced to make it worthwhile.

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 27 Mar 2019 13:20

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 27 Mar 2019 18:45

The full show performance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BkQXDwDsfQ

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 27 Mar 2019 19:58

am in love with this bird, omg such a clinical clean display and great camera skill