Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

naird · Post by **naird** » 27 Mar 2019 20:25

IAF's official channel has Tejas video with commentary. Camera work is shody, but hey they are trying. IAF is definitely in love with Tejas..

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 27 Mar 2019 20:53

The combination of low rcs, agility and solid sensor setup means the bird would have caused hell to the solahs on FEB 27(iam not questioning the bisons suitability). The IAF has its reasons to wait till next year but the sooner one squadron is based near the porkis the better it is.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Mar 2019 00:45

Use this video for all your analysis
https://youtu.be/2BkQXDwDsfQ

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 28 Mar 2019 00:59

Very energetic performance by Grp Cpt Samarth "Danny" Dhankar. What a roll rate! and the minimum radius turn, the loop are all done in what appears to be as good a time if not better than the BIAL performance.

This would be one deadly bird close in, with that level of agility combined with the HMDS/R-73,ASRAAM or Python V missile. No wonder the IAF pilots are going ga-ga over it when they actually fly it.

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Mar 2019 01:09

imagine one with a meteor class missile.. truly the little David that will take out the Chinese "goliath" !!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Mar 2019 01:16

Can somebody calculate the STR from the above video?
The freaking GE engine is virtually smokeless.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 28 Mar 2019 01:24

She is a beauty for sure! Love the head on view around 3 minutes into the video. I can imagine the puff of smoke as a missile is launched.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Mar 2019 03:23

kit wrote:imagine one with a meteor class missile.. truly the little David that will take out the Chinese "goliath" !!

if
per shook-law, they would integrate only with eye-rope-eean radar onree. [BS news, politics for 83 mk2 radar]..but, when Uttam comes, you will find all kinds of BVRs lining up to tender to our RFIs.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 28 Mar 2019 04:32

Shameek wrote:She is a beauty for sure! Love the head on view around 3 minutes into the video. I can imagine the puff of smoke as a missile is launched.

You won't even see a puff of smoke if the missile being launched is the Astra BVRAAM. That is one sneaky missile that will leave no trace whatsoever thanks to its smokeless propellant.

chetonzz · Post by **chetonzz** » 28 Mar 2019 10:37

Mahathir Mohammad visiting JF-17 Blunder and LCA Tejas both within few days...

We can clearly see Ummah-Chummah effect

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 28 Mar 2019 11:55

Russian Yak-130, Indian Tejas, 3 Others Receive Malaysian Light Fighter RFI
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/24537/ ... JxlH2RN0QY

Asked about a possible conflict of interest in competing with India which is Russia’s biggest arms buyer, Gorbenko said “we welcome competition and wish our Indian colleagues all the best.”

The Yak-130 and the Indian Tejas are the only two aircraft which are participating in the flying displays at LIMA.

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 28 Mar 2019 12:05

chetonzz wrote:Mahathir Mohammad visiting JF-17 Blunder and LCA Tejas both within few days...

We can clearly see Ummah-Chummah effect

Clearly the Fizzleya love for the Ayf Sola (and it's paint scheme) influencing even the models.

Mean-e-while in Langkawi:

And yes, those extra inches always count

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 28 Mar 2019 16:35

Here's a video by local media about friendly Indo-Malaysian military relations with Tejas in the background.

Comments by IAF officer are in English..

LIMA 2019: Tejas saksi keakraban hubungan ketenteraan Malaysia-India
http://www.astroawani.com/video-malaysi ... dia-409881

esommuk · Post by **esommuk** » 28 Mar 2019 20:18

IMHO we should first try to replace our ageing birds with LCA Tejas and then look for potential export customers. That itself is a long drawn process for HAL and its supplier ecosystem. It is great optics to be invited and participate in international military air shows but then export is a different ball-game altogether and the logistical complexity. We have already experienced the pangs of exporting ALH Dhruv to Ecuador irrespective of the fact that there was pilot error which led to the crashes. The question we need to ask is whether our military-industrial complexes are ready for export-oriented manufacturing.

Theeran · Post by **Theeran** » 28 Mar 2019 21:42

esommuk wrote:IMHO we should first try to replace our ageing birds with LCA Tejas and then look for potential export customers. That itself is a long drawn process for HAL and its supplier ecosystem. It is great optics to be invited and participate in international military air shows but then export is a different ball-game altogether and the logistical complexity. We have already experienced the pangs of exporting ALH Dhruv to Ecuador irrespective of the fact that there was pilot error which led to the crashes. The question we need to ask is whether our military-industrial complexes are ready for export-oriented manufacturing.

What is export oriented manufacturing? Standards should be same irrespective. If you say flight capabilities that is different.
HAL and IAF have the correct approach here. If any orders materialise it boosts the supply chain. Industry would be in a great shape in the long run if they can bag even 10 orders.

sarathy · Post by **sarathy** » 28 Mar 2019 22:13

Theeran wrote:
esommuk wrote:IMHO we should first try to replace our ageing birds with LCA Tejas and then look for potential export customers. That itself is a long drawn process for HAL and its supplier ecosystem. It is great optics to be invited and participate in international military air shows but then export is a different ball-game altogether and the logistical complexity. We have already experienced the pangs of exporting ALH Dhruv to Ecuador irrespective of the fact that there was pilot error which led to the crashes. The question we need to ask is whether our military-industrial complexes are ready for export-oriented manufacturing.
What is export oriented manufacturing? Standards should be same irrespective. If you say flight capabilities that is different.
HAL and IAF have the correct approach here. If any orders materialise it boosts the supply chain. Industry would be in a great shape in the long run if they can bag even 10 orders.

The concern (and a correct one, IMO) is that we need replacing so many squadrons and at current pace that itself will take several years. It would be great to see production speed up or new lines to cater any order, though.

Theeran · Post by **Theeran** » 28 Mar 2019 22:38

HAL's concern is orders. They will be willing to have another line running if there are additional orders. The export showcase has no downside. If any orders come through HAL would not refuse.

negi · Post by **negi** » 28 Mar 2019 23:18

Actually if Tejas does end up winning it makes perfect sense to have someone from private industry run the assembly for Tejas E (export) , HAL should remain focussed on task at hand ; sorry to say but this is simply too much distraction if HAL is serious about delivering on the plethora of projects it has on it's plate. There is Mk2 , NLCA , AMCA and lot of stuff that has been promised there is enough action there. There is obviously an interest from certain segments to keep everything inside HAL umbrella but that's not in India's long term interests , we should spread out eggs in different baskets .

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Mar 2019 23:21

Negi, can you please email me?

negi · Post by **negi** » 28 Mar 2019 23:23

koshyr AT hotmail DOT com ? This one ?

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 28 Mar 2019 23:25

negi wrote:Actually if Tejas does end up winning it makes perfect sense to have someone from private industry run the assembly for Tejas E (export) , HAL should remain focussed on task at hand ; sorry to say but this is simply too much distraction if HAL is serious about delivering on the plethora of projects it has on it's plate. There is Mk2 , NLCA , AMCA and lot of stuff that has been promised there is enough action there. There is obviously an interest from certain segments to keep everything inside HAL umbrella but that's not in India's long term interests , we should spread out eggs in different baskets .

That would be unfair if HAL does all the hard work for the order and it goes to private industry. The best way is to have a exclusive line for export depending on the order quantity. Recently there was a report on a new HAL unit building Tejas at Salem

negi · Post by **negi** » 28 Mar 2019 23:35

^ Doing hard work is not bad that's what good organisations do , HAL can keep producing for the IAF it has to meet IAF orders first. It can also wean itself gradually from the grunt work and climb up the value chain i.e. be involved in fighter development much earlier and spend resources and time there instead of waiting for things to freeze and then happily churn the things from assembly line . Whether we like it or not manufacturing platforms on an assembly in numbers is both cost as well as time sensitive and hence it's better to offload a part if not most of it to private industry .

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 28 Mar 2019 23:38

Kakarat wrote:
negi wrote:Actually if Tejas does end up winning it makes perfect sense to have someone from private industry run the assembly for Tejas E (export) , HAL should remain focussed on task at hand ; sorry to say but this is simply too much distraction if HAL is serious about delivering on the plethora of projects it has on it's plate. There is Mk2 , NLCA , AMCA and lot of stuff that has been promised there is enough action there. There is obviously an interest from certain segments to keep everything inside HAL umbrella but that's not in India's long term interests , we should spread out eggs in different baskets .
That would be unfair if HAL does all the hard work for the order and it goes to private industry. The best way is to have a exclusive line for export depending on the order quantity. Recently there was a report on a new HAL unit building Tejas at Salem

Unfair to HAL? I have seen it all, read it all now

This is a competition, not a charity. Life isn't fair. If private industry is more efficient and or meets goals they win, no need to keep propping up lethargic DPSUs that can't compete on merit alone and need subsidies, mandated monopolies, or other unfair advantages to survive.

negi · Post by **negi** » 28 Mar 2019 23:45

I personally have high regards for HAL however we cannot ignore fundamental fact that eventually we are going to have to focus on efficiency , running a ship where deadlines will have to be met and slip ups will have repercussions , the private industry by it's very nature fits such a requirement . HAL can do the prototypes and even run assemblies for IAF however if we are to export and export in numbers we have to diversify our manufacturers.

Theeran · Post by **Theeran** » 28 Mar 2019 23:51

This all sounds OT and going towards disinvestment of PSU.

Fair or unfair HAL/ADA own the IP on the Tejas. It is for them to decide on splitting out the parts to private companies and would be in their interest for fast delivery. But they need the orders for that. These showcases are the sales pitch. No way I would discourage them from doing it.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Mar 2019 23:53

negi wrote:koshyr AT hotmail DOT com ? This one ?

yes

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 29 Mar 2019 00:16

Day2 LIMA. seems like a slightly modified routine or the camera angle is playing tricks.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 29 Mar 2019 00:28

ACtually, Tejas's demo is not so interesting for the aam aadmi, but for an enthusiast or aviator, it is. The whole flight sequence basically showcases the corners of envelop, maximum turn rate (horizontal and vertical), minimum radius, slow passes and climbout thereafter, long sustained outside turn. The engines are going full blast at all times.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 29 Mar 2019 00:42

Raveen wrote:
Kakarat wrote:
That would be unfair if HAL does all the hard work for the order and it goes to private industry. The best way is to have a exclusive line for export depending on the order quantity. Recently there was a report on a new HAL unit building Tejas at Salem
Unfair to HAL? I have seen it all, read it all now

This is a competition, not a charity. Life isn't fair. If private industry is more efficient and or meets goals they win, no need to keep propping up lethargic DPSUs that can't compete on merit alone and need subsidies, mandated monopolies, or other unfair advantages to survive.

My point is simple if HAL works and gets the order it would be unfair to give it to a private industry. If it has to go to a private industry then they have to do the marketing and get the order. Presently it is HAL which is marketing Tejas in Malaysia, with no private industry competing

negi wrote:I personally have high regards for HAL however we cannot ignore fundamental fact that eventually we are going to have to focus on efficiency , running a ship where deadlines will have to be met and slip ups will have repercussions , the private industry by it's very nature fits such a requirement . HAL can do the prototypes and even run assemblies for IAF however if we are to export and export in numbers we have to diversify our manufacturers.

This can happen only if the private industries are ready to invest and market Tejas in the international market and win the order by them self. It should not be HAL markets and gets the order and you give it to the private industry

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 29 Mar 2019 00:52

^^^true, also the fanbois having seen the existing demonstrations multiple times crave for something new.

Other tejas videos from the same person. Amatuerish camera work, someone can add a soundtrack and spam the bandar world

Day 1 = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qMXDAUyVdg
Day 3 = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywgG8UCYkK0

yak demo = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz6JfxG-YkE
using the same ruski trick of licensed manufacturing

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Mar 2019 01:37

He talks about Mk1a price at the end

10+ Incredible Facts About The HAL TEJAS Fighter Jet

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 29 Mar 2019 01:48

Kakarat wrote:
Raveen wrote:
Unfair to HAL? I have seen it all, read it all now

This is a competition, not a charity. Life isn't fair. If private industry is more efficient and or meets goals they win, no need to keep propping up lethargic DPSUs that can't compete on merit alone and need subsidies, mandated monopolies, or other unfair advantages to survive.
My point is simple if HAL works and gets the order it would be unfair to give it to a private industry. If it has to go to a private industry then they have to do the marketing and get the order. Presently it is HAL which is marketing Tejas in Malaysia, with no private industry competing

negi wrote:I personally have high regards for HAL however we cannot ignore fundamental fact that eventually we are going to have to focus on efficiency , running a ship where deadlines will have to be met and slip ups will have repercussions , the private industry by it's very nature fits such a requirement . HAL can do the prototypes and even run assemblies for IAF however if we are to export and export in numbers we have to diversify our manufacturers.
This can happen only if the private industries are ready to invest and market Tejas in the international market and win the order by them self. It should not be HAL markets and gets the order and you give it to the private industry

OT but refer to my comment about mandated monopolies - you have to be able to build it to market it. Chicken and egg.

esommuk · Post by **esommuk** » 29 Mar 2019 01:49

HAL can still earn royalties from privately produced Tejas if that be the case as they own the IP

esommuk · Post by **esommuk** » 29 Mar 2019 01:56

Every customer will have market specific adaptations over and above the baseline config. Does HAL have that kind of flexibility/agility in the manufacturing process? Companies that run such businesses likes of Lockheed, Boeing etc. are corporate entities free from any bureaucratic norms. The high risk (therefore reward) culture is deeply ingrained in such entities.

esommuk · Post by **esommuk** » 29 Mar 2019 02:04

And it is just not about the airframe or engine. The weaponry, avionics, software configs, integration of weapons, certification requirements etc. all call for deep relationships with potential suppliers and OEMs at different levels - from contractual to deep technical levels all within tight delivery milestones and lead times. I am just thinking aloud whether a defence PSU is agile enough to manage it all in a fiercely competitive commercial environment where skullduggery is the norm.

esommuk · Post by **esommuk** » 29 Mar 2019 02:15

It would be really great to see HAL allowing licensed production/integration of Tejas with the likes of Tatas, Ambani, Bharat Forge etc. simply to increase the production numbers for domestic requirements under the umbrella of HAL’s manufacturing programme. This way we could have multiple production lines across the country both involving both private and PSU and GOI will have confidence to place more back to back orders. Effectively the risk is minimised and timely induction achieved

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Mar 2019 02:16

Guys don't get distracted by this Malaysian shindig.
Lets stick to how HAL is supporting IAF.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 29 Mar 2019 03:36

I hope someday the Tejas flies at the NDA passing out parade. Many eons back I had witnessed the Suryakirans flying out of the morning sun straight at the audience and it was an experience I will never forget. The Tejas fits into that picture beautifully!

samsher · Post by **samsher** » 29 Mar 2019 08:52

MeshaVishwas wrote:
chetonzz wrote:Mahathir Mohammad visiting JF-17 Blunder and LCA Tejas both within few days...

We can clearly see Ummah-Chummah effect
Clearly the Fizzleya love for the Ayf Sola (and it's paint scheme) influencing even the models.

Mean-e-while in Langkawi:

And yes, those extra inches always count

Anyone notice Shri Mahathir wearing a Rafale hat? So they want to buy the Bundaar, Tejas and Rafale?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Mar 2019 09:00

No. He just wants freebies.
Waste fellow.
At the core he hates his ancestry.