Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 16 Apr 2019 13:52

Karthik S wrote:Who are OSINT experts?

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 16 Apr 2019 14:17

Karthik S wrote:Who are OSINT experts?

everyone now-a-days

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 16 Apr 2019 14:27

Mihir wrote:My expert assessment of publicly available imagery from the Nirbhay missile trial shows evidence of a spectacular failure.

Too good saar

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 16 Apr 2019 14:54

Operational Security and Intelligence ? Like a very very large number of posters here

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 16 Apr 2019 15:06

AdityaM wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Who are OSINT experts?
everyone now-a-days

schied, AIm and vipin narangi are the ones comes to my mind.
Does ghafoora get counted in this list? He's quite open in admitting allah is on their side

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 16 Apr 2019 17:50

jamwal wrote: Operational Security and Intelligence ? Like a very very large number of posters here

Open Source Intelligence..

Basically make $h1t up from pindi channa gas that suits your paymasters ..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Apr 2019 21:04

SaintSoldier wrote:Gurus,
Does Brahmos/Nirbhay has explosives like BCES, Incidiary, etc (Similar to Prithvis) or designed in special new way for better penetration:?:

Nirbhay is powered by a solid rocket booster for take off which is developed by Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL). Upon reaching the required velocity and height, a Turbofan engine in the missile takes over for further propulsion. The missile is guided by an inertial navigation system developed by Research Center Imarat (RCI) and a radio altimeter for the height determination.[12][13] The missile has a Ring Laser Gyroscope (RLG) based guidance, control and navigation system. It also has a MEMS based Inertial Navigation System (INS) along with the GPS system.[14] The missile has a length of 6 metres, width of 0.52 metres, a wing span of 2.7 metres and weighs about 1500kg. It has a range of about 1000 km and is capable of delivering 24 different types of warheads depending on mission requirements between 200-300kg. [8][10][15][16]

SandeepR · Post by **SandeepR** » 17 Apr 2019 14:27

Thanx Ramana!!

VikramA · Post by **VikramA** » 17 Apr 2019 16:01

According to media reports IA has ordered 210 spike missiles and 12 launchers. Considering small no of launchers it might be special case for SF

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 17 Apr 2019 16:38

The ratio of missiles to launchers is way too high.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 17 Apr 2019 16:45

This Spike purchase looks to be for LOC action.

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 17 Apr 2019 16:49

VikramA wrote:According to media reports IA has ordered 210 spike missiles and 12 launchers. Considering small no of launchers it might be special case for SF

Most likely a Testing batch. Will go to a unit in operational deployment . Just like the first batch of 350 Tavors we got.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 17 Apr 2019 17:02

coming to nirbhay missile, could it be a precursor to a system that delivers payload like a mothership and comes back..a different kind of missile/drone perhaps?

mody · Post by **mody** » 17 Apr 2019 18:17

JTull wrote:This Spike purchase looks to be for LOC action.

It is supposed to be LOC action. It was purchased as part of immediate purchase requirement directly from IA top brass. In wake of Pulwama, GOI has given approval for upto 300 crores worth of purchase can be made directly by the services if required for urgent operational requirement.

We do have a huge stock of Milan-2 and Konkurs. Why we don't use these instead? The missiles are wire guided, but for LOC action should be OK.
The Milan's are being replaced by Milan-2T with tandem warhead and the older Milan 2's will have to be scrapped when they reach the end of their storage life. Already large orders for Milan-2T have been placed and production is ongoing. Use our higher production capacity vis-à-vis the pukes to pummel them on the LOC, with volume fire, rather using few expensive imported systems.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Apr 2019 19:05

rkhanna wrote:
VikramA wrote:According to media reports IA has ordered 210 spike missiles and 12 launchers. Considering small no of launchers it might be special case for SF
Most likely a Testing batch. Will go to a unit in operational deployment . Just like the first batch of 350 Tavors we got.

The number of launchers and missiles indicates a SF unit being kitted out.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 17 Apr 2019 19:16

^^ Probably SOD.

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 17 Apr 2019 20:11

mody wrote:
JTull wrote:This Spike purchase looks to be for LOC action.

We do have a huge stock of Milan-2 and Konkurs. Why we don't use these instead? The missiles are wire guided, but for LOC action should be OK.

Could be that the forces need a man-portable system that does a 'top-attack' across the LOC.. of course our own Man portable missile is not yet ready..

Do we know which version of Spike was ordered?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Apr 2019 22:47

mody, Lets gather info on Milan, Milan 2T and Konkurs and Spike warheads and compare.
And the guidance and attack mode.

I think there is something about Spike that triggered this urgent procurement.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Apr 2019 23:52

Karthik S wrote:Who are OSINT experts?

Mihir & KarthikS, Here is a primer on how to be an OSINT expert on Indian military!!!!

https://warontherocks.com/2015/06/so-yo ... es-expert/

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Apr 2019 12:33

Very silly if we dont order the Astra itself in bulk.

http://forceindia.net/interview/chief-a ... ngh-dhanoa

What is the update on Astra air to air missile induction into the IAF?

Astra missile has been successfully fired from Su-30 aircraft. The Limited Series Production (LSP) version of the missile will be inducted in the IAF shortly followed by development of Astra New Generation (NG) with longer range.

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Apr 2019 12:44

Spike was being evaluated by the IA long long time ago; we discussed it here on this forum itself. It's yet another example of a long asked system being procured on lines of 'urgent need' , LoC being hot these days and all media focus on elections would have expedited the process, it's a rather small order and I think follow on may be placed depending on who forms the government.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Apr 2019 15:34

Atleast 1500 astra mk1 is needed for comfortable position ln aam

Mk2 will take another 5 yeas to ioc

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 18 Apr 2019 18:36

Spike has top attack capability and is fire and forget. But seems to be overkill if it's just for bunker busting roles.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Apr 2019 18:42

jamwal wrote:Spike has top attack capability and is fire and forget. But seems to be overkill if it's just for bunker busting roles.

Not really, it can clear many of the difficult posts of the Pakis on the LOC, allowing us to have a go at other PA soldiers

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 18 Apr 2019 18:47

Same job can be done with older gen ATGMs which we have in plenty. Spike is a massive overkill for stationery sangars and even most reinforced enemy posts which can be targeted from across border. Both types missiles need Line Of Sight anyway. So it's not that Spike can hit targets behind a hill.

Only reason I can think of that "the operational urgency of the equipment" has increased due to some reason which is not made public yet. Or Nag man-portable version will take more time. But then original requirement was for 8300+ missiles.

The decision was made despite the Indian army headquarters having highlighted "the operational urgency of the equipment," arguing that the Spike would give "a major capability impetus to troops deployed on the Line of Control (LC), especially in the current operational scenario." The deal included over 8,356 missiles, 321 plus launchers and requisite technology transfer to India's state-owned Bharat Dynamics Limited initially.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201809 ... d-missile/

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 18 Apr 2019 18:51

GautamK wrote:Gurus,
Does Brahmos/Nirbhay has explosives like BCES, Incidiary, etc (Similar to Prithvis) or designed in special new way for better penetration:?:

I have changed your username from SaintSoldier to GautamK.

If you do not like it, please choose one and I will make the change again.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Apr 2019 21:09

About Nirbhhay warhead I dont understand 24 types weighing 200-300 kg.

It looks like a bokwas Chinese menu type of selection.
Should have
1) Blast warhead.
2) Penetration warhead
3) Incendiary to take out BCW bunkers
4) Bomblets but is a waste of the accuracy
4) nuke

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Apr 2019 23:17

Read this

https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/npc/20 ... ch2018.pdf

06 March 2018

India scraps mega Israeli deal for anti-tank missiles
in favor of DRDO product

“On account of indigenous development of 3rd Generation Man-Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile
(MPATGM) system by Defence Research & Development Organization, it was, inter alia, decided that there is
no need to acquire ToT with the ATGM system,” Seetharam said.
The MPATGM, which weighs around 20 kg, can be used by Infantry Battalions against Armoured
vehicles up to 2.5km in range and will replace the Soviet-era anti-tank missiles used by Indian army. It will
compete with units such as the US’ Javelin missiles (picture above).
India is estimated to require about 80,000 anti-tank missiles. The DRDO variant, meanwhile, is expected
to complete final testing this year

Camel has managed to shove it's behind inside the tent , DRDO and it's NAG will be out in the desert (like always).

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Apr 2019 02:11

For people angry with Mihir,
Here is success of his psy-ops:

https://twitter.com/nileshjrane/status/ ... 72832?s=19

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 19 Apr 2019 06:25

VickyAvinash · Post by **VickyAvinash** » 19 Apr 2019 18:11

ramana wrote:For people angry with Mihir,
Here is success of his psy-ops:

https://twitter.com/nileshjrane/status/ ... 72832?s=19

Unbelievable. Success of Indian scientists is so hard for them to digest.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 19 Apr 2019 20:05

Mihir wrote:

Since you're now a sarkari babu (official), can we please tap into your quota for khamba?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Apr 2019 20:35

Mihir, Please write a short note on how you went about doing that criticism. It's very much needed on a variety of subjects.
Start a new thread
Debunking OSINT chatter.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 19 Apr 2019 21:02

jamwal wrote:Same job can be done with older gen ATGMs which we have in plenty. Spike is a massive overkill for stationery sangars and even most reinforced enemy posts which can be targeted from across border. Both types missiles need Line Of Sight anyway. So it's not that Spike can hit targets behind a hill.

Only reason I can think of that "the operational urgency of the equipment" has increased due to some reason which is not made public yet. Or Nag man-portable version will take more time. But then original requirement was for 8300+ missiles.
The decision was made despite the Indian army headquarters having highlighted "the operational urgency of the equipment," arguing that the Spike would give "a major capability impetus to troops deployed on the Line of Control (LC), especially in the current operational scenario." The deal included over 8,356 missiles, 321 plus launchers and requisite technology transfer to India's state-owned Bharat Dynamics Limited initially.
https://sputniknews.com/military/201809 ... d-missile/

You know, Spike represents family of missiles, Spike-ShortRange, MediumRange, LongRange, ExtralongRange and then NLOS w ranges from 800m to 25 km. Among this 25km Spike NLOS is notorious in mimicking artillery type strikes.

Keeping in mind the kind of activities carried out by IA(not IAF) recently, which one of the Spike family of missiles would be more suited ?

And you believe Sputniknews is more authentic ?

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 20 Apr 2019 11:17

Narad wrote:As per news reports this was the last development trial of the missile. Maybe the missile ie ready for production.
This particular test was designed to check flight at low altitudes.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/02/india-t ... -in-april/

WTH? how did I miss this news. Been waiting a long while. Lungi dance moment.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 21 Apr 2019 12:35

For what its worth, Sanjay Badri Maharaj on Twitter had said that this order was for SPIKE - Short Range, most probably for special forces.

Wikipedia description of the Spike-SR tells me that it is to give 'guided' option to troops who've been using Carl Gustav rocket-launcher. Also, it does not seem to have strong anti-tank capability but comes with warheads more optimized for urban warfare. From Wikipedia:

The warhead can either be a multi-purpose tandem shaped-charge warhead with blast-fragmentation effect[10] or a new Penetration-Blast-Fragmentation (PBF) variant leveraged from the MATADOR's anti-structure warhead to equip maneuvering forces in urban environments to breach enemy cover and structures with a lethal blast effect.

Maximum range is 1.5 km while minimum is 50 meter.

Images of Spike-Short Range missile. To me, this really looks like a very potent weapon which adds a hitherto unavailable capability. Could be of considerable use on LOC by both special forces and regular infantry for special cases.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 21 Apr 2019 12:42

Adding more details about Spike SR from another article:

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2016/06 ... k-missile/

Known in Hebrew as TACT — an acronym that translates into Short Range Personal Missile — Spike SR is can be equipped with two warheads, one for moving targets and the other a blast fragmentation penetrator against bunkers.

Designed for use by infantry in congested urban environments, Spike ER has an effective range from 50 meters to 1.5 kilometers, executives said.

"It's a new generation. It's not a guided rocket and certainly not a bazooka. It's the first time users can bring fire and forget missile capability down to the tactical level," said Aviram Levy, senior marketing director at Rafael's Precision Tactical Weapon Systems Directorate, part of the firm's Land and Naval Division.

"Our challenge was to take a very short, small-diameter missile, augment its penetration capability and make it versatile enough to hit from only 50 meters to up to 1.5 kilometers away. And then we had to wrap it all in a package that is very simple to operate," Levy said.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 21 Apr 2019 14:22

So, 210 missiles and 12 launchers, assuming 2x per bunker, that is still ~100 bunkers and 12 assault teams. Not a bad deal. Lots of red faces in the PA once these get into action.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 21 Apr 2019 17:44

You know, Spike-SR (range:1.5 km) doesn't need a laucher. It is shoulder fired.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 21 Apr 2019 18:20

Which is why, I am not sure it is SR. I think it is MR, same variant tested by Army and now being procured under emergency purchase for Infantry Ghatak/SF teams.