Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 21 Apr 2019 10:47

Rumors around that next version is P-18. But don't think even design is finalized yet.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 21 Apr 2019 11:40

Karthik S wrote:Rumors around that next version is P-18. But don't think even design is finalized yet.

I wish MoD and Indian Navy would first focus on reducing the build times as every new class needs that much rework and cost increases by the shipyards. It’s frankly an embarrassment that a country of India’s ambitions takes 10+ years from ordering to delivery of a destroyer. From what I read, there was a 4 year delay in P15B due to delays in supply from Russia and Israel. No word if the delay originated because of delay in placing orders or delays by the suppliers.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 21 Apr 2019 16:34

Karthik S wrote:Rumors around that next version is P-18. But don't think even design is finalized yet.

All the more reason to order a 4xP-15C, so the line is kept humming. Given the slow build times, and no forward movement in indigenous turbine tech, better to keep the pipeline going.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 21 Apr 2019 16:36

Our Rajputs are getting to be long in the tooth, so these additional ships will help replacing them. P-18 can come as an entirely new capability, methinks.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 21 Apr 2019 17:34

It is high time the monoploy of PSU's in building large warships is broken and L&T gets a chance to build atleast a couple of them if not more. The sarkari babus should learn to do more tasks concurrently and minimize time wastage. The fitment time taken by the PSU units is beyond outrageous.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 21 Apr 2019 17:48

The private sector has been given more than a chance, but in traditional Indian business style, they roll around money into their other civilian side businesses and was sometimes unable to raise capital for quick turnarounds for sub-contracts. Result is navy getting jittery and encasing bank guarantees, gutting some of the earlier players like Pipavav Defense.

The public sector yard has no such issues due to specific budgeting and the comfort of govt not allowing them to go belly up is there for Navy. But they suck in keeping delivery timelines

The deeper pocketed Adani and Reliance acquired some of the struggling yards, but get accused of being cronies of PM etc. So It is back to drawing boards about private sector participation for naval shipbuilding.

Maybe change the state yards into a landlord model? Eg: lease specific docks for private players for a specific time of project ?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 21 Apr 2019 18:44

I think we need to figure out the timeline between ordering, keel laying, launch, and commissioning. I think that we do ok till the launch stage. The fitting out stage is a problem.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 21 Apr 2019 18:56

hnair wrote:The private sector has been given more than a chance, but in traditional Indian business style, they roll around money into their other civilian side businesses and was sometimes unable to raise capital for quick turnarounds for sub-contracts. Result is navy getting jittery and encasing bank guarantees, gutting some of the earlier players like Pipavav Defense.

Is that true for L&T? They seem to be doing okay: (x-post from ICG thread)

arshyam wrote:3 done, 4 more to go. Time to have Kattupalli move up the value chain and build Naval corvettes and the like? Compared to Pipavav, which has been struggling with the equivalent (by size) OPVs for the Navy, Kattupalli has demonstrated good capability. GSL would of course vociferously object, but these guys need to be rewarded for good performance.

Private shipyard breaks the record! 50th warship of L&T gets commissioned - Financial Express

Yet again another Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV) ICGS Veera for the Indian Coast Guard (ICG) is commissioned ahead of time which has been built by Larsen & Toubro Ltd (L&T) Kattupalli Yard.

The company has been building vessels under Warship License since receiving first Ministry of Defence (MoD) contract in March 2010, all the designing and construction is done in house and indigenously.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 21 Apr 2019 18:59

hnair wrote:Maybe change the state yards into a landlord model? Eg: lease specific docks for private players for a specific time of project ?

There is no way the unions will allow it. There are tried and tested methods like "job action", to slow down production in such circumstances. Private players will also be loathe to sign up to build something in an area they don't own. Too much risk.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 21 Apr 2019 19:07

I had huge hopes on Kattupalli. L&T is right there among reliable companies. IIRC, it was developed primarily for subs. But no orders so far, very disappointing. Hope MoD looks into construction timelines. It's atrocious at the moment.

VikramA · Post by **VikramA** » 21 Apr 2019 19:23

if L&T gets additional orders it will be for building 4 LHDs. when NEWS rose in 2017 of IN wanting 4 LHDs only reliance and L&T were left standing for competition. since then ,the financial condition of reliance shipyard has gone south with only L&T left in the fray.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 21 Apr 2019 23:56

Karthik S wrote:Not surprising, we are very lazy and useless in bringing down construction time. Even paks if they had money would have been faster than us.

Delay is due to engines, gearbox & shafts coming late from Ukraine and radar/missiles from Israel

John · Post by **John** » 22 Apr 2019 02:03

tsarkar wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Not surprising, we are very lazy and useless in bringing down construction time. Even paks if they had money would have been faster than us.
Delay is due to engines, gearbox & shafts coming late from Ukraine and radar/missiles from Israel

I believe even the original timeline called for 6 year build time?

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 22 Apr 2019 12:47

tsarkar wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Not surprising, we are very lazy and useless in bringing down construction time. Even paks if they had money would have been faster than us.
Delay is due to engines, gearbox & shafts coming late from Ukraine and radar/missiles from Israel

Were the orders placed late or did the suppliers mess up?

chola · Post by **chola** » 22 Apr 2019 13:00

The mighty INS Kolkata invading Qingdao, home of the chini North Sea Fleet:

The CO Aditya Hara makes a striking figure:

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 22 Apr 2019 17:31

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=189801
Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
19-April-2019 11:57 IST
IN Ships to participate in International Fleet Review at Qingdao, China

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 23 Apr 2019 01:43

arshyam wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Rumors around that next version is P-18. But don't think even design is finalized yet.
All the more reason to order a 4xP-15C, so the line is kept humming. Given the slow build times, and no forward movement in indigenous turbine tech, better to keep the pipeline going.

There is no P-15C. Why does the design even need to change after a mere 4 ship production run? This is the kind of thinking that led to only 3 Shivaliks ever being produced while we went back to the Russians for more Frigates while waiting on the P-17A. There is no reason the P-15B's themselves cannot be ordered in greater quantities. No changes needed since time is of the essence with the Chinese pumping out Destroyers like pizzas out of a pizza oven.

John · Post by **John** » 23 Apr 2019 02:41

^ IMO P-15B will the end of the line for P-15 family, the zorya have too much political baggage, there is not much room to increase the size of this design and vessels weren't designed to best utilize new design techniques (which equates to 6-7 year build time not factoring the usual delays). Any future DDG class will be based on P-17A.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 23 Apr 2019 12:05

Work resumes full steam on Maldives coastal radars

After an initial stumble following political uncertainty in the Maldives, work on setting up a coastal surveillance radar chain in the island nation has resumed full steam, with technical teams from India finishing installation work to get the system operational.

The radar chain—which will link up with similar systems in India, Sri Lanka, Mauritius and Seychelles—will provide a comprehensive live feed of ship movements in the Indian Ocean Region that can be used by friendly navies.

Sources have told ET that seven out of the 10 radars that had to be set up are now being fitted with the latest systems that can relay location information, videos and images live to a central command unit. While the civil work on the seven radars had been completed, the political turmoil before the change of government in November 2018 had held up operationalisation of the chain.

vonkabra · Post by **vonkabra** » 23 Apr 2019 15:56

New silos on the INS Kolkata:
https://twitter.com/PremJoshi300/status ... 4918002688

Any ideas what they might be for?

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 23 Apr 2019 16:21

^^
Discussed before without a clear answer.
The Tweet OP also seems to accept Vishnu NDTV's answer that it is the cover of the B'Mos.

chola · Post by **chola** » 23 Apr 2019 16:23

vonkabra wrote:New silos on the INS Kolkata:
https://twitter.com/PremJoshi300/status ... 4918002688

Any ideas what they might be for?

It looks like they are covers for something. Whether they are covering actual tubes is up to debate.

Here they look like freestanding covers left amidship.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 23 Apr 2019 16:43

Doesn't look like VLS. They look too close to the adjacent structure. Evil kafirs disturbing peace in subcontinent with such pics.

jpremnath · Post by **jpremnath** » 23 Apr 2019 17:29

^^ iirc, the covers of inclined launchers for Brahmos made by L&T was remarkably similar to this. But then again these are not inclined...

John · Post by **John** » 23 Apr 2019 18:38

jpremnath wrote:^^ iirc, the covers of inclined launchers for Brahmos made by L&T was remarkably similar to this. But then again these are not inclined...

The inclined launcher is simply structure to hold brahmos canisters, As i noted earlier these covers seem to be much bigger than covers for Brahmos canisters, perhaps they are actually covers sitting on top of something.

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... ssile.html

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 24 Apr 2019 20:35

India's Indigenous Aircraft Carrier, INS Vikrant, To Be Delivered By 2021: Navy Chief

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-i ... ef-2026089

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 24 Apr 2019 20:54

^^
After a long time SNaik Saar.Hope to read a lot more of your posts on the NauSena going ahead.

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 25 Apr 2019 19:11

Vice-Admiral’s daughter fighting Modi govt has been living in Navy facility against rules-Snehesh Philip/CouptaJi
https://theprint.in/defence/vice-admira ... 26416/amp/
Controversial character V Adm Verma in the news again.

negi · Post by **negi** » 26 Apr 2019 01:03

Living in Kota house

it is the poshest club in Dilli (even afsars from other 2 services want to spend time there). Fauj has accumulated too many career types whose have made services glorified gobmint daftar.

hgupta · Post by **hgupta** » 26 Apr 2019 02:18

MeshaVishwas wrote:Vice-Admiral’s daughter fighting Modi govt has been living in Navy facility against rules-Snehesh Philip/CouptaJi
https://theprint.in/defence/vice-admira ... 26416/amp/
Controversial character V Adm Verma in the news again.

Isn't that a court martial offense on the part of V. Admiral Verma for knowing that a family member has stayed past the normal period of welcome and abusing that privilege for his or her gain?

I would use that and beat that over the head of V. Admiral Verma and make him leave the service earlier than intended if he doesn't want to lose his pension and full rank.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 26 Apr 2019 02:22

All the skeletons are coming out now, from Vice Admiral Bimal Verma's closet! As per the news article, the Vice Admiral's daughter has been there since 2008. 11 years and no one said a thing. Vice Admiral Bimal Verma files a petition in the Armed Forces Tribunal, contesting the Govt's decision to appoint Vice Admiral Karambir Singh as the next Naval Chief and out comes the knives.

navneeet · Post by **navneeet** » 26 Apr 2019 15:53

DrRatnadip · Post by **DrRatnadip** » 26 Apr 2019 19:04

Sad loss of life.. Rest in peace sir..

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 26 Apr 2019 19:10

This is just sad. Om shanti.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 26 Apr 2019 19:46

Sad news.
Vikra was scheduled to participate in Varuna exercise starting early May.
In addition to the carrier, India will deploy diesel-electric submarine INS Shankul, destroyer INS Chennai, frigate INS Tarkash, tanker INS Deepak and P-8I and Dornier aircraft.
France will be represented by carrier CdG, air-defense destroyer Forbin, FREMM frigate Provence, ASW frigate Latouche-Tréville, nuclear attack submarine Amethyste and tanker Marne.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 26 Apr 2019 20:03

Very Sad. My condolences to the family of Lt Cdr D S Chauhan.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 26 Apr 2019 21:27

negi wrote:Living in Kota house it is the poshest club in Dilli (even afsars from other 2 services want to spend time there). Fauj has accumulated too many career types whose have made services glorified gobmint daftar.

Swara Bhaskar - Daughter of Commodore Uday Bhaskar.
The entire Ramdas family.
Vishnu Bhagwat clan.
Arun Prakash's nephew..
Nanda family..
This Verma chap.. also implicated in the war room case.

So many worthies writing stupid letters.. List is really long. Elitism is a huge problem in Indian society. These days I have little patience for these things. These people are also stirring shit up on twitter.. Provided the barest of criticism, they block and run and hide behind their credentials.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 26 Apr 2019 23:41

chola wrote:The mighty INS Kolkata invading Qingdao, home of the chini North Sea Fleet:

chola Ji :

Pardon my ignorance, but usually on the front end of a ship there is the name of the ship and there are Anchors on the both sides of the front end of the ship.

On the front of the INS Kolkota there is no name of the ship and instead of Anchors there seep to be something like the "scoop" which one finds on a Bulldozer Scoop.

Please let me know as to why there is no name and no Anchors on the INS Kolkata

Many thanks in Advance

Cheers

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 27 Apr 2019 01:42

hgupta wrote:
MeshaVishwas wrote:Vice-Admiral’s daughter fighting Modi govt has been living in Navy facility against rules-Snehesh Philip/CouptaJi
https://theprint.in/defence/vice-admira ... 26416/amp/
Controversial character V Adm Verma in the news again.
Isn't that a court martial offense on the part of V. Admiral Verma for knowing that a family member has stayed past the normal period of welcome and abusing that privilege for his or her gain?

I would use that and beat that over the head of V. Admiral Verma and make him leave the service earlier than intended if he doesn't want to lose his pension and full rank.

Adding my two cents. The overstaying is a symptom of the entitlement that many senior officers of the Services have. I'm sure if you scan all the Service messes and hostels, you'll find many, many more such cases. After all this girl was living there since 2008, when the officer would have been a Commodore. This is a systemic issue and should be looked at separately from his fight with the MoD.

In parallel, all those who enabled the daughter to overstay (not just V Admiral Verma) should be punished for this unofficial perk that he had. We must also end other symbols of elitism as soon as we see them - the stars that some officers put on their golf carts and the rankwise changing rooms at Service swimming pools.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 27 Apr 2019 07:07

Why?

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/11 ... 9678972928 ---> Had married just last month. Was 30 years old. Heartbroken for the family of Lt Cdr DS Chauhan who died fighting a fire in board INS Vikramaditya on Friday. Tough questions & inquiry necessary. RIP, DS.