Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Really good news.
if VCAS Air Marshal RKS Bhadauria does get promoted to CAS, it will be a massive shot in the arm for the Tejas program. While the current CAS, Air Marshal BS Dhanoa has been extremely supportive of the LCA program, my belief is that AM RKS Bhadauria will be even more supportive, given how well versed he is with the LCA program and having flown it himself. It will augur very well for the Medium Weight Fighter program to have a strong supporter as CAS.
It also displays a significant departure from the past, where IAF officials deputed to the LCA program basically saw their career up ended by senior IAF officials, who saw it as a cushy posting. Sadly, the IN suffers from that malaise, with Commander Maolankar's career suffering despite his immense contribution to the Naval LCA program.
if VCAS Air Marshal RKS Bhadauria does get promoted to CAS, it will be a massive shot in the arm for the Tejas program. While the current CAS, Air Marshal BS Dhanoa has been extremely supportive of the LCA program, my belief is that AM RKS Bhadauria will be even more supportive, given how well versed he is with the LCA program and having flown it himself. It will augur very well for the Medium Weight Fighter program to have a strong supporter as CAS.
It also displays a significant departure from the past, where IAF officials deputed to the LCA program basically saw their career up ended by senior IAF officials, who saw it as a cushy posting. Sadly, the IN suffers from that malaise, with Commander Maolankar's career suffering despite his immense contribution to the Naval LCA program.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Cmd Balaji had some really harsh views on the Navy and its treatment of the NLCA program. It was Parrikars single handed support which kept the program going. 18 meetings with NLCA team to track, monitor their progress, support them! Balaji sir has a lot of respect for Parrikar sir.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
OH.....MY.....GOODNESS!!! What a GORGEOUS bird!!!
What amazing timing....drag & drop into new window. I think I can speak for everyone on this forum when I say - PROUD!!!!! JAI HIND!!!!
https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 1145315333 ---> Weekend Pics: No 45 Sqn CO, Group Captain Samrath “Danny” Dhankar heads out for the Tejas display at Aero India 2019.
What amazing timing....drag & drop into new window. I think I can speak for everyone on this forum when I say - PROUD!!!!! JAI HIND!!!!
https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 1145315333 ---> Weekend Pics: No 45 Sqn CO, Group Captain Samrath “Danny” Dhankar heads out for the Tejas display at Aero India 2019.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
WOW ! The first pic took my breath away! The Tejas is a real looker from that angle.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
This is a very very cursory reading of how promotions happen in forces ; asli duniya alag hai , it's a GoTR level game out there. Services have their own caste system and the ACRs are a joke , unlike the private sector the bright ones have nowhere to go they usually take retirement after completing mandatory tenure and move to the private sector , of course not everyone who rises to the top is a rank idiot but the point is the brightest never stay .Kartik wrote:Really good news.
if VCAS Air Marshal RKS Bhadauria does get promoted to CAS, it will be a massive shot in the arm for the Tejas program. While the current CAS, Air Marshal BS Dhanoa has been extremely supportive of the LCA program, my belief is that AM RKS Bhadauria will be even more supportive, given how well versed he is with the LCA program and having flown it himself. It will augur very well for the Medium Weight Fighter program to have a strong supporter as CAS.
It also displays a significant departure from the past, where IAF officials deputed to the LCA program basically saw their career up ended by senior IAF officials, who saw it as a cushy posting. Sadly, the IN suffers from that malaise, with Commander Maolankar's career suffering despite his immense contribution to the Naval LCA program.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
>>brightest never stay
C'mon man, that's a gross generalization and you know it. Some of the guys do stick around and persevere, even rise to the top of the system.
C'mon man, that's a gross generalization and you know it. Some of the guys do stick around and persevere, even rise to the top of the system.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Negi is right, none of the best make it to the top. Prem Bhagat Victoria Cross never made COAS. Neither did Sagat Singh - who fought a 2.5 front war (China at Nathu La & Cho La 1967, Bangladesh Liberation 1971, Mizo insurgency) and established CIJWS. Nor did Hanut Singh rise to top nor did Harbaksh Singh.Karan M wrote:>>brightest never stay
C'mon man, that's a gross generalization and you know it. Some of the guys do stick around and persevere, even rise to the top of the system.
In more recent times, Sheonan Singh (Engineer, Paracommando, Sri Lanka veteran and nephew of "the" revolutionary Bhagat Singh) never made it to the top.
Gen Bewoor, who surrendered Jelep La to China without a fight in 1965 was made COAS instead of Prem Bhagat. Sagat Singh refused to vacate Nathu La in 1965.
On the other hand jokers like Pran Nath Thapar made. His son Karan Thapar goes around besmirching Sam Maneckshaw's reputation.
Last edited by tsarkar on 07 May 2019 19:28, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Am not sure how people come to conclusions of who is very supportive and who isnt. Both Balaji and Maolankar moved from Navy to ADA. So no way they would have had any role in the IN thereafter. AM Nambiar & Bhaduria did what their roles required them to do. AM Bhaduria also negotiated the Rafale deal. Just because something happened in their watch doesnt mean they're supportive or negative. They just dispassionately do their jobs.Kartik wrote:Really good news.
if VCAS Air Marshal RKS Bhadauria does get promoted to CAS, it will be a massive shot in the arm for the Tejas program. While the current CAS, Air Marshal BS Dhanoa has been extremely supportive of the LCA program, my belief is that AM RKS Bhadauria will be even more supportive, given how well versed he is with the LCA program and having flown it himself. It will augur very well for the Medium Weight Fighter program to have a strong supporter as CAS.
It also displays a significant departure from the past, where IAF officials deputed to the LCA program basically saw their career up ended by senior IAF officials, who saw it as a cushy posting. Sadly, the IN suffers from that malaise, with Commander Maolankar's career suffering despite his immense contribution to the Naval LCA program.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Some Thoughts About India’s LCA Programme
Having come so far down the developmental path, the LCA project must not stop at 123 or even 250 aircraft, but, along with the enhanced Kaveri engine should form the core of all future fighter evolution in India
April 25, 2019 Editor Defence Industry, Top Stories
By Admiral (Retd) Arun Prakash
https://www.raksha-anirveda.com/some-th ... programme/
Having come so far down the developmental path, the LCA project must not stop at 123 or even 250 aircraft, but, along with the enhanced Kaveri engine should form the core of all future fighter evolution in India
April 25, 2019 Editor Defence Industry, Top Stories
By Admiral (Retd) Arun Prakash
https://www.raksha-anirveda.com/some-th ... programme/
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
This is the most balanced article I've read on NLCA. The NLCA is still evolving, as evidenced by the recent redesign seen at Aero India with new control surfaces. (BTW the gentleman heading NLCA Project was my secondary school classmate.)jaysimha wrote:Some Thoughts About India’s LCA Programme
Having come so far down the developmental path, the LCA project must not stop at 123 or even 250 aircraft, but, along with the enhanced Kaveri engine should form the core of all future fighter evolution in India
April 25, 2019 Editor Defence Industry, Top Stories
By Admiral (Retd) Arun Prakash
https://www.raksha-anirveda.com/some-th ... programme/
Its very difficult to make fundamental structural changes in a done design. And changes made in one area may require changes in another area thus creating a vicious cycle of its own.
Carrier requirements have always been more stringent than land based fighters, which is why carrier conversions of land based fighters failed spectacularly, examples being F-111B and F-16N or the WW2 Seafire conversion of the Spitfire.
The Spitfire was superb as a land based fighter but abysmally poor in the carrier role.
On the other hand, carrier aircraft built to tougher specs perform superbly when land based, examples being the F-4, A-4 and A-7 that served admirably in many air forces on land. Rafale is a recent example. Even the F-14 is still serving in Iran.
I would have been happier if MWF was designed keeping naval requirements in mind and then adapting for Air Force - like the Rafale.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Thanks tsarkar for you perspective.
Keeping naval requirements in mind while drawing up the initial stage is the best option.
it will sill be too heavy for the air force version but most other parts can be common.
Besides its avionics that is the most expensive part nowadays.
Keeping naval requirements in mind while drawing up the initial stage is the best option.
it will sill be too heavy for the air force version but most other parts can be common.
Besides its avionics that is the most expensive part nowadays.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Also folks don't speculate on IAF chain of command in Tejas thread.
Its not germane nor proper.
Its not germane nor proper.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
I have deleted my posts Ramana-ji.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
tsarkar wrote:
Am not sure how people come to conclusions of who is very supportive and who isnt. Both Balaji and Maolankar moved from Navy to ADA. So no way they would have had any role in the IN thereafter. AM Nambiar & Bhaduria did what their roles required them to do. AM Bhaduria also negotiated the Rafale deal. Just because something happened in their watch doesnt mean they're supportive or negative. They just dispassionately do their jobs.
And Commander Maolankar never "moved" to the ADA either. He too was deputed to the NFTC by the Navy but he continues to be an Indian Navy officer. He did get promoted to Commodore from a Commander
Livefist link
Last edited by ramana on 08 May 2019 03:45, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: No need to come off sounding rude. ramana
Reason: No need to come off sounding rude. ramana
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Mao sir got stuck at Commodore (IIRC automatic promotion from Captain) while his peers got promoted further. He seems to be blaming it on his stint with LCA.
Anyway, I heard a lot of not so good words about him from ADA folk.
Anyway, I heard a lot of not so good words about him from ADA folk.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
HAL is considering a retractable AAR for Mk1A. RFI is out.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Why add the complexity and consequent delay at this point? Has the IAF even asked for a retractable AAR? This doesn't make sense when speed is of the essence.Indranil wrote:HAL is considering a retractable AAR for Mk1A. RFI is out.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
A retractable AAR is not necessarily that complex, as metal cutting and fitting it into the aircraft body, if it withdraws into a receptacle, in a casing on the aircraft exterior. But I wonder what is driving this requirement, because the casing for the AAR (with its mechanism to extend, withdraw the AAR) won't be light either, will add drag. Only one reason that's possible, is a permanent AAR is coming in the way of pilot visibility, in which case it makes perfect sense to add provided it does not drastically affect airframe performance otherwise.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Not privy to internal decision making, but I don't like this scope creep.
I think HAL has decided to go slow on Mk1 and bank on more FOC orders till Mk1A arrives. I can't think of any other conclusion. Unfortunate, if you ask me.
I think HAL has decided to go slow on Mk1 and bank on more FOC orders till Mk1A arrives. I can't think of any other conclusion. Unfortunate, if you ask me.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
The AAR probe is sticking out like a boner into the FOV of the radar (was. now moved back IIRC) and to the airflow over the sensors (worked around in software). So, it sure make sense from a 'demanding discerning customer' to ask for a solution onlee.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
How do the Rafale and M-2000 manage with thier Fixed Probes?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Well, that depends on the placement of the retractable AAR probe as well. If it ends up being more side on to the pilot then that has its own disadvantages, as a basket may end up being uncomfortably close to the canopy at the time of the pilot trying to stick it in.Dileep wrote:The AAR probe is sticking out like a boner into the FOV of the radar (was. now moved back IIRC) and to the airflow over the sensors (worked around in software). So, it sure make sense from a 'demanding discerning customer' to ask for a solution onlee.
But I too don't like this at all. Not unless this is only being looked at being introduced after the first Mk1As are delivered on schedule with the fixed probe. Nothing should delay the Mk1A production and delivery schedule.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
About 2 months ago in March-2019, SP-15 and SP-16 had their first flights. Any info on SP-17, SP-18, when are we going to see them in air?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
The next to fly will be SP-21, should be in the second half of this year. SP-17 to 20 are trainers and will take timeBhaskar_T wrote:About 2 months ago in March-2019, SP-15 and SP-16 had their first flights. Any info on SP-17, SP-18, when are we going to see them in air?
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
SP-17 to SP-20 and SP-37 to SP-40 are trainers which will come after SP-36.Bhaskar_T wrote:About 2 months ago in March-2019, SP-15 and SP-16 had their first flights. Any info on SP-17, SP-18, when are we going to see them in air?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
As great the Tejas is it cannot escape the limitations of it's compact/small size , all things attached to it as an after thought will have to incur significant trade offs , chasing omni role nonsense is a mirage and has no use beyond ppt giri , all military platforms that have served long and have been successful have been specialists and not generalists (which is what an omni role fighter is). Even Rafale M is no great carrier AC it's a compromise for it does not have same bring back capacity as the F-18 SH and has to land with a high nose pitched up which means pilot has a small window for aligning with the arrester wire now of course may be for the French Navy it's specs meet their needs and hence it is not for us or anyone to criticise it but from a technical pov if one goes with a single platform approach one will always incur more complexity and will have to make more trade offs. A military industrial complex like we have will have better chances of success and meeting user needs if we try to keep things simple and not overload same platform with both IAF and IN needs the idea of using same resources and achieving commonality between an IAF and IN fighter while alluring is very hard to achieve in real world specially for someone who has never built a supersonic fighter for both IAF and IN before and hence does not know the gotchas before hand.
What will happen with NLCA is same as Tejas Mk1 i.e. like the MWF the IN needs will result in NLCA 2 or whatever one may wish to call , to sound nice we would have learnt a great deal in the process (hopefully) .
What will happen with NLCA is same as Tejas Mk1 i.e. like the MWF the IN needs will result in NLCA 2 or whatever one may wish to call , to sound nice we would have learnt a great deal in the process (hopefully) .
Last edited by negi on 12 May 2019 12:55, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
couldnt they have just stuck with huge mirage2000 type subsonic drop tanks if all they wanted was patrol endurance.
we have 400+ combat aircraft and 6 tankers , no $$ to get more, but no everyone must have tanker capability
we have 400+ combat aircraft and 6 tankers , no $$ to get more, but no everyone must have tanker capability
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
The m2k efts are really massive, 1.5+ tons each. Doubt the Tejas could carry such bags under wing. Get more MKI with extra eft plumbing and have these act as tankers for Tejas.Singha wrote:couldnt they have just stuck with huge mirage2000 type subsonic drop tanks if all they wanted was patrol endurance.
we have 400+ combat aircraft and 6 tankers , no $$ to get more, but no everyone must have tanker capability
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Each MKI probably has at most 1/10th the fuel (transferable), capacity of a single A330 MTTR. If we are serious about air refueling we'll have to pony up for a couple dozen dedicated big birds.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Reason m2k carries massive tanks is due to fuel guzzling M53 engine WHILE Tejas has fuel sipping GE 404IN engine so smaller tanks are enoughCain Marko wrote:The m2k efts are really massive, 1.5+ tons each. Doubt the Tejas could carry such bags under wing.....Singha wrote:couldnt they have just stuck with huge mirage2000 type subsonic drop tanks if all they wanted was patrol endurance.
we have 400+ combat aircraft and 6 tankers , no $$ to get more, but no everyone must have tanker capability
Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
Snecma M53-P2
General Electric F404
Code: Select all
Specific fuel consumption:
0.90 (kg/daN.h) Dry engine thrust
2.10 (kg/daN.h) military thrust
Code: Select all
Specific fuel consumption:
Military thrust: 0.81 lb/(lbf·h) (82.6 kg/(kN·h)
Full afterburner: 1.74 lb/(lbf·h) (177.5 kg/(kN·h)
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019
I saw some random YouTube Defence channel video (not sure the information is credible)...Indranil wrote:HAL is considering a retractable AAR for Mk1A. RFI is out.
https://youtu.be/SNNAt89hH6Q
According to this video, retractable AAR probe is planned in MWF, not Mk1A...
If that's case, then Mk1A won't get delayed much...