Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

[rgosain]

Ignoring the angry tirade in general , I'm stlil curious about Dalrymple - in what capacity does he live in India long term ? His wiki indicates he's been resident in India for a good part of the year , for decades now. What sort of visa category is that ?

business/work permit. he is allegedly a writer. part of the lootyen's mafia.

just like mark tully who is far more decent.

many bollywood actresses are here on work permits because they are not Indian nationals.

Tully was born in India; he claims to be anglo indian and is fluent in hindi and might be a pio. He did a program comparing retirement in India vs the UK and health care costs for a geriatric, so he might still be in India.

[mmasand]

Ignoring the angry tirade in general , I'm stlil curious about Dalrymple - in what capacity does he live in India long term ? His wiki indicates he's been resident in India for a good part of the year , for decades now. What sort of visa category is that ?

A business visa most likely, I have friends who have been around for nearly a decade, if you have a local partner you may be granted 5 year renewable business visas. I believe there is an overhaul on the cards for entrepreneurs.

[Suraj]

Ignoring the angry tirade in general , I'm stlil curious about Dalrymple - in what capacity does he live in India long term ? His wiki indicates he's been resident in India for a good part of the year , for decades now. What sort of visa category is that ?

business/work permit. he is allegedly a writer. part of the lootyen's mafia.

That doesn't tell me anything at all. Of course it would be some kind of a work visa. What category ? Who is the sponsor ? What are the terms of such visas ? Work visas are typically time bound and can only be reissued a certain number of times.

Being extremely angry and posting large amounts of noise with little substance is not helpful to the forum.

I am interested in knowing what sort of Indian work visa permits a foreigner to work for 25+ years in India continuously. Technically, such a visa extandable for so long, should not exist. That is what I am getting at - with details, it can be posted on MEA/Sushma Swaraj's channel.

Such visas should either be eliminated, or made time bound, with only a fixed number or renewals up to N years. Further, India should amend its finance laws to make such 'workers' liable to pay taxes on global income in India.

[chetak]

business/work permit. he is allegedly a writer. part of the lootyen's mafia.

That doesn't tell me anything at all. Of course it would be some kind of a work visa. What category ? Who is the sponsor ? What are the terms of such visas ? Work visas are typically time bound and can only be reissued a certain number of times.

Being extremely angry and posting large amounts of noise with little substance is not helpful to the forum.

I am interested in knowing what sort of Indian work visa permits a foreigner to work for 25+ years in India continuously. Technically, such a visa extandable for so long, should not exist. That is what I am getting at - with details, it can be posted on MEA/Sushma Swaraj's channel.

Such visas should either be eliminated, or made time bound, with only a fixed number or renewals up to N years. Further, India should amend its finance laws to make such 'workers' liable to pay taxes on global income in India.

Can't help you there.

This being angry bit is now beginning to grate.

You have repeated this multiple times and on a number of occasions. I have kept quiet.

I wonder how only you see this.

[Suraj]

This being angry bit is now beginning to grate.

You have repeated this multiple times and on a number of occasions. I have kept quiet.

I wonder how only you see this.

I recommend reading this post once again. Please do count the number of sentences you end with multiple question marks. You could insult the intelligence of the mod team by claiming those extra question marks aren't an indicator of angry vehemence, of course.

Please realize that the lack of formal censure is an act of goodwill, not to be misused or taken for granted, and certainly not questioned.

We do not encourage posters to come here posting angry rants, even if they somehow manage to keep within guidelines by just sounding very angry but otherwise not breaking rules. The reason is that it precipitates anger in others which DOES lead to someone breaking forum rules and requiring moderation.

[chetak]

This being angry bit is now beginning to grate.

You have repeated this multiple times and on a number of occasions. I have kept quiet.

I wonder how only you see this.

I recommend reading this post once again. Please do count the number of sentences you end with multiple question marks. You could insult the intelligence of the mod team by claiming those extra question marks aren't an indicator of angry vehemence, of course.

Please realize that the lack of formal censure is an act of goodwill, not to be misused or taken for granted.

We do not encourage posters to come here posting angry rants, even if they somehow manage to keep within guidelines by just sounding very angry but otherwise not breaking rules. The reason is that it precipitates anger in others which DOES lead to someone breaking forum rules and requiring moderation.

Suraj,

read the overwhelming numbers of my posts right from day one.

wherever I have used question marks, they all have been "extra question marks".

I may have not used it in very few cases because I forgot.

I start many sentences with small letters too and not caps

It's my thing.

just like another poster uses a beer drinking gif as a signature. It's his thing.

It's harmless and not indicative of any deep seated psychological disorder.

[Suraj]

Sorry 'that's the way I post' is not an adequate response. You've been asked not to post in that manner, so please don't do it.

[chetak]

Deleted

[sanjaykumar]

I thought only the Irish were capable of such unreasoning hatred of the British.

Let me amend my observation; when India becomes a mature nation after outgrowing its adolescent rage, there is no reason for India not to host British immigrants if the latter so chose.

[Suraj]

Tully was born in India; he claims to be anglo indian and is fluent in hindi and might be a pio. He did a program comparing retirement in India vs the UK and health care costs for a geriatric, so he might still be in India.

It's not clear how Tully would qualify as a PIO. Being born in India doesn't offer it, otherwise Cliff Richard, Kipling, Douglas Jardine and Colin Cowdrey, among others would be PIOs. He was never an Indian citizen, nor were his parents. He was not in India at the time of Independence and could not choose. The only form of permanent residence India has offered is the OCI/PIO mechanism, though there are proposals for something like a green card or ILR.

I'm really interested in understanding how Tully or Dalrymple can reside in India for decades on a succession of work visas, something that no Indian can do in UK. There are fixed limits to UK Tier 2 visas (and US H1) , and staying longer means taking the path to permanent residency (ILR and GC respectively) .

[sanjaykumar]

I believe Cliff Richard is half Indian.

[mmasand]

Tully was born in India; he claims to be anglo indian and is fluent in hindi and might be a pio. He did a program comparing retirement in India vs the UK and health care costs for a geriatric, so he might still be in India.

It's not clear how Tully would qualify as a PIO. Being born in India doesn't offer it, otherwise Cliff Richard, Kipling, Douglas Jardine and Colin Cowdrey, among others would be PIOs. He was never an Indian citizen, nor were his parents. He was not in India at the time of Independence and could not choose. The only form of permanent residence India has offered is the OCI/PIO mechanism, though there are proposals for something like a green card or ILR.

I'm really interested in understanding how Tully or Dalrymple can reside in India for decades on a succession of work visas, something that no Indian can do in UK. There are fixed limits to UK Tier 2 visas (and US H1) , and staying longer means taking the path to permanent residency (ILR and GC respectively) .

Dalrymple as I have explained earlier can be on a business visa, the erstwhile entrepreneur visa that can be renewed as long as you can prove legitimacy. Hundreds of foreign nationals have partnerships with local partners, particularly with transnational companies to satisfy compliance. AFAIK, Tier 2 visas can be renewed once followed by an application for ILR.

[Karan M]

This being angry bit is now beginning to grate.

You have repeated this multiple times and on a number of occasions. I have kept quiet.

I wonder how only you see this.

He's not the only one, let me tell you. Several moderators have raised this issue. Suraj is merely voicing the opinion out loud, and politely at that.

The angry rants have grated on many & please take what Suraj says seriously, about the lack of formal censure being an act of goodwill. Please take a look at many of your posts, they are angry rants or tirades.

The end result is they either deviate the topic, or incite others to post their tirades in turn. Neither of which is a desirable outcome for a serious discussion. And they also add to moderator challenge.

[Suraj]

Dalrymple as I have explained earlier can be on a business visa, the erstwhile entrepreneur visa that can be renewed as long as you can prove legitimacy. Hundreds of foreign nationals have partnerships with local partners, particularly with transnational companies to satisfy compliance. AFAIK, Tier 2 visas can be renewed once followed by an application for ILR.

These require an Indian sponsor, as far as I know. Regardless of who Dalrymple's sponsor is (and this would also be very good to know - who keeps sponsoring him so many times ?), the very notion of an infinitely renewable visa is not sensible. It certainly has no reciprocal basis. 1 renewal, at most two, and then they're done.

[Karan M]

I thought only the Irish were capable of such unreasoning hatred of the British.

Let me amend my observation; when India becomes a mature nation after outgrowing its adolescent rage, there is no reason for India not to host British immigrants if the latter so chose.

Seriously, why are you taking some members dislike of extremely brutal British colonialism and extending that to the entire nation. With patronizing comments like "adolescent rage" and making comments about India not being a "mature nation", when it has gone out of its way, ridiculously so even, to let bygones be bygones?

This is Bharat Rakshak forum. Please understand what those terms mean and don't make such gratuitous comments about India in the future. This is not the first time either.

[sanjaykumar]

The comment was not directed at India, it was a reference to the screed as the context would make clear. India has been magnanimous given the British record. The closest I can think of was Haile Selassie's magnificent directive to his people to conduct themselves above the Italians after the latter's defeat.

[mmasand]

Dalrymple as I have explained earlier can be on a business visa, the erstwhile entrepreneur visa that can be renewed as long as you can prove legitimacy. Hundreds of foreign nationals have partnerships with local partners, particularly with transnational companies to satisfy compliance. AFAIK, Tier 2 visas can be renewed once followed by an application for ILR.

These require an Indian sponsor, as far as I know. Regardless of who Dalrymple's sponsor is (and this would also be very good to know - who keeps sponsoring him so many times ?), the very notion of an infinitely renewable visa is not sensible. It certainly has no reciprocal basis. 1 renewal, at most two, and then they're done.

India doesn't allow for permanent residency and forces you down the path of citizenship, this includes spouses as well. This case aside, we don't want to discourage genuine entrepreneurs from coming to India, it projects soft power. We surely shouldn't be insecure of a Scotsman in a country or 1.2 billion people. He's not half as bad as a Dinesh D'souza or Keith Vaz.

Not for this thread, but, the Home ministry really needs to introspect immigration, the decentralisation of records, and visas from a fresh perspective. I know of several Indian origin Brits who have moved to India to set up their own ventures but unfortunately, due to the lack of availability of documents of their ancestors, cannot apply for OIC.

[Peregrine]

I believe Cliff Richard is half Indian.

sanjaykumar Ji : Sir Ji, Cliff Richard - Original name Henry Webb - is an Anglo Indian Born in Luknow. His Mother was a Dormitory Matron at La Martinière School Lucknow.I believe his Father worked for Spencer or Keventers who were the Caterers to the Indian Railways Trains as well as Station Dining Halls. His Father the managed the Howrah Station Dining Hall and Henry Webb went to St. Thomas School in Howrah bhefore migrating to the UK.

Cheers

[Suraj]

India doesn't allow for permanent residency and forces you down the path of citizenship, this includes spouses as well. This case aside, we don't want to discourage genuine entrepreneurs from coming to India, it projects soft power. We surely shouldn't be insecure of a Scotsman in a country or 1.2 billion people. He's not half as bad as a Dinesh D'souza or Keith Vaz.

Not for this thread, but, the Home ministry really needs to introspect immigration, the decentralisation of records, and visas from a fresh perspective. I know of several Indian origin Brits who have moved to India to set up their own ventures but unfortunately, due to the lack of availability of documents of their ancestors, cannot apply for OIC.

Visa policies are driven by three factors:
* Self interest
* Reciprocity
* General policy for visa category

"Insecurity" is an unnecessary non-sequitur. I have not stated as much as a word about Dalrymple's or Tully's work. It is not relevant to the topic, and not worth a response.

There's no other nation with a non-immigrant visa that is infinitely renewable. Granted, many others have an acquired permanent residency as opposed to one that is jus sanguinis; we do not, however that is being remedied. The multiple extensibility of such visas must be removed, by reciprocity, 1-2 renewals are sufficient. Long term permanent residency rights would also require complete reporting of global income to Indian tax authorities, under penalty of jail time.

Investor/entrepreneur visas (e.g. US E-2 and EB-5) universally require financial skin in the game, i.e. a large upfront investment (say Rs.2-3 crore), and continued demonstration of growth in business. A writer or journalist certainly would not be eligible.

National interest requires that we have levers of control and coercion over agents of influence, whether it's requiring them to them to apply for repeated entry, knowledge of their global income sources, or more. It is irrelevant whether their output is good or bad - the power must be there.

The current situation, where an agent of influence can live and own property in India for a better part of a year, on an essentially permanent visa, is not in our interest.

[sanjaykumar]

I believe Cliff Richard is half Indian.

sanjaykumar Ji : Sir Ji, Cliff Richard - Original name Henry Webb - is an Anglo Indian Born in Luknow. His Mother was a Dormitory Matron at La Martinière School Lucknow.I believe his Father worked for Spencer or Keventers who were the Caterers to the Indian Railways Trains as well as Station Dining Halls. His Father the managed the Howrah Station Dining Hall and Henry Webb went to St. Thomas School in Howrah bhefore migrating to the UK.

Cheers

Heheheh, from orbital mechanics to Cliff Richard, surfing BRF is an education.

Please no saar for me, I detest honourifics.

[mmasand]

I agree, our babus have to wake up and smell the coffee. The eligibility criteria for any investor visa should be reciprocal and tied down to a minimum investment, I will go onto also add that there should be a pre-condition of an extradition treaty between the two country(ies) in the scheme. We don't want financial crimes to undermine the scheme.

Post-Brexit, which I honestly don't think will happen in its current form, there will be pre-qualification points to arrive at the table to discuss a trade deal, and the govt of the day, Tories or otherwise. I've been looking at contributions of Indians(Tier 2) to the UK economy in the last 7 years, it looks promising but there are teething problems with overseas seed funding and tax harmonisation. There is little or no data available the other way around despite the Make In India push, there is no agency tasked with tracking.

[sanjaykumar]

To explicate a little, I have been listening to some compositions of Sahir's and Azmi's. I am amazed that their poetry was/is so widely appreciated and beloved. This is very unlike anything in the West.

What does this have to do with Indian bitterness over British rule?

A culture that understands something like ...I was anxious the flowers would wilt...but I am relieved that they are made of paper, is degraded by hatred, however justified.

[chetak]

This being angry bit is now beginning to grate.

You have repeated this multiple times and on a number of occasions. I have kept quiet.

I wonder how only you see this.

He's not the only one, let me tell you. Several moderators have raised this issue. Suraj is merely voicing the opinion out loud, and politely at that.

The angry rants have grated on many & please take what Suraj says seriously, about the lack of formal censure being an act of goodwill. Please take a look at many of your posts, they are angry rants or tirades.

The end result is they either deviate the topic, or incite others to post their tirades in turn. Neither of which is a desirable outcome for a serious discussion. And they also add to moderator challenge.

noted.

[chetak]

sanjaykumar Ji : Sir Ji, Cliff Richard - Original name Henry Webb - is an Anglo Indian Born in Luknow. His Mother was a Dormitory Matron at La Martinière School Lucknow.I believe his Father worked for Spencer or Keventers who were the Caterers to the Indian Railways Trains as well as Station Dining Halls. His Father the managed the Howrah Station Dining Hall and Henry Webb went to St. Thomas School in Howrah bhefore migrating to the UK.

Cheers

Heheheh, from orbital mechanics to Cliff Richard, surfing BRF is an education.

Please no saar for me, I detest honourifics.

Any relation to the webbs of bangalore

[Peregrine]

sanjaykumar Ji : Sir Ji, Cliff Richard - Original name Henry Webb - is an Anglo Indian Born in Luknow. His Mother was a Dormitory Matron at La Martinière School Lucknow.I believe his Father worked for Spencer or Keventers who were the Caterers to the Indian Railways Trains as well as Station Dining Halls. His Father the managed the Howrah Station Dining Hall and Henry Webb went to St. Thomas School in Howrah bhefore migrating to the UK.

Cheers

Heheheh, from orbital mechanics to Cliff Richard, surfing BRF is an education.

Please no saar for me, I detest honourifics.

sanjaykumar Ji :

Sir Ji, Does the Lion forget to Roar? NO! Does the Peregrine stop being a Hawk against Terroristan : NO!

Thus I follow my Sanskriti!

So, Kind Sir, kindly accept my use of honourifics.

Many thanks in advance.

Cheers

[Peregrine]

Heheheh, from orbital mechanics to Cliff Richard, surfing BRF is an education.

Please no saar for me, I detest honourifics.

Any relation to the webbs of bangalore

chetak Ji

Having visit Bangalore a couple of times all one remembers is Lager at Koshi's and Kamth's for memorable Udupi Cuisine especially the Dosai and Tomato Omelette.

Never met a Webb Family in Bangalore. Sorry.

Cheers

[chetak]

Heheheh, from orbital mechanics to Cliff Richard, surfing BRF is an education.

Please no saar for me, I detest honourifics.

Any relation to the webbs of bangalore

chetak Ji

Having visit Bangalore a couple of times all one remembers is Lager at Koshi's and Kamth's for memorable Udupi Cuisine especially the Dosai and Tomato Omelette.

Never met a Webb Family in Bangalore. Sorry.

Cheers

They used to run a telco service center on MG road, sold the land to rahejas (query) but retained a small parcel where they now run a gas station (webb's garage, i think) bang in front of their original land. I wondered if they were part of the same family.

the telco service center moved to an industrial suburb of bangalore and is still being run by the same guys i think

Its about 2-3 kms on MG road from koshy's. can't miss it, saar.

next time you are in town, give me a head's up.

[Peregrine]

They used to run a telco service center on MG road, sold the land to rahejas (query) but retained a small parcel where they now run a gas station (webb's garage, i think) bang in front of their original land. I wondered if they were part of the same family.

the telco service center moved to an industrial suburb of bangalore and is still being run by the same guys i think

Its about 2-3 kms on MG road from koshy's. can't miss it, saar.

next time you are in town, give me a head's up.

chetak Ji :

Thanks for your invitation.

Meantime await your reply by E-Mail.

Cheers

[kancha]

Bradford: Teenage army cadet guilty of bomb plot

[vinod]

Theresa May resigns!

[yensoy]

Descendant of Cyril Ratcliffe should be offered the task of planning Brexit. That person is uniquely qualified.

[mmasand]

BoJo, who remarked that Indo_UK ties should be advanced due to India's growing appetite for single malt whilst visiting a Gurdwara, in all probability will be the PM. We find out in July.

[yensoy]

BoJo, who remarked that Indo_UK ties should be advanced due to India's growing appetite for single malt whilst visiting a Gurdwara, in all probability will be the PM. We find out in July.

It's time to encourage Scots to vote for freedom. Then there will be no reason to engage with the Brits anymore.

[mmasand]

BoJo, who remarked that Indo_UK ties should be advanced due to India's growing appetite for single malt whilst visiting a Gurdwara, in all probability will be the PM. We find out in July.

It's time to encourage Scots to vote for freedom. Then there will be no reason to engage with the Brits anymore.

That's not happening any time soon, IndyRef 2 is a distant fallacy. We should engage with the Brits post Brexit, we have a lot to collaborate specially in Defence, why not take back some of the fruits of our wealth they took.

[souravB]

Mmasand saar, rumors has it that if you scratch a GBP hard enough you can find the PKR symbols underneath.

[mmasand]

Mmasand saar, rumors has it that if you scratch a GBP hard enough you can find the PKR symbols underneath.

Heard that before, bet that's what the Khanvenience stores in Sparkhill use as legal tender.

[IndraD]

British GP nearly loses licence for asking mohatarma to lift burqa https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rs-GP.html

[IndraD]

https://twitter.com/imamofpeace/status/ ... 36960?s=12
peacefuls mount stone pelting attack on adversaries supported by police in UK

[g.sarkar]

Regarding Mark Tully:
From Wikipedia
Sir William Mark Tully, KBE (born 24 October 1935)[1][2] is the former Bureau Chief of the BBC, New Delhi. He worked with the BBC for a period of 30 years before resigning in July 1994.[3] He held the position of Chief of Bureau, BBC, Delhi, for 20 years.[4] He has received awards and written books. He is a member of the Oriental Club.
Tully was made an Officer of the Order of the British Empire in 1985 and was awarded the Padma Shree in 1992.[6] He was knighted in the New Year Honours 2002,[19] receiving a KBE, and in 2005 he received the Padma Bhushan.[20] BAFTA in 1985 for lifelong achievement.[21] He was conferred the coveted RedInk Lifetime Achievement Award of the Mumbai Press Club.
.......
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-23678823
Why Mark Tully needs a Calcutta birth certificate at 78
British journalist and former BBC India correspondent Mark Tully explains why he is trying to obtain a copy of his birth certificate from the municipal authorities in the eastern Indian city of Calcutta at the age of 78.
I cannot remember when I last needed a birth certificate or how it came about that the place of birth on my passport is Calcutta.
But recently, while applying to be an "Overseas Citizen of India" (OCI), I have found that this is not correct, or may not be correct.
I have been told that Tollygunge, where I was born, was not included within the municipal limits of Calcutta in 1935, the year of my birth.
So I have applied for a copy of my birth certificate to support my application to become an OCI.
Being an OCI allows me to retain my nationality, but I am also issued a lifelong visa for India, allowing me to work and live in the country indefinitely.
I hope I will be allowed to keep my place of birth as Calcutta because I would hate to lose my connection with that great city.
My connection with Calcutta stretches back a long way.
It goes back at least to 1857, the year of what my maternal great-grandfather would have called the Indian Mutiny.....My maternal grandfather made his living selling jute in the city. He bought the jute in what is now Bangladesh, which is how my mother happened to be born there.
.....
It is obvious to me that as Mr. Tully came to work in India in 1965, the visa rules were different those days. Those days is was possible for Commonwealth Citizens to come to work in India. Wikipedia says that he came "back" to India. Perhaps he possessed originally a British Indian passport. This was common in my father's generation and they did not need a visa or work permit to go to the UK.The BBC news makes it clear that he now has OCI and a British citizenship.
Gautam
PS. One more thing, Surajji writes "There's no other nation with a non-immigrant visa that is infinitely renewable." This is not accurate. I know at least one that allows this. Perhaps there are more. Again, as he wrote "self interest" is the factor that determines this. A sovereign nation can do whatever it pleases in this regard.

[Suraj]

Which major economy allows an endlessly renewable non immigrant work visa status ?