J&K News and Discussion - 2016

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pankajs
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by pankajs »

CRamS wrote:pankajs, too many words in your response. Tough to understand. I am not advocating any Trump mediation. I think separating Jammu is a bad idea. And even if at some point in the future , trifurcation, can be thought of, at this point, there will be huge opposition to it within India. Now what part of this do you disagree with?
I know you have problems understanding what you yourself have been writing. Just re-read your original post again along side your rhetoric on Trump's Kashmir farts.

You are unhappy when Trump tries to inserts himself in Kashmir BUT you can't stop yourself from inserting TSP on matters internal to India!

On the 2nd highlight, Anything Modi does has invited "huge opposition to it within India" like with 3T, UAPA. Why should Modi/GOI care for the such views on Kashmir when they did not on 3T or UAPA? Trifurcation may not happen BUT it will definitely not be because of "huge opposition to it within India".

BTW, who all are part of this "huge opposition to it within India" on trifurcation apart from yourself? With such flimsy excuse, looks more like you don't want any movement on Kashmir. Why would you do that?
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by mmasand »

Amaranth Yatra has not been suspended due to the security risk, the inclement weather leading to landslides and falling rocks pose a risk to pilgrims. Yatra will resume on Aug 5 if there is some let up in the rains. The advisory issued was to yatris who have completed their journey to not stick about in the valley and visit Anantnag, Pahalgam, Patnitop etc like most do, but to leave the valley to free up more forces from tourist centric sites.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by Neela »

All said and done, the boundaries and red lines since 30 yrs have been erased.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by manjgu »

1)
Neela wrote:All said and done, the boundaries and red lines since 30 yrs have been erased.
could u please expand on what were the boundaries/red lines which have been erased. I ask this question since no official explanation or reason has come forth from GOI to suggest that as of today, though we all have been speculating. 2) while i am in favour of trifurcation ..actually amalgamation of jammu into punjab..ladhak into HP and kashmir as a UT , I am not sure how it solves problem of terrorism/insurgency unless we take war to the pakis? 3) making kashmir a UT will permanently make it a muslim majority area ...in the indian polity with SC, candle kissers, bleeding heart liberals it will be v hard to force settle people in Kashmir valley IMHO
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by wig »

well now the Machail Yatra has been suspended due to security reasons
J&K: 'Machail Mata Yatra' suspended due to security reasons



https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 508734.cms
The 43-day-long 'Machail Mata Yatra' in Kishtwar district of Jammu and Kashmir was suspended on Saturday due to security reasons, officials said.Authorities have asked people not to start the yatra and those on the way should leave and get back. "The yatra has been suspended with immediate effect due to security reasons," deputy commissioner of Kishtwar Angrez Singh Rana said. The yatra commenced on July 25 and was scheduled to end on September 5.
this was after
Kashmir on edge as admin calls off Amarnath yatra due to terror threat
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by madhu »

Wow! Things are fast moving...

1) NIT closed
2) gov polytech college Sri nagar closed.
3) control room for hospital setup in kupwara
4) UK issue travel advice against stay in J&K
5) kishtwar-machail-yatra-suspended
6) IAF will airlift Pilgrims
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by Vikas »

I don't know what GoI is planning but so much over the top arrangements can not be just for terror threat. One doesn't shut down NIT or bring in IAF to tackle terror threat especially knowing that forces have upper hand against terrorists.
All I know is that NM will have a good bullet point to talk about on his 15th Aug address to the nation.
It can not be something that SC can interject itself in it and roll it back.

PS: IMP Trifurcation of the state will be a brilliant and much desired idea but I doubt if GOI is going to pull it off.
J&K+Ladakh is an artificial entity brought together by Maharaja Gulab Singh and kept alive by India due to Paki/Muslim angle.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by Philip »

Things started happening after the Paki " Captain" went begging to the US. Imran licking Trump both backside and foreside and offering to do any dirty trick for Uncle Sam , tickled Trump a lot, especially when he has his Afghan agenda to complete.Reducing US troops yo a minimum and making a desl with the Taliban so that the
long dreamt of pipeline from Central Asia to the Arabian Sea through Afg. and Pak materialises.Trump is also
p* ssed off with Modiji for refusing to cow down to threats over Russian S-400 purchases and other military deals.His goal is to force India to buy US arms and establish military bases in the subcontinent.

The quid-pro-quo for Pak is a resumption of military aid
a Nelsonian eye for further Paki perfidy which he hopes will enable him to armtwist India on various issues.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by Lisa »

Are the pukis tying for a 'spectacular' in Kashmir so as to provoke us into a reaction as they have a plan in hand in case we do?

Just saying/asking.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by williams »

Irrespective of what Trump said. Pakis have zero dollars to try anything spectacular. Irrespective of what Trump said, we are more than capable to do a spectacular by doing a preemptive strike on the terrorist camp across the border. So that is not an issue, given a strong central govt and the internal red line crossed after Balakot. I think Amit Ji is being a proactive HM and reacting quickly to intelligence inputs to keep Pakis from trying the same old non-state action and then downhill skiing. This is hurting the Paki pasand politicos in the valley and they are making usual noises. Other than that it is the same old. Any major political changes in the state will have to happen after the Paki pasand politicos are fully exposed and curtailed. NIA is digging in a lot and will expose them soon. Until then the focus will be on eliminating terrorists, neutralizing its financial and political support system and keeping Pakis at bay. So relax and enjoy the show.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by Raghunathgb »

Rishi_Tri
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by Rishi_Tri »

Sachin wrote:
Rishi_Tri wrote:Only solution is resettlement of displaced populations and in double the number originally displaced, everything else mere legal calisthenics.
And how do you propose the GoI should achieve this? By forcibly taking Kashmiri Pandits on army trucks and then dumping them in Kashmir Valley and come back? For all you know many Kashmiri Pandits may not even be willing to go back, now that they have settled down in a new place.
.
My considered position on this is: Totally agree with what you said. So let's open Kashmir to settlement for anyone from all parts of India. I know people living for years there, working on many infrastructure projects. Make an offer of settlement to all the people working on such projects. Stand up fortified residential complexes. Yes, it is very risky but only way out.
Last edited by Rishi_Tri on 03 Aug 2019 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by SriKumar »

madhu wrote:Wow! Things are fast moving...

1) NIT closed
2) gov polytech college Sri nagar closed.
3) control room for hospital setup in kupwara
4) UK issue travel advice against stay in J&K
5) kishtwar-machail-yatra-suspended
6) IAF will airlift Pilgrims
Bolded part is interesting. It suggests casualities are expected? Kupwara is not all that close to Amarnath. Srinagar is closer. So, this action is something across the state and not specific to Mahadev's yatra (though I recall terrorists once attacked yatris with grenades). Seeing that most of the forces deployed are CRPF-type units, it suggests an intra-state engagement rather than any military IA action at/across LOC (tanks movements or otherwise).
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by gunnvant »

Was watching press conference held yesterday. I think some things stand out. We are trying to communicate to the world that
1. Pak establishment is involved by showing mines with pak ordinance markings.
2. US arms are being used by terrorists, as pointed out by the good general, I think he did emphasize 'US made sniper rifle', put out on display for photographs
3. Stone-pelters become terrorists and get killed.

1 and 2 if combined with reports about troop beef up, IAF ops seems to suggest that we can probably strike pre-emptively? (I know this is very speculative so please critique). I think we are telling the world we told you before that terror acts being planned, so in case we strike this becomes a justification. Also may be message to Trump, we will drag along US, "Shame shame, supplying arms to terrorists"

Again I am making a big hunch, 3 is for prospective UAPA, stone pelters can be treated as terrorists? Please critique.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by vivekmehta »

Just love the narrative of American Sniper rifle being found in Amarnath Yatra route....
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by Arun.prabhu »

Five kilometers is about twice the world record for successful hits from anti-personnel sniper rifles. I'll grant that I'm no expert, but anything over a thousand meters would require world class talent, top notch hardware, good weather - wind, visibility - and possibly luck. But yes, a single sniper could ruin everyone's day.
schinnas wrote:With 5km range sniper guns in mountain terrain even 1 lakh cops wouldn't be enough to guard a 150km stretch.

Besides, we don't know what the real game is. Some best in the business experts are doing their work. Least we could do is to not whine with little knowledge of the ground.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by ramana »

Philip, Good points.
DT and Immy WH trip.is green light to Pak.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by darshan »

Jammu and Kashmir: Pro-Pak journalist Qazi Shibli arrested over leaking official order on deployment of additional forces in the valley
https://www.opindia.com/2019/08/operati ... -arrested/
A pro-Pakistan journalist and news editor of propaganda website, The Kashmiriyat, Qazi Shibli, has been arrested by the Jammu and Kashmir police recently, reports Kashmir Walla.

Reportedly, Qazi Shibli, a resident of south Kashmir’s Anantnag district has been detained in connection with questioning over his few tweets which included the leaking of an official order regarding the deployment of additional paramilitary troopers across Jammu and Kashmir. He runs pro-Pakistani news website ‘The Kashmiriyat‘.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by Karthik S »

Guys, ahead of the curve thinking veterans please put forth few points as to what could be cooking. Personally, initially thought of 35A, but there seems to be too much action just for that, then thought akhand Kashmir, then thought too much civilian population causality, hence off the table, then just for 'terrorist threat', well it's always there every year during pilgrimage season, then thought this is all just to give a message to western 'powers' as to not to poke nose in Indian business, well all this for that seems little far fetched and amateurish. I usually go by probabilities, none of the above reasons don't really outscore another by big margin.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by Rony »

All of you calm down . No scrapping of 35A or 370. Deployment is in response to credible terrorist threat and nothing to do with any constitutional changes or trifurcation of the state.

No plan now to scrap Article 35A, govt says
The Modi government has no immediate plans to remove the controversial constitutional provision of Article 35A in Jammu and Kashmir, let alone consider splitting the troubled Himalayan state into three, government sources told ThePrint Saturday. The sources also denied the speculation that Prime Minister Narendra Modi could unfurl the national flag at Srinagar’s Lal Chowk on Independence Day. The PM will unfurl the flag and deliver a speech at the Red Fort in the national capital, according to tradition. However, plans are afoot to unfurl the tricolour in every district of Jammu and Kashmir, they said.

Amid panic in the Kashmir Valley and wild speculation on social media following new deployment of security forces in the region, government sources said that security is being tightened in the state in the wake of “credible inputs” that Pakistan-backed terrorists were planning a major terrorist attack on Amarnath Yatra pilgrims.

The sources also disputed the charge that several thousands of additional personnel from the Central Armed Police Forces – the CRPF, the BSF and the SSB – have been brought into the state and more are on the way.

“There are no additional security personnel that are being brought in as far as figures being speculated in the social media are concerned. Elections are to be held in the state and there is a rollover, meaning new personnel are being brought into the state to replace some of the existing ones,” said a source in the security establishment. “Also, in wake of the security alert, some additional personnel have been brought in for overall searches and for deployment before the Independence Day celebrations,”added the source.


Jammu and Kashmir has been gripped by fear amid rumours that the Modi government is planning to remove Article 35A, a provision that gives special privileges to residents of the state.

BJP’s state as well as national leadership has been pushing for the removal of the constitutional provision.

Trifurcation of the state to make Kashmir and Ladakh Union Territories is another rumour that has caught on in the past few days.

“No such move is being planned,” a high ranking source in Kashmir said.


Multiple sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that the safety of Amarnath Yatra pilgrims became a concern in the wake of intelligence inputs.

The sources said that any untoward incident targeting the pilgrims will have a ripple effect across the country, something the Modi government can ill afford.

“Hence, a decision was taken to cancel the yatra and ask the yatris to go back,” said a third source.


Over the last two weeks, several top officials from Delhi have visited Jammu and Kashmir, including National Security Advisor Ajit Doval and Indian Army chief General Bipin Rawat.

Based on the situation on the ground, the government took the decision to tighten security measures and carry out intense searches, especially along the routes of the yatra.

The searches, before and during the yatra, led to the recovery of a US-made sniper rifle, an anti-personnel mine with a markings of Pakistan Ordnance Factory, Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs), IED container, IED circuit board, IED initiating mechanism and a remote control device.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by abhik »

^^^
Can't really trust unnamed sources, do we have official sources who are in the know (i.e. Amit Shah etc.) saying "nothing to see onlee, plz move on"?
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by schinnas »

The governor has said that he is not aware of any constitutional changes in J&k. We have 3 days of parliament session left. Let's wait and watch till Aug 15th.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by abhishekm »

HUGE breaking news! Multiple news channels carrying inputs of IA repulsing BAT attack resulting in the deaths of 7 Pakjabi SSG commandos and JeM terrorists. Bodies are on the Indian side.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by Rishi_Tri »

This is also happening while the jackals howl:

https://twitter.com/TajinderBagga/statu ... 04484?s=20

Big guns are booming. This may be Dhanush, ATAGS range.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by abhishekm »

Out of 7 killed, 4 are SSG commandos per news reports, the rest are from JeM. I dearly hope we recover the bodies.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by pankajs »

^^
And put them on display.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by manjgu »

bababanaras has put some grainy pics of 4 pigs.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by pankajs »

https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion ... -commander
Kashmir Situation Is Potentially Dangerous: Lt Gen Ata Hasnain
Suddenly things started to change and since 2017 the Central Government started to adopt a new strategy by going after the financial networks aiding militancy in J&K. These were deeply embedded and would take some years to dismantle. With the coming of the new government at the Centre in May 2019, this line of action started to expand and not only the financial networks but also the entire ecosystem which has run the J&K proxy war came under the scanner.

“Der aaye, drust aaye” (came late, yet came rightly) is a common Hindustani phrase; it applies most appropriately here.

Operation All Out since 2017 has focused on neutralization of terrorists. It achieved good results evident from the fact that many other terrorist groups tried to unsuccessfully make an entry to fill emerging voids. This was not good enough. When the network of over ground workers (OGWs) started to erode under the intelligence and police vigilance and many powerful personalities earlier in authority started to get targeted there was panic.

<snip>

The feedback from Kashmir to Islamabad would probably have been about panic stations among the pro-Pakistan networks but a potential chance which was still available; the ongoing Amarnath Yatra could be targeted for effect. Large scale casualties to yatris would convert the Jammu region into a communal cauldron and the chances of the same spreading deep into hinterland India would be bright; exactly what the deep state’s long term vision has been all about all these years. For this, there was a need for some hard core terrorist cadres to be infiltrated and some wherewithal.

<snip>

The happenings at the LoC are outside the focus of media. A lot is happening there. For the first time we find a focus of Pakistan Army on the Kashmir segment of the LoC. Ceasefire violations are extending to artillery duels; it has not happened exclusively there for long. Risk are being taken in the Nilam Valley where Pakistan is very vulnerable. The Bagtor infiltration route at the edge of Gurez—the shortest route to the Valley, reaching Bandipur in a night’s hop—has been activated.

Anyone with experience of Valley based operations can read these inputs and deduce the level of desperation in Pakistan’s J&K focused planners. Doing something while the iron is hot, re-energizing militancy and street turbulence, and reactivating the networks which are getting extremely vulnerable appeared the best option for Pakistan. The situation could be assessed to be akin to that which was probably presented to Benazir Bhutto in 1989 by Mirza Aslam Baig and Hamid Gul (the then Pakistan Army Chief and DG ISI respectively). ‘Now or never’, was probably the brief and the advice which was taken and acted upon.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by Vikas »

Gov Malik has declared that no 'spectacular' action is being considered as on today, He can't predict tomorrow though.
I doubt if all this bandobast is just for unfurling Tiranga at Lal Chowk. There is something which might invite reaction from Pakis and hence deployment of forces including IAF. This is action before winters set in.
Personally I am leaning towards trifurcation of the state before ID-15th Aug which automatically will make 370 and 35A null and void, but anything would happen once Parliament gets adjourned.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by Rampy »

and this news in Hindi. Not sure if this is shelling or we did enter in POK
https://hindi.news18.com/news/nation/ja ... 87435.html
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by CRamS »

pankajs wrote:
You are unhappy when Trump tries to inserts himself in Kashmir BUT you can't stop yourself from inserting TSP on matters internal to India!
Tough rubbish talk. TSP controls the terror pigLeTs, can attack India with impunity, we have lost 1000s of troops, 1000s of civilians, and we have a humongous army arrayed to control this. And TSP is not a factor? Give me a break. Don't tell me you are delusional.

We are not enemies, you may feel good attacking me, just as libtards do attacking ModiJi, but real enemy is TSP and 'friendly enemies' like its 3.5 :-).


BTW, who all are part of this "huge opposition to it within India" on trifurcation apart from yourself? With such flimsy excuse, looks more like you don't want any movement on Kashmir. Why would you do that?
I don't want trifuraction because its a bad idea.

NRN: no reply necessary
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by manjgu »

say how about modi announcing abrogation of Indus Water Treaty !!! will make my day.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by suryag »

MAD is creating a smokescreen for something else. Nothing will happen in J&K
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by pankajs »

CRamS wrote:
pankajs wrote:You are unhappy when Trump tries to inserts himself in Kashmir BUT you can't stop yourself from inserting TSP on matters internal to India!
Tough rubbish talk. TSP controls the terror pigLeTs, can attack India with impunity, we have lost 1000s of troops, 1000s of civilians, and we have a humongous army arrayed to control this. And TSP is not a factor? Give me a break. Don't tell me you are delusional.

We are not enemies, you may feel good attacking me, just as libtards do attacking ModiJi, but real enemy is TSP and 'friendly enemies' like its 3.5 :-).
What rubbish! Let me quote your original original again
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7240&start=2640#p2368609
CRamS wrote:^^^ Not sure what that will achieve. I am sure under normal circumstances, a move like that for administrative efficiency is warranted, but with TSP-led Muslim secessionist war raging, and the central strategy of TSP is to wrest the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley from India, how is separating Jammu and Laddak going to solve the TSP problem? <snip>
TSP is a factor in J&K and beyond BUT not in the trifurcation. Its core agenda wrt Kashmir or India will not change with or without trifurcation but you had to insert it into the debate.

However to the ORIGINAL point, trifurcation is about solving ONE of Jammu and Ladakh's problem, that of their oppression at the hands of the valley and not about solving our TSP problem. I don't understand why you had to bring TSP into this too. Don't tell me you are delusional.

I can't read your heart but your insertion of TSP into an internal administrative decision of India does not look good. You may feel good at mocking Modi in the style of your favorite rNDTV but don't attack India on the sly. I will continue to point you TSP pasand narrative every time you try to pull such stunts. You seem to have learned quite a lot from rNDTV. :-)
CRamS wrote:
pankajs wrote:BTW, who all are part of this "huge opposition to it within India" on trifurcation apart from yourself? With such flimsy excuse, looks more like you don't want any movement on Kashmir. Why would you do that?
I don't want trifuraction because its a bad idea.

NRN: no reply necessary
Why dodge the question? Let me quote your original original again
CRamS wrote:< snip> On the contrary, it will spark off a huge firstrom within India on this 'communal' move by ModiJi, and suddenly all the Paki pasand opposition in India will become 'nationalists' berating ModiJi for helping TSP's agenda of 'communalizing' Kashmir.
You can choose NRN but the highlighted part makes it clear you either had no idea what you were talking about or you were emulating rNDTV style of analysis on Kashmir/TSP issues.

Not you or anyone else has to answer any of my questions. That is understood but I had to highlight your strange analysis. We can leave it at that if you want ... or continue.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by CRamS »

suryag wrote:MAD is creating a smokescreen for something else. Nothing will happen in J&K
Tough to say. This much troop movement is hard to explain even though TSP threat and penchant for perfidy cannot be underestimated. Maybe troop build up is to prepare for some big announcement during ModiJi's independence day red fort for speech. Who knows.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by Rishi_Tri »

Rampy wrote:and this news in Hindi. Not sure if this is shelling or we did enter in POK
https://hindi.news18.com/news/nation/ja ... 87435.html
Shelling for sure, don't know about entering POK. Videos doing rounds of big houses in deep mountains burning. Big structures being blown up as result of shells coming in, at a different location. Caught on videos deep inside. Now confirmed that Bofors are there. Perhaps more.
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by mmasand »

Allegedly Neelum hydro-project was a potential target, some damage to the outer wall corroborated with the video that did the rounds earlier in the day.
https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/11 ... 6926921728
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/iaf- ... 190803.htm
IAF's C-17s to airlift Amarnath Yatra pilgrims
August 03, 2019
The C-17 Globemaster can airlift around 230 passengers in one go and takes less time to fly between different places.
The Jammu and Kashmir government has requested the Indian Air Force to airlift the Amarnath Yatra pilgrims out of the Kashmir valley to places such as Jammu, Pathankot or Delhi from where they can go back home.
"A request has been received from the state administration for the IAF to carry the pilgrims out of the Kashmir valley in their C-17 transport. The first such sortie of the C-17s is likely to fly out of the Kashmir valley in a couple of hours," government sources said.
The C-17s are already operating to rush in paramilitary troops from different parts of the country for precautionary deployment in the valley.
The C-17 Globemaster can airlift around 230 passengers in one go and takes less time than the Russian Ilyushin-76 to fly between different places.
.....
_______________________________________________________________________________________
In the mean time:
https://zeenews.india.com/india/three-t ... 24452.html
Three terrorists killed within 24 hours in Jammu and Kashmir's Baramulla and Shopian districts
In an encounter in Baramulla district on Saturday, a terrorist was killed in an encounter with security forces in Warpora area of Sopore. Two more terrorists are believed to be trapped in the area.
......
Gautam
Last edited by g.sarkar on 04 Aug 2019 01:24, edited 1 time in total.
khan
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Re: J&K News and Discussion - 2016

Post by khan »

pankajs wrote:https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion ... -commander
Kashmir Situation Is Potentially Dangerous: Lt Gen Ata Hasnain
There are two possible things that could be happening in J&K:
1. Some constitutional or legal change to the status quo.
2. Military action.

This article makes a lot of sense regarding scenario #2 - Military action. If something out of the ordinary was foiled, then given the new doctrine of aggressiveness & pre-emptiveness, India has to hit back - in an extraordinary way.

This talk of mandating Rajya Sabha attendance could be a red herring.
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