MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 20 May 2019 15:38

A lot of phardi (mountaineous) language is mixed in his Punjabi. Not the chaste Punjabi expected from a Lahorite. Must be expected influence as we moved North and slight west_ish of the West Panjab areas.

Otherwise the two pilot theory seems confirmed.

Also he points to one of the pilot floating down majestically or calmly .... i.e. taking his own sweet time which may refer to high altitude ejection of Wing Co Abhi.

Good find this video by the way.

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 19 Jul 2019 19:56

Okay, time for another Paki version of the events surrounding Wing Commander Abhi's Ayf Sola kill.

The IAF and PAF account of the 2019 vary, what actually happened? What are popular misunderstandings of it?
“We shot a MiG-21 on our side and a Su-30 on their side (which we didn’t claim initially because we already had the MiG-21 pilot in custody and that was enough of a message that we had the superiority). Plus we didn’t want to rub it in their face that we had shot two jets which in turn would escalate the problem. Needless to say, we have the wreckage of MiG-21 with all four missiles intact (hence no shooting of our jets took place) plus our electronic warfare (EW) platforms have all the radio transmissions of the IAF — and it’s a treat to listen to those confused and devastated calls of IAF pilots and controller which the shooting was taking place (IAF do not operate on secure radios so all their RT chatter is easily picked by EW platforms. Plus a MiG-21 in Block zero-one i.e below 20,000 with AA-12 Adder can only dream of getting a missile off rail against targets beyond 20NM (plus the Kopyo radar doesn’t support AA-12 launches beyond 20NM and that too on head-on aspects). Plus the evidence the Indians showed was a AMRAAM piece on their side claiming it was from a F-16 ~~they shot.~~(Paki addendums) My simple question: if they found a piece of AMRAAM on their side but no jet attached to it then where did the wreckage go? Duhhh. And for a MiG to launch a missile against an F-16 and get it to A-pole and in the meantime get shot by another jet speaks poorly of the MiG-21’s pilot’s priorities as a fighter pilot.
Nobody in their right frame of mind would enter the kill zone being spiked from all side and still continue hot without listening to any controller or formation member. In the intense comm jam environment with non secure radio the poor MiG-21 pilot didn’t receive any threat warnings given by his controller and I’m sure he didn’t have a moving map display telling him he had crossed the border and the comms were being jammed.”

https://hushkit.net/2019/07/19/flying-f ... ter-pilot/
I love how they still cannot figure out how in Djinnah's post Bangladesh world did they lose a Ayf Sola Delta and the Terrorists in uniform Wajib Bull Cutlet the afsar.
But according to 2Fail, the dual seater only had one inside while the second seat housed an image of a goat in bikinis.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 19 Jul 2019 23:28

Clearly the Pakis are rattled.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 20 Jul 2019 12:21

Its a matter of time when the F-16 loss is going to come out, Pakis want to create a India hid Su 30 loss story.

naruto · Post by **naruto** » 20 Jul 2019 12:29

In that Paki version of events, the Puke says "IAF do not operate on secure radios so all their RT chatter is easily picked by EW platforms". Is that so ?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Jul 2019 12:34

Su-30s have secure radios. Likely, so do the MiG-29s and Mirage 2000 upgrades.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 20 Jul 2019 13:14

history will repeat... in 1965 war after PAF shot down IAF vampires and were crowing around... IAF gnats shot down PAF sabres ...PAF had a torrid and hard time accepting loss of super duper Sabre jet to IAF Gnats. nothing new !!

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 21 Jul 2019 14:09

We made a similar claim that we heard their Radio Traffic calling and looking for the downed F-16.
Interesting ....

srai · Post by **srai** » 21 Jul 2019 18:11

The IAF has been practicing MiG-21Bison combo with Su-30MKI against the F-16s in exercises from excerpts below. Deja vu

Flying & fighting in the Sukhoi Su-30 ‘Flanker’: A pilot interview

...
“Another mission that stand out is a group combat mission that was pitching a Su-30 & one MiG-21 BISON against three F-16 . As luck would have it, the BISON did not get airborne and now the game was one Su-30 vs three F-16 in a BVR scenario. Again, we pushed the envelope, manoeuvred between 3000 ft to 32000 ft, pulling up to 8 g, turning, tumbling, firing and escaping missiles in a simulated engagement. The crew co-ord between us in the cockpit and the fighter controller on the ground was the best that I have ever seen! The results in a mock combat are always contentious but with ACMI, they are more reliable. End score one F-16 claimed without loss.
...

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 13 Aug 2019 00:09

If I may add a little speculation to what happened on Feb 27th -
The decision of abrogating 370 and 35A - the outcome on Feb 27 would have weighted on this decision, if not much then at least somewhat. In Indo-TSP context, air dominance may not play a huge role (India would still win a shoot out even with not full air dominance), it still could be bothersome, had TSP had a upper hand. If indeed TSP F-16 shot down a Sukhoi (and they indeed downed a Mig 21) and we had nothing to show for it, MAD would have been reluctant to take the decision on 370 or 35A or have waited till Rafale arrived (or better missiles etc of Sukhoi). If they were adventurous kind (which they are), and went ahead with the abrogation (since IA and IN have very good advantage), TSPAF would be buzzing us with their F-16s. None of that is happening.
I think what really happened was what is being reported, the MIG 21 did get better of F-16, Sukhois did dodge many C-120s , survived the best laid out ambush that TSPAF could lay, survived against heavy localized number superiority of TSPAF. If indeed all of this happened, and as MAD i know it, I know TSPA/F/N is nanga, I would go ahead and repeal 370/35a, knowing fully well that TSP can only hit through terrorists, and IAF/IA/IN will respond, most likely IAF, and we know, and they know who is far ahead. Given that, and working backwards, TSP will restrain their non uniformed members. IAF this time can pull the chaddi of TSPAF (which was pulled on 27th Feb, but public could not see it). That would be bigger loss of confidence than losing Kashmir, that will give us air dominance over TSP even during peace time.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 13 Aug 2019 00:32

Well put

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Aug 2019 00:48

Yes another point of confirmation too many elements confirming the Pakis are lying
1) First claim of no Amraam No F16 then when confronted with proof agreeing F 16 was used
2) Why would Wing Co cross the LOC to have chai?
3) Gafoora I'm the Dim and many POK locals on Paki videos talking of 2 fighters down 1 pilot in custody and 1 in hospital
4) PA quickly loading some aircraft parts in a PA truck while Mig 21 bison debris was put out for the world to see
5) IAF radar prof plus intercepts
6) Videos put out by Pakis ( while they complain about internet blackout in Kashmir they have blacked out internet in PoK) show 2 different aircraft crashing 1 with smoke trail 2 parachutes and 1 pilot getting caught in the tail chute and 1 Mig 21 falling without smoke trail.
7) PAF planting multiple fake stories on SU30 and US inventory count denied by the Pentagon.

All put together it's only a matter of time before the F16 loss will be universally accepted.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Aug 2019 02:57

The PAF is cruising for a bruising again

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1160829086291222530 ---> Not surprised that the Pakistan Air Force is heightening its force posture, given the fact that a posse of JeM terrorists have snuck into the valley. Pakistani military might be bracing for Indian retaliation in the event that the said terrorists manage to do something heinous.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1160797809978703872 ---> So, reports suggest that the Pakistan Air Force may be priming the forward operating base at Skardu in Baltistan for higher tempo operations.

hgupta · Post by **hgupta** » 13 Aug 2019 03:32

In light of the above warnings by Saurabh Jha’s warnings I hope IAF will retaliate even if PAF fail in its attacks. I was disappointed that IAF did not retaliate after PAF launch attacks back in February. I’m hoping that IAF will retaliate disproportionately and bomb the crap out of a major PAF airbase resulting in heavy losses and send an unmistakable message that any attack will bring disproportionate attack. I know India did the Balakot raid. But I’m referring to the lack of a Followup to the PAF reaction to the Balakot raid. Even though they did not hit anything we should have struck back and inflict more damages to show we mean business. We have to be unfair and very mean to the Pakistani forces. The best example we can look at is how the Israeli Air Force has responded to Syria. There, the IDF was very disproportionate in its actions against Syria and to this day Syria can’t even dare to launch any attacks against Israel.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 13 Aug 2019 03:43

Aditya_V wrote:Yes another point of confirmation too many elements confirming the Pakis are lying
1) First claim of no Amraam No F16 then when confronted with proof agreeing F 16 was used
2) Why would Wing Co cross the LOC to have chai?
3) Gafoora I'm the Dim and many POK locals on Paki videos talking of 2 fighters down 1 pilot in custody and 1 in hospital
4) PA quickly loading some aircraft parts in a PA truck while Mig 21 bison debris was put out for the world to see
5) IAF radar prof plus intercepts
6) Videos put out by Pakis ( while they complain about internet blackout in Kashmir they have blacked out internet in PoK) show 2 different aircraft crashing 1 with smoke trail 2 parachutes and 1 pilot getting caught in the tail chute and 1 Mig 21 falling without smoke trail.
7) PAF planting multiple fake stories on SU30 and US inventory count denied by the Pentagon.

All put together it's only a matter of time before the F16 loss will be universally accepted.

Perhaps you can add the 8 point. They claimed that 2 planes were shot down, a pilot was criticlly injured and in hospital.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 13 Aug 2019 05:28

I wish we had the one sided Air superiority that we enjoyed during Kargil. Thanks to uncle SAM, it is not to be and thanks for people on our side that we manage to slip from that position.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 13 Aug 2019 05:44

Please stop complaining, the IAFs ongoing equipment inductions add a lot of heft. We have already covered that.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Aug 2019 10:36

But IAF(MOD and whole GOI) needs to demonstrate that capability more clearly with killer instinct not worry about escalations, they were too kind on 27 Feb 19.

Even now I am sure we have satellite pics and there would have been umpteen mobile videos in POK, which by now we should have got from these devices. We know the name of the Pilots and probably even the tail no of the F-16. But for their own reasons GOI does not clandestinely publish these.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 13 Aug 2019 11:06

GOI has not followed up on Balakot either in words or action because it seems to be satisfied with the outcome at all levels.

That is my simple conclusion.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Aug 2019 11:15

OR GOI has other priorities and Pakis 3.5 friends have asked GOI to shut up about it.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 13 Aug 2019 13:21

Aditya_V wrote:OR GOI has other priorities and Pakis 3.5 friends have asked GOI to shut up about it.

Could be. Modi is totally unreadable on some issues.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Aug 2019 13:50

Could be Modi also,

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 13 Aug 2019 14:59

pankajs wrote:GOI has not followed up on Balakot either in words or action because it seems to be satisfied with the outcome at all levels.

That is my simple conclusion.

Quoted for truth.

Attack done, position reiterated (domestic and messaging to Pak) and no war as well.

What else remained? Rest are all BR jingo aims.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 13 Aug 2019 15:21

Aditya_V wrote:
Aditya G wrote:FWIW only ....

This is from page 1 of this thread, all the videos seem to collaborate this, it was while returning and climbing height the AMRAAM got the Mig 21 Bison, But how come his RWR did not sound the lock and approach of the missile, maybe the few secs loose of power did him in.

If IAF/MOD/GOI release the Pilot name and Tail no. informally /through sources atleast it would be nice.

Can you guys stop quoting all these cock and bull stories. "Valiant firing from Su-30 and MiG". Please.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Aug 2019 16:35

Ok maybe but now 6 months after the incident, I think unofficially GOI should allow more info it has, I am sure there are POK videos with Govt machinery etc, Pilot name, F16 Tail no etc. It was the worlds first Mig 21 kill of an F16 and must be celebrated. All countries have blogs and details of their military achievements.

gunnvant · Post by **gunnvant** » 13 Aug 2019 17:51

Mods can we lock this thread? IMHO, there are no new developments/reports that can be discussed here. If something new comes we can open it again

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Aug 2019 11:14

Excerpt posted by Nitin Gokhale from his book.
https://www.amazon.in/Securing-India-Mo ... ing&sr=8-2

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Aug 2019 11:16

His original article (superceded by the book):
https://bharatshakti.in/india-pakistan- ... ontroller/

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Aug 2019 11:20

https://www.thehitavada.com/Encyc/2019/ ... hakra.html

WING Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, who downed an enemy jet during an aerial combat with Pakistan in February and was held captive for three days, has been conferred the Vir Chakra, India’s third-highest war time Gallantry Medal. The Defence Ministry announced the military awards on the eve of Independence Day celebrations. President Ram Nath Kovind approved a total of 132 Gallantry Awards and other decorations to personnel from the Armed and Paramilitary Forces and 8 Tatrakshak medals to Coast Guard personnel.

Sapper Prakash Jadhav of the Indian Army’s 1 Rashtriya Rifles (Mahar) battalion has been conferred with the second-highest peacetime Gallantry Medal Kirti Chakra posthumously for operation in Kulgam in J&K. The IAF received a total of 13 awards including five Yudh Seva Medals and seven Vayu Sena Medal. Squadron Leader Minty Agarwal, who played a key role as flight controller during the aerial combat between India and Pakistan on February 27, has been awarded Yudh Seva medal.

Air Commodore Sunil Kashinath Vidhate, Gp Capts Yashpal Singh Negi, Hansel Joseph Sequeira and Hemant Kumar have also been awarded the Yudh Sewa Medal for the planning and execution of the Balakot aerial strikes on the Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist camp in Balakot town of Khyber Pakhtunwa province of Pakistan. The seven IAF officers who have been awarded the Vayu Sena Medal for Gallantry include Gp Capts Saumitra Tamaskar and Pranav Raj, Wg Cdr Amit Ranjan, Squadron Leaders Rahul Basoya, Pankaj Bhujade, B Karthik Narayan Reddy and Shashank Singh. At least five Mirage fighter pilots, who were part of the operation to strike a Jaish-e-Mohmamed terrorist training camp deep inside Pakistan’s Balakot on February 27, were among the awardees.

The Army also got eight Shaurya Chakra awards and 98 Sena medals. The Navy got one Shaurya Chakra award. The officers who have received the award posthumously include Maj VS Dhaundial of 55 Rashtriya Rifles, Lance Naik Sandeep Singh of 4 Para (Special Forces), Rifleman Shive Kumar of 31 Rashtriya Rifles and Sepoy Brajesh Kumar of 22 Rashtriya Rifles.

“We are very happy that Wing Comm Varthaman has been conferred with Vir Chakra,” said an IAF official. Varthaman, 36, was captured by the Pakistani Army on February 27 after his MiG-21 Bison jet was shot down in a dogfight with Pakistani jets during aerial combat. Before his jet was hit, he downed an F-16 fighter of Pakistan. Varthaman was released on the night of March 1 by Pakistan. Varthaman had suffered injuries while ejecting from his MiG-21 Bison during the aerial combat. A high-level medical board of the Indian Air Force has already cleared Varthaman to return to the fighter cockpit.

Days after he returned from Pakistan, Varthaman conveyed to the IAF brass his wish to resume flying at the earliest. IAF fighter jets bombed a Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist training camp in Balakot on February 26, nearly two weeks after the Pulwama terror attack. Pakistan retaliated on February 27 by attempting to target Indian military installations. The Gallantry Awards are announced on the eve of the Independence Day and Republic Day are given to the recipients in different investiture ceremonies. The Chakra series awards are given by the President while the remaining are given by the respective services during their different investiture ceremonies.

naird · Post by **naird** » 15 Aug 2019 13:24

Karan M wrote:https://www.thehitavada.com/Encyc/2019/ ... hakra.html

WING Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, who downed an enemy jet during an aerial combat with Pakistan in February and was held captive for three days, has been conferred the Vir Chakra, India’s third-highest war time Gallantry Medal. The Defence Ministry announced the military awards on the eve of Independence Day celebrations. President Ram Nath Kovind approved a total of 132 Gallantry Awards and other decorations to personnel from the Armed and Paramilitary Forces and 8 Tatrakshak medals to Coast Guard personnel.

Sapper Prakash Jadhav of the Indian Army’s 1 Rashtriya Rifles (Mahar) battalion has been conferred with the second-highest peacetime Gallantry Medal Kirti Chakra posthumously for operation in Kulgam in J&K. The IAF received a total of 13 awards including five Yudh Seva Medals and seven Vayu Sena Medal. Squadron Leader Minty Agarwal, who played a key role as flight controller during the aerial combat between India and Pakistan on February 27, has been awarded Yudh Seva medal.

Air Commodore Sunil Kashinath Vidhate, Gp Capts Yashpal Singh Negi, Hansel Joseph Sequeira and Hemant Kumar have also been awarded the Yudh Sewa Medal for the planning and execution of the Balakot aerial strikes on the Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist camp in Balakot town of Khyber Pakhtunwa province of Pakistan. The seven IAF officers who have been awarded the Vayu Sena Medal for Gallantry include Gp Capts Saumitra Tamaskar and Pranav Raj, Wg Cdr Amit Ranjan, Squadron Leaders Rahul Basoya, Pankaj Bhujade, B Karthik Narayan Reddy and Shashank Singh. At least five Mirage fighter pilots, who were part of the operation to strike a Jaish-e-Mohmamed terrorist training camp deep inside Pakistan’s Balakot on February 27, were among the awardees.

No idea about why these two gentlemen are getting awards - Gp Capts Saumitra Tamaskar and Pranav Raj . Are they the Su 30 pilots ? I dont think so - since Grp Capt is a pretty senior rank.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Aug 2019 18:10

Not all IAF awards are for the Balakote raid.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 15 Aug 2019 18:20

Sq Leader Minty Agarwal mentioned above speaks about the engagement.

saip · Post by **saip** » 15 Aug 2019 19:25

Now our awards are given, I have not seen Pakis giving an award to 'the SU30 killer'. What am I missing? Or will they belatedly announce an award?

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 15 Aug 2019 19:43

They'll anoint a new MM Alam.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 15 Aug 2019 20:47

TSP is claiming it, calling operation Swift

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 15 Aug 2019 23:07

From the unmentionable Forum:

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 15 Aug 2019 23:31

https://twitter.com/sankrant/status/1160493806120136704 ---> Pakistan's terrorist army tortured officer Saurabh Kalia, gouged his eyes out, mutilated him. What changed from then that they returned Abhinandan? Not the Pak army, but Modi. Pakistan was scared to death of what would happen if they mistreated Abhinandan.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Aug 2019 23:33

The got the names mixed up

Not surprising, considering the PAF record of re-writing their glorious history!

The bottom left of the poster states the MiG-21 Bison was shot down by Wing Cdr Noman Ali Khan. But See below...
https://www.facebook.com/pakistanidefen ... tn__=EHH-R

The bottom right of the poster states the Su-30MKI was shot down by Sqn Ldr Hassan Siddiqui. In fact, no Su-30MKI was ever shot down by the PAF. Their initial claim was that Wing Cdr Noman Ali Khan shot the Su-30 down.

I wonder how these pilots live with stolen/fake valour. They may lie/fool their own people, but it is amazing they live with this.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 16 Aug 2019 00:24

See Sameer Joshi's tweet.

What about the one who didn't return? #DoosraBanda @OfficialDGISPR No missing man flight for him at Sargodha? Ironic that the IAF callsign Alpha-1, shot down the PAF callsign Alpha-3 !!

https://twitter.com/joe_sameer/status/1 ... 33377?s=09

chola · Post by **chola** » 16 Aug 2019 00:57

Rakesh wrote:The got the names mixed up Not surprising, considering the PAF record of re-writing their glorious history!

The bottom left of the poster states the MiG-21 Bison was shot down by Wing Cdr Noman Ali Khan. But See below...
https://www.facebook.com/pakistanidefen ... tn__=EHH-R

The bottom right of the poster states the Su-30MKI was shot down by Sqn Ldr Hassan Siddiqui. In fact, no Su-30MKI was ever shot down by the PAF. Their initial claim was that Wing Cdr Noman Ali Khan shot the Su-30 down.

I wonder how these pilots live with stolen/fake valour. They may lie/fool their own people, but it is amazing they live with this.

No, no, no. Read twitter.

1) Siddiqui shot down the MiG-21 with his JF-17. 2) Then he shot down a SU-30MKI with his F-16. 3) Then No Man (named) Ali also shot down a SU-30 in his F-16. 4) Then Clown Ali of PAF propagandu department said no F-16 was used.

Follow PAF story line please.