China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 24 Aug 2019 11:26

^Looks like the tug lost the race!

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 24 Aug 2019 15:46

chola wrote:^^^ Khalsa ji, possible problems were first raised by the articles in the Admiral's post not us in this thread.

Chola Sir, wasn't talking about you but about many previous posts.

Lets keep the good rakshak work going.

chola · Post by **chola** » 25 Aug 2019 07:55

^^^ Khalsa ji, doing this as a rakshak is hard sometimes. The following is an example why.

Watching the 075 being built from ground is fascinating as an observer. But posting this is actually painful when one remembers we had embarked on the MRSV project -- 8 ago -- with no progress in sight today.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RickJoe_PLAR ... 8892083200

Rick Joe
@RickJoe_PLART
With 075, back in May only the base hull was partly complete (pic 1, shown alongside 071 no. 8 ).

Only three months later, it looks almost structurally done (pics 2-4)

At that speed, hull 1 may launch before year end, and we may see one launch per year for the next two years.

LakshmanPST · Post by **LakshmanPST** » 25 Aug 2019 11:04

Sameer Joshi on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/joe_sameer/status/1 ... 3652097024 ---> THE DRAGON's CLAWS: ASSESSING CHINA's PLAAF TODAY. My wholesome and detailed assessment of China's People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), summarizing how an IAF vs PLAAF battle over Tibet will look like. Released in association with Vayu Aerospace.

Link to the article ----> https://www.academia.edu/34166156/THE_D ... LAAF_TODAY

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Aug 2019 19:25

https://twitter.com/joe_sameer/status/1 ... 9076220928 ---> The Chinese J-16 is participating in Shaheen-Ⅷ Sino-Pakistan joint exercise in NW China. The PAF will immensely benefit from simulated engagements with the superb AESA equipped Shenyang J-16, a twin-seat multirole aircraft often compared to the IAF's Su-30MKI.

tandav · Post by **tandav** » 26 Aug 2019 06:36

So the J16 has AESA whereas Su30MKI is still PESA ?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 Aug 2019 06:57

Nobody knows for sure. The lack of a pitot tube indicates an ESA - either AESA, PESA as both can be affected.

https://www.armytimes.com/resizer/PiAGO ... 4QQOMM.jpg

It doesnt have the canted radome typical of the PRC's AESA installations shown on the J-11D.

chola · Post by **chola** » 26 Aug 2019 07:29

J-16 is almost certainly a licensed SU-30MKK with chini engines and radar. The timelines for the Sino Flanker series are too fast for reverse engineering.

It took them three decades to RE the Black Hawk.

But it took them only four years to go from the AL-31 to WS-10 in the J-11?! It would have been impossible to re-engine the plane without OEM help. The J-11A was inducted in 1998 and by 2002 there was a J-11B flying with the WS-10.

The J-11, J-15 and J-16 are simply licensed production of the SU-27, the SU-33 and the SU-30MKK.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 26 Aug 2019 16:16

chola wrote:J-16 is almost certainly a licensed SU-30MKK with chini engines and radar. The timelines for the Sino Flanker series are too fast for reverse engineering.

It took them three decades to RE the Black Hawk.

But it took them only four years to go from the AL-31 to WS-10 in the J-11?! It would have been impossible to re-engine the plane without OEM help. The J-11A was inducted in 1998 and by 2002 there was a J-11B flying with the WS-10.

The J-11, J-15 and J-16 are simply licensed production of the SU-27, the SU-33 and the SU-30MKK.

There is no way Russians have integrated a Chinese engine, they are probably have some deal like HAl for the Sukhoi Engines, which is being called as "Reverse Engineering". The Chinese Government being a closed regime needs to keep showing victories.

chola · Post by **chola** » 27 Aug 2019 07:21

Aditya_V wrote:
chola wrote:J-16 is almost certainly a licensed SU-30MKK with chini engines and radar. The timelines for the Sino Flanker series are too fast for reverse engineering.

It took them three decades to RE the Black Hawk.

But it took them only four years to go from the AL-31 to WS-10 in the J-11?! It would have been impossible to re-engine the plane without OEM help. The J-11A was inducted in 1998 and by 2002 there was a J-11B flying with the WS-10.

The J-11, J-15 and J-16 are simply licensed production of the SU-27, the SU-33 and the SU-30MKK.
There is no way Russians have integrated a Chinese engine, they are probably have some deal like HAl for the Sukhoi Engines, which is being called as "Reverse Engineering". The Chinese Government being a closed regime needs to keep showing victories.

Aditya ji, the WS-10 is distinct from the AL-31. There is no way to alter it from the AL-31 because the WS-10 design was reversed engineered from the Western CFM-56 civilian turbofan.

And the chinis never hid the AL-31 on the J-10. There is a reason why the WS-10 is on the twin-engined Flankers but the single-engined J-10s use the AL-31. As much as we complain about the AL-31, it is still safer than the WS-10!

I posted this before. It is the J-11 used to test out the WS-10. On the right is the WS-10. Easy to spot with the short petals. On the left is the established Al-31 in case the WS-10 fails:

chola · Post by **chola** » 29 Aug 2019 09:21

An interesting post on PLA fighter engines at one of the Amreeki run chini watch forums (SDF.)

It looks like a complete logistical mess with multiple marks of the AL-31 and WS-10:

AL-31F: SU-27SK J-11A, SU-30MKK
AL-31FN: J-10A, J-10S
AL-31F M1: J-10B, J-10C
AL-31F3: J-15
AL-31FXX: J-20
AL-41-F1S: SU-35

WS-10A: J-11B, J-11BS
WS-10B: J-16
WS-10X: J-10C (new mass production engine)
WS-10XX: J-20 (interim mass production engine)
WS-15: J-20 (future)

Hendrik_2000 said: ↑
不过对于解放军而言，这个发动机型号的问题，某种程度上还更加麻烦。中国不仅有历年来引进的多种型号的AL-31F系列发动机，还有自行研制的涡扇-10“太行”系列涡扇发动机，未来还有更加先进的涡扇-15发动机，以至于解放军同时使用的涡扇发动机种类也许更多：苏-27SK/UBK、苏-30MKK、歼-11战机使用的是AL-31F；歼-10A/S使用的是AL-31FN；歼-10B/C使用的是应用AL-31F M1升级技术的FN；歼-15目前使用的是AL-31F3；苏-35使用的是AL-41F-1S；歼-11B/BS目前使用的是涡扇-10A；歼-16使用的是涡扇-10B；歼-20目前量产的型号使用的是中国改造过的AL-31F，即将量产的型号使用的是“太行”发动机（具体型号和其他战机不同），未来还计划装备涡扇-15发动机；而歼-10C及其后续发展型号也要使用机匣下置的“太行”发动机型号……

Google translate
However, for the People's Liberation Army, the problem with this engine model is somewhat more troublesome. China has not only the various models of AL-31F series engines introduced over the years, but also the self-developed turbofan-10 "Taihang" series turbofan engines. In the future, there will be more advanced turbofan-15 engines, so that the PLA can simultaneously There may be more types of turbofan engines: Su-27SK/UBK, Su-30MKK, J-11 fighters use AL-31F; 歼-10A/S use AL-31FN; 歼-10B/C It is FN using AL-31F M1 upgrade technology; 歼-15 is currently using AL-31F3; Su-35 is using AL-41F-1S; 歼-11B/BS is currently using turbofan-10A; 歼- 16 uses the turbofan-10B; the current model of the 歼-20 is the modified AL-31F in China, and the model to be mass-produced is the "Taihang" engine (the specific model is different from other fighters), the future It is also planned to be equipped with a turbofan-15 engine; the 歼-10C and its subsequent development models also use the "Taihang" engine model under the machine...

There is a method to the madness as it allows the chinis to advance on air frames without being held back by a local engine. Much like how we allowed the Tejas to progress after divorcing it from the Kaveri.

The large numbers of different AL-31s also gave Russia a a financial incentive to keep supplying them. And this is not even including the RD-93 for the JF-17 and FC-31 programs.

There is no doubt in my mind that Russia licensed the "cloning" of the Flanker series and had a hand in the re-engining of the J-11. If the chinis had crossed the Russians by copying the Flanker without consent then the Russkies would have killed their J-10, JF-17 and both stealth programs by withholding engines. The chinis would never have been able to successfully the WS-10 without Russian help -- certainly not in four years.

Pretty sure they paid through the nose for this. Russians are not very forgiving on giving up control of the IP -- we would know that -- unless it was worth their while financially.

Think of this: if we had any real political clout with the Russians, we could have clobbered the J-10, J-15, JF-17, J-20 and FC-31 programs by turning off the supply of engines.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 31 Aug 2019 11:40

I dont know if my eyes are fooling me, but the J-20 seems to be very similair to SU-47 Berkut, the Russians never really invested it and they did not bury the project either. Hmmm. Notice here clearly the Reverse swept wing is gone and replaced with a conventional wing, it looks identical to the J-20- just needa slightly different nose shaping. I suspect the reverse swept wing was smoke and mirrors

chola · Post by **chola** » 31 Aug 2019 18:11

^^^ Aditya ji, SU-47 is basically a super Flanker with inverted wings which is as far away from a swept delta like the J-20 as one can get.

The Russkie plane that people think the J-20 was derided from is the MiG 1.42 which has the same delta canard layout.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 01 Sep 2019 01:59

chola · Post by **chola** » 02 Sep 2019 06:02

Russian kids versus Made-in-China drone. Guess the outcome. LOL

https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDei ... 0917742593

@Rupprecht_A
@RupprechtDeino
Not sure if this is the usual way to say good bye in Russia ... some Russians kids wrecked the Wing Loong II display model after the MAKS 2019.

chola · Post by **chola** » 02 Sep 2019 16:20

J-10s and Gripens. They look barely distinguishable from each other.

Scratch the Gripen off our MMRCA list, looks like Cheen have access to it from the Thais.

https://mobile.twitter.com/dafengcao/st ... 8913705984

dafeng cao
@dafengcao
PLAAF J-10s & RTAF JAS-39s fly in formation.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 02 Sep 2019 17:38

chola wrote:Russian kids versus Made-in-China drone. Guess the outcome. LOL

https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDei ... 0917742593

@Rupprecht_A
@RupprechtDeino
Not sure if this is the usual way to say good bye in Russia ... some Russians kids wrecked the Wing Loong II display model after the MAKS 2019.

Wait was this a cardboard+ plastic esshhtyle mock up or a real thing ?
Okay now I am really scared of skinny russian kids.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 02 Sep 2019 17:49

chola wrote:J-10s and Gripens. They look barely distinguishable from each other.

Scratch the Gripen off our MMRCA list, looks like Cheen have access to it from the Thais.

https://mobile.twitter.com/dafengcao/st ... 8913705984

dafeng cao
@dafengcao
PLAAF J-10s & RTAF JAS-39s fly in formation.

Gorgeous sir to see the J-10s and Gripens together. I think the Gripen is non-starter for MMRCA anyway IMHO

The real MMRCA 2.0 contenders are
F-18 (highest Probability)
Typhoon (Lowest Probablility - european consortium, enough strategic leverage not gained)

The rejections are along with reasons.
Mig-35 aka Mig-29 K aka my Mig-29 UPG is the gap filler. We shall buy 21 UPG and some more Ks.
F-16 has been the arch enemy since the day PAK got it. Yeah NAH !! we need a longer stick than a F-16. 1st rule of primal combat. Go with a bigger stick.
Gripen is the Tejas of Sweden and not the F-18 of USA where all components are desi to the country.

The weird
Rafael (good probability of being procured in another batch). License production will stir Parrikar in the grave and suicide him again along with the govt.

Bring on the FOC followed by Mk1a and MWF.

chola · Post by **chola** » 02 Sep 2019 18:08

Khalsa wrote:
chola wrote:Russian kids versus Made-in-China drone. Guess the outcome. LOL

https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDei ... 0917742593

Wait was this a cardboard+ plastic esshhtyle mock up or a real thing ?
Okay now I am really scared of skinny russian kids.

Khalsa ji, the rivets and the landing gear fairing make me think it is the real thing. A little too much detail for a mockup?

I think Russian kids are used to climbing all over the rugged machines they have at their museums. Why should this one be any different? But weird no representative from AVIC tried to stop what looks like an entire class of middle schoolers from mobbing it.

Anyhoo, rather not have a Tejas on static display at MAKS. Every one of those things is precious! lol

chola · Post by **chola** » 02 Sep 2019 18:26

Khalsa wrote: Gorgeous sir to see the J-10s and Gripens together. I think the Gripen is non-starter for MMRCA anyway IMHO

The real MMRCA 2.0 contenders are
F-18 (highest Probability)
Typhoon (Lowest Probablility - european consortium, enough strategic leverage not gained)

The rejections are along with reasons.
Mig-35 aka Mig-29 K aka my Mig-29 UPG is the gap filler. We shall buy 21 UPG and some more Ks.
F-16 has been the arch enemy since the day PAK got it. Yeah NAH !! we need a longer stick than a F-16. 1st rule of primal combat. Go with a bigger stick.
Gripen is the Tejas of Sweden and not the F-18 of USA where all components are desi to the country.

The weird
Rafael (good probability of being procured in another batch). License production will stir Parrikar in the grave and suicide him again along with the govt.

Bring on the FOC followed by Mk1a and MWF.

Okay, I'm a bit partial to the Teens but that pretty in line with my thinking, Khalsa ji.

Tejas family first and foremost but if they insist on MMRCA then F-18 or Rafale (if it is not extended from the 36.)

I like the F-Solah which can give us total mastery of the PAF's best plane since we'll have it as DACT. But I understand your point, Sir!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 05 Sep 2019 06:11

This story says that PLA came 100kms inside India. 100 KILOMETRES?????

How does IA/IAF allow this?

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 05 Sep 2019 11:27

Duel In The Himalayas: How India And China Square Off

chola · Post by **chola** » 06 Sep 2019 10:39

UlanBatori wrote:This story says that PLA came 100kms inside India. 100 KILOMETRES?????

How does IA/IAF allow this?

Either they are a bunch of incompetent SDREs quaking in their dhotis or the story overstates things.

Maybe our jawans also go 100 kilometres into THEIR territory too.

I trust the IA/IAF to not let the chinis just go willy nilly into Bharat.

chola · Post by **chola** » 06 Sep 2019 10:48

Looks like the Copy Hawk is in service. Multiple identification numbers -- LH prefix is frontline army aviation. It took them 30 years to clone the S-70C but they finally did it. lol

https://mobile.twitter.com/OedoSoldier/ ... 9879192577

OedoSoldier
@OedoSoldier
Z-20

https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDei ... 0454236161

@Rupprecht_A
@RupprechtDeino
What an impressive image showing three Z-19s and two Z-20s in close formation.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 06 Sep 2019 11:33

I have a feeling the way the Chinese are rapidly building their Naval assets, there is no Electronics and other stuff can be tested in that time frame.

I this this less to do with Pacific but more to do with Belt and Road Debt enforce ability. Thats why they are building recreational cruise ships along with Aircraft Carriers, I doubt they are going to take on East Asian Nations, USA or even India with this but their aggressive action is going to be in Africa or South America against a country with very weak miltary. This going to be done by them so that they get some leverage since I think they are seeing Mass defaults all over the world right now.

It will only post that First Military actions when the PLAAN is tested in the real world we will see what direction the PRC will take. In 1962 we are attacked not because of any real Territorial dispute, but they saw in us as weakest neighbor and there was no real risk for them of the result beign anything other than a victory.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 06 Sep 2019 17:15

chola wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:This story says that PLA came 100kms inside India. 100 KILOMETRES?????

How does IA/IAF allow this?
Either they are a bunch of incompetent SDREs quaking in their dhotis or the story overstates things.

Maybe our jawans also go 100 kilometres into THEIR territory too.

I trust the IA/IAF to not let the chinis just go willy nilly into Bharat.

I think the area commander(s) would face court-martial if they allowed cheen platoon to walk into a town 100kms from the border. Maybe the correct info is 100m.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 06 Sep 2019 18:04

^^
https://theprint.in/opinion/satellite-i ... ra/287327/
Satellite images show China road runs deep into Arunachal: Defence expert Abhijit Iyer-Mitra

Backed by significant infrastructure and two possible military bases, a nearly one-km-long road originates in China and runs deep into India.

When the Indian Army Wednesday denied BJP MP Tapir Gao’s claim that China was intruding into the Chaglagam and Bishing area of Arunachal Pradesh, I decided to look for anything that might hold as evidence of intrusion. I found no discernible evidence of intrusion in the Chaglagam region of the state. However, based on help from various open-source intelligence, or OSINT, handles, what we ended up detecting is far more serious: not only have the Chinese intruded in the northern region at Bishing about 175 km from Chaglagam, but they have also built a road approximately 1 kilometre deep into the Indian side of the Line of Actual Control. This road enters from the east where the border runs north-south, and runs parallel to the east-west orientation of the border.

I too decided to check that area out on Google Earth.

Based on Googles take on the LAC, the Chinese have built tracks right up to the LAC on their side. One can also see some tracks/clearings on the Indian side of the LAC.

However, one must remember that the LAC as shown on the various maps are sometimes not aligned with the actual LAC. My guess is that the distortions are usually due to the terrain and geometric programming of the LAC line. I have noticed such quirks on the LAC before.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 06 Sep 2019 20:39

chola wrote:Looks like the Copy Hawk is in service. ... It took them 30 years to clone the S-70C but they finally did it. lol

I don't think this is a LOL moment. 30 years to catch up to near-current chopper tech is not bad. 30 years is what it took us to catch up to fighter tech as well. Besides, if no war has happened in the last 30 years, what does it matter? Its here now and that is what matters.

I am impressed by the determination of the Chinese to beg/borrow/steal and do what they need to do to catch up with the world.

They are also smart to know that if they don't start a war in the region, nobody else will, either. So they use this quiet time to build up their stuff. Any war involving them will start by their initiation, and not imposed on them by others. They know this very well. In India, we tend to act as if war will start tomorrow and if we don't have capabilities already in place today, all will be lost. This is because we are the victims of aggression, but never the initiators (until recently). So we don't get this luxury of methodically building up homegrown solutions. Everything is an emergency buy.

The world will keep giggling at the Chinese through all this learning process, but once they catch up and start matching their peers, the giggling will stop.

Suresh S · Post by **Suresh S** » 06 Sep 2019 20:46

I like this post

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 06 Sep 2019 21:31

With respect to the Chinese incursions in one of the Fish Tail areas (there are two deep U shaped kinks in India-China boundary in northern most part of AP, towards top right) actually means nothing. That area is very highly forested and the boundary runs along water-shed. Locals still cross into other side, as do some locals from Chinese side.

There are no Indian or Chinese troops guarding this borders. Simply because no large scale deployment is possible. A 10-20 men patrol of PLA could've come inside and gone back. They can literally live in that area for months w/o a soul seeing them. The area is very remote and there isn't even a local village. Hunters/gathers go into these areas and it is they who would've seen the bridge.

While the area is remote for both parties, Chinese have one advantage.

If you look at the map, you'll see a valley running in NE-SE direction. It starts at the Chinese positions opposite Kibithoo and runs for almost 100 km parallel to the border. Border is under 20 km from roads in this valley. From our side, most of border in this broader area is 50+ km from nearest road-head. Having said that, many roads have been built and I think both ITBP and Army contingents are deployed much farther now, 20-25 km from border.

Even then, given the terrain, 20-25 km is easily a day's march.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 06 Sep 2019 21:40

^^ Reading both posts above raises more than a little cause for concern. How is this different from Brig. WhatzitSingh of Kargil ignoring reports from shepherds and eventually ordering Lt. Saurabh Kalia and his men to "go up there and bring them down by the scruff of the neck"?

So many decades after 1962, the idea that the Chinese will keep trying to invade, and that India needs to be watchful, does not seem to have penetrated even in basic training to the psyche of Indian commanders. WTH are the satellites for if no one analyzes their images?
What I see is that the Chinese are hitting back for the Doklam LossOfFace by intruding with roads and all, right into India. And this is not a serious matter?
Kabir ke dohe:

... jisko jitna chahiye.
Kaat-kaat le jayiye.

Has it occurred to the einsteins in Dilli WHY the PLA might be going to all the trouble of building north-south roads in remote, unwanted forested territory? Maybe to lay an express train track, that can bring 15 goods trains per hour carrying divisions of tanks, guns etc?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Sep 2019 13:49

this is a nice picture of the chinese aircraft carrier Liaoning

twitter

chola · Post by **chola** » 07 Sep 2019 16:00

vivek_ahuja wrote:
chola wrote:Looks like the Copy Hawk is in service. ... It took them 30 years to clone the S-70C but they finally did it. lol
I don't think this is a LOL moment. 30 years to catch up to near-current chopper tech is not bad. 30 years is what it took us to catch up to fighter tech as well. Besides, if no war has happened in the last 30 years, what does it matter? Its here now and that is what matters.

I am impressed by the determination of the Chinese to beg/borrow/steal and do what they need to do to catch up with the world.

They are also smart to know that if they don't start a war in the region, nobody else will, either. So they use this quiet time to build up their stuff. Any war involving them will start by their initiation, and not imposed on them by others. They know this very well. In India, we tend to act as if war will start tomorrow and if we don't have capabilities already in place today, all will be lost. This is because we are the victims of aggression, but never the initiators (until recently). So we don't get this luxury of methodically building up homegrown solutions. Everything is an emergency buy.

The world will keep giggling at the Chinese through all this learning process, but once they catch up and start matching their peers, the giggling will stop.

Sir, it is an LOL moment in the context of their vaunted history of reverse engineering. You see those Z-19s that the Z-20s are in formation with? Those are variants of the Z-9 which in turn was a ToT of the French Dauphin which had been produced and flown in Cheen since 1994 (civilian version since 1981.) The time line parallels the Z-20's.

With ToT, the chinis had a working Dauphin for decades. With RE, it took them decades to make a working copy of the Black Hawk. I find it hilarious that anyone would think reverse engineering is worth the effort (unless you are forced to in an embargo.)

The modern Chinese helo fleet is mainly countless variants from the ToT of the Dauphin and Super Frelon. The same could be said of the PLAAF's fighter fleet with the Flanker ToT in the J-11 and the Lavi-ToT in the J-10.

This also proves that our own path in seeking co-production like the Dhruv, MKI and Hawk is the proper one. The one bad thing in regards to our TOT agreements as opposed to Cheen's is that they end up owning the "technology transfers" with full rights to build endless numbers and variants while we have screwdriver giri where we are forced to build a single variant in a set number stipulated by contract. We must negotiate better terms.

chola · Post by **chola** » 07 Sep 2019 16:08

UlanBatori wrote: What I see is that the Chinese are hitting back for the Doklam LossOfFace by intruding with roads and all, right into India. And this is not a serious matter?
Kabir ke dohe:
... jisko jitna chahiye.
Kaat-kaat le jayiye.

Oi. If the Indian military is not on highest alert after Doklam then they will never be.

You are assuming extreme incompetence and neglect on the part of the IA, sheepherder.

What the DDM says is not always the reality of what our jawans do. I find it incomprehensible that the IA would allow chinis to patrol "100 kms" into India, especially after Doklam.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 07 Sep 2019 20:48

I find it incomprehensible that the IA would allow chinis to patrol "100 kms" into India, especially after Doklam.

Exactly. But then see the confirmation of the 1-km ROAD laid into Indian territory. That is the revenge for Doklam. If the enemy build roads, rail stations, airports, cinema halls, ship-building yards, oil rigs etc deep inside one's territory without one being aware at all, the there is surely a problem, hain?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 07 Sep 2019 20:55

My evil 6th coujin has a relative who retired from IA. Was stationed in the Himalayan border. Told a story about an incident. Seems an IA major got in a jeep/ SUV and went for a patrol. Disappeared without a trace. Lot of searches done by various means.

EVENTUALLY, a message came from the Other Side (PLA): they basically pointed to the exact spot where the Major was found, entombed with his SUV in a big block of ice that resulted from an avalanche that buried his SUV.

The local babus then rushed off a cable to Dilli declaring how they had brilliantly and through sheer hard work and persistence, found the Major's body. Not a whisper about cheen help

Trouble is cheen knew they would do this. They Amby had walked over the Raksha Mantri-alaya with the same info that they had given to the local search people. So as soon as the Report came, Dilli knew it was full of lies. Heads rolled.

So if you pooch: Are there lazy incompetents in the IA? the answer unfortunately has to be Yes.

chola · Post by **chola** » 08 Sep 2019 11:30

^^^ There are lazy and incompetent walas in every profession, Sir. But this would be incompetence and neglect on an institutional scale not a few desis taking the short cut. The IA (and IAF) would have to fail completely as institutions to allow foreign troops 100 kms inside India. Sorry I do not believe it.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Sep 2019 15:47

https://translate.googleusercontent.com ... kwvLhAzkiw

According to Xinhua News Agency on September 8, the National Institute of Electronic Technology (CETC) of China has successfully tested the anti-stealth quantum radar system.

Capacity through Chinese words

CETC said the new system is capable of detecting a target within a radius of 100 km, using unique photon detection technology to detect the presence of stealth aircraft. According to CETC, quantum radar is a form of device that uses quantum photon beams with the goal of providing better object detection than traditional radar systems.

This method is thought to be useful in finding targets with low cross radiance, such as aircraft equipped with stealth technology or those that use proactive techniques to destroy electronic waves or obstructing the operation of enemy radars.

It is reported that this is not the first time China has announced successful development and testing with its high-tech anti-stealth radar system. In June 2016, China also launched its latest achievement in the field of anti-stealth radar, the new-generation meter wave radar JL3D-91B.

With the ability to detect fifth-generation stealth aircraft, China's JL3D-91B anti-stealth VHF radar has caught the attention of many foreign visitors at the China International Defense Electronics Exhibition. The 10th took place in Beijing from 11 to 13 May 2016.

According to the introduction at the exhibition, in recent years China has continuously made breakthroughs in the field of anti-stealth radar and has risen to the leading position in the field of technology in this field.

At the exhibition site, the VHF JL3D-91B radar system was introduced to be capable of detecting 4th generation stealth fighters and other common flying targets as well as missile radiation sources. ballistic, through azimuth, altitude, and measurement parameters.

According to the introduction of the Chinese side, this 3D radar is capable of independently performing long-range surveillance missions, ensuring navigation information for high-level air command, air-to-air combat. long-range combat has been identified.

Since the US launched its first stealth fighter, the F-117 Nighthawk in 1983, and especially the fifth-generation F-22 Raptor stealth fighter in 1987, looking out for radar equipment - mainstreamed in air defense systems lost "land using martial arts".

In principle, VHF radios are inherently "immune" to current stealth techniques of countries around the world, sometimes referred to as "innate anti-stealth radar". However, besides it also exist major disadvantages.

The traditional conception that, with low accuracy (especially in height parameters), at low angles creates a large blind area, poor battlefield adaptability, VHF radars cannot take over. The important task is the anti-stealth "eye system" systems, which will be eliminated.

However, really concerned about threats from stealth aircraft, China has been constantly researching this field. In recent years, the features of many VHF radars introduced by Beijing at military industry exhibitions have been constantly improved.

After being peeled off

Just about five years ago, Chinese radars were stripped of poor quality. For example, the Ecuadorian contract had a lifetime memory contract, when buying Chinese radar systems, but soon had to "return the goods to the place of production".

The contract between Ecuador and China was signed as "super modern" radars YLC-2C and YLC-18.

Ecuador rushed to buy Chinese radars advertised as "world-leading features," shortly after Colombia's EMB-314 Super Tucano fighter-bombers invaded the country and attacked a Colombian rebel base, located on the territory of Ecuador.

In 2010-2011, Ecuador received a total of 4 Chinese radios, with a very cheap contract of 60 million USD and is expected to start operation from October 10/2012. However, only a short time later, all of these radars were returned by Ecuador.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Sep 2019 15:48

"YLC-2C and YLC-18"

Same radars purchased by PAF for its gapfilling FWIW.

chola · Post by **chola** » 14 Sep 2019 16:02

Karan M wrote:"YLC-2C and YLC-18"

Same radars purchased by PAF for its gapfilling FWIW.

A LOL moment for the time being! But their iteration cycle is fast and furious. Their quality improves after each cycle and they will become competitive at some point if not already.

We saw this in the export sectors that Cheen dominates today -- electronics, appliances, infrastructure machinery, etc. Their stuff was shite and not fit for market in the 1980s but then things changed around in 1990s and they began taking over sectors and this continues today. Khan has taken up a trade and technology war to try to stop this.