J&K Union Territory-2019

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Aug 2019 01:15

Ppl: In this whole tamasha, the Great Mystery is the same as the classic Arthur Conan Doyle question:
The Mystery of the Barking Dog.
The desi media is not barking. Any explanations? I don't believe that MAD can have terrorized prize-winning dorks that much. The India Today bibi who accompanied RaGa and got her ass kicked out of the airport, is not getting any sympathy. People are describing her as a rabble-rouser.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 27 Aug 2019 01:28

Don’t read too much into this as it only means Modiji has the Donald figured out. Trump will say anything for a photo op and will flip around at any given time.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 27 Aug 2019 01:40

UlanBatori wrote:Then why is ANZAC left out? Bigger in influence than Canadastan by a long way todin. Canada is about on par with Iceland. Italy with Ireland. I can't remember if Ireland was on UK side or Deutschland side in WW2. The movie Ryan's Daughter indicated both ways.
be

Ulanbatoriji,
As far as I can remember the Republic of Ireland was neutral throughout the WWII. However, this did not stop many private Irish citizens to join the British armed forces. This was not against the Irish law. Ireland is also not a part of Nato.
Gautam

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Aug 2019 03:27

V_Raman wrote:I don’t understand why India got invited to G7. Maybe to discuss sending troops to AFG with all relevant parties?

Please for one last time explain this obsession of sending Indian troops to Afghanistan?

Why should that be done?

BTW< France invited India to G-7 as a guest.

They also invited Russia but they chose not to attend.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Aug 2019 03:29

abhijitm wrote:
UlanBatori wrote: To escape total irrelevance, maybe?

From Wikidevata:

WTH is "Advanced Economy"? ITALY?? CANADA??? Italy is a basket case not significantly better than Greece. Canada is a poodle sustained by Fracking. Japan is an aging has-been, long overtaken by Taiwan, China, Korea. UQ is a terrorist haven and was-long-ago, not even a has-been. Heading for bankruptcy.

China is not there, Russia is not there. India is already #5 in economic size and #3 in scams after China and US. So w/o India, it is US, Germany and 5 (Yawn)s.
G7 is the post ww2 allied group to control world economy to their benefits. Nothing to do with big or small economy.

Post World War II, Italy and Germany in Europe and Japan were in shambles.

Please don't pass of bias as fact.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Aug 2019 03:38

Let me quote myself again now that ramana is reading.

UlanBatori wrote:Ppl: In this whole tamasha, the Great Mystery is the same as the classic Arthur Conan Doyle question:
The Mystery of the Barking Dog.
The desi media is not barking. Any explanations? I don't believe that MAD can have terrorized prize-winning dorks that much. The India Today bibi who accompanied RaGa and got her ass kicked out of the airport, is not getting any sympathy. People are describing her as a rabble-rouser.

Any comments? Either there is a sea-change in public sentiment and even the MSM Editors have seen it (or their owners cracked the whip?) or we have completely underestimated the level of power that the gov is willing to exert. I hope it is the former. Cannot be the goodness in the hearts of the editors because there never was any.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Aug 2019 03:59

UlanBatori wrote:
Explaining the new criteria, a police officer said that “anybody who is greeted by more than 10 people in a mohalla is a potential mob mobiliser” and “thus seen as a threat”. A lower-rung PDP worker from South Kashmir said that since 2016, he has been living away from home because of the militants’ threat. “Now the government too is after us. I can’t go home because I may be killed by militants. I can’t stay here because I may be picked up by police. I am hiding from both the sides now,” he said.
He echoes the questions being asked on the ground. “For us, Mufti was India in Kashmir. Our party was in alliance with BJP till last year. How can any government go after us?’’ he asked. “Perhaps over time, we had forgotten that when the day comes, we would be treated like any other Kashmiri — nothing more than suspects and jailed”.

Asked about the detention of mainstream leaders, the government spokesman in Srinagar said: “Local authorities are taking all such steps as may be necessary to maintain public order. I assure you that everything that is being done is being done under appropriate laws”.
Also this:
JeM conducting training for underwater attack, forces on alert: Navy Chief

Since the 1950s Kashmir was painted as a separatism, geopolitics, religious fervor, corruption and terrorism etc. etc.
The reality is Kashmir is a two family love hate problem that has allowed foreign powers to meddle: Pakistan, US and China. UK does too but its toothless mangy circus Lion kept by US for show.

Getting back, Kashmir under Congress was a love-hate relationship between Nehru-Abdullah families. Always the winner of Kashmir gets into an alliance with the winner in Delhi and become part of the central govt.

During times of love lots of goodies are granted to Abdullah for Kashmir but they got greedy and wanted Cashmore. Then hate kicks in and the outsiders jump in to meddle; Pakistan with terrorists, US with do-gooders internationalists, Chinese with nukes and belts and suspenders to keep the Paki shalwars from falling off. Then Nehru-Gandhis depose Abdullahs via political rivals, jailing for spying, governor/President's rule.
In this cycle the Mufti create soft separatism and became third force in the Valley.
And the era of coalition governments in Center ended with 2014.
BJP formed alliance with PDP and ended the Nehru-Abdullah love hate relationship by forming the alternate govt.
But Mufti dies and the baton passed on to his daughter Mehbooba.
Now she got bit by the Cashmore bug and she started trying to expand in Jammu and cut down the BJP role.

BJP pulled out of the govt and led to imposing Governor rule and later President rule.

It was realized at the basic level Kashmir is a political problem all others are different layers of icing with bitter stuff instead of sugar. And the layers have to be dealt with appropriately.

The layers or perspectives are:

1) Political leaders : Abdullah and Mufti (have degrees of support from West)
2) Religious Separatists: Geelani, Lone, Mere Unwise, (Support from Pakistan, and US)
3) Stonepelters : Average unemployed street thug (support by 1 and 2)
4) Terrorists: All supported by Pakistan even if they are born in Kashmir. (Support by 2 and Pakistan)
5) Delhi based minor rabble rousers who cast big shadow

How were these tackled?

1) By passing the J&K Reorganization Bill, GOI took the ground away from soft separatists. You are either a separatist or a nationalist. No middle ground.
This is old Chanakya adage: Give the opponent a choice. No sitting on the wall. Once they make a choice the battle is half won.
2) Religious Separatists connections to Pak and being under control with sat phones have shown these people to be willing foreign agents. And their wealth in rest of India is highlighted to show how they benefit while Kashmiris get killed in terrorism.
3) Stone Pelters; These are getting alternate venues to channel their free time and return from path of violence. The shot guns convinced the families that its better to have them alive then dead.
4) GOI has said many times after being sworn in that terrorists will get no quarter and will be killed. Even in the first speech on Kashmir policy on May 30th it was announced in Lok Sabha.

5)The Delhi based weekend protesters don't matter. and can be ignored.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 27 Aug 2019 04:05

India though not a member was invited, China was not:
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/p ... 2019-08-26
PM Modi invited to G7 summit despite India not being part of supergroup: Here's why
The Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) had said that the invitation from the French president was a "reflection of the personal chemistry" between the two leaders and also "recognition of India as a major economic power".
Geeta Mohan, New Delhi, August 26, 2019
PM Modi has been personally invited by French President
PM Modi arrived Biarritz on Sunday where the G7 Summit is taking place
He is expected to meet Donald Trump; the leaders may discuss Kashmir
Prime Minister Narendra Modi will be attending the G7 Summit in France on Monday. Although India is not a member of the G7 group, PM Modi would be attending the G7 Summit as a special guest as he has been personally invited by French President Emmanuel Macron. The countries that are part of the G7 include the United Kingdom, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, and the United States.
The Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) had said that the invitation was a "reflection of the personal chemistry" between the two leaders and also "recognition of India as a major economic power". PM Modi arrived Biarritz on Sunday where the G7 Summit is taking place.
PM Modi held a meeting with United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres. He is also expected to hold meetings with United States President Donald Trump.
.....
Gautam

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Aug 2019 07:14

I don't want to start a war here, but have something to gently introduce, like NaMo with 370dissing but without the power of IA etc. Back in the 1960s/70s, Punjab flourished through hard work and good management. Standards of living zoomed. People from dumps like Malloostan aspired to go get good jaab in Chandigarh etc.
The Punjabis were as we all know, highly admired all over India, at least in Malloostan. Military, sports teams, you name it. The strength, the energy..

But unfortunately, several ppl in Punjab didn't see it that way. They saw themselves held back by the sdre masses. They became restive. They resented being told that they had to be part of a sdre basket-case nation. Their buddies went to Canadastan and UKstan and succeeded. All this is of course perception, don't beat me up, I know that many who were in the Punjab will call me stupid and ignorant. No problem.

In short, too many Punjabis came to think of themselves as being way too good and civilized to be mired in a swamp like India, dragged down by poor, ignorant Indians. The admiration that they got from the rest, they returned as contempt. They failed to realize that they were admired for being INDIANS. Role-models for what other Indians wanted to be. Not as some foreign entities. We were proud of them wearing the Indian colors. If they wore some other colors we had no interest in them, except that they were **NOT** welcome to attack India.

And so they lost much of that admiration as they started attacking innocent people from other parts of India who went to Punjab. Indians turned away from Punjab more and more until absolute catastrophe occurred with the terrorist war, assassination of the PM, and the ensuing pogroms that went to the other extreme.

Not so long ago when I went to Patiala for the first time, I was kind-of shocked by what I saw: things had basically stopped as of the 1970s. Urban decay, poor maintenance, all signs of an economy that had come to a halt and not really got started again. Dispirited. Demoralized. The sdre lowlands had progressed steadily like tortoises, and overtaken the lame Punjabi tigers.

*****************************************

The images from Kashmir today are eye-opening. Their urban infra is apparently waaaay beyond what Malloostan or Odisha or other parts of India have (that I have seen). They seem relatively well-fed. I always thought they were dressed better than Malloos mainly because it gets cold there - but now I think it is because they are a lot wealthier as well. On average, I mean. The hill-dwellers of the Malloostan High Ranges and the Nilgiris also live in cold places, but don't have anywhere near the natty couture of the Kashmiris.

I see Punjab of the 1970s being repeated. And that story did not end well. How will India avoid going down that path as Kashmir is integrated properly? If Kashmiris keep up their snootiness they are going down the Khalistan path. The result, beyond the needless bloodshed, will be the utter waste of human resources that we see in urban Punjab: stagnation because peaceful growth is not allowed to flourish.

As for the Kashmiri netas that are learning to make chappatis, no loss. I don't see them articulating the above, or having any chance of leading the state to a better future. They are stuck in the past.

The stone-throwers HAVE to be stomped on. Not doing so will destroy the people of Kashmir.

Summary of all the above: Kashmiris need to start realizing that they are Indians. Deal with it. Ain't no US Marines or UK James Bond coming to rescue them from evil Indians, not to mention the TFTA PA SSG herrows.

Sandrokottos · Post by **Sandrokottos** » 27 Aug 2019 08:18

^So true. Also wanted to add, all those sickulars counting on mallustan to stand up to evil communals, once the gelf money stops, mallus (even the muslim ones) will change their colors so fast, without a trace of sicklularism that the sickulars will wonder if they are in "1984" (aka Big Brother) world, where history is changed retroactively. Mallus will survive latching on to the next big thing after gelf, and you can guess what that will be. Kashmiris here in mallustan think this is a land where people are sympathetic to them. They just have to take one look at mallu representation in the yeevil Indian Army and see how mallus are grossly over-represented for their pouplation in the same yeevil Indian Army that takes pleasure butchering their phreedom phiting herros. When it comes to the civil services this is many times more the case, with even the yeevil BJP and Modi being advised by those two-timing mallus.

williams · Post by **williams** » 27 Aug 2019 08:38

UlanBatori wrote:Let me quote myself again now that ramana is reading.

UlanBatori wrote:Ppl: In this whole tamasha, the Great Mystery is the same as the classic Arthur Conan Doyle question:
The Mystery of the Barking Dog.
The desi media is not barking. Any explanations? I don't believe that MAD can have terrorized prize-winning dorks that much. The India Today bibi who accompanied RaGa and got her ass kicked out of the airport, is not getting any sympathy. People are describing her as a rabble-rouser.
Any comments? Either there is a sea-change in public sentiment and even the MSM Editors have seen it (or their owners cracked the whip?) or we have completely underestimated the level of power that the gov is willing to exert. I hope it is the former. Cannot be the goodness in the hearts of the editors because there never was any.

Here my gut feeling. It is just a gut feeling so take it for what it is worth. These are the reasons for the media's muted response.

1. There is the obvious market/trp problem for some of these Media houses. I am pretty sure many in the public are swarming towards media that presents a fair and nationalistic view. Modi 2.0 win proved where the market wind is blowing.

2. CBI/ED/Bureaucracy is cleaned up and officers are emboldened to take action on corruption/economic offenses. So whatever politico-mafia-media conglomeration Congress folks have built with these media houses have crumbled or shaken a bit.

3. Kashmir Admin has done a very good job in clamping down any fake news mongering that can feed into the Media.

4. Govt does have the financial strings on SM channels and has done a good job in making sure twitter/facebook does its job of bringing down provocative handles.

5. Weakened and divided Congress and Commies never expected this heavy decisive punch from MAD and the political shock wave has literally paralyzed their media strategy.

6. Even though it is reported very less, BSF/Army is doing a great job in checking infiltration and giving hell to the Pakis in the border. That means fewer piglets in the hinterland and less news for the Media to harp about.

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 27 Aug 2019 09:39

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUhbjxNCmQ

Worth seeing the interactions Sushil Pandit and JKLF guy discuss .
Should be seen in full.

JKLF guy is in denial. Hamid Bashani is neutral.
In many other conversations he makes pro India statements.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 27 Aug 2019 10:07

Guys, especially Pankaj et. al, please don't jump all over me, but I hate to throw a spanner in the works, but do you guys think that Trump Bahadur's pronouncements at G-7 is all that rosy as far as India goes? I am a bit skeptical on the following counts:

1. I don't understand how revoking an article of the Indian constitution is a bilateral issue with TSP. Note Trump did not say that its an internal matter. OK to cut some slack, he meant Kashmir is a bilateral issue. But still the crux of TSP's current antics is revoking of 370, so what is there to discuss bilaterally on this issue?

2. Trump seems to have prevailed upon ModiJi to hold talks with TSP. And even ModiJi was sounding rather conciliatory with all that BS about him telling Taliban Khan that both must poverty and such.

3. Conspicuously missing from ModiJi's statement is India's stated position that India will talk to TSP only when it stops terror. But today he only mentioned that India and TSP can sort things out and no need to pain a 3rd party to mediate.

4. And neither did Trump say anything about TSP terror.

I know diplomacy is all about nuances, but still the above points need some thought on what exactly prevailed between ModiJi and Trump at G-7.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 27 Aug 2019 10:24

CRamS wrote:It its an internal matter. OK to cut some slack, he meant Kashmir is a bilateral issue. But still the crux of TSP's current antics is revoking of 370, so what is there to discuss bilaterally on this issue?

That's all it meant. Was 370 even mentioned anywhere? Actually, since it is our internal matter, why would it even be brought up at an international forum. This goes very well with our position.. No?

CRamS wrote:2. Trump seems to have prevailed upon ModiJi to hold talks with TSP. And even ModiJi was sounding rather conciliatory with all that BS about him telling Taliban Khan that both must poverty and such.

How do you come to such a conclusion? PM Modi said that when Dimmy took over, he HAD ASKED him to work together for peace and fighting poverty. Naturally Dimmy took no heed.

CRamS wrote:3. Conspicuously missing from ModiJi's statement is India's stated position that India will talk to TSP only when it stops terror. But today he only mentioned that India and TSP can sort things out and no need to pain a 3rd party to mediate.

That is our stated position that "India and TSP can sort things out and no need to pain a 3rd party to mediate." Also it's our stated position that talks and terror cannot go together. This was about bilateralism. Full stop.

CRamS wrote:4. And neither did Trump say anything about TSP terror.

He was also silent on Afghanistan, despite tweeting about it frequently for the past few days.

CRamS wrote:I know diplomacy is all about nuances, but still the above points need some thought on what exactly prevailed between ModiJi and Trump at G-7.

No one can say for sure what exactly happened there, except India reiterating our stated position on bilateral matters and shutting the door once and for all on any form of mediation. Also reiterated by Trump. In many ways, this meeting served to deflate all the Baki balloons in the wake of Dimmy's meeting with Trump last month. There Trump spoke about mediation, today he reaffirmed India's stand on bilateralism, thus, shutting down Baki hopes.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 27 Aug 2019 10:26

CRamS wrote:Guys, especially Pankaj et. al, please don't jump all over me, but I hate to throw a spanner in the works, but do you guys think that Trump Bahadur's pronouncements at G-7 is all that rosy as far as India goes? I am a bit skeptical on the following counts:

1. I don't understand how revoking an article of the Indian constitution is a bilateral issue with TSP. Note Trump did not say that its an internal matter. OK to cut some slack, he meant Kashmir is a bilateral issue. But still the crux of TSP's current antics is revoking of 370, so what is there to discuss bilaterally on this issue?

2. Trump seems to have prevailed upon ModiJi to hold talks with TSP. And even ModiJi was sounding rather conciliatory with all that BS about him telling Taliban Khan that both must poverty and such.

3. Conspicuously missing from ModiJi's statement is India's stated position that India will talk to TSP only when it stops terror. But today he only mentioned that India and TSP can sort things out and no need to pain a 3rd party to mediate.

4. And neither did Trump say anything about TSP terror.

I know diplomacy is all about nuances, but still the above points need some thought on what exactly prevailed between ModiJi and Trump at G-7.

Where did Modi or Frump comment on A.370? Either you don't understand or pretend not to understand because it suits you agenda of spreading FUD. You choose.

1. A.370 is an internal issue.
2. Kashmir is a "bilateral" issue with Bakistan.
3. Terrorism is a "global" issues.

ALL 3 Indian position are equally valid at the same time. Where is the confusion?

On pt. 2, Nida Turtle himself stated a few days back that India is willing to talk to bakis. Modi has always maintained the India is WILLING to talk to bakistan. Where is the confusion and why this "Trump prevailing on Modi"? Why create FUD around issues that have been clarified multiple times in the past?

On pt 3, Modi does not have to recount the whole history of India-Bak to make a simple point. He is not as insecure as you are.

Pt 4 is as bogus as they come. Why would Frump talk TSP terror? DId Modi make "TSP terror" a centerpiece of his current interaction with Frump? You need to move on as Modi has done.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 27 Aug 2019 11:27

williams wrote:1. There is the obvious market/trp problem for some of these Media houses.

From what I could make out (at least scouting around a few of the South Indian English & Malayalam news papers) is that at least in South India, there is no major hit in market/TRP for not towing the GoI line w.r.t J&K. Many channels & news papers in South India (The Hindu, Mathrubhumi, Malayala Manorama and even Deccan Herald to an extent) are still trying to prove that GoI messed up at J&K.

Weakened and divided Congress and Commies never expected this heavy decisive punch from MAD and the political shock wave has literally paralyzed their media strategy.

This I think was the most decisive factor. When it comes to J&K for the secular traitors their only solace seems to be in the main stream media. The leftist jokers do not have much value any ways. Congress is now in a tough situation and even their own MPs and MLAs are in two minds. Judiciary also seems to be not in a mood to get involved at this moment. So the only people left are MSM.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Aug 2019 12:00

khan · Post by **khan** » 27 Aug 2019 12:32

Also worth pointing out, that Imran Khan himself has said that he is done talking to India

“Talks” with Pakistan are always fine, they will send some bureaucrat to have chai biscoot.

To the Pakistani’s, “bilateral” talks with Modi’s India are like going into a dark room with someone who has been sodomizing you for the last 5 years

They don’t want these “talks” & Modi is quite happy to be reasonable & keep offering these talks to keep the season of love, peace and happiness from the Shimla agreement alive

Pakistan wants direct foreign intervention & they are not getting it.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Aug 2019 13:42

Yes, but knowing them they must be planning something hideous, hope it flops big time.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Aug 2019 17:53

Sachin and others:

The mystery is that these are the same folks (Shekhar Gupta for instance) who were whining loudly even as the Kargil war was going on in 1999, and then about Slaughter Of Democracy as India tried to conduct elections in 2000.

Dar-ka-butt is also quiet. Arundhoti has Spoken, but is getting roundly laughed-at. IOW, the Big Guns of Commiedom are having to come out themselves: the first layer of mass attacks that precedes them, is just not there.

Which is why the Malloostani IAS aphsar has gone out and committed basically credibility-soosai. The govt. was already after him for his incognito activities.

OTOH, the anti-Modi, S-o-D tribes are in full flow, spreading all sorts of stories. And it's not coming through the front pages at least, of the MSM. What is the covert "corol-levorution" channel being used to spread this?

venkat_r · Post by **venkat_r** » 27 Aug 2019 18:25

Development has been next to nothing in all these years with 370

https://youtu.be/SKotys1LzKM

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 27 Aug 2019 18:36

Aditya_V wrote:Yes, but knowing them they must be planning something hideous, hope it flops big time.

I am sure Doval/Shah combine has planned a fitting riposte for any incident here with one in Pakistan[/u and it does not have to be a military strike to up the escalation ladder which will only give an opportunity for international bodies and other nations to intervene.There are other options. Remember what Doval said: One more Mumbai like incident and you will have to forget Baluchistan.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 27 Aug 2019 18:41

Duktha Butt

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 27 Aug 2019 18:46

On their SM channels, gotta keep leaving comments on the treatment of christians in pakistan, genocides in Baloch and treatment of uigurs by chinese that's approved by islamists.

Sumair · Post by **Sumair** » 27 Aug 2019 19:44

UlanBatori wrote:I don't want to start a war here, but have something to gently introduce, like NaMo with 370dissing but without the power of IA etc. Back in the 1960s/70s, Punjab flourished through hard work and good management. Standards of living zoomed. People from dumps like Malloostan aspired to go get good jaab in Chandigarh etc.
The Punjabis were as we all know, highly admired all over India, at least in Malloostan. Military, sports teams, you name it. The strength, the energy..

But unfortunately, several ppl in Punjab didn't see it that way. They saw themselves held back by the sdre masses. They became restive. They resented being told that they had to be part of a sdre basket-case nation. Their buddies went to Canadastan and UKstan and succeeded. All this is of course perception, don't beat me up, I know that many who were in the Punjab will call me stupid and ignorant. No problem.

In short, too many Punjabis came to think of themselves as being way too good and civilized to be mired in a swamp like India, dragged down by poor, ignorant Indians. The admiration that they got from the rest, they returned as contempt. They failed to realize that they were admired for being INDIANS. Role-models for what other Indians wanted to be. Not as some foreign entities. We were proud of them wearing the Indian colors. If they wore some other colors we had no interest in them, except that they were **NOT** welcome to attack India.

And so they lost much of that admiration as they started attacking innocent people from other parts of India who went to Punjab. Indians turned away from Punjab more and more until absolute catastrophe occurred with the terrorist war, assassination of the PM, and the ensuing pogroms that went to the other extreme.

Not so long ago when I went to Patiala for the first time, I was kind-of shocked by what I saw: things had basically stopped as of the 1970s. Urban decay, poor maintenance, all signs of an economy that had come to a halt and not really got started again. Dispirited. Demoralized. The sdre lowlands had progressed steadily like tortoises, and overtaken the lame Punjabi tigers.

*****************************************

The images from Kashmir today are eye-opening. Their urban infra is apparently waaaay beyond what Malloostan or Odisha or other parts of India have (that I have seen). They seem relatively well-fed. I always thought they were dressed better than Malloos mainly because it gets cold there - but now I think it is because they are a lot wealthier as well. On average, I mean. The hill-dwellers of the Malloostan High Ranges and the Nilgiris also live in cold places, but don't have anywhere near the natty couture of the Kashmiris.

I see Punjab of the 1970s being repeated. And that story did not end well. How will India avoid going down that path as Kashmir is integrated properly? If Kashmiris keep up their snootiness they are going down the Khalistan path. The result, beyond the needless bloodshed, will be the utter waste of human resources that we see in urban Punjab: stagnation because peaceful growth is not allowed to flourish.

As for the Kashmiri netas that are learning to make chappatis, no loss. I don't see them articulating the above, or having any chance of leading the state to a better future. They are stuck in the past.

The stone-throwers HAVE to be stomped on. Not doing so will destroy the people of Kashmir.

Summary of all the above: Kashmiris need to start realizing that they are Indians. Deal with it. Ain't no US Marines or UK James Bond coming to rescue them from evil Indians, not to mention the TFTA PA SSG herrows.

Sir you are absolutely wrong in your assessment. Punjabi masses never aspired any separatist agenda. It was a few people, who were initially empowered by congress to topple the Akalis and then went rouge. They did not have any real agenda themselves, but then invented this idea of utopian land called Khalistan to draw strength. Vast majority of Sikhs never supported this idea until 1984, when they were lynched all over India by Bajrang Dal thugs and made to feel unwanted in their own country. And your assessment of Punjab not having progressed since 1970s is also wrong. Punjab unlike most other states does not one or two major urban centres to symbolise growth thanks to its successive corrupt governments. But Punjab has grown and progressed organically lead by its people. Punjabis are immensely wealthy at village levels compared to their brethrens elsewhere in the country.

Vadivel · Post by **Vadivel** » 27 Aug 2019 19:45

Is there any equivalent for SCL Labs in India (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCL_Group) apart from IPAC which can influence mass behavior, GOI needs to work with anyone offering mass stratigic communications to blunt the paki propaganda within J&K. There is no point in only the twitter/whatsapp from nationalist working on this, need a co-ordinate effort to influence mass behavior in J&K.

I hope AS having experience in SM influencing with two cracker of 2014/2019 results needs to leverage his skills in J&K, we cannot leave it to the KM's to think and get this right, as well as only us working on this.

Check what SCL and its history for information, and The Big Hack on Netflix.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Aug 2019 19:54

^^
Thanks, I am happy to hear that. Question is, how many "bad apples" are there in Kashmir, compared to Punjab of the 1970s?

I do not hold any brief for the BD etc, but... what happened in 1984 DOES have some history and context from 1970s through 1984. Some similarities to what Godhra's history had for Gujaratis in 2002. In any case a situation where ppl get killed or brutalized based on non-"merit" criteria is in no way permissible, which is why any tendencies to start down that road must be crushed without hesitation.

30 years from now we don't want to be discussing the 2021 riots against Kashmiris and how "only a tiny percent of Kashmiris" felt themselves to be too snooty to be Indians. NOW is the time to ensure that, which is my only point.

Note that the Khalistan sh1ts are still squawking now. No learning there. The other point to convey is from KPS Gill:

"Terrorism in the Punjab did not end because The People Got Tired of Terrorism. The People NEVER wanted Terrorism in the first place. Terrorism in the Punjab ended because We Killed The Terrorists"

These words should be part of the Required Curriculum in India.

RajeevK · Post by **RajeevK** » 27 Aug 2019 20:10

Sumair wrote: Vast majority of Sikhs never supported this idea until 1984, when they were lynched all over India by Bajrang Dal thugs and made to feel unwanted in their own country.

Sumair,
Can you provide the source for your statement?
I do remember someone making a statement in 1984, when a big tree falls, the earth shakes.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 27 Aug 2019 20:32

Mad dog Nazir Ahmed sits in the UK and hoping for Modi's demise.

https://twitter.com/nazir_lord/status/1 ... 9194048513

I reported him to twitter for calling for elimination of a country's head. Let's see if anything happens, most likely the mod is another paki.

Sumair · Post by **Sumair** » 27 Aug 2019 20:40

RajeevK wrote:
Sumair wrote: Vast majority of Sikhs never supported this idea until 1984, when they were lynched all over India by Bajrang Dal thugs and made to feel unwanted in their own country.
Sumair,
Can you provide the source for your statement?
I do remember someone making a statement in 1984, when a big tree falls, the earth shakes.

Sir the 84 riots were not organic in nature. They were organized mostly by youth congress leaders who hired Bajrang Dal to do what they do best.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 27 Aug 2019 20:44

Did anyone listen to debate on India Today last night
I thought I distinctly heard Ufair Aunty tell the anchor that the Pakistani guest should roll up the UNSC resolution paper and push it up the Bum

And the guest was Peerzada
I don’t if that debate has been uploaded on Utube

Krita · Post by **Krita** » 27 Aug 2019 20:45

Sumair wrote:
RajeevK wrote: Sumair,
Can you provide the source for your statement?
I do remember someone making a statement in 1984, when a big tree falls, the earth shakes.
Sir the 84 riots were not organic in nature. They were organized mostly by youth congress leaders who hired Bajrang Dal to do what they do best.

He must have a time machine in his garage. Even, congress bootlickers will be suprised at your new anal-logy of Bajrang dal being the perpetrators.Why was Punjab divided into three states after independence?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Aug 2019 20:54

Sumair wrote:
RajeevK wrote: Sumair,
Can you provide the source for your statement?
I do remember someone making a statement in 1984, when a big tree falls, the earth shakes.
Sir the 84 riots were not organic in nature. They were organized mostly by youth congress leaders who hired Bajrang Dal to do what they do best.

the first time that I am hearing any of this.

so, the Bajrang Dal guys are available at short notice, right

all ready and raring to go

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 27 Aug 2019 20:56

Rsatchi wrote:And the guest was Peerzada

The same egg-head who called for Kashmiris to murder Hindus?

Sumair · Post by **Sumair** » 27 Aug 2019 21:00

Krita wrote:
Sumair wrote: Sir the 84 riots were not organic in nature. They were organized mostly by youth congress leaders who hired Bajrang Dal to do what they do best.
He must have a time machine in his garage. Even, congress bootlickers will be suprised at your new anal-logy of Bajrang dal being the perpetrators.Why was Punjab divided into three states after independence?

Yes the time machine called painful memories. Please do tell who were the rioters? What does the division of Punjab have to do with any of this?

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 27 Aug 2019 21:03

I have pooch for legal-eagles on the Forum
1. What is the legal option of Kashmiri Pandit who were either forced to sell land for pittance on duress or has been illegally occupied by KM
Can the full force IPC both civil and criminal laws be enforced to evict the illegal occupation.
Also can they expect any compensation for having been forced to sell for pittance
2. I am sure just like the temples in rest of India the Kashmiri temples also must have had land and property endowed to them
So what is the status of the property of the temples either destroyed or in ruins
If there are illegal occupation can they be evicted legally and the property returned to the temple committe
3. Also was there Mujrai department as per J&K constitution
Do you reckon that th illegal occupiers are worried that they will be caught
God knows what the KM dominated revenue department have made numerous ‘Ghotala’
And any of this have any bearing on the so called ‘non cooperation ‘movement of the local
And lastly a docu-drama by friendly TV be detrimental to the on going efforts to normalise the conditions
Eager for any Gyan in this matter

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 27 Aug 2019 21:08

Kashi wrote:
Rsatchi wrote:And the guest was Peerzada
The same egg-head who called for Kashmiris to murder Hindus?

Yes the super accented egg head

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 27 Aug 2019 21:16

UlanBatori wrote:Which is why the Malloostani IAS aphsar has gone out and committed basically credibility-soosai. The govt. was already after him for his incognito activities.

The Malloostani IAS aphsar also do not seem to have much popularity across India. It is once again the usual set of main stream media (few English rags like the Chindu and Malayalam rags) which is desperately trying to make a 'martyr' out of him. Clearly hiding the fact that he has a series of show cause notices waiting to be answered. Just like traitors like Shah Faesal, and that clown Kanhayya Kumar; Kerala will also take him around in a big way around the state. But as people say this too will pass.

RajeevK · Post by **RajeevK** » 27 Aug 2019 21:25

Sumair wrote:
Krita wrote:
He must have a time machine in his garage. Even, congress bootlickers will be suprised at your new anal-logy of Bajrang dal being the perpetrators.Why was Punjab divided into three states after independence?

Yes the time machine called painful memories. Please do tell who were the rioters? What does the division of Punjab have to do with any of this?

Painful memories can not be classified as a source for your assertion.
By your logic Aziz Burney and the likes of Digivjay Singh, Mahesh Bhatt could be right. 26/11 was indeed RSS ki sazish.

Sumair · Post by **Sumair** » 27 Aug 2019 21:35

RajeevK wrote:
Sumair wrote:
Yes the time machine called painful memories. Please do tell who were the rioters? What does the division of Punjab have to do with any of this?
Painful memories can not be classified as a source for your assertion.
By your logic Aziz Burney and the likes of Digivjay Singh, Mahesh Bhatt could be right. 26/11 was indeed RSS ki sazish.

No sir, those days RSS was no where. Congress was the paragon of Hindu identity. Mind you that this was before the Mandel and appeasement politics.