India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

mappunni · Post by **mappunni** » 23 Sep 2019 11:44

Was there at Howdy Modi event. All the stars are aligning.

Hoping for dramatic change in Indo-US relationship. Just a few hundred protestors and not the thousands the media is stating.

Vidur · Post by **Vidur** » 23 Sep 2019 11:51

vimal wrote:Talk is cheap. Let's see how DTs admin behaves after all this. From what I see DT admin has been pretty hard on all immigrant community especially Indians due to all the visa related restrictions etc. If India still needs leverage from US to control J&K then it's not a good sign.

Indian American visa issues were not the main objective. The main objective was to cancel out the Pak India equivalence and transform it into a US India equivalance. That has been achieved.

Oil diplomacy is an excellent idea.

Karan M makes good points.

Vidur · Post by **Vidur** » 23 Sep 2019 11:57

mappunni wrote:Was there at Howdy Modi event. All the stars are aligning.

Hoping for dramatic change in Indo-US relationship. Just a few hundred protestors and not the thousands the media is stating.

One of your ex members Akshay was at the London events. He will be pleased that Houston went so well. My thanks to him for his work during the event and post event analysis which I am told played some part in India recognising that this was 5th Gen war.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 23 Sep 2019 12:00

mappunni wrote:Was there at Howdy Modi event. All the stars are aligning.

Hoping for dramatic change in Indo-US relationship. Just a few hundred protestors and not the thousands the media is stating.

Yeevil Yindoo lying.

Houston protest eclipses ‘Howdy, Modi!’ rally

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 23 Sep 2019 13:34

What's that striped flag the yahoos are carrying?

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 23 Sep 2019 14:09

Mort Walker wrote: Bottom line as told to me by another BRF member - Trump is good for India, but not good ~~for Indians~~ for selected Indian or ex-Indian immigrants to the US.

Fixed.

What's good for India is good for most Indians.

abhishekm · Post by **abhishekm** » 23 Sep 2019 15:03

Anujan wrote:What's that striped flag the yahoos are carrying?

That's the flag of Pakistan Occupied Residual Kashmir (also known as AJK).

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 23 Sep 2019 15:22

Vidur wrote:
mappunni wrote:Was there at Howdy Modi event. All the stars are aligning.

Hoping for dramatic change in Indo-US relationship. Just a few hundred protestors and not the thousands the media is stating.
One of your ex members Akshay was at the London events. He will be pleased that Houston went so well. My thanks to him for his work during the event and post event analysis which I am told played some part in India recognising that this was 5th Gen war.

akshay kapoor? is he in london...

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 23 Sep 2019 15:37

Anujan wrote:What's that striped flag the yahoos are carrying?

i saw this flag for the first time post august 5 protests. Few interesting things..its a cheap copy of american flag without stars...but has the whitespace filled with the sikh kesri color..quite interesting to including kesri color on flag...

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 23 Sep 2019 16:23

Thread on Ro Khanna, etc. Do read in full.

https://twitter.com/girlyGRRRL/status/1 ... 5435839488

Naomi Allen @girlyGRRRL
Very curious move by one of Bernie's campaign staffers here - praising Pieter Friedrich's hit piece that accuses orgs that support Tulsi of being Hindu fascist. Curious, since the same groups have also supported *his* career.

nits · Post by **nits** » 23 Sep 2019 17:07

The Houston Chronicle published 114 photographs of the Modi-Trump mega show.

Link

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 23 Sep 2019 17:16

Here is one Anti-Modi protest BUT are holding the Indian flag and have Church related message. This is yet another spin on Modi.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 23 Sep 2019 17:17

How is Trump with his embrace of Saudis anti-Islam? Would the Saudis embrace an anti-Islamic?

Then, of course, we see the Saudis not saying much about the Uighurs in China. So it is all about power and money with the entire set. Nothing more, nothing less. Islam pro- or anti-, democracy, human rights, religious freedom, etc., are simply whips to be used in quest for power and money. There is not a shred a principle in the entire lot of them beyond naked self-interest.

In such a world the only thing to look for is pro-India or anti-India and on two time scales - in the short-term and sustainably in the long-term. Too close to Trump may not be good for India with his eventual successor. But short term it may enable India to attain certain objectives. In the shifting sands, there are only ad hoc alliances, nothing permanent.

Will the US power survive a second Trump term? What is India's interest there? I don't claim to know.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 23 Sep 2019 17:17

NRIs need to accept some blame on not being a cohesive force on many issues affecting them. Only time they are cohesive is when it comes to taking an axe to a foot.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 23 Sep 2019 17:25

By the time the next administration, presumably a Democratic one, takes over India will be a $5 Trillion economy AND much more attractive partner on global stage. Add to that some course correction in the medium term and India has nothing to worry unless America get an out and out Islamist and/or Communist beholden to China as the next President.

In the short-term, Modi is making a gamble that Trump will prevail om 2020 and that is the only risk. Even now he has left multiple openings to wriggle out. For starters, he only quoted "candidate" Trump's slogan. It was not an endorsement in any sense. Rest was respect due an American president. Modi will find other ways to get his message across.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 23 Sep 2019 17:28

I have seen very few protest photos but of all the ones I have seen, all seem to be close and tight shots. Usually, a tight shot implies that the numbers were underwhelming and the tight shot was used to fill up the frame.

A high turnout usually invites a wide shot in contrast to a tight shot.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 23 Sep 2019 17:56

Don't worry. Indians have learnt the game. If Bernie Sanders becomes president Modi is going to hug him and say he is his brother lost from Kumbh. Only if the Left-Islamist cabal under Congress comes back will we go back to the past ideology based interactions.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 23 Sep 2019 18:08

Supratik wrote:Don't worry. Indians have learnt the game. If Bernie Sanders becomes president Modi is going to hug him and say he is his brother lost from Kumbh. Only if the Left-Islamist cabal under Congress comes back will we go back to the past ideology based interactions.

May that be so!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Sep 2019 18:45

Sanders is a gift straight from ATM. Now other donkeys will try to out-donkey Sanders in Standing Up For Hyooman Rites In Cash More. And all are just painting targets on their own musharrafs, defining themselves solidly on the side of terrorism. Which is why the message delivered in Texas of all places is so on target: India-US Fighting (*****amic) Terrorism. Common cause for Indian and American soldiers. Wrapped nicely in the Flags.

After the donkey Convention, DT can really tear into them on that aspect - and India has not taken any position about any political party in the US. Maybe one should write to Sen. Sanders complimenting him on condoming yindoos terrism and solidly supporting Bakistan.

We all underestimate the sheer, awesome power of the term:
He is a loyal Friend of Pakistan
in the US context. This must be FIRMLY established in the voters' minds (or what passes for those). Has anyone heard from Dan Burton recently?

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 23 Sep 2019 18:51

Americans are loyal to money and their country's interests only.

komal · Post by **komal** » 23 Sep 2019 19:01

UlanBatori wrote: Has anyone heard from Dan Burton recently?

His protege is VP of the USA.

Najunamar · Post by **Najunamar** » 23 Sep 2019 20:16

Americans are loyal only to money and their country's interests- that's true of any country. What's more interesting is the priority for short term interests and long term interests especially when they don't align. This makes for some seemingly paradoxical decisions (like the support for Pakistan etc.). When there is a shift in priorities or there is a rethink of what are the strategic or long term interests, as is happening now - this is the right time for India to move the agenda in the right dharmic direction.

komal · Post by **komal** » 23 Sep 2019 20:24

For some reason, the Evangelicals (the erstwhile "Moral Majority") hate India, Hinduism, and Hindus. Pat Robertson called us 'demonic' on his TV show.

These people are the mainstay of the GOP and vocal supporters of this Administration.

I beleive these people led the fight to ban Modi's visit to the USA under Bush the Son.

Dan Burton protege, Mike Pence, is card carrying member of the Evangelicals.

The GOP will throw India under a bus in a second if the Evangelicals say so.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 23 Sep 2019 20:42

komal wrote:For some reason, the Evangelicals (the erstwhile "Moral Majority") hate India, Hinduism, and Hindus. Pat Robertson called us 'demonic' on his TV show.

These people are the mainstay of the GOP and vocal supporters of this Administration.

I beleive these people led the fight to ban Modi's visit to the USA under Bush the Son.

Dan Burton protege, Mike Pence, is card carrying member of the Evangelicals.

The GOP will throw India under a bus in a second if the Evangelicals say so.

Old news and you’re living in the past. They’ve already tried and failed in the 90s and early 00s. Bush and Trump have both had majorities in Congress, yet could do nothing.

We need Trump in until Jan. 2025 and by that time India will be a $5T economy. Game over.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Sep 2019 20:44

Guys, unbelievable, but reading the twitter line of shudh English speaking ISI mouthpieces like Mosharaff Zaidi, and our Paki pasnad traitors, they would have you believe that there were large scale protests. My bloody foot.

I was there from start to finish at the venue. And both while going in and coming out, I stopped by see the protests. At best a few 100. And the Houston, TX police honchos, wondering what all this is about in the first place

, made sure that the protesters did not enter the venue. And for me, in a perverse way, it was a KLPD

. Because without being a rif-raf, I wanted to do a "Bharat mata ki Jai", "Kashmir nahi banega Pakistan, Kashmir rahega Hindustan mein" protests of my own in front of them. So following twitter lines of chutiyas gave me a glimpse of how false propaganda and fake news and narratives can be peddled in this day of instant social media.

That said guys, please don't jump all over me, but I was disappointed with 2 things:

1. The Indian American crowd was boisterous with their Modi Modi chants. Nothing wrong with that. After all, ModiJi was the star of the day. But I was disappointed that when Trump was speaking or in general, very few American flags went up. It was mostly Indian flags. I mean this was an event celebrating India US friendship, held in a mega US city, and that too attended by none other than US president hosting Indian PM, and I felt the audience should have acknowledge that with a little more symbolism. I of course didn't have any flag, but did cheer Trump bahadur's batting for India US.

2. A little disappointed that neither Trump nor ModiJi made any big announcements on trade and economy. ModiJI haters like that traitors filth Badrakumar are mocking this is just ModiJi Trump blo-fest

. Also, I felt that both Trump, and to a larger extent ModiJi, were addressing their domestic audience instead of more issues of interest to India US relations. But maybe I am nit picking, I don't know.

3. All in a fantastic 'feel good' event. Atmospherics were great. One small step towards making SDRE Indians more mainstream in US. But long way to go.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 23 Sep 2019 20:45

DT may have made things harder for Indians seeking visas, and that's regrettable, but Indians shouldn't be so intent, enthusiastic or obsessed with obtaining the US visa in the first place! It doesn't show a great deal of maturity or sense, to be leaving the country when your own country is still, even with the slowdown, one of the highest growth economies in the world.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Sep 2019 21:17

komal wrote:For some reason, the Evangelicals (the erstwhile "Moral Majority") hate India, Hinduism, and Hindus. Pat Robertson called us 'demonic' on his TV show.
These people are the mainstay of the GOP and vocal supporters of this Administration.
I beleive these people led the fight to ban Modi's visit to the USA under Bush the Son.
Dan Burton protege, Mike Pence, is card carrying member of the Evangelicals.
The GOP will throw India under a bus in a second if the Evangelicals say so.

(gasp!) I agree with komalji. But what can one do about it other than hand-wringing? Learn from Modi. He deals directly with the Big Papa who can smack down the EJs - as opposed to trying to kiss up to the likes of Sanders, Biden, Warren etc. Those are in the pockets of the EJs, Pakis, Saudis everyone. DT doesn't need any of them as long as real estate prices hold up at Mar Largo and the sea level hasn't risen too much before he converts it into the Trump Marine Resort. He's already giving a good deal for Marines to stay at TrumpResorts...

Pence may be Burton Protege but so far he has been about as effective as a mouse. Probably caused Indiana to go donkey next election too.
As for EJ denying Modi visa, true, but did you watch the event yesterday? Best way to grind the noses of those visa-deniers in the dirt. Achieved what no amount of Demarches and Strong Protests would have come close to having any hope of achieving.

As for MoMa, right now the donkeys are the ones braying about CashMore, against Indian DOO imports, everything that is in India's interests. Come election time, the MoMa will dump them and vote elephant again.

On balance, during the DT era the USCIRS has been taken down several notches, not least because DT is against anything that confers power on COTUS to mess with foreign policy, let alone domestic policy.

Finally (not responding to komalji's post but some other comment):
The tug-of-war underlying US-India Relashuns was clarified by SuSwamy:
US wants Open Market access to Indian consumers' paise, for US snake-oil dealers such as insurance companies, WarMalt, Amazon, Monsanto, the massive Food Exporter industry etc etc. Think GM-fed Obesity Epidemic to reduce Indian population by 50%.

India says: we cannot allow US companies, who get loans at 2%, to come in and compete with Indian SMEs who have to pay 25 to 20% for their loans.

So: India asks US to ensure Open Access for People: India's most lucrative export. SuSwamy says Indian companies should be allowed to bid on, say, US infrastructure projects, employing INDIAN LABOR. Imported. Paying Indian prices and salaries.

***************** Pls chew on that **********************

Does this mean that anything to reduce visa hassles is good for India? NOT NECESSARILY.

Because let's say US tomorrow says: "We are Opening Access for Indians to come and work in the US freely: no limits! Jisko jitna chahiye, kaat-kaat le jayiye!"

This would be utter disaster for the Indian economy, because by quid pro quo, India would have to Open Access to the US scams to come in and do to India what the East India Company did, but now in 1.9 years vs. 190 years.

So: India is unlikely to be unhappy (as a nation!) with the difficulties that the US self-imposes on its own competitiveness. Platitudes notwithstanding.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 23 Sep 2019 21:20

Varoon Shekhar wrote:DT may have made things harder for Indians seeking visas, and that's regrettable, but Indians shouldn't be so intent, enthusiastic or obsessed with obtaining the US visa in the first place! It doesn't show a great deal of maturity or sense, to be leaving the country when your own country is still, even with the slowdown, one of the highest growth economies in the world.

Being over 1.3 billion people, the diaspora will be world wide, and more particularly so when the Indian economy gets bigger as trade will only increase.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 23 Sep 2019 21:29

komal wrote:For some reason, the Evangelicals (the erstwhile "Moral Majority") hate India, Hinduism, and Hindus. Pat Robertson called us 'demonic' on his TV show.

These people are the mainstay of the GOP and vocal supporters of this Administration.

I beleive these people led the fight to ban Modi's visit to the USA under Bush the Son.

Dan Burton protege, Mike Pence, is card carrying member of the Evangelicals.

The GOP will throw India under a bus in a second if the Evangelicals say so.

We should be thinking in terms of who or what India will keep or throw under the bus.

Power of US and Indian mainstream media has eroded--Trump and Modi got elected inspite of their fierce campaign against them.

If India seizes the evangelical bull by the horns, we can imagine the same happening to evangelicals. 1.3 B very assertive, organized and increasingly powerful people with clarity of purpose are increasingly going to be throwers, not throwees.

I believe this is Modi's vision. If I were a force inimical to India, I would dhoti-shiver each time Modi humbly says, "hey it's not about me, it's about the 1.3 B Indians I represent & serve."

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 23 Sep 2019 21:30

"Being over 1.3 billion people, the diaspora will be world wide"

Agree, but many of these Indians have a goal of eventually settling down in the US. And this when India is booming. There is something incongruous about this.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 23 Sep 2019 21:34

Don't worry about it. India should own the world. That means Indians should be able to settle anywhere in the world.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 23 Sep 2019 21:36

Interesting framing of Modi & Trump. I have issues with it, but worth a read.

The Rebel and the King

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Sep 2019 22:16

And if u thought India didn't have POWER:

“The (donkey) leadership doesn’t believe Mueller’s age will be a cause for concern.. He will have as much to do with the Modi investigation as he had to do with the Mueller report,” a highly placed source within the DNC told OpIndia.com on the condition of anonymity. “It doesn’t matter if he can’t get out of his bed you know, he was in bed most of the time during the Mueller investigation as well,” said another highly placed source.

The move was proposed by Bernie Sanders, Democratic Presidential hopeful, we have been told. Sanders also is a huge fan of Kanhaiya Kumar and Shehla Rashid apparently. Sources told us that the Vermont Senator sees Kanhaiya as a younger version of his own with a darker complexion. The primary reason for it, we have been told, is that like Kanhaiya, Bernie has never had to do a single day of hard work or hold a job to make a living.

Personal reasons have contributed a lot towards the gathering support for the move. Alexandria Ocazio Cortez, another radical Democrat who has become a prominent face of the party, is supposedly inspired by Sonia Gandhi. Like the Congress President, Cortez too was a waiter before she rose to prominence. Furthermore, she sees the Saffronization of India as a major hindrance towards her goal to implement a ‘Green New Deal’ across the world.

Nobody knows why Beto O’Rourke is running for the presidency of the United States and no one really believes he has a chance but now OpIndia.com has learnt from reliable sources that he was inspired to run by the exploits of Rahul Gandhi. He told his close aides towards the end of the summer in 2018, “That guy inspires me. People laugh at him so much, they call him stupid and an idiot and yet, that guy seriously believe he could be the Prime Minister of India one day. I wish I were more like him.”

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Sep 2019 22:21

Santosh wrote:Today's event was an ultimate power projection by Modi as a resurgent India seeks to get in the driver's seat in India-US relationship. I think pieces of puzzle are aligning. Huawei has been shown the door by both Jio and Bharti and they have tied up with Samsung and Ericson/Nokia respectively. Both Trump and Modi have spoken decisively against Islamic terrorism followed by Modi's call for standing ovation for Trump. Today's event may have been a subtle way of telling Trump to play nice with Indian American community and that he has the power to sway their votes towards him.

Take a bow unknown BRF warrior.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Sep 2019 22:28

Supratik wrote:Don't worry. Indians have learnt the game. If Bernie Sanders becomes president Modi is going to hug him and say he is his brother lost from Kumbh. Only if the Left-Islamist cabal under Congress comes back will we go back to the past ideology based interactions.

Exactly. Sahi Pakde Aap.
Bilku sach vachan.
GOI has learnt to differentiate personality politics.

Its a shot across the bows to the Left-Islamist cabal in US too.
You mess in India, they will mess in US too.
Reciprocal tit-for-tat.
'Evolution of Cooperation' Ackerman strategy.
Repeated Prisoner's Dilemma.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Sep 2019 22:29

KLNM, The Evangelical bull will become ombod.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 23 Sep 2019 22:44

UlanBatori wrote:And if u thought India didn't have POWER:

Just in case anybody mistakes this for real news, this is SATIRE.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 23 Sep 2019 23:31

vimal wrote:I'm surprised at the ignorance of some of the forum members on how this US admin is treating immigrants including Indians in general. Life has become really hard after DT came to power and will get worse if he gets re-elected. I provide some data points below and let you decide if DT is really a friend of India/Indians.

It's worth providing a complete picture of both positive and negative changes here. There's clearly been a lot of high profile negative actions - not targeting Indians specifically, but impacting them possibly the most, because they consist of the largest share of those coming in via the employment/skills based route.

It's true both from a factual and anecdotal perspective that work visa applications are much harder now. For everyone. At my workplace we've had multiple people impacted as a result of it - the Indian less so than a Chinese and a Brit, actually. Maintaining holding pattern in Canada, or simply moving there or to a European office, has become more common.

Conversely, Indian citizens are now a member of Global Entry. This is a targeted action, specifically according status to one country, as opposed to visa measures that play on nativist job loss talk, which isn't country specific.

Historically, visa overstay rates by Indians have remained chronically high. This impacts everyone who otherwise could benefit from a move to the VWP/ESTA program with sustained low overstay rates. And yet, India made the trusted traveler program despite this, which indicates an interest on the US part to offer targeted benefit to India. Besides India, the only countries whose citizens (without being green card holders) can use Global Entry are Argentina, Colombia, Germany, Mexico, the Netherlands, Panama, the Republic of Korea, Singapore, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom.

Yes GE is just one thing, and visa/GC renewal delays are a bunch of different things. However, it's also the case that the application delays are a one time thing, while those traveling frequently through major hubs benefit from potentially an hour or two saved waiting in line. This is despite the fact that India has lagged most of the world in issuing biometric e-passports.

So is an administration that generally makes some immigration processes harder - thereby affecting a particular community with a lot of new immigration, but also makes that particular country alone a beneficiary of its trusted traveler program - for or against ?

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 23 Sep 2019 23:47

I guess this was to be expected...

"Can Be Good Arbitrator On Kashmir": Trump In Meeting With Imran Khan

NEW YORK: US President Donald Trump renewed his offer of arbitration between India and Pakistan today at a meeting with Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan. At start of meeting with Mr Khan, President Trump said if both Khan and PM Modi of India want him to mediate an agreement between them over Kashmir, he's willing.

Asked if he would be ready to arbitrate, Mr Trump said, "I am ready, willing and able. It's a complex issue. It's being going on for a long time. But if both (Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Imran Khan) want it, I will be ready to do it."

"I think I'd be an extremely good arbitrator," he added.

Asked if agreed with India's stand that Pakistan is base for terrorists, President Trump said, "I have been pointing much more to Iran."

Tagging PM Modi's comments on Pakistan at Houston yesterday as "very aggressive", Mr Trump however, said it was "well received".

Expect all the BIF in India & outside to use the above as a negation to Houston's success.

nam · Post by **nam** » 23 Sep 2019 23:56

In terms of US tightening up rules, would we support a easier PR process in India for say Bangladeshi citizens or any other citizens? We in fact have a no OCI rule for Bangladeshi citizen!

US has the right to decide who lives in it's country, just like india does. It may effect people from India, who like to settle there, but then the sole purpose of a relation with US cannot be to settle Indian citizens there!

We benefit more from US allowing liberal export policies for Indian produced goods, than exporting people!