https://twitter.com/DrGPradhan/status/1 ... 67330?s=19kit wrote:link disappeared ?
Its alive
Such MBA type thinking was actually used by the allies to win WW II. It spawned a whole new subject of engineering, called 'operations research'. It failed in the Vietnam war, because it failed to account for other things that won wars - public morale, information/propaganda, exit strategies etc.darshhan wrote:Such MBA style thinking almost never works in actual warfare.sudeepj wrote:
When you have one AAM costing about a million dollars, a three million dollar missile that with a 600km range may actually be cost effective for the initial stages of the conflict.
...
Total life time cost over 25 years = ( $100 million + 25 x $3 million ) = $175 million to deliver 50 Brahmos equivalent strikes.
Cost for 50 Brahmos missiles over 25 years may be a comparable number.
So at least for initial phases of a war when air space may be contested, Brahmos may be a better solution than JDAM type weapons from fighter planes. In later stages, fighter planes may be better.
oksudeepj wrote:Such MBA type thinking was actually used by the allies to win WW II. It spawned a whole new subject of engineering, called 'operations research'. It failed in the Vietnam war, because it failed to account for other things that won wars - public morale, information/propaganda, exit strategies etc.darshhan wrote:
Such MBA style thinking almost never works in actual warfare.
Iyersan,
NEW DELHI: Indian infantry soldiers now finally have a new weapon to destroy advancing enemy tanks on the western front with Pakistan. The Army has begun to induct a limited number of Israeli Spike anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) to meet immediate operational requirements till the indigenous man-portable “tank killers” being developed by DRDO are ready for induction.
Sources on Thursday said the “first lot” of the 210 Spike missiles, with a dozen launchers, “arrived in India about 10 days ago” as part of the “Army vice chief’s emergency procurement powers” exercised by the force amidst the ongoing heightened tensions with Pakistan.
The Army moved to buy the initial amount of the fire-and-forget Spike ATGMs, which have a strike range of up to 4-km, for around Rs 280 crore after the Jaish-e-Muhammed training facility at Balakot in Pakistan was bombed by Indian Mirage-2000 fighters on February 26.
“The order will be repeated if the man-portable ATGM being developed by DRDO is not ready by next year. We don’t want to be slowed down any longer in plugging our critical operational deficiencies by DRDO,” said an Army source.
DRDO, however, is quite confident about offering its MP-ATGM for “user trials” in 2020 after having conducted three successful trials of the weapon system at the Kurnool range in Andhra Pradesh in early last month.
“The third-generation MP-ATGM, which has state-of-the-art infrared imaging seekers along with advanced avionics, hit the targets mimicking operational tanks in top-attack mode to destroy them with precision at 2.5 km range,” said a DRDO official.
Whether it’s indigenous or Israeli man-portable “tank killers”, the fact remains the 13-lakh strong Army has an alarming over 50% shortage in its “authorised holding” of different kinds of shoulder, vehicle and helicopter-launched ATGMs, which are crucial to halt advancing enemy tanks in the plains as well as “bunker-bursting” across the volatile line of control with Pakistan.
The Army’s existing second-generation Milan-2T (2-km range) and Konkurs (4-km) ATGMs, produced by defence PSU Bharat Dynamics under licence from French and Russian companies, do not have night-fighting capabilities.
The Army for well over a decade has been clamouring to upgrade from these wire-guided ATGMs to third and fourth-generation ones that are top-attack, fire-and-forget and night-capable. In late 2017, India had scrapped a proposed Rs 3,200 crore deal for 8,356 Spike missiles, 321 launchers and 15 simulators that had been first approved by the Defence Acquisitions Council in June 2009.
This was primarily because the DRDO said it could deliver a more technologically advanced MP-ATGM in the next two-three years, as was then reported by TOI. The Army is now keeping its fingers crossed, keen as it is on equipping all its over 380 infantry battalions and 44 mechanised infantry units with third and fourth-generation ATGMs in the long run.
Very newsy 1st press conf by new @IAF_MCC Chief:
1. No foreign 5th gen fighter for IAF, only AMCA
2. Addl 36 Rafales not in IAF procurement plan
3. ASRAAM only for Jaguar, no decision yet to standardise across all fighters
4. Fresh Refueller RFI soon
https://t.co/zq5Qsh3Y2M https://t.co/S7eLfdwHKm
Prem Kumar wrote:And btw, for all the conspiracy theorists, including Gaurav Pradhan on Teetar, the Pokhran blasts were nothing but old ordnances being blown up
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/25120 ... with_IndiaVinodTK wrote:Army inducts Israeli 'tank killers’ till DRDO develops indigenous ones
...... to meet immediate operational requirements the “first lot” of the 210 Spike missiles, with a dozen launchers, “arrived in India about 10 days ago” as part of the “Army vice chief’s emergency procurement powers” ......
“The order will be repeated if the man-portable ATGM being developed by DRDO is not ready by next year. We don’t want to be slowed down any longer ....
Was also discussed here: viewtopic.php?t=7675&start=1280#p2362870 including pertinent fact that the big Spike was killed but the emergency Spike stayed (presumably this one)According to the media, the sensors of the Spike ATGM could not identify the target when the army was testing the missile at Pokhran, Rajasthan state.
"The missile failed in multiple areas during summer trials. Sensors failed to detect the target during trials carried out in Pokhran," a source familiar with the development said.
From news sources spike only failed the desert trails where its uncooled seeker did not do a good job in thar afternoon heat. The low number of missiles suggest that this procurement was for SF for LOC deployment. So seeker should not be problem there.sudeepj wrote:The problem with spike is, it has failed multiple times and in many conditions. A small procurement of Javelin would have made much more sense.. Alternatively, an emergency procurement of Nag which has seen many successes.
And NAG was failing in hot deserts only all these years. And nobody gave any concession.VikramA wrote:From news sources spike only failed the desert trails where its uncooled seeker did not do a good job in thar afternoon heat. The low number of missiles suggest that this procurement was for SF for LOC deployment. So seeker should not be problem there.sudeepj wrote:The problem with spike is, it has failed multiple times and in many conditions. A small procurement of Javelin would have made much more sense.. Alternatively, an emergency procurement of Nag which has seen many successes.
That might be true but NAG in its current form is not a replacement for the Spike procurement.Raghunathgb wrote:And NAG was failing in hot deserts only all these years. And nobody gave any concession.VikramA wrote:
From news sources spike only failed the desert trails where its uncooled seeker did not do a good job in thar afternoon heat. The low number of missiles suggest that this procurement was for SF for LOC deployment. So seeker should not be problem there.
Quite right, this is a matter of needs and wants in terms of operational capability NOW. If the forces have and anticipate ( its their job) a requirement that cannot be serviced by local industry they are mandated to procure a similar or a tested and trialled one that suits at least some percentage of their quality requirements., i think its best to leave it there.pankajs wrote:That might be true but NAG in its current form is not a replacement for the Spike procurement.Raghunathgb wrote:
And NAG was failing in hot deserts only all these years. And nobody gave any concession.
IF goi is to be believed the Spike procurement is limited keeping in view the Indian development in the space. What happens in future will depend on how that development goes.
Wait - What ? In one sortie - all these stores ?? Thats extremely impressive. Although i am not sure why you would require six 250 KG bombs, when you are planning to fire a stand off missile.Raghunathgb wrote:The modified Sukhois will have the capability to carry only one BrahMos at a time as part of a weapons configuration which also includes four RVV AE (R-77) air-to-air medium range missiles, two R-73 air-to-air short range missiles and six 250 kg bombs.
Strike platforms engaged in offensive counter-air, defense busting ops carry a mix of Precision weapons & area weapons.naird wrote:Wait - What ? In one sortie - all these stores ?? Thats extremely impressive. Although i am not sure why you would require six 250 KG bombs, when you are planning to fire a stand off missile.Raghunathgb wrote:The modified Sukhois will have the capability to carry only one BrahMos at a time as part of a weapons configuration which also includes four RVV AE (R-77) air-to-air medium range missiles, two R-73 air-to-air short range missiles and six 250 kg bombs.
Karan M wrote:Strike platforms engaged in offensive counter-air, defense busting ops carry a mix of Precision weapons & area weapons.naird wrote:
Wait - What ? In one sortie - all these stores ?? Thats extremely impressive. Although i am not sure why you would require six 250 KG bombs, when you are planning to fire a stand off missile.
That mix will make it's way in the future.srai wrote:^^^
Stand-off 100km SAAW (2-4 x quad packs) would be a better option
Su-30MKI DEAD operations (stand-off)Destruction of the radars (using NGARM) along with SAM launchers and support vehicles (using SAAW).
- 4 x NGARM 100km+
- 4 x SAAW quad-pack (16 SAAWs) 100km