Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 27 Sep 2019 02:33

Vivek, 1965 and 1971 wars are more than 54 and 48 years old respectively. A lot has changed since then.

Today, with Integrated Battle Groups....it will not be a slug fest. Expect outcomes in 72 - 96 hours.

The aim is to erode or severely damage Pakistan's offensive military capabilities.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 27 Sep 2019 03:18

I guess the 10 days announced in this news item can also be used as psy-ops to demoralize/intimidate the enemy.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 27 Sep 2019 13:22

Vivek ji,
The previous wars were fought without any nuclear overtones between the combatants, not considering Kargil as a war since it was not an all out war across the entire front with Pakistan.

Given that we now have over nuclear capabilities and just as our potential adversaries do, it would be very a sharp and swift war that would be fought before the nuclear threshold is crossed. Given this scenario, I think 10 days is a long time.

In any case, if memory serves right, we do also maintain a war wastage reserve for 30 days as well.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 27 Sep 2019 14:09

if the ballon goes up the 10 days stock will finish by 4th or 5th day !! i dont think any red lines will be crossed. U have to remember that Pakistan will not use the N bum for losses in kashmir. only if it feels its mailand is getting cut into half is their a possibility. The whole IBG concept was to make only fast and shallow ingress into mainland Pakistan as compared to the salami slicing role envisaged forthe armour heavy strike corps aka cold start. the IBG can get to work quickly and make shallow gains before inevitable intl presure / intervention comes in.

nam · Post by **nam** » 27 Sep 2019 14:33

The amount of ammo used in Bangladesh campaign(not west), was LESS than IA annual's training ammo spend!

If we have filled up 10 days ammo, then we have more than enough ammo to fight the Pak. It is okay for propaganda purpose to keep repeating this, however let's not believe it ourself.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 28 Sep 2019 16:05

This 10 day reserve is actually 10 days (intense war) reserve. I don't remember the exact ratio but I remember reading that 10(I) days is equal to some 30 days of prolonged fighting. Earlier, we had just one number - 30 (I) days or something. But when IA went about re-filling the empty ammo dumps, it came up with 10 (I) scenario, and then progress to 30 (I) scenario or something like that.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 30 Sep 2019 10:49

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 366725.cms

It’s no longer going to be hide and seek, if we have to go across LoC, we will: General Bipin Rawat

The JeM facility in Balakot has been reactivated. Intelligence assessments say there are 250, 300 or 500 terrorists waiting to infiltrate into India. If so, what did the Balakot air strikes in February, or the surgical strikes in September 2016 achieve?
The strikes have delivered the message that the Line of Control (LoC) will remain sacrosanct as long as the other side remains quiet and does not vitiate the atmosphere. Pakistan controls the terrorists, who act as its proxies. It’s no longer going to be hide and seek. If we have to go across, we will, through the air or the ground route or both. The red line has been very clearly drawn as to what will be the future course of action.
...

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 30 Sep 2019 14:29

gen bipin reminds me of paddy..only thing is paddy had infinite fury in his eyes too...

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 01 Oct 2019 20:39

https://twitter.com/zeerajasthan_/statu ... 57792?s=19
There has been a major test at Pokhran
Any ideas

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Oct 2019 01:42

https://twitter.com/majorgauravarya/sta ... 1832452096 ---> For last four days, I was with these guys at 12,500 feet ASL on the Line of Control in Kashmir. They are wearing a ghillie suit & holding a 7.62mm Dragunov sniper rifle. Serving in the Assam Regiment, they are Nagas from the Konyak tribe. Their forefathers were head hunters.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 02 Oct 2019 05:16

Isnt that too much information(Height) to reveal?

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 04 Oct 2019 06:32

Cross posting from Missiles thread

Army inducts Israeli 'tank killers’ till DRDO develops indigenous ones

NEW DELHI: Indian infantry soldiers now finally have a new weapon to destroy advancing enemy tanks on the western front with Pakistan. The Army has begun to induct a limited number of Israeli Spike anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) to meet immediate operational requirements till the indigenous man-portable “tank killers” being developed by DRDO are ready for induction.

Sources on Thursday said the “first lot” of the 210 Spike missiles, with a dozen launchers, “arrived in India about 10 days ago” as part of the “Army vice chief’s emergency procurement powers” exercised by the force amidst the ongoing heightened tensions with Pakistan.

The Army moved to buy the initial amount of the fire-and-forget Spike ATGMs, which have a strike range of up to 4-km, for around Rs 280 crore after the Jaish-e-Muhammed training facility at Balakot in Pakistan was bombed by Indian Mirage-2000 fighters on February 26.

“The order will be repeated if the man-portable ATGM being developed by DRDO is not ready by next year. We don’t want to be slowed down any longer in plugging our critical operational deficiencies by DRDO,” said an Army source.

DRDO, however, is quite confident about offering its MP-ATGM for “user trials” in 2020 after having conducted three successful trials of the weapon system at the Kurnool range in Andhra Pradesh in early last month.

“The third-generation MP-ATGM, which has state-of-the-art infrared imaging seekers along with advanced avionics, hit the targets mimicking operational tanks in top-attack mode to destroy them with precision at 2.5 km range,” said a DRDO official.

Whether it’s indigenous or Israeli man-portable “tank killers”, the fact remains the 13-lakh strong Army has an alarming over 50% shortage in its “authorised holding” of different kinds of shoulder, vehicle and helicopter-launched ATGMs, which are crucial to halt advancing enemy tanks in the plains as well as “bunker-bursting” across the volatile line of control with Pakistan.

The Army’s existing second-generation Milan-2T (2-km range) and Konkurs (4-km) ATGMs, produced by defence PSU Bharat Dynamics under licence from French and Russian companies, do not have night-fighting capabilities.

The Army for well over a decade has been clamouring to upgrade from these wire-guided ATGMs to third and fourth-generation ones that are top-attack, fire-and-forget and night-capable. In late 2017, India had scrapped a proposed Rs 3,200 crore deal for 8,356 Spike missiles, 321 launchers and 15 simulators that had been first approved by the Defence Acquisitions Council in June 2009.

This was primarily because the DRDO said it could deliver a more technologically advanced MP-ATGM in the next two-three years, as was then reported by TOI. The Army is now keeping its fingers crossed, keen as it is on equipping all its over 380 infantry battalions and 44 mechanised infantry units with third and fourth-generation ATGMs in the long run.

salaam · Post by **salaam** » 04 Oct 2019 08:27

Iyersan wrote:https://twitter.com/zeerajasthan_/statu ... 57792?s=19
There has been a major test at Pokhran
Any ideas

With onions being expensive again, we can guess

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 04 Oct 2019 10:02

Rajat Pandit, lying & running down our indigenous program again. DRDO's MANPATGM is not "delayed". In fact, from program start, its progress has been remarkably quick! God-willing, it will be in user trials next year.

His "army source" is his Muharraf.

He is also lying about the Spike MANPATGM range. Its 2.5 Km, not 4 Km. The longer ranged Spike variants are tripod, vehicle or heli mounted.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 04 Oct 2019 10:04

And btw, for all the conspiracy theorists, including Gaurav Pradhan on Teetar, the Pokhran blasts were nothing but old ordnances being blown up

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 04 Oct 2019 15:54

Prem Kumar wrote:Rajat Pandit, lying & running down our indigenous program again. DRDO's MANPATGM is not "delayed". In fact, from program start, its progress has been remarkably quick! God-willing, it will be in user trials next year.

His "army source" is his Muharraf.

He is also lying about the Spike MANPATGM range. Its 2.5 Km, not 4 Km. The longer ranged Spike variants are tripod, vehicle or heli mounted.

I have been keeping an eye on journos like this. This fellow hardly writes any articles, maybe once a blue moon. Looks near impossible to make a living from journalism alone.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 04 Oct 2019 16:00

http://idrw.org/armys-biggest-mountain- ... l-pradesh/
not sure where to place it...but seeing this exercise only for

Indian Army undergoing its biggest transformation has started its biggest mountain assault exercise.“Exercise ‘Him Vijay’ has begun. As it is in phases the first important phase will be from 7 -10 October and the other phase will be from 20- 24 October.” told a senior officer on the condition of anonymity. The exercise is to test mobility, communication and coordination of such huge body of fast-moving troops in difficult terrain. Indian Army is metamorphosing itself to incorporate changes for modern and quick and short war, added the Army officer. Three Battle Groups, each comprising around 4000 soldiers, are participating which will include troop mobilisation, mountain assault and air assault. Elements of special forces will also be part of it. Air force and Army helicopters will be transferring troops and equipment at the terrain of upto 15,000 ft. Clearing the doubts on the timing and location pertaining to the exercise the officer said it is as per a set calendar, operational changes and is deeper inside Indian territory. “The exercise is being done more than 100 kilometres inside the Indian Territory from the Line of Actual Control. It has been positioned with the annual ‘Op Alert’ which the Army’s 3 Corps (Tezpur) and 4 Corps (Rangapahar) carry.” The protocol requires, ‘If either side conducts a military exercise involving more than one Brigade Group (approximately 5,000 troops) in close proximity to the Line of Actual Control, it shall not be targeted against the other side. The side undertaking the exercise shall give, through Flag Meetings, the other side prior intimation 15 days in advance of the exercise with regard to type, level, planned duration and area of exercise as well as the number and type of units or formations participating in the exercise.’ The sensitivities arose as Chinese President Xi Jinping will be in India from October 11-13 for the second informal bilateral meeting with the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in Chennai. “It is an important exercise for validation of the operational concepts of the newly raised Integrated Battle Groups (IBGs) to meet the requirements of modern warfare keeping the military progress of the enemy threats in mind.” It was in late 2018 that Army, after a major study and discussions, decided to re-configure certain fighting formations of the Army. Integrated Battle Groups both on the Western and Northern borders have been created for quicker and formidable launch of attack on enemy. The IBGs will be a body of about 5-6 Units but their configuration will depend on the operational terrain and aim Indian forces want to achieve. The Combat Arms like the Infantry, Armoured, Artillery and Mechanised Infantry will be at one place to train together. Depending on mountain, desert or plains the combat support units of the engineers, signals, ordinance and supply will be integrated. There will be Integrated Infantry Battle Groups, Integrated Armoured Battle Groups and Integrated Artillery Battle Groups. India and China share a boundary (Line of Actual Control- LAC) of 3488 kilometres of which 1126 kilometres lie between Arunachal Pradesh and Tibet. There are differences regarding the perception of Line of Actual Control Bonhomie between India and China has risen due to improvements into relationship and CBMs on grounds. Exercise ‘Him Vijay’ is taking place in Arunachal Pradesh.

1. pardon use of idrw item
2. In last three years we have conducted major exercises, which involved large scale mobilizations (not full list on top of my mind)
air: Livewire and gaganshaktri (with front shifting and sea attacks)
land: no. of exercises validating IBG concept, and quick bit grabs in desert area, this exercise for mountain offensive
amphibious: for landing in andaman
Sea: dont remember the names but there were massive exercises/ mobilizations around the time of Pulwama
knife seems to be sharpened for the jhatka..
ist it BAU am I reading too much into this

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 04 Oct 2019 16:06

Thakur_B wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:Rajat Pandit, lying & running down our indigenous program again. DRDO's MANPATGM is not "delayed". In fact, from program start, its progress has been remarkably quick! God-willing, it will be in user trials next year.

His "army source" is his Muharraf.

He is also lying about the Spike MANPATGM range. Its 2.5 Km, not 4 Km. The longer ranged Spike variants are tripod, vehicle or heli mounted.
I have been keeping an eye on journos like this. This fellow hardly writes any articles, maybe once a blue moon. Looks near impossible to make a living from journalism alone.

You would be surprised how many actually do! If you are a full time employee with any of the established media house (meaning the ones that make money and have acquired a reputation as covering exotic fields such as atomic energy, space or defence, you can coast along for a long time and on a fat salary too.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 04 Oct 2019 16:27

OT but what justifies their salary?

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 09 Oct 2019 16:53

With ‘Him Vijay’ & Mountain Strike Corps, India can alter the way China border is managed

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 10 Oct 2019 19:30

(Interesting that all the names have been blurred)

https://twitter.com/NorthernComd_IA/sta ... 32128?s=19

#LtGenYKJoshi handed over the command of #FireAndFuryCorps today to #LtGenHarinderSingh. The incumbent General Officer exhorted all ranks to continue to discharge their duties with same commitment & zeal and be prepared to deal with any threat to National security.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 10 Oct 2019 21:07

as though the pakis dont know the names of the previous GOC 's?!!!!!

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 14 Oct 2019 07:17

Rifles to tanks, Army working on real-time database of equipment.

From rifles to tanks, the Army is looking at setting up a real-time database on the condition and status of each of its approximately 30 lakh pieces of equipment.

Launched by the Army’s Corps of Electronics and Mechanical Engineers (EME) on September 1, Project Beehive, which seeks to achieve greater automation of the Corps and connect all its workshops to an integrated smart network with real-time data analytics capabilities, is expected to be up and running by October next year.

“The next five years will be hugely transformative for the Indian Army to become a network-centric force,” Lieutenant General Anil Kapoor, DG, EME, said during an interaction last week. “By October 15 (EME Corps Day) next year, we should have the Beehive up and running,” he said.

“The centralised network would allow us to access data about any equipment we have across the country in real-time, and it would also have the capability to analyse that data and say which equipment is due for maintenance, so it will allow data mining,” he said.

He explained that with Project Beehive, the EME is building the “business intelligence” of the Army’s equipment, with a “depth of 30 lakh” and a “range of 2,000 types” — 30 lakh pieces of equipment across 2,000 categories.

The project will be based out of Army Headquarters. “At various levels, the functionaries will be able to see all equipment readiness,” said Kapoor. It will also help in “engineering support functions”, he said.

The project has been divided into eight modules, of which the first module is ready and the second is under preparation, Army sources said. The project is “moving bottom up” from the level of field workshops, the sources said.

About two years ago, a project called Workshop Honeybees or WASPs, which involves nearly 200 automated workshops at the ground level, was launched. “Automation of the Corps will give us a lot of advantage. Currently, under WASP, workshops have been automated. And, as part of Project Beehive, these WASPs or workshops would then sit on a centralised ‘beehive’ — a massive integrated network in Delhi, from which we would draw honey (data),” said Kapoor.

But collecting the data is just the first step. “With Project Beehive, the data collected will lead to predictive analytics,” said Kapoor. Once the “business intelligence” on the equipment is ready, he said, the EME will work towards using seek-and-respond Artificial Intelligence (AI) for its predictive analytics.

There are many EME officers who are pursuing their Masters’ degree in various engineering institutes across the country, including at the Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs), Kapoor said, adding that some of these officers were working on the project along with “handpicked coders” from the Union Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology to build the platform.

Emphasising the sensitive nature of the assignment, he said this was why “only officers are involved and the EME did not want to involve any vendors”.

The Corps of EME is responsible for repair of military equipment and maintenance of their operational fitness.

In March last year, the Army had informed a parliamentary committee that 68 per cent of its equipment was of vintage era.

wig · Post by **wig** » 14 Oct 2019 10:17

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... yag2K.html
Army increases troops at LoC to fend off infiltration

Northern Army commander Lieutenant General Ranbir Singh said anger over scrapping Article 370 was subsiding in the Kashmir valley but Pakistan was trying its best to reinvigorate the terror machinery.
excerpts

While the Northern Army commander did not reveal details of the redeployment citing operational reasons, two officers familiar with the development said troop numbers along the LoC were up by a few thousand. General Singh is in Delhi to attend a biannual meeting of the army’s top commanders who will discuss a raft of important issues including the one on Kashmir over the next five days.

wig · Post by **wig** » 14 Oct 2019 10:35

Bengaluru Firm Makes India's First Indigenous Sniper Rifles
SSS Defence is hoping to lead the way for India to become a arms manufacturing and exporting hub.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/in-a-fi ... es-2116296

excerpts

Explaining the working of the weapons, CEO Vivek Krishnan said: "We have developed high-end sniper rifles calibered 7.62x51 mm and .338 Lapua Magnum platforms. Each rifle uses a barreled action that is inspected, gauged, hand-worked and accurized. The barrel length options range from 20 inches to 24 inches, based on the mission criteria and use environments."

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 14 Oct 2019 14:01

^^
The lapua Magnum is from a Finnish company. Wonder if there is some real RnD or just assembly.

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 14 Oct 2019 23:46

kvraghav wrote:^^
The lapua Magnum is from a Finnish company. Wonder if there is some real RnD or just assembly.

you are confusing rounds / cartridges with guns.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 15 Oct 2019 06:25

MeshaVishwas wrote:(Interesting that all the names have been blurred)

https://twitter.com/NorthernComd_IA/sta ... 32128?s=19

#LtGenYKJoshi handed over the command of #FireAndFuryCorps today to #LtGenHarinderSingh. The incumbent General Officer exhorted all ranks to continue to discharge their duties with same commitment & zeal and be prepared to deal with any threat to National security.

manjgu wrote:as though the pakis dont know the names of the previous GOC 's?!!!!!

All they need to do is pull up the picture from the last GoC transition.

https://theprint.in/defence/new-appoint ... ps/110370/

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 15 Oct 2019 12:59

An armed forces family. Amazing role models

Pune couple helps install oxygen generation plant for soldiers in Siachen

A couple in Pune, Yogesh and Sumedha Chithade, have successfully raised enough funds to install an oxygen generation plant to help the soldiers at Siachen.

The endeavour began when the Chithade family came to know that the Indian Army needed an oxygen generation plant. Yogesh Chithade came to know about this requirement from Hon Captain Bana Singh PVC param vir chakra. So, the Chithade family decided to contribute towards the Arm forces. On April 24, 2018, the couple decided to raise money in order to install an oxygen generation plant at around 11,000 meters height.

Yogesh Chithade is a former Air Force person and Sumedha Chithade is a school teacher. The couple went on a journey of almost 18 months wherein they travelled to every nook and corner of Maharashtra, convincing people and setting up example for young generation as well as elderly people to promote Indian Army as a career. Yogesh Chithade's only son is a Major in the Indian army.

The Chithade family was even ready to take a loan on their name if they would not have got sufficient amount for this project.

The Oxygen generation plant was installed and inaugurated at the hands of Lt Gen YK Joshi on October 4 at Siachen.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 16 Oct 2019 11:57

^^^Doctor sahab is ex - Special Group!

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 16 Oct 2019 19:09

^^shouldnt goi/mod/ia be providing this facility. I am all for such great job by men, but in the end it is the responsibility of the government...would it be possible to provide more details on this RV?

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Oct 2019 05:58

^^ Agree 400%

wig · Post by **wig** » 18 Oct 2019 09:33

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 48590.html
Army restructuring put ‘on hold’
Would have meant merger of important directorates, slashing officer strength in Delhi
extracts

Called the Government Sanction Letter (GSL), the first two parts were issued on August 21. The remaining parts, that were to actually carry out the process and lay down terms for merger and creation of posts, have been held back, say sources.

It has been decided that restructuring in totality will commence only after government sanction for full proposals, which entail restructuring at the top and re-distribution of work. This could require sanction from the Cabinet Committee on Security, indicate the sources. The officers, who are to be weaned off the headquarters, were to be sent to field formations. At present, there are an estimated 950 to 1,000 officers posted at the headquarters in Delhi. Among the pending parts of the GSL are instructions on merger of directorates.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 18 Oct 2019 20:58

^^ This is what the forum has been demanding for eons. A wind of change may be on the horizon.

nam · Post by **nam** » 18 Oct 2019 21:55

Waiting for the best doesn’t work, we will take what you produce, Vice Chief of Army assures industry
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 651341.cms

Referring to a long standing dilemma for the domestic defence development ecosystem, Lt Gen MM Naravane said that `best’ cannot be the enemy of the `good’ and unless systems are inducted and used in the field, they cannot be improved and developed to global standards.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 18 Oct 2019 21:58

What a refreshing change in attitude

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 18 Oct 2019 22:20

Thakur_B wrote:

^^ This is what the forum has been demanding for eons. A wind of change may be on the horizon.

The image of the 'catapult' type platform looks interesting in that the 'roof' looks like its armored and not just a piece of Canvas. A direct hit will still take it out, but it looks like this roof will offer some protection from Shrapnel. Better than nothing.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 18 Oct 2019 22:42

nam wrote:
Referring to a long standing dilemma for the domestic defence development ecosystem, Lt Gen MM Naravane said that `best’ cannot be the enemy of the `good’ and unless systems are inducted and used in the field, they cannot be improved and developed to global standards.

Language straight out of BRF!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 18 Oct 2019 23:38

Lt Gen MM Naravane is in running to be the next chief. If he does, it will be awesome because all the three service chiefs - Admiral Singh, Air Chief Marshal Bhaduria and Lt Gen Naravane - are all publicly pushing for local products. The winds are certainly moving in the right direction!

Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhaduria said no more imports after the 114 MRCA contest. That gave so much takleef to the dalals, that asinine topics on thermoclines started popping up.

Lt Gen MM Naravane - As explained by him above. Best cannot be the enemy of Good. Cybaru, if you are reading this....

Admiral Karambir Singh - It is the Navy. The service that walks the talk.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 18 Oct 2019 23:43

Rakesh wrote:Lt Gen MM Naravane is in running to be the next chief. If he does, it will be awesome because all the three service chiefs - Admiral Singh, Air Chief Marshal Bhaduria and Lt Gen Naravane - are all publicly pushing for local products. The winds are certainly moving in the right direction!

He is next in line by seniority. So barring Govt. intervention, he should become the next COAS on Jan 1 2020.