India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 18 Oct 2019 07:09

https://twitter.com/anandmahindra/statu ... 0559961090

This one from the late 60’s is a stark reminder of segregation in the U.S. Not that long ago

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 22 Oct 2019 21:36

Have fun and try not to blow a vein - Featuring among others, our fav angana chatterjee
https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/hearin ... CB7DA17EC1

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Oct 2019 22:03

Please try to post the pictures of the Anglosphere high and mighty paying tribute to Samrat Chakravarti of Bharat.

They have come to seek sharan.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Oct 2019 22:36

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Oct 2019 22:41

Is there a caption to go along with the picture!

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 22 Oct 2019 23:00

Prasad wrote:Have fun and try not to blow a vein - Featuring among others, our fav angana chatterjee
https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/hearin ... CB7DA17EC1

From Seema Sirohi

Hearing in Human rights in South Asia has begun: @PramilaJayapal is attending tho not a member. As are two other members. Focus thus far on Kashmir and Assam.

So the attack begins. @IlhanMN calls Modi govt as a Hindu majoritarian project! Her questions appear motivated. Calling for self determination for Kashmiri people. (Who briefed her. One guess). That @IlhanMN is playing to the gallery is obvious. People clapping.

@jayapal raises question of detentions. And expresses deep concern about children being detained. Also says Indian democracy is alive and well. High courts are taking GOI to task.

Amb Alice Wells reminds eager House members of valuable context : Pakistan’s role in fomenting terrorism in India. In Kashmir. Shutting them down will increase prospects for talks. @State_SCA

Brilliant put down by Amb. Alice Wells of Congressman Brown who was overbearing in asking about how US was leveraging its power to change Indian policy. Wells said : The relationship with India is not a relationship of dictation. It’s a partnership.

Alice Wells says she advocated for Senator Van Hollen to travel to Kashmir. GOI said this is not the right time. Also explains the security dimension. She says it’s a complex situation. But uncomfortable with the trade off.

Alice Wells shines. Confident of her material and won’t be intimidated by a loud man just because he is a member of Congress. @State_SCA

Alice Wells: We were not notified or consulted (on revocation of Article 370) #Kashmir

Alice Wells: we don’t take a position on revocation of Article 370 but we are taking a position on how Kashmiris live their lives. Points out that opposition parties supported revocation of Article 370.

@JacksonLeeTX18 unsurprisingly gives Pak military POV and whitewashes Pak role in terrorism. She is chair of the Pak Caucus so it’s expected.

Alice Wells: Troop numbers cited are misleading (800,000 cited by Congressman Costa) because most are deployed along the border where constant skirmishes have gone one since the ceasefire broke down.

@PramilaJayapal talks about her recent visit to India and how there was a great sense of fear among minorities and even Hindus. Says she asked @narendramodi to speak out against growing intolerance but is disappointed that he hasn’t.

From Sunanda Vashisht

Assistant Secretary Destro says India has functioning courts and Kashmiri people can make their defenses there. Well said. #Humanrightshearing

Congressman @RepTedYoho makes very strong points on Pakistan. There is a difference between action and rhetoric he says. Pakistan can go to China and let them take care of those people

Lot of questions about communication blockade. Generally hostile comments by Rep Malinowski from New Jersey. #hearing

This is a Kashmir hearing. Not ‘South Asia’ .. 9 out of 10 questions on Kashmir .

Press is NOT being prohibited in Kashmir. Rep David Ciicilline from Rhode Island is grossly misinformed.

Rep David Cicilline again making motivated statements about pellet guns. Children are not being blindly ‘routinely’. This is nonsense..

Again Cicilline asks a question on RSS. Not sure what does that have to do with Kashmir.

Asst Secy Wells does well on saying that ‘ they are not taking a position on 370’ .. well done

Asst Secy Wells does good in rebutting Sheila Jackson Lee’s motivated comments. Indian and Pakistan CANNOT be equated. Also Wells asks about Pakistan’s commitment to eliminating terror.

One troop for 8 people in Kashmir asks Rep Costa. Where is this bit of information coming from? I think there is serious crisis of facts here in this #hearing

Rep Costa needs to know India is dealing with Terrorism in Kashmir for last 30 years. Not one word about terrorism. #hearing

We believe that India and Pakistan need to address this bilaterally says Asst Secy Wells to Rep Costa about the question on UN commission on Human Rights. India rejects any third party interference #hearing

What nonsense @BradSherman - Texas and California are not dealing with terrorism nor is there any secessionist movement going on there. How can you compare that to Kashmir. This is apples and oranges at another level

Rep @RepJayapal speaks again - talks about normalization in 4 months as promised by PM Modi. Believes revocation of 370 is not ‘economic move’. Gets claps..

Asst Secy Wells says US ambassador to India has visited to J&K

Wow!! Shame on you @RepJayapal . You talk about minorities and do not mention Hindus of Kashmir !!

News stations are threatened in India? Where is your proof @RepJayapal . India has free and fair press. Where are these ‘facts’ coming from #hearing

Panel 2 in an hour or so. Panel 1 over #hearing. Never seen more lopsided hearing ..

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 22 Oct 2019 23:26

Indian origin American politicians seem to be the worst kind of turncoats. Probably sell their own mothers if they get votes out of it. Ack thoo only.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 22 Oct 2019 23:31

ramana wrote:Is there a caption to go along with the picture!

https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status ... 73579?s=20

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 22 Oct 2019 23:35

Prem wrote:

Thanks for posting this. Few people: Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, former Australian PM John Howard, former US Secretaries of State Henry Kissinger and Condoleezza Rice, former Secretary of Defence Robert Gates as well as leading figures from the world of business and finance like Jamie Dimon (JP Morgan Chase), Ratan Tata (Tata Group) and leading representatives from global companies like Nestle, Alibaba, Alfa, Iberdola, Kraft Heinz etc.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 22 Oct 2019 23:38

I think there is a clear movement of the Indian American community from being staunch Dem voters towards the Republican side. This is probably because the IA community has become richer and the R party is more favorable. The D's also have a pro Pak leaning.

The Peacefools are all completely Dem voters.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 23 Oct 2019 00:09

OT but Ratan Tata doesn't look all that healthy in the above picture.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Oct 2019 00:21

Unfortunately kissmyassinger does

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 23 Oct 2019 00:24

Bart S wrote:
ramana wrote:Is there a caption to go along with the picture!
https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status ... 73579?s=20

Namaste Namastey gaanaa hoga
Agar is desh ka Visa paanaa hoga
*Anjali Mudra* karnaa hogaa

Next time please take a bunch of pics with namaste especially for secular gang.

(Welcome burnol company)

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 23 Oct 2019 07:49

Aarti Tikoo Singh

https://twitter.com/AartiTikoo/status/1 ... 7822653440

Pakistani Islamists drove me & my community (Kashmiri Hindus) out of Kashmir in 1990, Hindu India denied me voice for 30 years & Islamist @IlhanMN gagged me today under the chairmanship of Democrat Congressman @BradSherman. Is this democracy? No, it’s IslamoCapitalism talking.

Every congressional rep from @TheDemocrats @RepJayapal @IlhanMN @tedlieu including their chairman @BradSherman were so afraid of hearing the truth about Kashmir & how Pakistani jihadists have destroyed Hindus & Muslims of #Kashmir, that they censored me from the world. #SHAME

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Oct 2019 07:50

Reaction to Houston?

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 23 Oct 2019 08:41

UlanBatori wrote:Reaction to Houston?

First Indian PM that the Western establishment would really like to engage with for various reasons, strong mandate, clear focus on priorities, the Indian economy has reached a critical mass and most important somebody they can do business with. Witness the picture below, Tony Blair, Condoleeza Rice, Robert Gates ex CIA Director under George Bush Senior and Defence Secretary under George Bush Junior, ex Australian PM and of course Henry Kissenger. That's about as establishment as you can get:

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Oct 2019 09:55

True, but the US establishment requires their permanent " fix" of pure Paki 'pium, to conduct their dirty tricks in Asia and the region. India, the world's largest democracy and unmatched indigenous spiritualism , spread all over the globe, refuge for the Jews and has its own version of Christianity long before the Portugese came to our shores, is a potential rival to global leadership.What the US wants is a servile vassal India, a billion+ market for crappy US goods and defencd eqpt. and our armed forces as cannon fodder for any future spat with China.
If we do not realise this we are deceiving ourselves and the fickleness of the US is yet agsin on display in Syria where Trump has backstabbed the Turds....sorry, Kurds, in typical Yanqui style refined to an art especially from the days of the Vietnsm war , to date.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Oct 2019 10:05

UlanBatori wrote:Reaction to Houston?

And Mamallapuram, Riyadh etc

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Oct 2019 10:08

Philip none of that. We are witnessing some tectonic geopolitical shift.
Need to think what it means? Yes there are business leaders but the core is political and should focus on that. And all Anglosphere.
If Boris and Justin were not busy they would be here,

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Oct 2019 10:23

Trump, tectonic shift? The man who's carving out the destiny of the ME is czar Putin.The US is in retreat, utterly divided at home and the lack of a stable government with a supersonic revolving door for the top babu posts betrays instability on a grand scale.Hitching our star to that wagon without insurance is a recipe for disaster.

We must look to our own strengths and not become a US lackey or cheerleader.The PM not attending the NAM summit is a mistake.Every little nation has its usefulness. While we slept running after big powers the Chinese openly walked into non- aligned Sri Lanka and we are up the creek without a paddle as to what to do with a rabid anti-Tamil, anti-Indian pro- Chinese fascist in pole position to be elected as president next month.

We shouldn't aim to claim Pak's rent- boy status in the sub- continent! By the way, is the US policy in Afg. helpful to us when it covertly engages with the Taliban? It has for decades deliberately kept us out of the Afg. picture, only looking after its own interests.I am sceptical in the extreme studying the history of US betrayals of its so- called allies over the last century. I will be proven right, just wait and watch.

mappunni · Post by **mappunni** » 23 Oct 2019 10:25

KJo wrote:I think there is a clear movement of the Indian American community from being staunch Dem voters towards the Republican side. This is probably because the IA community has become richer and the R party is more favorable. The D's also have a pro Pak leaning.

The Peacefools are all completely Dem voters.

I have signed up to volunteer at my county Republican Party to help educate Americans of Indian origin why it’s imperative for us to support and vote Republican. Open their eyes to how DemoCraps pander to the Paki crowd.

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 23 Oct 2019 10:27

I offer you my stable hands!

hgupta · Post by **hgupta** » 23 Oct 2019 21:33

mappunni wrote:
KJo wrote:I think there is a clear movement of the Indian American community from being staunch Dem voters towards the Republican side. This is probably because the IA community has become richer and the R party is more favorable. The D's also have a pro Pak leaning.

The Peacefools are all completely Dem voters.
I have signed up to volunteer at my county Republican Party to help educate Americans of Indian origin why it’s imperative for us to support and vote Republican. Open their eyes to how DemoCraps pander to the Paki crowd.

Speak for yourself but no way I am supporting Republicans unless they remove Trump. There are other larger issues facing Indian Americans besides pro India stance that affects the Indian Americans such as the visa issues and incoherent business policies.

mappunni · Post by **mappunni** » 24 Oct 2019 00:20

hgupta wrote:
mappunni wrote:
I have signed up to volunteer at my county Republican Party to help educate Americans of Indian origin why it’s imperative for us to support and vote Republican. Open their eyes to how DemoCraps pander to the Paki crowd.
Speak for yourself but no way I am supporting Republicans unless they remove Trump. There are other larger issues facing Indian Americans besides pro India stance that affects the Indian Americans such as the visa issues and incoherent business policies.

What visa issues for US citizens? What incoherent business policies?

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 24 Oct 2019 01:15

mappunni wrote:
hgupta wrote:
Speak for yourself but no way I am supporting Republicans unless they remove Trump. There are other larger issues facing Indian Americans besides pro India stance that affects the Indian Americans such as the visa issues and incoherent business policies.
What visa issues for US citizens? What incoherent business policies?

What visa issues do citizens who vote have? What nonsense

Dems are firmly in the pockets of pakis, no way they get my vote

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Oct 2019 01:20

"Indian Americans concerned with visa". I assume Indian visa?

[Edited]

hgupta · Post by **hgupta** » 24 Oct 2019 03:17

UlanBatori wrote:"Indian Americans concerned with visa". I assume Indian visa?
Only a real Pakistani could have come up with that brilliant gem

Sure come up with ad hominem attacks on someone who doesn’t share your political views.

hgupta · Post by **hgupta** » 24 Oct 2019 03:21

Raveen wrote:
mappunni wrote:
What visa issues for US citizens? What incoherent business policies?

What visa issues do citizens who vote have? What nonsense

Decrease of H1b visas and other kind of visas from India. Incoherent business policies - tariffs and refusal to join the pacific free trade pact and withdrawal of NAFTA. My business and other people’s business have suffered loss of growth. I personally lost several hundreds of thousands of dollars of future business orders due to the uncertainty caused by his incoherent business policies.

Dems are firmly in the pockets of pakis, no way they get my vote

Well trump ain’t getting my vote either. He needs to go and so do the republicans supporting him. He’s a disaster for this country and generally for India overall. I don’t buy into the theory that all Democrats suck and only support Pakistanis. There are some Democrats that are pro India and they get my votes. Heck some of the republicans are too evangelical for my taste and heck no way I’m supporting those types of people. So I don’t buy into this sweeping over generalizations you guys have seemed to paste on the Democrats.

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 24 Oct 2019 04:09

cognitive dissonance phase...

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 24 Oct 2019 04:19

hgupta wrote:. There are some Democrats that are pro India and they get my votes.

Except for Tulsi, which other democrats are sympathetic to Hindus ? Republicans are not either. and certainly not the evangelicals. But democrats seems to be the worst on the face Hinduphobes of either two and more accommodating of the Islamists. Its a choice between bad and worse and Dems seems to be worse for Hindus or India.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Oct 2019 04:22

Folks don't discuss your personal preferences here.
Thanks you.
ramana

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Oct 2019 04:51

ramana, pls don't hit me - I just saw your post and have been working on this one for an hour, no disrespect intended. Please delete if OT for this thread. I need to apologize to hgupta.

Apologies to hguptaji, and Thanks for the explanation. I have lost money on the stock market too because policies/reality did not work out as I had anticipated. I agree with all of this, BTW:

I don’t buy into the theory that all Democrats suck and only support Pakistanis. There are some Democrats that are pro India and they get my votes. Heck some of the republicans are too evangelical for my taste and heck no way I’m supporting those types of people. So I don’t buy into this sweeping over generalizations you guys have seemed to paste on the Democrats.

Unfortunately the 95% of Democrat lawkamers/POTUS candidates are giving the other 5% a bad name. IOW, even if they have some sense they are being crushed by the avalanche of negativity of the Party, which is what Tulsi Gabbard has been citing, but it is like Cassandraji warning of doom for Troy.

Same as Pakis except there it is the 99.99% giving the rest a bad name.
As for H1B, I happen to believe that the system is totally broken and 90% corrupt, and the blame lies as much with the desi big-name companies as with GOTUS. System is no longer based on merit, nor on real family empathy. Quality has crashed. And at least some of the blame for that lies with Indian-Americans who have been milking the system to the detriment of **BOTH** nations but to the benefit of their own pockets.
True that businesses operate by recognizing "opportunities" posed by existing policies, but where those opportunities are seen as loopholes, the govt tries to close them - usually with disastrous effects somewhere else. Whose fault is this? I think it comes under "business risk". Immigration and particularly H1B policy uncertainty is a prime example of this.

Over 1 million ppl are coming into the US from just the southern border each year, claiming refugee status, OUTSIDE the usual legal immigration channels. Empathy and compassion are needed there, along with hard-nosed border enforcement to maintain some semblance of hope to stem the tide. If any leeway is shown the 1 million will become 100 million in no time - and again, that is a body-shopping business, with "businesspeople" reaping obscene profits. Sometimes I wonder what it must be like to be a border agent with any sort of imagination and empathy.

So like MAD devising a harsh clampdown, the GOTUS also tries to do whatever is needed to keep violence down and still steer towards some sort of sensible process. Leaders who do that get attacked from all sides including business - and the Democrats have NO credibility when they attack. I know people who went through GC / citizenship process while BO was POTUS - and the system was actually even more broken. Due to the 9/11/2001 tamasha, the backlog of POST-INTERVIEW GC and citizenship applicants was around 500K to 1M in 2007. Forget those pre-interview! The Govt claimed to have CLEARED the backlog by end of July 2008 at least for citjen applicants.

So now the Democrats claim they can do better than Trump? Why didn't they, in 8 years of controlling the Executive Branch since 2009?
This BTW is the same rationale of questioning that applied in 2008 when people voted BO in, when Republicans were screaming about the economy. Why didn't they fix the economy when they were in power for 8 years? They inherited a nice surplus economy and turned it into the worst recession since 1929.

Now it is the Democrats who have no case.

Looking objectively, Trump is behaving like a particularly effective executive business leader. Bottom line:
1. He has not started any wars.
2. He has defused several where the US was on the brink of idiocy courtesy of his predecessors.
3. The stock market started zooming when he took over, and in 3 years it is still up (don't Indian American businesspeople care about that I wonder)
4. Employment is up, despite very very tough competitive realities abroad.
5. The dollar is high despite MASSIVE "QE" which should have totally deflated the value of the dollar. I have no clue why.
6. Energy crisis is a bad memory: gasoline prices are lower now than in 2003 I think. This MATTERS HUGELY to American citizens and residents, does it not?
7. Meanwhile, alternate energy strategies are not dead: the automobile and even truck fleets are rapidly switching to EV/fuel cell/natural gas. By business economics, not govt. diktat.
8. Terrible trade deals are being renegotiated to the advantage of the USA. Several "impossible" walls have been broken there.
America's competitors are in shambles: Europe, China, South America. India is very deft to stay out of that, and that is due in no small part to Trump's intelligence about India and Hindus.

9. Positive Recognition for Hindus is way, way, way up in the US. If someone had told me a Hindu woman would be running for POTUS, I would have laughed some years ago. This is **NOT*** due to Democrat pro-Hinduism - their National Establishment hates her. It is due to Trump showing the way.

10. China's invasive march forward has been checked. I wonder where the Xinjiang and Hong Kong "color revolutions" are heading, but don't think the See Aiyyeh is idle: this is their #1 skillset.

11. And to his credit, Trump boldly disses the Islamofascist entities and has put some looooong-needed scrutiny of their shenanogans to destroy democracy and freedom.
12. From what I see, the true challenge to American Liberalism and Freedoms comes not from the nutcase Republicans but from the so-called "Liberal Democrats". Far from fighting for Equal Rights and the Constitution, what they have been implementing is basically Islamic Law in another name. Campus freedoms are gone, public free speech rights are gone, merit-based evaluations are gone. All controls for basic decency and morality are gone. It is a state of dhimmitude imposed on the American public, and it is getting worse every day. Who would have thought that the Orwellian State would be brought by the Democrats (well, everyone who could think, I suppose).

13. And the way he accomplishes all this is by being an utterly unpredictable, fast-changing, nimble, and extremely sharp leader. IOW Wacko # 1. NO other way to do this. Those who short-sell or speculate based on his future actions, are taking at least a 50-50 risk.

The rest are gutter inspection items. The KKK/other nitwits have always been there: note that the KKK were DEMOCRATS to begin with. Trump can threaten other nations and withhold aid, it is the prerogative of the Executive. Back in ENRON days, Kenneth Lay (pbuh) sultan of ENRON threatened Indian govt that he would get the POTUS (his Texas buddy) to bomb Delhi if India didn't pay up the blackmail payments for the stupid DABHOL SNAFU. This is why POTUSes have telephones in their offices: you saw the kind letter he wrote to Erdogan, as an example of the language that comes out of the Oral Office. Come to think of it, wasn't it Democrat Jimmy Carter who ordered a Cold Blunt Memo to India, even as he was being feted and kissed-up-to by adulating Indians in India?

Trump came promising to shake the pakistan out of the Establishment. That was why people voted for him. Unlike all predecessors who promised that (Carter did, for example) he has actually shown that he KNOWS HOW. And of course those who control the media etc hate him, isn't that to be expected?

Compared to him the Democrat candidates are pygmies, no insult to those brave warriors.
Of course I won't discuss any personal preferences here, what would Mongolians know about US voters?

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 24 Oct 2019 05:25

Decrease of H1B visas is because people from overseas (non US citizens) were overrunning the country (from the perspective of local Americans). I can very well see their point. A lot of Indian (and also American) companies also indulged in shady practices which caused a lot of trouble, so the effort has been to stop this. This cleanup needed to be done. This is like a demonetization of visas

Trump has to do what is good for his voters, not what is good for India or "international community".

Edit: UBji, fant-e-stic post above.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 24 Oct 2019 05:29

KJo wrote: Trump has to do what is good for his voters, not what is good for India or "international community".

One reason why we are constantly trying to shut down the Republican vs Democrat debate here. This thread has everything to do with what is good/bad for India in terms of its relationship with the US and nothing to do with American voters.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 24 Oct 2019 05:30

This is disingenuous to say the least, unworthy of a BRFer: “note that the KKK were DEMOCRATS to begin with“. Once the Democrats in the early sixties moved in favor of civil rights, citizenship for people of all nations, not just for whites, the KKK turned Republican.

The basis for there to be an Indian-American audience for Howdy Modi was laid by the Hart-Celler Act of 1965 that was done by the Democrats.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigra ... ct_of_1965
Before that, people of Indian origin could not become naturalized citizens of the US.

The legislation that the Democrats passed empowering “people of color” not only lost the South to the Democrats for a generation, as predicted by Lyndon B Johnson, it has caused a complete realignment with Democrats and Republicans switching their roles relative to pre-1960 on issues of racial equality.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 24 Oct 2019 05:33

“Trump can threaten other nations and withhold aid, it is the prerogative of the Executive.“ - no, only if Congress has granted him such authority to do so. Congress has the power of the purse, and the President can’t do an end-run around Congress’s authority, by spending or not spending monies appropriated by Congress where he chooses.

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 24 Oct 2019 05:37

He can always declare a national emergency and get money.

Fantastic post UBji. Can I use these in my SM circles?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 24 Oct 2019 05:43

Some history: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... gop-214179

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 24 Oct 2019 05:45

KJo wrote:Decrease of H1B visas is because people from overseas (non US citizens) were overrunning the country (from the perspective of local Americans). I can very well see their point.

I agree. The joke among my kids high school class "Columbus called this India as he landed at the local Costco!"

The issue is not about H1B. The issue happened due to family getting permission to work and they take up all the other jobs - Costco, Home Depot, Ross, QFC, Fred Meyer, Driving Schools, Landscaping office jobs, dentist office jobs, receptionists - you name it - you have Indians everywhere!

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 24 Oct 2019 05:46

National emergency, too, in this regard, is a power granted by Congress to President by legislation, and can be rescinded by it. It is not a Constitutional power of the President.

I can now understand some of the antipathy towards immigrants - they do not bother to understand the laws or the history of their new country.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa ... encies_Act
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ted_States