J&K Union Territory-2019

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Primus
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Primus »

somdev wrote:................

Ask your family members/elders/parents/grand parents why they have been voting for Congress for large part of last 70 years (there was no credible opposition/alternative for Congress then ... why?). BJP is a recent phenomenon (80s). Take ownership of collective failure ... KPs have been suffering for last 70 years ... so who let them down?
Interesting.

Somdev Ji, I left Desh a long time ago and the history we were taught in my time was best forgotten. Like so many of my contemporaries, I too was brainwashed at the time, but living in England for several years opened my eyes, especially when I saw the loot everywhere, most of it from India. And to top it all, the attitude.

So on my frequent trips back to Desh I made it a point to pick up books on our own history, not from the usual Commie writers, but from the Brits themselves, how they felt as they lorded it over my ancestors. I read as much as I could get, those were the pre-internet days and I had to do the rounds of Galgotia and Sons, Bookworm and similar places to find the books on the 'Days of The Raj' that I was interested in reading.

My quest was to find the answer to this very question you are asking - who let us down? How did a pissant country of a few million manage to rule over a huge and powerful nation like India? Were my great-grandparents and their parents complicit somehow, where they cowards to let this happen?

In the end this led me down other avenues, including the Islamic conquest of India, which is yet another tragic tale. Suffice it to say, in almost every era, there have been our own collaborators, quislings, Mir Jafars and Jaichands. As the old saying goes, the axe can never cut down the mighty oak until it acquires a wooden handle. So it was with the history of India.

And so it has been with the history of Kashmir. Our own government, our own politicians have let us down. I dare say that were it not for the antics of the Congress and its progeny, starting with the Rose Man himself, India and Kashmir would have had a different trajectory.

And FWIW, my family never voted Congress, it was always Jan Sangh. I, however, used to vote Congress, but then did I say I too was brain-washed?
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by UlanBatori »

So I looked up who these Far-Righters are: Took quite a lot of searching.

The delegation comprised:
Poland's Joana Kopcinska, Grzegorz Tobiszowski, Ryszard Czarnecki, Kosma Zlotowski, Bogdan Rzonca and Elzbieta Rafalska
Italy's Silvia Sardone, Gianna Gancia, Fulvio Martusciello and Guiseppe Ferrandino
France's France Jamet, Nicholas Bay, Virginie Joron, Julie Lechanteux, Maxette Pirbakas and Thierry Mariani
Germany's Bernhard Zimniok and Lars Patrick Berg
Spain's Hermann Tertsch
Belgium's Tom Vandendriessche
UK's David Richard Bull, Bill Newton Dunn, Alexandra Phillips, James Wells and Nathan Gill
Czech Republic's Tomas Zdechobsky
Slovakia's Peter Pollak
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by UlanBatori »

And why Mehbooba Muftiji is against them:
Slamming the government for engaging in attempts to convince the international community about normalcy in Kashmir, Mehbooba Mufti said incessant foreign policy gaffes are being made. "From endorsing a Republican as US President :eek: to engaging with what seem like pro fascist, right-leaning and anti-immigrant EU MPs. Royal mess," she tweeted.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Primus »

UlanBatori wrote:
6:57 PM IST
Posted by Arshi Aggarwal
EU delegation briefed about Pak-backed terror
According to army sources, the EU delegation was briefed by the army about Pakistan's role in fueling terror in Kashmir. The briefing was held at 15 Corps Headquarters in Srinagar today.
In the meeting with European Union MPs, security forces including army briefed them about the role of Pakistan in fuelling terrorism in the Kashmir Valley and the role of the Pakistani army in pushing terrorists into India.
In a similar briefing in New Delhi, defence attaches from various countries were briefed by the security forces about the Pak-sponsored terror in Kashmir region since the abrogation of Article 2370.
If it works in Anchar, it can work in Brighton..
IIRC, this has never happened before, GOI - especially the army top brass briefing a 'foreign delegation', however informal it may be, that too in a war zone. This is a true game-changer and it is thus no surprise that the Congis have gotten their chaddis in a twist, they know this is another 'surgical strike' not only on the Pakis but also on their political future. Same for the PDP and other Islam pasand parties.

I doubt anybody who sees the evidence presented to them in person by an Army General can ignore it or not be impressed by it. No matter what, these people will take away images of the same $hit happening in their own backyard.

IMHO this is a master stroke by MAD.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by UlanBatori »

I had not seen this b4:
Apparently circa Oct. 20, SatyaPal Malikji flat declared that unless Pakistan "stops" the terrorist camps,
We will go deep inside and destroy them
That's pretty much a declaration that India will enter POK.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by UlanBatori »

Murder of 5 working men from West Bengal: From The Hindu
Another labourer was critically injured; all victims hail from Murshidabad district of West Bengal.

Coinciding with the visit of 23 Members of European Parliament to Kashmir, suspected militants abducted and shot dead five non-local labourers and injured another in South Kashmir’s Kulgam on October 29 evening, just 24 hour after a non-local truck driver was killed in Anantnag.
The incident took place around 7.30 p.m. in Kulgam's Katrussu area, just 4 km away from the town headquarters. “Five labourers putting up in Katrussu area have been found shot dead. One injured has been shifted to a Srinagar hospital. The circumstances in which they were killed is being ascertained,” Deputy Commissioner, Kulgam, Showkat Ajaz, told The Hindu.
Police sources said a group of heavily armed gunmen barged into the rented accommodation of these labourers and directed them to accompany them. “They were later shot dead in a nearby area,” said a police officer.
The injured, Zahoor-ud-Din, is battling for his life in a Srinagar hospital. “He has bullet injuries in the lower limbs and in the arms,” according to the hospital officials.
The police have identified the victims as Kamru-ud-Din, Mursleen Sheikh, Rafiq ul Sheikh, Rafiq Sheikh and Sadiq-ul-Sheikh and Nayeem-ud-Din Sheikh, all residents of West Bengal.

The attack came on a day when a 23-member MEP team arrived in Srinagar to assess the ground situation and met several local delegations.
A total of eleven non-locals, including drivers and traders, have been killed in Kashmir in six such attacks since the Centre’s August 5 decision on J&K's special status.
On October 28, a truck driver was killed near Kanalwan Fruit Mandi in Bijbehara area. “One of the three suspected militants was also hit by a bullet fired by his companions. His body was found from Gadseergam on Tuesday (October 29) morning,” police said. :?: :?:
A mask and a Pheran, traditional long woolen robe worn during winters in the Valley, was also recovered from the spot. “The dead body of the suspected militant was sent for a medico-legal formalities. A manhunt is on to arrest the others,” said the police.
P.S. I want to get myself a Pheran to wear in Malloostan like the Mollywood herrows. How does one get this?
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by UlanBatori »

BTW, is this attack the reason why the EU RightWingers' trip to Kupwara was cancelled? Is Kulgam in Kupwara? I am 404 about J-K-L geography.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Avtar Singh »

India should tell these eu commies/fake liberals..;. soon to be islamic to get lost,
really India should use stronger language and tell them to;
#### ##### ### ……...as the british would say

this is the language these people understand


but progress is being made.. PM Modi wants to appear as an international statesman
and not a thug like me; I am not actually a thug!

Streets ahead of that picture somewhere on these pages..
of so called PM ManMoron Spineless Singh bent double trying to kiss Ob#mas tushy


Any business of the Indian sub continent is in the hands of whoever can bring the most
power to bear with the shortest logistics chain… guess who that is.

Everyone else, as the americans would say, should be told to pound sand.

Von der leyen when she was in charge of german defence had german soldiers
running around with broom sticks

Especially those loathsome and vile british mps/meps they should be denied visas,
unless they can behave and show respect… In the meantime they can carry on licking
pakistani you know what

But India will get there as younger generations come up, even the current lot probably
cr#p themselves when they see a “gora”

when these people talk about “muslim” kashmir
ask them when will there be a;
muslim…… berlin, munich, paris, lyon, marseille…..
bradford/luton/ muslim yorkshire.
Well you get the drift…
Indian diplomats using these retorts will be heard by their own people….
It will keep them busy at home, they will have no time to come on these jaunts

They should keep their noses out stay at home and sort there declining countries out..
Also it encourages the FLICs (Fake Liberal Islamist Communists) in India to start their barking

Stupid sweden is already “muslim” sweden


Serves them all right… they are getting what they deserve having dished it out to India for decades
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Vayutuvan »

Primus wrote: ... My quest was to find the answer to this very question you are asking - who let us down? How did a pissant country of a few million manage to rule over a huge and powerful nation like India? Were my great-grandparents and their parents complicit somehow, where they cowards to let this happen? ...
Good post. By the way, I had no doubts like that since my uncle was a freedom fighter who was jailed along with Maulana Azad. He never entered politics following MKG's wish to disband INC and all the freedom fighters start working on social upliftment. He died a happy and contented man who was an idol for many. His peers who entered politics rose very high, one rising to the highest post of India.

So no, none of our family members were cowardly.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by ArjunPandit »

Primus wrote:
UlanBatori wrote: If it works in Anchar, it can work in Brighton..
IIRC, this has never happened before, GOI - especially the army top brass briefing a 'foreign delegation', however informal it may be, that too in a war zone. This is a true game-changer and it is thus no surprise that the Congis have gotten their chaddis in a twist, they know this is another 'surgical strike' not only on the Pakis but also on their political future. Same for the PDP and other Islam pasand parties.

I doubt anybody who sees the evidence presented to them in person by an Army General can ignore it or not be impressed by it. No matter what, these people will take away images of the same $hit happening in their own backyard.

IMHO this is a master stroke by MAD.
I see one more aspect to it, there is a global resurgence of right or the so called far right. This can be and should be viewed as an investment in our future. Most of the european countries will have a backlash against the refugee war unleashed on them by turkey and germany (let's hope so).
CT Alert, it could be a precursor to build a global narrative against pakis so that when pok and gb are settled these leaders can support us and in return can claim support from Indian diaspora.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by UlanBatori »

The resurgence is of Nationalism and Native Culture, as a backlash to the invasion by alien cultures and foreign-dominated "MNC" ripoffs. In this respect there is common cause. So-called 'liberalism' is a brave notion, but it has no defence when faced with the equivalent of the alien invaders pictured in "Independence Day".
(Liberal flunky concept of) POTUS: We want peace with your civilization. Tell me, what do you want us to do?
DIE!!
Rational, logical, "fair" discussion etc do not have any future when faced with this. This is what we, and other so-called "nationalists" have become convinced of. While we may not be ready yet to go "survivalist" with combat fatigues and bunkers and AR-15/ AK-47s, that scenario is precisely what we would like to avoid. Also, avoid what happened to the Yazidis of Iraq.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 30 Oct 2019 06:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by yensoy »

UlanBatori wrote:So I looked up who these Far-Righters are: Took quite a lot of searching.

The delegation comprised:
Poland's Joana Kopcinska, Grzegorz Tobiszowski, Ryszard Czarnecki, Kosma Zlotowski, Bogdan Rzonca and Elzbieta Rafalska
Italy's Silvia Sardone, Gianna Gancia, Fulvio Martusciello and Guiseppe Ferrandino
France's France Jamet, Nicholas Bay, Virginie Joron, Julie Lechanteux, Maxette Pirbakas and Thierry Mariani
Germany's Bernhard Zimniok and Lars Patrick Berg
Spain's Hermann Tertsch
Belgium's Tom Vandendriessche
UK's David Richard Bull, Bill Newton Dunn, Alexandra Phillips, James Wells and Nathan Gill
Czech Republic's Tomas Zdechobsky
Slovakia's Peter Pollak
All this rona-dhona about how this is not an "official visit"... bullshit... They are sitting MEPs and that's what matters. "far right" who cares? A vote is a vote is a vote; an MEP is an MEP is an MEP. If the "far right" are more sympathetic towards us, good for us! Let's soften them up first, and then soften up the centrists.
Did the various Paki sponsored outfits ensure that they had a good representation of minorities (or hell, even women) in their various protests?
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by UlanBatori »

(or hell, even women)
They did have a few: Along the lines of
Bubble, bubble toil and trouble
When shall we three meet again
In London, UN or in Spain?
Come October 31, Air Traffic Control is going to be really busy.

I am holding my breath to see what these presumed-fascisti will say once out of India. Like I said above, this is the first time that MAD are really showing the finger in public.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by UlanBatori »

Mantri Jitendraji lays it out: Internet Ban Saved Lives.
Union Minister Jitendra Singh on Tuesday said that the suspension of internet services in Jammu and Kashmir has helped in averting some major terror incidents in the last two months.
..those who are opposing the curb on the internet either have a vested interest in the continuance of militancy in Jammu and Kashmir or they want to play politics at the cost of India's sovereignty and common man's safety.

Speaking at separate meetings of the District Development Coordination and Monitoring Committee, known as 'Disha', in Doda and Kishtwar districts, Jitendra Singh said that the elimination of several terrorists in Kishtwar was possible because of the suspension of the internet.
The suspension has also helped in flushing out terrorists operating in Kishtwar and other parts of the Chenab region, Jitendra Singh said.
... certain political activists in the Kashmir valley have been continuously raising a hue and cry over the suspension of internet because they are the "beneficiaries of terrorism" and their politics has, over the last three decades, "survived due to dismal voter turn-out under the fear of militancy".
"But more pathetic is the case of the fringe elements in Jammu region who have fallen in the trap of this pro-terror jargon and are trying to denounce the suspension of internet," Jitendra Singh said.
... said that these political activists are devoid of issues and are therefore desperate to make an issue even if it is at the cost of common man's life.
... said that some of these fringe leaders, who otherwise proclaim themselves to be nationalists or patriots or self-styled guardians of Jammu, are actually issuing thoughtless statements which are music for Pakistan and also an endorsement as well as support for those who have been executing terror attacks in Jammu region.
... pointed out to the recent nabbing of the terrorists who were travelling from Lakhanpur towards Jammu and said that they could be intercepted due to the ban on the internet.
Similarly, Jitendra Singh said, the other day, some terrorists being chased out of Kishtwar by security forces, barged into the house of a local citizen in Batote but were liquidated because they were devoid of the internet connection to be guided by their cohorts.
At the same time, Jitendra Singh said that a number of infiltration bids from the border could be foiled because a stray infiltrator, who did manage to cross over to this side could not be helped by his associates to carry out further movement as had been the practice earlier by using internet, Whatsapp and similar means.
.. said that some critics tend to look at the restrictions "through the prism of abrogated Article 370".
... called upon the "learned" journalists to do a thorough scanning of past 30 years of militancy and find out on how many occasions the internet was suspended.
At times, it was suspended for an equal or even longer period, when Article 370 was very much in place, Jitendra Singh said and asked media to draw comparisons between the pace of development activity during those periods of internet suspensions and the present period.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by UlanBatori »

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Cain Marko »

Vips wrote:She has been lording over Lutyens for a long time and has done much to be afraid of (Radia Tapes). She has seen how Modi/Shah/Doval can act and has propmptly put on the diaper.
Wasnt she a guest columnist for nyt or time? Maybe she can put some of that outrage to use?
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Vayutuvan »

WaPo
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Deans »

UlanBatori wrote:And why Mehbooba Muftiji is against them:
Slamming the government for engaging in attempts to convince the international community about normalcy in Kashmir, Mehbooba Mufti said incessant foreign policy gaffes are being made. "From endorsing a Republican as US President :eek: to engaging with what seem like pro fascist, right-leaning and anti-immigrant EU MPs. Royal mess," she tweeted.
Just had a discussion with my NRI relatives (the type who start sentences with `you people should...') on why foreign MP's can't be allowed unfettered access to Kashmir and why our MPs are not permitted. Some points, which I feel may be relevant to the forum:

1. Specific Intel inputs of Pak pressurising terrorists to disrupt normalcy, by targetting economic activity (apples, shops) or outsiders (5 workers
killed yesterday). Risk has increased significantly, in the current period, with restrictions eased and before winter sets in. There would be a very
high probability of a western politician being targeted if he wanders of on his own.
US senators are not permitted (local military commander is the final authority) to wander around the Sunni triangle in Iraq, or recently liberated
ISIS areas of Syria on their own.

2. Visits lead to bandhs, more violence etc as terrorist groups try to Internationalise Kashmir. Better to have fewer visits.

3. All countries have their military attaches/ journalists free to visit and brief their MPs in more detail

4. In the 10 years that UPA was in power or the 5 years of NDA-1, when RaGa was the Cong PV & shadow PM, he never visited the valley once.
Neither, to the best of my knowledge, did MMS (though he did entertain a separatist leader who boasted about killing our military personnel,
while never attending the funeral of any of our security forces KIA). No moral authority to now say he or the Cong leadership needs to visit.

5 All national political parties have their elected reps in the valley to inform them of the ground situation. If not, the Kashmir based parties tweet
about it daily. Various left organisations have visited the valley after 5 Aug.

Points 1 & 2 also apply to local politicians wanting to visit.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Aditya_V »

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 810661.cms

So Bajwa strikes by killing 5 migrant people , what bravery.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Philip »

I have said ad nauseum that it is impossible for Pak to behave like a responsible, cuvilised nation when it comes to Kashmir.It is incorrigible in its policy of unleashing terror in the state with the ultimate aim of annexing it any which way.

So what must our policy be? Only inflicting upon Pak unbearable pain upon its military and the unfinished task of its destruction, dismemberment and downfall of Jinnah's nightmare , will India be at peace on the issue.

Terrorism in Kashmir is only the symptom of the incurable disease that is Pakistan! Can't our precious politican and babu buffoons get it into their skulls of this truth? Plus the fact that China pulls the strings of Pak to keep India off balance.A two'front policy is required by India.One, dismembering Pak by sustained pro- active support for Baluchis, Mohajirs, frontier tribals, etc. on the one hand and on the other a sustained campaign of military interaction with China's enemies in ASEAN like Vietnam, the Phillippines, Indonesia and engaging with Taiwan and the Tibetan diaspora to ultimately recognise Taiwan diplomatically and declare the Chinese occupation of Tibet illegal and recognise Tibet as independent and an Indian protectorate. Do our babus have the stomach for it though? Grave doubts.All that the MEA offers is placebos and soporifics...without any substance, merely style.

PS: This also demands a concerted military build up to replacd antiquated equipment, modernise and upgrade equipment that will still serve for a decade plus and increasing capability both in numbers and advanced capability introducing new force multipliers like UUVs, UCAVs, leveraging our assets in space to improve real-time seamlessness in responding to crises giving us the advantage of acting before our enemies. It will require a much greater defence budget, at least 3%+ the minimum,
to be able to close existing gaps and weaknesses in our current capability and expedite future acquisitions.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by nam »

So as expected, the Euro MEP, have mentioned how they are not happy with our joker media painting them as "far right".

More importantly, it took a gora to come up with a punchline which none of us thought about.

He said "Kashmir should not be allowed to become another Afghanistan".

This should be our response for any comment about Kashmir. Pak is making all efforts to convert it to another Afghanistan. India will resist it with all it's might.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by rohitvats »

UlanBatori wrote:Ya All*h! Look at the Lt. Gen.!
Stands head and shoulders above the TFTA oiropeans, and what a nice friendly sdre face.
You want to be coming over the Yellow Sea and see THAT? :eek: <SNIP>
That Lt General is 15 Corps Commander and goes by the name of Kanwal Jeet Singh Dhillon or more famously as 'Tiny' Dhillon :P
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Sonugn »

All 6 people killed in the attack are from the same village.
Now mamata has demanded a investigation to find the "real truth".
I have a feeling in which direction this is going to go as far as conspiracy theories go...
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Yagnasri »

Sonugn wrote:I have a feeling in which direction this is going to go as far as conspiracy theories go...
Agree. But as per the reports attacks on the non locals have started sometime back and are being done systematically. These attacks are likely to continue. So any amount of CTs will not hold water to the public at large.

But Communists and peacefuls will spin it as they want. Nothing new there also.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Primus »

Vayutuvan wrote:
Primus wrote: ... My quest was to find the answer to this very question you are asking - who let us down? How did a pissant country of a few million manage to rule over a huge and powerful nation like India? Were my great-grandparents and their parents complicit somehow, where they cowards to let this happen? ...
Good post. By the way, I had no doubts like that since my uncle was a freedom fighter who was jailed along with Maulana Azad. He never entered politics following MKG's wish to disband INC and all the freedom fighters start working on social upliftment. He died a happy and contented man who was an idol for many. His peers who entered politics rose very high, one rising to the highest post of India.

So no, none of our family members were cowardly.
I have a distinct memory of the 'baithak' in my grandfather's home in the ancestral village. Instead of having pictures of the Mahatama or The Chacha on the walls, he had Bhagat Singh and Chandrashekhar Azad. He took great pride in telling us how brave these heroes were and how accurate Azad's pistol shooting was. He was not unusual in this regard, most homes in the village those days had freedom-fighters adorning their walls - apart from the Gods of course. Goes to show that for these simple folks our national heroes were the equivalent of Gods and the Brits were hated, as were those Indians who were seen to be just another face of oppression.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by nam »

https://twitter.com/gauravcsawant/statu ... 2101319680
Visiting European MEPs support India on abrogation of #Article370. Also said terror is the biggest issue stalling development in #Kashmir. Appreciate the role of youth & civil society desirous of peace ..
So much hu ha.. over the visit.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by UlanBatori »

Poor audio (I can't BELIEVE that this is the best that DD can do, is it an amateur recording from the back?), can't hear except that #1 is a Frogistani accent. Nicely wears an INDIAN tricolor flag pin.
#2 says: I have been in India 20 times (past Minister of this and that etc etc). I have been elected 14 times. I remember I was in Afghanistan, last month I was in Syria. I don't want Kashmir to become Syria or Afghanistan. Yesterdin I spoke to citizen groups who spoke from the heart: "We want to be Indian citizens like all other Indian citizens. We want development like all the other states of India..."

Need to listen to him again with good audio. Excellent!
#3 is Poodlestani. Started by talking about the terrorist attack that killed 5 laborers. This is the guy who talked about Oirope being at Biss after 1945. Also put in a good point about Central money not reaching the citjens, so abbreciate the {Panchayat raj I suppose}

#4 I cannot figure out what country. Slams global terrorism.
Can't hear the questions at all. Questioner 1: R u better equipped to counter the propaganda? How to respond to the "RW" criticism?
Answer contrasts Free Press in India (good) vs. neighbors. Shocked by criticism, but understand that it is linked to Indian internal politics which is not our ....

Poodlestani says we believe in openness, free press and asking questions and listening to answers.
Frogistani #2 says ask ur colleagues to study the "calligraphy" (I gather that means "writings") of people before commenting on their political views.
Also, terrorism is not necessarily your problem, it could be "us" {our?} problem too. (smiles)


Can someone pls find the Ophishial video on this? where the audio is not so pakistan?
Last edited by UlanBatori on 30 Oct 2019 18:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by A_Gupta »

Primus wrote: My quest was to find the answer to this very question you are asking - who let us down? How did a pissant country of a few million manage to rule over a huge and powerful nation like India? Were my great-grandparents and their parents complicit somehow, where they cowards to let this happen?
IMO, this is a mis-framing of the question.

Let's start with the thought that even minus India, the "pissant" nation had a pretty huge global empire. What was behind that? It is a certain organization of society + knowledge base + technological base + ideology & values + .... + accidents of geography and history. Not that everyone else were cowards.

These are not properties of individuals but of societies or civilizations. Individual courage or individual brilliance goes only so far. Let's say you were the most brilliant economist ever, what impact could you have had in the India of 1950 on India's economic prospects? You may have a great work ethic, but unless you are embedded in a population which also values such a work ethic, you on your own are not going to achieve more than an "individual contributor", the multiplier effect of the other people will not be there. A country full of brave men can still be subjugated if the brave men do not unite effectively to the common purpose of resisting subjugation.

We all - ancestors and all - are "complicit" in not having civilizational systems. that could adapt rapidly enough to the challenges posed by foreign invaders - Islamic or European. And we remain "complicit" in that even today the energy and abilities of 130 crores of people is used far less effectively than has been shown to be possible elsewhere. But I think "complicit" is the wrong word here. And what kind of adaption am I talking about? Primarily organizational, because we're talking about a clash of cultures and civilizations. (i.e., yeah, Sir Isaac Newton was great, but the Royal Society of London for Improving Natural Knowledge is what gives the real edge.)

What organizational structures/skills/ways of working does a civilization have in its repertoire to achieve its ends? Whatever you think of it now, the four-anna-membership-fee-open-to-anyone political party that MKG made out of the Congress was an organizational innovation for the India of his time. The various successes of modern India (e.g., ISRO) are due to organizational innovations.
chetak
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by chetak »

ABP News Verified account @ABPNews 19m19 minutes ago

#JammuAndKashmir Will Cease To Be A State From Midnight, Two New UTs To Come Into Existence
UlanBatori
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by UlanBatori »

Is it only 2? I thought the KV would be one all by itself so it can reduce itself to a pakistan. They are still allowed to drag Jammu down with them? :((

This will work only with non-Bissful percentage >> Bissful. Maybe MAD strategy is to build up Jammu fast while Anchar and Soura bask in themselves? But I don't see how to eradicate terrorism without building massive parking lots in those suburbs. Time 4 UBCN to get a map I suppose.

BTW, here is an old map that won't get you sent to FatherInLaw's House under Non-Bailable Ophenj IPC#6666. From USSR days
Last edited by UlanBatori on 30 Oct 2019 22:12, edited 1 time in total.
CRamS
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by CRamS »

I see many ModiJi hating DDM like Indian(Paki) Express, UndY going on overdrive to berate ModiJi over the visit of "far right" EU MPs and denying poor Pappu and his slaves to visit.

I just want to contrast 2 narratives:

1. India is under siege by Islmo fascists nexus between Kasmir Muslims and Pakis. Add to that the colonial scoundrels whose propaganda agsinst India post Aug 5th continues unabted.

2. Indian govt arranges a friendly delegation of EU MPs who correctly see Paki sponsored terror as the main and only issue that bedevils Kashmir, most recent being the slaughter of migrant laborers to scare others from coming in

3. Now granted, there may be shades of grey in between.

Now, what would any self respecting country do when under such an assault as highlighted in #1? Entire nation will rally behind the flag and attempt to do their best giving India's side of the story.

But instead what do our eunuchs in Indian(Pak) express and Undo do? Latch on to some potential impropriety in the arranging the visit of this EU delegation by some defunct NGO and attack ModiJi for "flouting "democratic" norms. And poor Pappu was denied the opportunity for going into the valley and grandstanding against his country's interests.

So this is this state of 'free speech' and 'democracy' in India.

Now someone please tell me why ISI would not be laughing their asses off and using these useful idiotic assets to further their cause?
UlanBatori
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by UlanBatori »

They are all RAA agints, CRAMSji. When ISI approaches them, whammo!
Primus
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Primus »

A_Gupta wrote:
Primus wrote: My quest was to find the answer to this very question you are asking - who let us down? How did a pissant country of a few million manage to rule over a huge and powerful nation like India? Were my great-grandparents and their parents complicit somehow, where they cowards to let this happen?
IMO, this is a mis-framing of the question.

Let's start with the thought that even minus India, the "pissant" nation had a pretty huge global empire. What was behind that? It is a certain organization of society + knowledge base + technological base + ideology & values + .... + accidents of geography and history. Not that everyone else were cowards.

These are not properties of individuals but of societies or civilizations. Individual courage or individual brilliance goes only so far. Let's say you were the most brilliant economist ever, what impact could you have had in the India of 1950 on India's economic prospects? You may have a great work ethic, but unless you are embedded in a population which also values such a work ethic, you on your own are not going to achieve more than an "individual contributor", the multiplier effect of the other people will not be there. A country full of brave men can still be subjugated if the brave men do not unite effectively to the common purpose of resisting subjugation.

We all - ancestors and all - are "complicit" in not having civilizational systems. that could adapt rapidly enough to the challenges posed by foreign invaders - Islamic or European. And we remain "complicit" in that even today the energy and abilities of 130 crores of people is used far less effectively than has been shown to be possible elsewhere. But I think "complicit" is the wrong word here. And what kind of adaption am I talking about? Primarily organizational, because we're talking about a clash of cultures and civilizations. (i.e., yeah, Sir Isaac Newton was great, but the Royal Society of London for Improving Natural Knowledge is what gives the real edge.)

What organizational structures/skills/ways of working does a civilization have in its repertoire to achieve its ends? Whatever you think of it now, the four-anna-membership-fee-open-to-anyone political party that MKG made out of the Congress was an organizational innovation for the India of his time. The various successes of modern India (e.g., ISRO) are due to organizational innovations.
Would love to respond but will be seriously OT here. Suffice it to say this is a much more complicated issue than can be settled with a discussion in a few posts.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Amber G. »

Okay in a few hours .. as title of this dhaga says.. J&K is officially a Union Territory!
Peregrine
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J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Peregrine »

From midnight, J&K will cease to be a state; two new UTs to come into existence - PTI

HIGHLIGHTS

- This is for the first time that a state is converted into two UTs even though there are numerous example of a UT becoming a full state or a state bifurcating into two states.

- The total number of states in the country will be now 28 while the total UTs will go up to seven


NEW DELHI: History will be created on Thursday when Jammu and Kashmir, which has been part of the Union of India since 1947, will cease to be a state and will be bifurcated into two Union Territories.

IAS officers Girish Chandra Murmu and R K Mathur , who have been appointed the new Lieutenant Governors (LG) for the Union territories (UTs) of Jammu and Kashmir, and Ladakh respectively, will be sworn-in at separate functions to be held in Srinagar and Leh on Thursday.

Both Murmu and Mathur will be sworn in by Chief Justice of J&K High Court Gita Mittal.

According to the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Act, 2019, the appointed day for the two UTs is October 31 and these will come into existence in the midnight (Wednesday-Thursday), nearly three months after the announcement in Rajya Sabha

This is for the first time that a state is converted into two UTs even though there are numerous example of a UT becoming a full state or a state bifurcating into two states.

The total number of states in the country will be now 28 while the total UTs will go up to seven.

The Narendra Modi government's decision and subsequent approval of Parliament to abrogate the special status given to Jammu and Kashmir under Article 370 and its bifurcation into two UTs was taken to redraw the map and future of a region at the centre of a protracted militancy movement.

The electoral promise of the BJP to end the special status of Jammu and Kashmir came less than 90 days after the Modi 2.0 government assumed power in May end.

The August 5 decision was taken 72 years after the then ruler of the princely state, Maharaja Hari Singh, executed the Instrument of Accession on October 26, 1947, making it part of the Union of India.

The two UTs will come into existence on the day of the birth anniversary of country's first home minister Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, who is credited for merger of over 560 states into the Union of India.

October 31 is observed as the National Unity Day and both Modi and home minister Amit Shah on Thursday will attend separate functions — in Kevadia (Gujarat) and New Delhi respectively.

According to the Act, the UT of Jammu and Kashmir will have a legislature like Puducherry while Ladakh will be a UT without legislature like Chandigarh and both the UTs will be headed by two separate Lieutenant Governors (LG).

The Centre will be in direct control of the police and the law and order in Jammu and Kashmir from Thursday when it becomes a UT, while the land will be under the elected government there.

The UT of Ladakh will be under the direct control of the central government which will administer the high altitude region through the LG.

While moving the resolution in the Rajya Sabha that Article 370 — which allowed Jammu and Kashmir to have its own Constitution and prohibited outsiders from buying land and property in the state, Shah had said these provisions will no longer be applicable and the central government will restore its statehood at "appropriate time" and after "normalcy" returns.

"The government will not allow the situation to turn into another battle torn Kosovo... It was heaven on earth and will remain so," Shah had said, referring to the decades-old militancy in Jammu and Kashmir.

Soon after the abrogation of the Article 370, several hundred political leaders and separatists were put under detention by the Jammu and Kashmir administration while restrictions were also imposed on movement of people, vehicles, telephone, mobile phones and internet.

While most of the restrictions were removed since then, curb on internet is still continuing and situation in the Kashmir Valley is yet to be termed as complete normal.

Among those put under detention include three former chief ministersFarooq Abdullah, Omar Abdullah and Mehbooba Mufti.

The Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Act, 2019 says the all India Services like the Indian Administrative Service (IAS) and the Indian Police Service (IPS), of J-K cadre will continue to serve in the two succeeding UTs while new recruits of these services will be allocated in the Arunachal, Goa, Mizoram Union Territory (AGMUT) cadre.

The provincial service officers will continue serving in their current positions till a new order is issued by the Lt Governors for the two new UTs of Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh.

The IAS, IPS and other central service officers and the Anti-Corruption Bureau (ACB) will be under the control of the LG and not the elected government of the UT of Jammu and Kashmir.

Mehbooba was the last chief minister of undivided Jammu and Kashmir whose tenure ended in June 2017 when central rule was imposed there after her coalition partner BJP withdrew support. Satya Pal Malik is the last governor whose tenure comes to an end on Wednesday. He has been transferred and appointed as Governor of Goa.

Just a day before Jammu and Kashmir is divided into two UTs, the National Conference on Wednesday made a fervent last minute appeal to the Centre to shelve the plan and maintain the statehood of the "200-year-old state" dubbed as "crown of India".

Cheers Image
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by pankajs »

Congress got its langot in a twist

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1189526376635748353
ANI @ANI

Jammu & Kashmir unit of Congress has issued show cause notice to Pradesh Congress Committee General Secretary Usman Majid, spokesperson Farooq Andrabi & General Secretary Surinder Singh who met with the delegation of European Union (EU) Parliamentarians y'day in Jammu & Kashmir.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by UlanBatori »

AmberG beat me to it (as usual..) :((
But for us oldies.. u cannot imagine what a HUGE thing this is.
ARTICLE 370 IS REALLY GONE!!! LADAKH IS FREED FROM ISLAMIC RULE!
UlanBatori
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by UlanBatori »

Satyapal Malik gets rewarded: as the cold set in Srinagar, he will be lolling on the beaches of Goa with the houris. Scratch that. Maybe with a Nimbu Pani.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by dnivas »

^hahaha UB. Mongolia news service is pretty fast for you
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