The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 02 Nov 2019 22:41

Karthik S wrote:There is no worst case, should court give such an order, I'd expect BJP to bring in an ordinance IMMEDIATELY. They've milked RJB enough for nearly 2 decades. Not only that Kashi and Mathura as well.

IIRC there is a fourth one too. I don't remember which one.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Nov 2019 12:23

Aditya_V wrote:IF BJP was not there and Kar Sevaks did not do the action on 6 Dec 1992 what would have happened, some patience. There is a network which needs to be dismantled first. You always want them to make a Bansai charge and die, while others use guerrilla tactics and survive.

The "them" part is the catch word here. For many Hindutwa-vadis, and the so called "core group" etc, these folks generally are just arm chair generals who wants RSS and BJP to play the role of hired goons. They want BJP and RSS cadre to be the goonda gang who is willing to kill & die. But the way I see things are going the BJP at least have now identified which groups they should be helping, and whose words to be followed.

pankajs wrote:Someone has written a twitter thread on strange behavior of some claiming to speak for Yindu causes that is unthinking in many ways.

Trojan horses are aplenty. I think it was also during KA elections that many such Hindu lovers came up. But the idea was to split Hindu votes, and it was soon out in the open.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 03 Nov 2019 13:38

Sachin wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:IF BJP was not there and Kar Sevaks did not do the action on 6 Dec 1992 what would have happened, some patience. There is a network which needs to be dismantled first. You always want them to make a Bansai charge and die, while others use guerrilla tactics and survive.
The "them" part is the catch word here. For many Hindutwa-vadis, and the so called "core group" etc, these folks generally are just arm chair generals who wants RSS and BJP to play the role of hired goons. They want BJP and RSS cadre to be the goonda gang who is willing to kill & die. But the way I see things are going the BJP at least have now identified which groups they should be helping, and whose words to be followed.

Oh year, tell that to sister of kothari brothers. Also, BJP is bending over backwards in helping one such group that will never vote for it.

BTW as I said before, RJB was a clever ploy by LKA and other BJP leaders at that time. Secular parties hit a jackpot by bringing in mandal commission, BJP can't go against it, so cook up a parallel issue to stay relevant.

Ram mandir has been every single election manifesto since then. And it's there in this year's manifesto as well. You can't promise the same thing for years and expect people not question the govt.

You Sachin sir, you were so critical of BJP and RSS nagpur guys during sabarimala issue, now when hindus are talking about other temple in north India, suddenly you are indulging in name calling.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Nov 2019 15:35

Karthik S wrote:Ram mandir has been every single election manifesto since then. And it's there in this year's manifesto as well. You can't promise the same thing for years and expect people not question the govt.

The bigger question is which people. BJP being a political party will exactly know which people it should listen to and placate. Even during last Lok Sabha election season this forum saw lots of nay-sayers and people who talked about some mysterious Core Hindu voters etc. It was said that BJP was doomed if the demands of this mysterious group was not fulfilled. Ultimately BJP won the elections, and that too at a seat # which Amit Shah had predicted. What I mean to say is that BJP's priorities may not be based on the thoughts of a group (who believes that BJP should dance to their tunes).

You Sachin sir, you were so critical of BJP and RSS nagpur guys during sabarimala issue, now when hindus are talking about other temple in north India, suddenly you are indulging in name calling.

My dear sir, when you say "Hindus" how many Hindus are you actually talking about? I am not being sarcastic here. What is the sample size of people you are talking about? To be frank, I don't trust KL BJP when it comes to Sabari Mala. Kerala cadre of RSS I can still trust them with Sabari Mala; mostly because it is their "faith" which is driving them to protest (and not any great order/command from the RSS HQ @ Nagpur).

Ultimately BJP is a political party who needs to get votes. Nothing is stopping Hindus from pulling back their support to BJP, if their demands on "temple building" is not met. So if you feel that BJP is not doing justice to Hindu cause, nothing is stopping you (or the group of Hindus you mentioned) from voting for the Congress or the CPI(M). In KL, no one trusts the BJP when it comes to Sabari Mala and the last local & bye-elections have proven it. So the same strategy can be applied else where as well. The Hindus in North India can ensure that the BJP gets defeated if the temples in their list are not built

. But that is not happening, am I right?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Nov 2019 15:40

Sachin wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:IF BJP was not there and Kar Sevaks did not do the action on 6 Dec 1992 what would have happened, some patience. There is a network which needs to be dismantled first. You always want them to make a Bansai charge and die, while others use guerrilla tactics and survive.
The "them" part is the catch word here. For many Hindutwa-vadis, and the so called "core group" etc, these folks generally are just arm chair generals who wants RSS and BJP to play the role of hired goons. They want BJP and RSS cadre to be the goonda gang who is willing to kill & die. But the way I see things are going the BJP at least have now identified which groups they should be helping, and whose words to be followed.

pankajs wrote:Someone has written a twitter thread on strange behavior of some claiming to speak for Yindu causes that is unthinking in many ways.
Trojan horses are aplenty. I think it was also during KA elections that many such Hindu lovers came up. But the idea was to split Hindu votes, and it was soon out in the open.

On the first part, I had spotted the trend long before it was commonly accepted wisdom i.e Modi creating his own base to de-risk the fickle support of the uber-yinduvadis. One can see the futility of trying to please this under-yinduvadi base on display everyday on SM. Modi, being the smart guy that he is, quickly moved to neutralize them politically.

On the second part, Some are clearly Trojan but some really are believing uber-yinduvadi and want the aar-paar ki ladai right NOW. Modi not playing ball but busy cultivating an alternative base. Their strange behavior comes from their inability to understand Modi politics and frustration of not being able to bend Modi to their will.

Modi has learned from History but our uber-yinduvadis have not. Mopdi keeps winning and our uber-yinduvadis keep loosing their mind.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 03 Nov 2019 18:07

Anybody who has read about Modi and has followed his career would know that he is, putting it mildly, different.

To him, what really matters is the common man and his welfare, not necessarily what is good for Hindus, but, he is smart enough to know that if he can deliver to the base population a better life overall, they would become his loyal followers, which is what we saw in the recent elections. When you have such a huge mandate, you can in the end work for Hindu causes too. If I was a poor Hindu would I not want 'roti, kapda aur makan' before a temple? Those of us who are not starving, wondering where the next meal is going to come from, find it hard to accept or understand this.

There are battles being fought on multiple fronts, some literally and some are not visible at all. BIF have gathered in large numbers and need to be defeated thoroughly and decisively before the nation can make real progress on other issues like RJB, RTE, correction of our distorted history, restoration of Hindu pride etc.

From my distant perspective, all I can say is that in all my years, I have been never more hopeful for India as I am today.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 03 Nov 2019 18:11

Sachin wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Ram mandir has been every single election manifesto since then. And it's there in this year's manifesto as well. You can't promise the same thing for years and expect people not question the govt.
The bigger question is which people. BJP being a political party will exactly know which people it should listen to and placate. Even during last Lok Sabha election season this forum saw lots of nay-sayers and people who talked about some mysterious Core Hindu voters etc. It was said that BJP was doomed if the demands of this mysterious group was not fulfilled. Ultimately BJP won the elections, and that too at a seat # which Amit Shah had predicted. What I mean to say is that BJP's priorities may not be based on the thoughts of a group (who believes that BJP should dance to their tunes).

OK, so an event and issue started by patriarch of BJP, for which many people gave their lives has become a fringe issue? If it were so fringe and is important only for people on the peripheral, why BJP had to put in their manifesto each time they went for elections? Why was it included in 2019 election manifesto, especially, after BJP had already rule full term just prior and if they thought its just a wish of some "mysterious" group and not that important as you are suggesting here? Afterall, they would have got lot more and better feedback from the ground than you and me on this issue.

If sabarimala can bring out such a passion in a society like KL, you can imagine how much emotions it will invoke in entire NI, that has twice the population of US.

And Sachin sir, didn't expect from you, let's not divide people as BJP hindus and non BJP hindus; core-non core etc. And BJP getting majority is good, it got us 370 NIA etc. That # you talk about is means to an end, not an end in itself. Honestly, didn't you wish and expect GoI to step in during sabarimala issue? It's the same feeling for RJB as well.

BTW this yindutva vadi crowd people keep dissing are more loyal to their ideology and even to BJP than litfest frequenting, beef eating, career BJP guys (as Arun Jaitley called them once) will ever be. If anyone comes "under attack", it is the former crowd that will save them, the later group might talk about it during a litfest.

And since people like to flash election numbers for any issue brought up about the GoI, and to those people who arrogantly and sarcastically say don't vote BJP next time, it's bound to happen isn't it? Do they really think NM and AS will keep fighting elections and winning forever? Even in hypothetical case if they both could, demography is destiny, you can probably guess the probability of getting another 303 in 20 years time given changes in demography we are witnessing. Case in point, since you are from KL, what's the religion wise percentages of new borns past 5 years in KL?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 03 Nov 2019 18:34

Primus wrote:If I was a poor Hindu would I not want 'roti, kapda aur makan' before a temple? Those of us who are not starving, wondering where the next meal is going to come from, find it hard to accept or understand this.

Then why include this in every election manifesto, because as you say everyone in India is starving?

From my distant perspective, all I can say is that in all my years, I have been never more hopeful for India as I am today.

It's better if indics in India feel that way rather than someone who left shores many decades back. Not saying we are not, but still a some distance to go before we can say so.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 03 Nov 2019 18:38

If this keeps up all the gas cylinders will be damaged b4 the verdict comes in.

I tend to believe that building the Mandir will be seen as more of a satisfaction by hundreds of millions of people, than a "NYAY" handout. Vicarious achievement bordering on a guarantee of Moksham. IMO it will also have more of an impact worldwide than the 370scrap, because the practice of building religious symbols using the stones and bricks from the demolished religious symbol of a vanquished, enslaved people is the same as gang rape: a blatant abuse of power.

ONE reversal of that, after demolishing the invaders' monstrosity, would set a huge example. So it IS important. People of Israel know that only too well. People of Persia and Babylonia know it. The Coptic Christians of Egypt and Syria know it. So too the people of Muslim lands invaded by the genocidal "Crusaders". The people of South America (if any are left of the ancient lineages) will rejoice.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Nov 2019 20:49

Compare Modi's action on RJB, TT and Land reform in the first term of 5 years

Land reform - Tried - Failed - Passed/Forgot
Triple Talak - Tried - Failed - Tried again - Done!
Ram Janam B - Silence ---------------- Passed the buck to the courts.

AND yet he won by a greater majority and increased vote share! Now, we have constantly been reminded that Modi's outreach to other communities have fetched zlich! Accepting that as fact, where did the increased vote share come from? Obviously from the Yindu's. But Modi did not make any move on RJB despite it being on the manifesto from the beginning of the party. Did the Yindu just forget to take Modi to task for his inaction on RJB?

Are Yindus in general so laid-back about RJB that they did not even protest Modi/BJP's inaction on that count? I have not done any poll but my guess is that RJB today figures very low on the list of priority of the "generic" Yindu. There must be a survey somewhere. It is good to have but not a vote decider for the "generic" Yindu unless the status quo is changed one way or the other.

1. Now, if the Court ruling favors the Yindus 100%, will the credit go to Modi, given that he sat on it for the last 5+ years? Will Modi claim credit for something he clearly did not do?
2. OTOH, If the Courts ruling goes against the Yindus 100%, will Modi be blamed for it? Will he need to step in and wrest the initiative?
3. And, If the Allahabad ruling is re-affirmed i.e 2/3 for Yindu, will Modi be blamed for it or praised for it? Will he need to step in and wrest the initiative or can he take cover behind the SC and clear the way for the temple to be built on the 2/3 land?

I hope the court does what that bleddy Mudi failed to do.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 03 Nov 2019 20:52

Karthik S wrote:
Primus wrote:If I was a poor Hindu would I not want 'roti, kapda aur makan' before a temple? Those of us who are not starving, wondering where the next meal is going to come from, find it hard to accept or understand this.
Then why include this in every election manifesto, because as you say everyone in India is starving?

From my distant perspective, all I can say is that in all my years, I have been never more hopeful for India as I am today.
It's better if indics in India feel that way rather than someone who left shores many decades back. Not saying we are not, but still a some distance to go before we can say so.

I hear you Karthik Ji. You misjudge me though, I never said or meant 'Everyone in India is starving', but for those that are worried about food on the table, the RJB issue takes second place.

The reason IMHO that the BJP included the temple in every manifesto is because that creates the widest appeal. Every political party has a loyal following that is its 'core' (the word has almost become pejorative sadly) and yet wants to attract a wider voter base, and therefore uses every tool it can, promises everything it can short of going in a direction that would alienate its core supporters. RJB has always been a promise of the Jan Sangh and its successor, the BJP, and it has been one of its main goals, not a secondary one, regardless of how much the opposition spins it as simply as a gimmick to win votes. However, it has never been in a position to see it through, until now.

Believe me, my heart bleeds too, has been bleeding for a long time. My family are Ram Bhakts too, the main display in the little temple at home here is the Ram Darbar. I too feel the pain of the Kothari family. I saw the original smuggled videos of the carnage of that day on VHS tape, long before internet was a reality. My whole life and perspective changed irrevocably on Dec 6, 1992, for that was the day I saw the light, so to speak. That was the day I discovered our own history and trauma, that had been so successfully hidden from us for all those years.

I also agree with UB Ji, that this is a bellweather case to beat all others before it. Will send shock waves through the world. Which is why it has taken forever to bring it to a verdict. But think for a moment, do you honestly believe any other government could have brought it to this stage? Even the BJP, I submit humbly did not have the confidence or the mandate to do so in the first term. I will go so far as to say that without Yogi, it would still be impossible, for the fallout from this in UP especially will be huge and only Yogi has the cojones to handle it. The next few weeks and months will be tumultuous and yet, I have full confidence in the ability of the GOI of today to be able to handle it.

And yes, I left the shores of India long ago, but I still follow what happens in Desh avidly, else I would not be writing this.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 03 Nov 2019 22:45

Temple at birthplace of maryaada purushottam Shri Ram with Sita ki rasoi and hanuman ka chabutara isn't some arbitrary place of worship where people gather to scheme on becoming majority and then yell from loudspeaker to leave behind women of minorities.

Guys take a chill pill and stop blaming and self flaglations. Shows how successful the crooks are in flaming self hatred within hindoo-phobia.

that this is a bellweather case to beat all others before it. Will send shock waves through the world.

How's that problem of Hindu? Except to accept all the self indignation and overlook violence for short term benefits in politicking. I think the goi should bring a law in parliament that no party can offer more than 5 year benefits for land/religious grant for vote bank politics; and let people see openly who got votes for what cost to society.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 03 Nov 2019 23:17

Primus ji, you are much older than me, please no 'ji' for me. My gods, temples and holy places have been desecrated enough last 1000 years and continue to endure today across India. Just want to say I hope we see a solution for this in the near future.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 04 Nov 2019 01:30

While

pankajs wrote:I hope the court does what that bleddy Mudi failed to do.

What if the verdict goes against the Yindus or the Allahabad verdict is re-affirmed?

https://www.news18.com/news/india/sc-ve ... 67655.html
Supreme Court Verdict on Ayodhya Land Dispute Should be [Accepted Wholeheartedly by Everyone: RSS

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/everyon ... th-2124848
Everyone Should Respect Supreme Court Verdict In Ayodhya Case: Yogi Adityanath

Does the above mean the the RSS/BJP/Modi will hide behind the SC verdict and do nothing except file a review petition that will again get bogged down? If such a situation does come to pass will the yinduvadi voters give Modi/BJP a free pass as it has done in previous years?

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 04 Nov 2019 15:03

It means that they think Hindu side will win. Further, there shall always be a "official" position.

I am confident we will win gurus. Rest is in the hands of Mahadev.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 04 Nov 2019 18:04

Karthik S wrote:Primus ji, you are much older than me, please no 'ji' for me. My gods, temples and holy places have been desecrated enough last 1000 years and continue to endure today across India. Just want to say I hope we see a solution for this in the near future.

Yes, without a doubt, and the sad part of this tale is the fact that we did not even know how badly our forefathers suffered at the hands of the swordsmen of Islam. There was a general impression that Hindu temples were destroyed and that Hindus were defeated, but the extent to which this happened, the zeal with which this was done, the extreme cruelty of the invaders and their descendants - this was all kept from us through selective disinformation.

As I said, for the first time in my life I am hopeful that change is happening. This is not going to be easy in any way and will take more than the remainder of my life, but I am confident that things have gathered enough momentum for it to become self-perpetuating. Modi Ji needs one more term in office, as does the Yogi.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 04 Nov 2019 18:28

vishvak wrote:Temple at birthplace of maryaada purushottam Shri Ram with Sita ki rasoi and hanuman ka chabutara isn't some arbitrary place of worship where people gather to scheme on becoming majority and then yell from loudspeaker to leave behind women of minorities.

Guys take a chill pill and stop blaming and self flaglations. Shows how successful the crooks are in flaming self hatred within hindoo-phobia.
that this is a bellweather case to beat all others before it. Will send shock waves through the world.
How's that problem of Hindu? Except to accept all the self indignation and overlook violence for short term benefits in politicking. I think the goi should bring a law in parliament that no party can offer more than 5 year benefits for land/religious grant for vote bank politics; and let people see openly who got votes for what cost to society.

I think you've misunderstood my intent in the post. There is no self-flagellation or self-hatred. Just a recognition of our own lapses in understanding and our own ignorance for a long period of time.

I believe the RJB verdict will indeed be a seminal event. This has never happened before. And no, it is not the problem of the Hindu, rather of the 'other side'. International recognition (if it happens) will pave the way within India and outside India for the 'pagans' to wake up and reclaim their ancestral history for the first time in human memory.

I am not content to stop with RJB, but would like all such places to be returned, including the Sidhpur temple * that lies buried under the mosque on top of the hill. Very few people know about it as it was only discovered in 1981 or so, but it is one of the many such magnificent temples that have been forgotten.

* The famous 12th century Rudra Mahalya temple, said to be one of the biggest of its time.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 04 Nov 2019 18:41

Not 2 mention "St.Thomas Mount" containing the Young Skeleton of St. Tom ji.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 04 Nov 2019 20:23

^
Wonder who/what else lies buried with the young Tom.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 04 Nov 2019 21:07

^^ primus. Great posts filled with kindness and understanding

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 05 Nov 2019 01:23

Some good posts here.. a few comments.

Ram mandir has been every single election manifesto since then. And it's there in this year's manifesto as well. You can't promise the same thing for years and expect people not question the govt.

To be fair, the first time I heard Modi about the "temple" , he said something to the effect : " His higher/immediate priority is building "shauchalaya's" (toilets). .. This was around 2014 (before election and before "swachh Bharat abhiyan"

His first speech in parliament (which I listened and honestly very impressed) talked about building toilets in every school within a year or so .. He started the Swachh Bharat Abhiyan..

His first speech in UN as a PM did not mention any thing about "temple".. and when he spoke in front of 60,000 people in Central Park in USA - He was introduced as a "PM who is NOT afraid to talk about "loo"..He talked about "Building Toilets" and encouraging every one to help him in his mission. (Link: <here or do google>

This has been consistent .. even in Jan 2019 in his 95 minute interview he clearly said, when asked about "temple" .. he said:
"

...an ordinance to build a Ram Mandir would arise only after the Supreme Court, which is hearing the matter, delivers its verdict.

Meanwhile he has delivered, not only on swachh Bharat but also on *many* bold issues like "Triple Talak" , Article 370, handling terror ... bolder than any previous administration... Not afraid of "psudo-seculars".."liberals".."islamists".. ityadi..

Modi is not likely to be black-mailed by any group, and he is not likely to play games just to please one group if he does not think it is good for the nation.

So I agree with statements like:

Modi has learned from History but our uber-yinduvadis have not. Mopdi keeps winning and our uber-yinduvadis keep loosing their mind.

or

..all I can say is that in all my years, I have been never more hopeful for India as I am today.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Nov 2019 08:42

Many of these Uber Hindutvadis are Trojan horses. For Nationalists they BJP and INC same same, wheres for anti National gang it is BJP evil INC good. Net net BJP should always lose ten they will curse BJP only.

BJP wants to build Ram temple so do almost BJP supporters, but understand that unfortunately the network the international backers of INC Communists have built up, major business within India, NGO, beauracary, media, Trade controllers, judicial control, education. How easily they shut down India's copper production to cause disruption in our electronics and Automotive sector. Who were the Political parties and NGOs who did this? Against such a background we have to wade carefully and get the job done. And if it gets done not to dismiss it as nothing.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 05 Nov 2019 09:50

Primus wrote:I am not content to stop with RJB, but would like all such places to be returned, including the Sidhpur temple * that lies buried under the mosque on top of the hill. Very few people know about it as it was only discovered in 1981 or so, but it is one of the many such magnificent temples that have been forgotten.

* The famous 12th century Rudra Mahalya temple, said to be one of the biggest of its time.

+108

I am not content with anything less than all the 40K Temples being reclaimed from Muslims. So, I have an issue with people like SuSwamy who want to stop at 3. He does not speak for me nor for the 100s of millions of Hindus slaughtered by Islamic fanatics.

And usually, when I say this, the common refrain from my friends is "be practical". That's missing the whole point. The whole point is to march towards a goal, even if it takes a 1000 years to achieve it. What is dar-ul-islam anyway? Is it practical? Yet, millions of Muslims are willing to kill and die for it. Its their North Star.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 05 Nov 2019 10:27

pankajs wrote:
Sachin wrote: The "them" part is the catch word here. For many Hindutwa-vadis, and the so called "core group" etc, these folks generally are just arm chair generals who wants RSS and BJP to play the role of hired goons. They want BJP and RSS cadre to be the goonda gang who is willing to kill & die. But the way I see things are going the BJP at least have now identified which groups they should be helping, and whose words to be followed.

Trojan horses are aplenty. I think it was also during KA elections that many such Hindu lovers came up. But the idea was to split Hindu votes, and it was soon out in the open.
On the first part, I had spotted the trend long before it was commonly accepted wisdom i.e Modi creating his own base to de-risk the fickle support of the uber-yinduvadis. One can see the futility of trying to please this under-yinduvadi base on display everyday on SM. Modi, being the smart guy that he is, quickly moved to neutralize them politically.

On the second part, Some are clearly Trojan but some really are believing uber-yinduvadi and want the aar-paar ki ladai right NOW. Modi not playing ball but busy cultivating an alternative base. Their strange behavior comes from their inability to understand Modi politics and frustration of not being able to bend Modi to their will.

Modi has learned from History but our uber-yinduvadis have not. Mopdi keeps winning and our uber-yinduvadis keep loosing their mind.

TBH though it seemed like the man couldn't win no matter what he did. The Uber types never thought he went far enough and the moderates often thought he went too far. Kudos to him and his party for navigating through this minefield.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 05 Nov 2019 10:42

pankajs wrote:^^
Absolutely.

Between a choice of getting nothing done vs getting something done, the choice always has to be to get something done. Someone has written a twitter thread on strange behavior of some claiming to speak for Yindu causes that is unthinking in many ways. Will try to locate and post it here.

I think this is the endgame. Something is better than nothing. TBH while one would like to have everything, this rarely happens in life. Maybe slowly more will happen but for now rjb will be a massive victory.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 05 Nov 2019 13:07

Prem Kumar wrote:I am not content with anything less than all the 40K Temples being reclaimed from Muslims. So, I have an issue with people like SuSwamy who want to stop at 3.

And how do you plan to achieve this goal?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 05 Nov 2019 15:01

Ritu (सत्यसाधक) #EqualRightsForHindus @RituRathaur
200 Tribals Hindus converted to Christianity in Gujarat village right under the nose of almost 20 yr old
@BJP4India
state govt
@vijayrupanibjp
ji what r u doing to STOP conversions?
Don't u have any cultural responsibility?
@AmitShah @narendramodi

https://www.divyabhaskar.co.in/amp/madh ... ssion=true

Hope these poor tribals get toilets soon by modi.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Nov 2019 15:26

Karthik S wrote:
Ritu (सत्यसाधक) #EqualRightsForHindus @RituRathaur
200 Tribals Hindus converted to Christianity in Gujarat village right under the nose of almost 20 yr old
@BJP4India
state govt
@vijayrupanibjp
ji what r u doing to STOP conversions?
Don't u have any cultural responsibility?
@AmitShah @narendramodi
https://www.divyabhaskar.co.in/amp/madh ... ssion=true

Hope these poor tribals get toilets soon by modi.

Conversion is done through money, control of hospitals education sector- BJP Govt has cracked on FCRA- social orgs try thier best figthing this network. There is no democratic means these can be stopped in the short term. They have ideological support from rich countries and deep pockets with many years of loot, secular leaders know these people will vote for them. The only way is too improve life , improve the economy tremendously. Why blame BJP alone, Indian society is failing. The long term way is improve our economy through hi tech defense manufacturing and then having MIC and energy security. Then through social security it and improving their lives, once people are educated properly, have no real dependency then conversions stop as their no benefit to convert.

Can you tell what is another solution is there to stop these conversions or say how party in TN like DMK-INC-CPI combine or YSRCP party in Andhra is going to stop conversions.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 05 Nov 2019 15:51

What relation does the last few post have to the topic? None.

And while we are at it,

Aditya_V wrote:Conversion is done through money, control of hospitals education sector- BJP Govt has cracked on FCRA- social orgs try thier best figthing this network. There is no democratic means these can be stopped in the short term. They have ideological support from rich countries and deep pockets with many years of loot, secular leaders know these people will vote for them. The only way is too improve life , improve the economy tremendously. Why blame BJP alone, Indian society is failing. The long term way is improve our economy through hi tech defense manufacturing and then having MIC and energy security. Then through social security it and improving their lives, once people are educated properly, have no real dependency then conversions stop as their no benefit to convert.

Can you tell what is another solution is there to stop these conversions or say how party in TN like DMK-INC-CPI combine or YSRCP party in Andhra is going to stop conversions.

Agree withe first para.

That bleddy Mudi has to feed 1.3 billion - (Converts) with his own hands and wipe their asses himself every single time while the rest will sit on their asses and fart loudly on 60K occupies/demolished temples. That is the be all and end all of our uber-yinduvadi brain wave.

If only Mudi had steamrolled all opposition and started RJB Mandir construction on the first day of assuming power all our woes would have disappeared and Ram rajya would have prevailed and we would have turned into a 100% yindu country. Mudi does not have the intelligence of our uber-yinduvadis.

No wonder Modi keeps winning while our uber-yinduvadis keep loosing their mind.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 05 Nov 2019 16:12

Aditya_V wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
https://www.divyabhaskar.co.in/amp/madh ... ssion=true

Hope these poor tribals get toilets soon by modi.
Conversion is done through money, control of hospitals education sector- BJP Govt has cracked on FCRA- social orgs try thier best figthing this network. There is no democratic means these can be stopped in the short term. They have ideological support from rich countries and deep pockets with many years of loot, secular leaders know these people will vote for them. The only way is too improve life , improve the economy tremendously. Why blame BJP alone, Indian society is failing. The long term way is improve our economy through hi tech defense manufacturing and then having MIC and energy security. Then through social security it and improving their lives, once people are educated properly, have no real dependency then conversions stop as their no benefit to convert.

Can you tell what is another solution is there to stop these conversions or say how party in TN like DMK-INC-CPI combine or YSRCP party in Andhra is going to stop conversions.

Well, BJP ruled GJ for 2 decades, Modi boasted about GJ model during 2014 elections. So if 2 decades of SSSV, toilets are not sufficient to protect indigenous people from falling prey to EJs in a better off state like GJ, how do you expect just SSSV is enough for country. My point is, just looking at economy, toilets etc isn't sufficient. And FCRA ban is a joke, don't even mention it. Nothing has stopped. BTW Assam, which is a BJP ruled state, recently arrested a vaishnavaite saint who was opposing EJ activities.

>> There is no democratic means these can be stopped in the short term.

Boss, if reqd it can easily be stopped, are anti-superstition, fraud. So many laws can't be thought of if you follow their events. If govt wants, it can handle it.

YOU TELL ME if end result of losing indics to EJs and Jihadis is same regardless of the govt, how does it matter if it's BJP, DMK, INC. So this talk about let modi work on economy while turning a blind eye to all this isn't a sound strategy or thought.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Nov 2019 16:25

Ratio has clearly stopped than what it was before 2014, can you put a complete full stop not possible

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 06 Nov 2019 00:09

Sachin wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:I am not content with anything less than all the 40K Temples being reclaimed from Muslims. So, I have an issue with people like SuSwamy who want to stop at 3.
And how do you plan to achieve this goal?

Firstly, by raising awareness of its reality. There are already #ReclaimTemples Twitter handles and websites. Let it work its way. Ayodhya will be the first milestone.

Interestingly, your question is a classic style of objection-raising, which we Hindus seem to relish in. This comes in a couple of flavors:

1) When an ambitious goal or a bitter problem is stated, point to the fact that there are no "immediate, obvious answers" and therefore claim that the goal itself is not worthy or pursuing. Or go into denial because the problem is not easy to solve

2) Ask the person who points to the goal/problem how "he" plans to solve it

I don't feel obligated to provide a solution, let alone an easy one. There are enough smart people on BRF and the larger Hindu community to formulate solutions. The awareness of the problem needs to happen first. Unambiguously. Hindus must sit very, very uncomfortably with these facts for extended periods of time. Let the natural process of getting rid of the discomfort come about in the form of solutions.

Currently, our approach to relieve discomfort is:
a) Denial
b) Shoot the messenger
c) Shrug and say "not practical"

Kaivalya · Post by **Kaivalya** » 06 Nov 2019 01:17

Prem Kumar wrote:
Sachin wrote: And how do you plan to achieve this goal?
Firstly, by raising awareness of its reality. There are already #ReclaimTemples Twitter handles and websites. Let it work its way. Ayodhya will be the first milestone.

Interestingly, your question is a classic style of objection-raising, which we Hindus seem to relish in. This comes in a couple of flavors:

1) When an ambitious goal or a bitter problem is stated, point to the fact that there are no "immediate, obvious answers" and therefore claim that the goal itself is not worthy or pursuing. Or go into denial because the problem is not easy to solve

2) Ask the person who points to the goal/problem how "he" plans to solve it

I don't feel obligated to provide a solution, let alone an easy one. There are enough smart people on BRF and the larger Hindu community to formulate solutions. The awareness of the problem needs to happen first. Unambiguously. Hindus must sit very, very uncomfortably with these facts for extended periods of time. Let the natural process of getting rid of the discomfort come about in the form of solutions.

Currently, our approach to relieve discomfort is:
a) Denial
b) Shoot the messenger
c) Shrug and say "not practical"

I think a first good step will be to collect details of all the land/assets owned by temples that have been given to political masters for a pittance in rent/usage. Once this is identified, rightful board's can be formed to manage the funds which will start replenishing other dharmic activities for the local community like

1. Invest in temple maintenance
2. Invest in communities as a micro loan provider
3. Slow the conversion machinery
4. Invest in education of the communities
5. Invest in capital intensive work that are held up because of lack of funds
....work on releasing more temple assets. If a waqf board can manage assets - Hindus should create a loosely federated structure with authority and mission from a few larger mutts, gurus atleast just to reclaim the assets.

Typical responses to add to the above : we all know money is looted - who will do it. This federated structure needs to be funded to be big enough to start a virtuous cycle.The reason I say unlock temple assets is because I believe that will eventually unlock more temples...

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 06 Nov 2019 10:40

First things first - let hindu temples be administered by hindus and not govt babus of other religions in the name of secularism. Otherwise, do the same for institutions of other religions - lets have secular crowd in their boards and trusts as well.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 07 Nov 2019 04:51

Ayodhya on tenterhooks: Some shift out, others stocking up on ration

- With the temple verdict expected any day now, some are hoarding food and essentials, while others have begun shifting women and children out to places they feel are safe

- Some are even cancelling weddings or moving venues outside the district

AYODHYA: In Ayodhya these days, the air is thick with apprehension and anxiety. With the temple verdict expected any day now, the town’s residents are making whatever preparations they can — some are hoarding food and essentials, while others have quietly begun shifting women and children out to places they feel are safe.

Some are even cancelling weddings or moving venues outside the district. A middle-aged tailor in Syedwada, a neighbourhood with a considerable number of Muslim families living alongside temples and Hindu households, said, “They (locals residents) talk among themselves and say that Syedwada will be targeted this time. It is worrisome.

The man, who didn’t want to give out his name, added, “They are saying there will be trouble if the judgment is not in favour of the Ram temple. What will we do in such a situation if not send our families away?” Many in the community had done the same when in November last year VHP and Shiv Sena members descended on the town.

Some distance away, Ghanshyam Gupta, whose family has been selling ladoos outside the famous Hanuman Garhi temple for three generations, said, “We have made suitable arrangements and are stocking rice and lentils at home.” Umar Farooq, a litigant in the Ramjanmabhoomi - Babri Masjid dispute, said he’s seen it all — the violence in 1990, the demolition of Babri Masjid in 1992 and the arson that followed, the tension around the high court judgment of 2010, and when the Shiv Sena marched into Ayodhya in November last year.

“Through all this, Ayodhya residents never had problems with one another. Trouble starts when a mob comes from outside. That’s when there is chaos for us,” he added. The district administration, meanwhile, is holding peace gatherings with community leaders and is even forming WhatsApp groups for real-time communication and deployment of additional forces in the event of an emergency.

District magistrate Anuj K Jha told TOI that a number of meetings in October and November with Hindu mahants and Muslim imams had been held to address worries and give assurances of safety. “We have assured Muslims that a survey of all sensitive areas, including minority-dominant ones and those with mixed populations, has already been done and we will be deploying forces ahead of the verdict. There is no need for people to panic. Our focus is peace and protection in the whole of Ayodhya,” Jha said.

However, apprehension is still running deep. In October, the Muslim community’s nervousness became apparent when a meeting was called at the house of Haji Mahboob, another litigant in the dispute, to get their concerns addressed.

“Security was beefed up in Ayodhya in 2010 when the high court was to pronounce a judgment. Things will be fine if there is a similar bandobast in place. But people are scared. Many haven’t been able to forget 1992.”

He has a point. Syed Khalique Ahmed’s son was to get married in December. But feeling that the situation is “not conducive” for a celebration, Ahmed not just changed the venue of the wedding from Faizabad to Lucknow but also got his son married in early November itself. Hotel owners in Ayodhya echoed Ahmed’s sentiment.

Pawan Singh, manager of the Birla Dharmashala, meters away from Hanuman Garhi, said, “People have cancelled bookings for venues and rooms, not just for November and December but until February next year. Whoever is saying normal life in Ayodhya has not been disrupted is not telling the truth.”

Cheers

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 08 Nov 2019 22:18

Verdict tomorrow 10am IST. RAF and other CAPF bring moved in and around Ayodhya.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 08 Nov 2019 22:22

जय श्री राम

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 08 Nov 2019 22:54

mmasand wrote:Verdict tomorrow 10am IST. RAF and other CAPF bring moved in and around Ayodhya.

They did 370 so now is time to throw temple under the bus, May be like Sabarimala for Triple Talak.
Colonial courts and Governments want to look secular and equalize things - each group win or lose some political pearls.

Hindus will lose only

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 08 Nov 2019 22:55

Even i wish they construct ram mandir. But the question is will our secular court become communal?

Btw do u guys remember Modi and CIJ recently had a long chat in CIJ's office alone. Wonder what it might be.

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 08 Nov 2019 22:57

ShyamSP wrote: Hindus will lose only

Missing dilbu .