2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 01 Dec 2019 08:11

Rony wrote:
Karan M wrote:He is right in a way. DS was pushing a syncretic form of Islam that had the potential to be very popular and may have provided a good push back vs the extreme Sunni forms currently prevalent.
The Berelvi form of Islam which is prevalent in Indian subcontinent is considered as Liberal Islam compared to the Deobandi which is a later addition. Many Indian muslims were also converted under Sufi influence but after a generation or two, the new generation see them as shirk and want to follow "pure" Islam and want to purge their religion of the shirk with the result that now even Barelvis pretty much resemble the Deobandis for the most part.Even if DS had won over Aurangazeb, there is no guarantee his descendants would have followed his teachings. Aurangzeb himself is a descendant of "liberal" Akbar.

DS's version of Islam was far far more "liberal" than the Barelvi types in the conventional sense with him reading H scriptures and trying to mix and match that with Islamic readings. Would they have lost influence over time with the new gen petrodollar push and the rise of the deobandi school, sure. But at least you'd have a huge chunk of Indian M's more liberal and in tune with some of their Hindu peers. At least, that's my guess.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 01 Dec 2019 08:14

Really like Sadhvi Pragya's combativeness. This shows Modi and co are not overtaken by p-secitis as their critics keep alleging. First, they had her apologize etc to ensure the p-sec media lapdogs of the INC did not make the whole issue even bigger. Then, they removed her from the Std committee post to ensure "action was taken". Third, she gets to go on the offensive and take on the INC and its chamchas. Good. They can't torture her and then use her as a scapegoat for their rubbish either, merely because she exercised the very FOE they keep pretending to support (but don't).

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Dec 2019 08:46

Expect an anti India onslaught and tirade from niazi and his beleaguered mentor.

For anything going awry in pukiland, we are their natural fall guys.

RSS and Modi may feature prominently in this tirade.

Imran and Bajwa on sticky wicket

Imran and Bajwa on sticky wicket

THE SUNDAY GUARDIAN
November 30, 2019, 6:19 PM

Something very curious is going on in India’s immediate neighbourhood—across its western borders to be specific. The judiciary in Pakistan seems to have discovered the spine to take on the chief of the Pakistan army, something unthinkable until recently. First the Supreme Court suspended the three-year extension given to General Qamar Javed Bajwa by the government of Prime Minister Imran Khan Niazi, through an interim order and later, even while allowing Bajwa an extension of six months, the court issued a stern warning to the government about legislating on the rules and procedures of appointing the army chief, including giving him an extension.

Considering Pakistan is a country where army chiefs extend their tenures at their own will and considering, earlier, a PPP government had given an extension to then General Ashfaq Kayani without anyone protesting, no wonder the Supreme Court’s sudden zealousness is being described by the Pakistani media as an instance of “unprecedented assertion”. The question is if this sudden display of bravado would have been possible without the backing of the army in a country where the reins of actual power are in the hands of the military establishment. Seemingly, a revolt is brewing in the upper echelons of the Pakistan army over the extension given to Bajwa.

Reports are that Bajwa’s extension has destroyed the career progressions of over 15 lieutenant generals, who will have to retire before Bajwa retires in three years’ time. Pakistan may have an army chief, but the chief is not the army. At best he is the first among equals. Rawalpindi GHQ is about a group of generals, the corps commanders, who control everything and select the army chief from amongst themselves.

That there is unrest among the corps commanders becomes obvious from the way Bajwa made certain appointments, thus trying to eliminate all possibilities of dissent against his extension. The most prominent of such moves was the supersession of the senior-most officer after Bajwa, Lt Gen Sarfraz Sattar, by Gen Nadeem Raza as Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, the second most important post after the army chief. Sattar was apparently then COAS Raheel Sharif’s choice to become army chief in 2019, following the natural sequence of promotions. Sattar had a year of service left but retired once he was superseded. And this is just one instance. Bajwa has carried out a major reshuffle, obviously in an attempt to surround himself with loyalists who would strengthen his hands if he continues for three more years as army chief.

This being the situation, it is but natural that questions will be raised about who added the steel to the judiciary’s spine. In fact, the judiciary’s arrow is targeted not just at Bajwa but also at Imran Khan Niazi, who, anyway is in dire straits and is proving to be incapable of governing his country.

As the economy spirals out of his control, Niazi’s reliance on the army increases to run Pakistan, or rather to stop himself from running it aground. As people’s resentment rises against his government, Niazi is getting increasingly dependent on Bajwa to ensure that he is able to retain his chair. This also has to be seen in the context of reports that the army chief is now personally trying to tackle the economic mess that the country has landed in.

As observers in Pakistan have been pointing out, their country is witnessing a “diarchy of power”, where “personal relationship”—some sort of a quid pro quo arrangement—is ensuring the continuance of not just Imran Khan Niazi, but also the extension of Gen Bajwa’s “rule”.

This sudden rebellion against both Imran Khan and Bajwa has to be seen in the context of another player, whose name is not being mentioned but who has Pakistan confined in a straitjacket—China.

There is speculation that China, which has a major Uyghur problem in its hands and in typical style is being heavy-handed in tackling it, is unhappy with the push being given by Niazi and Bajwa to align Pakistan’s interests with that of Turkey.

The Islamic Caliphate idea, with Turkey as the head, which is being pushed by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, has found the most ardent backers in Pakistan and in Malaysia under Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad. However, it is not helping the Pakistani duo’s case that Turkey may have banned the Turkic Uyghurs’ East

Turkistan Islamic Movement (now known as Turkistan Islamic Party/Movement) operating in China’s Xinjiang province as a terrorist organisation, but reports are that “unofficial” support to the “jihadist” organisation still continues.

Given the present circumstances, Niazi and Bajwa may have gone too far when it comes to Turkey, a fact that has angered China.

Whatever be the case, the future is looking increasingly uncertain for both Imran Khan Niazi and General Qamar Javed Bajwa. There cannot be a military coup in Pakistan for fear of American sanctions, but the world should not be surprised if the duo’s downfall comes through a judicial coup, sooner or later, just the way it happened with Nawaz Sharif.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 01 Dec 2019 08:56

Very good article. But Sunday Guardian has called the PM Imran Khan Niazi, not Dimran. Shows that the newspaper has still much to learn about Pak lands.
Gautam

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 01 Dec 2019 09:14

Karan M wrote: DS's version of Islam was far far more "liberal" than the Barelvi types in the conventional sense with him reading H scriptures and trying to mix and match that with Islamic readings.

Long before DS, Akbar tried similar syncretism with his Din-i Ilahi. "Liberal" Sufi Ahmad Sirhindi called it blasphemy to Islam with the result that it died a natural death. If a person like Akbar who was already an emperor could not make it successful, DS wouldn't have fared any better even if he had become a emperor.

Sikhism was supposed to be a another similar syncretism exercise to bring some kind of syncretic unity between Hindus and Muslims. It worked with Hindus and Hindus only. All the Sikh gurus, all or most of the original Sikh disciplines are all Hindus. There was never any significant Muslims who joined Sikhism willingly like Hindus and became Sikhs.

Shiridi Sai Baba is another example. He propounded "Eshwar Allah sab ek" . Hindus fell for it and became his disciples and built big big temples for him. But no significant amount of Muslims became his worshipers and worship him.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 01 Dec 2019 09:53

Well Akbar was well advanced by the time he started this Deen Ilahi stuff. Shukoh had an entire era in front of him. Who knows, he might have had a significant group of muslims codify his teachings. Anyways, all a theoretical what if only, but the basic point was the RSS guy wasn't wrong in what he said, from his POV.

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 01 Dec 2019 10:08

ANI@ANI
RSS joint general secretary Dr Krishna Gopal at an event in Delhi yesterday: I can say with confidence that if Dara Shikoh had ruled India then Islam would have flourished in the country & Hindus would have also understood Islam better.

Is he regretting that Islam did not flourish in the country? Do Muslims leaders too wish for similar flourishing of Hinduism in Indian subcontinent?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Dec 2019 10:49

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 01 Dec 2019 11:31

https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/opin ... cs-absence
Cool Breeze: Politics of Absence
PRIYA SAHGAL, November 30, 2019.
Politics of Absence
Why did both Sonia Gandhi and Rahul boycott the Maharashtra swearing-in ceremony? Clearly, both have reservations about tying up with the hardline Hindutva outfit, Shiv Sena. In Sonia’s case this line of thought is consistent because it was during her watch that the party went in for an obvious pro minority tilt. However, during Rahul’s term as party chief there was a course correction which saw him undertake a fair amount of temple tourism and reiterate his Hindu identity. However, Rahul too chose to skip sharing the stage with Uddhav Thackeray, ostensibly for fear it would cut into his “secular” image. Which makes one wonder if there will be yet another re-launch of Brand Rahul with some new packaging. Of all the Congress Chief Ministers who were invited only Kamal Nath made it to the venue. One reason for this could be that he enjoys a close rapport with NCP chief Sharad Pawar. The NCP also reciprocated by giving him a seat right next to Pawar on the dais. But one wonders why other Congress CMs chose not to attend.
.......
Gautam

Vidur · Post by **Vidur** » 01 Dec 2019 12:49

sanjayc wrote:
ANI@ANI
RSS joint general secretary Dr Krishna Gopal at an event in Delhi yesterday: I can say with confidence that if Dara Shikoh had ruled India then Islam would have flourished in the country & Hindus would have also understood Islam better.
Is he regretting that Islam did not flourish in the country? Do Muslims leaders too wish for similar flourishing of Hinduism in Indian subcontinent?

No. Muslims leaders and muslims practitioners have clarity of thought, purpose and action.

alexis · Post by **alexis** » 01 Dec 2019 12:54

ricky_v wrote:Inhabitants of tier 1 cities are pure cancer; they have the correct amount of social media cluelessness, impotent rage venting, inexact event recollection, stand up comic cum and an inexplicable itch to park their asholes in every business big or small.

Wow... Why are all the people moving to Tier 1 cities, then?

Vidur · Post by **Vidur** » 01 Dec 2019 13:00

Am taking the liberty of being rather controversial but like to canvass this group on their thoughts on future of India in next 20-50 years.

Muslim population in India is about 16-18 %. Christian is about 7-8 %. Both these religions are converting religions and one part of their raison d etre is to convert all other religions. We know this well from world history. Is it possible to have a stable country with such a demographic ?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 01 Dec 2019 13:10

No it's not possible. For some reason, people from and in RSS think SSSV is enough, given their stance at some issues, indics really need to come up with a new political party that's main aim along with others should be safeguarding indic way of life. Or else, we are heading for partition or civil war again, it will be quite ironic if it happens in 2047, 100 years after first partition.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 01 Dec 2019 13:35

sanjayc wrote:
ANI@ANI
RSS joint general secretary Dr Krishna Gopal at an event in Delhi yesterday: I can say with confidence that if Dara Shikoh had ruled India then Islam would have flourished in the country & Hindus would have also understood Islam better.
Is he regretting that Islam did not flourish in the country? Do Muslims leaders too wish for similar flourishing of Hinduism in Indian subcontinent?

Easy Google search:
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... pal/487244

Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) joint general secretary Dr Krishna Gopal has said that if Dara Shikoh had ruled India in place of Aurangzeb then Islam would have flourished in the country and Hindus would have also understood Islam better.

Calling Mughal prince Dara Shikoh, the eldest son of Mughal emperor Shah Jahan, an epitome of Indianness, the senior RSS functionary said that he was a 'real Hindustani' who never compromised with Islam and always tried to unite the society.

Gopal gave this statement while speaking at a symposium on 'Dara Shikoh: A hero of the Indian syncretist traditions'.

He further urged the Muslim community to follow Dara Shikoh's legacy rather complaining that there was an atmosphere of fear in the country.

"Dara was a prince, who translated Upnishads into Persian. He discussed and debated it with intellectuals. He knew the God was only one and there were different faiths to find him. Dara was never divisive. He understood the assimilative power of society and tried to establish compatibility while remaining a true Muslim," news agency ANI quoted Gopal as saying.

Gopal further said Shah Jahan knew about Shikoh’s capability and prepared ground for his succession. However, his only mistake was that he translated Upanishads to Persian, which was unacceptable to the fundamentalists.

Gopal also said that Dara Shikoh was a man of the Indian syncretist tradition who posed a direct threat to Aurangzeb who saw him as a threat to Islam.

Rejecting the statement that Muslims in India are living in an atmosphere of fear, the senior RSS functionary said that there are around 50,000 Parsis, some 45 lakh Jains and some 80 lakh followers of Buddhism who never said they are in fear then why do Muslims, who are around 16-17 crore, say they are living in an atmosphere of fear.

“They are in fear despite ruling the country for 600 years. Why don't you come out from this fear?” he said.

Union Minister Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi who was also present at the event hailed Dara Shikoh as an identity of nationalism adding that he was a victim of the brutality of fanatics who were directly influenced by Aurangzeb's thinking.

Shah Jahan had designated Dara with the title Padshahzada-i-Buzurg Martaba (Prince of High Rank) and wanted to anoint him as his successor. However, in the war of succession which started after Shah Jahan's illness, Dara was defeated by his younger brother Aurangzeb and was executed in 1659 after being declared a threat to the public peace apart from being called a “heretic”.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 01 Dec 2019 14:47

Karan M wrote:Well Akbar was well advanced by the time he started this Deen Ilahi stuff. Shukoh had an entire era in front of him. Who knows, he might have had a significant group of muslims codify his teachings. Anyways, all a theoretical what if only, but the basic point was the RSS guy wasn't wrong in what he said, from his POV.

We could argue brilliantly all day about whether RSS was right or wrong in its what-if pronouncements about Dara Shikoh today or maybe RSS man Advani's pronouncements about secular Jinnah saab yesterday or whatever. Maybe if Gandhi wore suits instead of dhoti Jinnah would have remained secular and Hindus and Muslims would be singing kumbaya today, who can know?

The real informative point is the fact of RSS's preoccupation with constructing Hindu-Muslim kumbaya scenarios which are sheer fantasies. What is the point of it?

Reality with the RSS is that, in 100 years of existence, they have completely failed to create even a token cadre of Dara Shikoh or secular Jinnah type Muslims. That much we know for an obvious fact.

Now others who are familiar with the subject can comment on whether in fact RSS ever made such efforts(maybe following some chintan baithak or other) or these kumbaya fantasies are just empty pronouncements of the kind that are not uncommon among our people in public life.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 Dec 2019 17:55

g.sarkar wrote:https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/opin ... cs-absence
Cool Breeze: Politics of Absence
PRIYA SAHGAL, November 30, 2019.
Politics of Absence
Why did both Sonia Gandhi and Rahul boycott the Maharashtra swearing-in ceremony? Clearly, both have reservations about tying up with the hardline Hindutva outfit, Shiv Sena. In Sonia’s case this line of thought is consistent because it was during her watch that the party went in for an obvious pro minority tilt. However, during Rahul’s term as party chief there was a course correction which saw him undertake a fair amount of temple tourism and reiterate his Hindu identity. However, Rahul too chose to skip sharing the stage with Uddhav Thackeray, ostensibly for fear it would cut into his “secular” image. Which makes one wonder if there will be yet another re-launch of Brand Rahul with some new packaging. Of all the Congress Chief Ministers who were invited only Kamal Nath made it to the venue. One reason for this could be that he enjoys a close rapport with NCP chief Sharad Pawar. The NCP also reciprocated by giving him a seat right next to Pawar on the dais. But one wonders why other Congress CMs chose not to attend.
.......
Gautam

It is clear that very few in CON system believe that the tiger has changed its stripe even though it it pretending to be a house cat. Someday it will feel cornered and discover its voice and when the yellow stuff hits the fan no one wants to be colored.

The base impulse of Sena is well known. They only reason CON joined hands is to keep BJP out of power and fill the party piggy bank.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 01 Dec 2019 17:56

Dr Praveen Patil
@5Forty3

Shocking!
BJP has not taken a decisive lead even in a single seat out of the 13 assembly segments that have faced elections today in Jharkhand, as per ground reports.

What is happening? Complacency? Wrong digital approach? Data gaps? Strategic errors?

https://twitter.com/5Forty3/status/1200 ... 80864?s=20

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 01 Dec 2019 18:06

Manish_Sharma wrote:Dr Praveen Patil
@5Forty3

Shocking!
BJP has not taken a decisive lead even in a single seat out of the 13 assembly segments that have faced elections today in Jharkhand, as per ground reports.

What is happening? Complacency? Wrong digital approach? Data gaps? Strategic errors?
https://twitter.com/5Forty3/status/1200 ... 80864?s=20

This guy is rarely wrong. Very worrying state trends for BJP. It also shows that BJP itself has little appeal. Its Modi all the way.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 01 Dec 2019 18:23

sanjayc wrote:
ANI@ANI
RSS joint general secretary Dr Krishna Gopal at an event in Delhi yesterday: I can say with confidence that if Dara Shikoh had ruled India then Islam would have flourished in the country & Hindus would have also understood Islam better.
Is he regretting that Islam did not flourish in the country? Do Muslims leaders too wish for similar flourishing of Hinduism in Indian subcontinent?

Yes, I am confused by his statement too.
If DS had succeeded in creating a benign version of Islam, it would have been worse for core Hindus and conversions would have been more. The face that Islam and Hindu values are so orthogonal acted as a barrier to willing conversion, most conversion happened by force or by inducement.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 01 Dec 2019 18:44

Foolish to think that there will ever be benign version of converters. There always will be more exterme than before. Just the nature of their books and games. Drive the knife in and then pretend to be turning into benign to dilute your response and divert your mind. As soon as you do, they will drive the knife in further. Rinse and repeat.

No such thing as peaceful existence when their power centers aren't of Bharatiya in nature. These power centers could care less about the notion of God, Jesus, Allah, etc. To them they aren't anything but facial masks to be used to further their agendas.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 01 Dec 2019 19:02

Rony wrote:
Karan M wrote: DS's version of Islam was far far more "liberal" than the Barelvi types in the conventional sense with him reading H scriptures and trying to mix and match that with Islamic readings.
Long before DS, Akbar tried similar syncretism with his Din-i Ilahi. "Liberal" Sufi Ahmad Sirhindi called it blasphemy to Islam with the result that it died a natural death. If a person like Akbar who was already an emperor could not make it successful, DS wouldn't have fared any better even if he had become a emperor.

Sikhism was supposed to be a another similar syncretism exercise to bring some kind of syncretic unity between Hindus and Muslims. It worked with Hindus and Hindus only. All the Sikh gurus, all or most of the original Sikh disciplines are all Hindus. There was never any significant Muslims who joined Sikhism willingly like Hindus and became Sikhs.

Shiridi Sai Baba is another example. He propounded "Eshwar Allah sab ek" . Hindus fell for it and became his disciples and built big big temples for him. But no significant amount of Muslims became his worshipers and worship him.

You are 400% correct.
Islam is an extremely well designed religion and Mo is the world's greatest marketer.
While us kafirs may complain about Islam, it has successfully come out of nowhere and looted the civilized world and now has become a victim with sections of the real victims defending them. Naziism is denounced around the world but Islam had worse criminal history and is behind held up as victims. It's like a Roach Motel, you can enter but you can never leave. No freedom, but it's adherents still espouse it. Even many women who are the worst affected fight for it. It is self-sustaining.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 01 Dec 2019 19:09

kittoo wrote: This guy is rarely wrong. Very worrying state trends for BJP. It also shows that BJP itself has little appeal. Its Modi all the way.

Yes. Someone local from region can mention what's the cause. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it's on similar lines as I have noticed in Gujarat. Grooming and selection of candidates has to start from the bottom up. All the way to the level of canvassing cadre to college student union leaders. Goons are winning out. Lot of this machinery is clueless about the fight and is of the same nature as INC. Now if I'm charged up Hindu voter, I would notice that the local BJP machinery knows less about Hinduism than I do and not any different than INC. One understands that there's need for muscle, street presence, and corruption in politics. However, it can't be in direct contact with your voters.

I have mentioned few things before about GJ area where there has been no movement by BJP to clean the house and it will bring them down in GJ itself within an election or two. It would have already happened if not for Modi/Shah pair faith. Improvements on simple everyday things are missing and ground level machinery's getting little too power drunk. Fallin asleep after winning a battle. All boils down to the machinery not knowing what's the whole fight is about.

Now I'm mostly ranting about GJ. Someone from the other states can chime in.

Added later:
Keeping bigger fight in the mind, lot of time I don't leave examples or leave them vague. The most recent one is from charotar in GJ where a power and liquor drunk BJP councilor cut down trees in a colony because of the belief that these trees caused allergy issues to his kid. Needless to say that now this perennial BJP votes can't be taken for granted now. Even open appeasing of minorities wouldn't have lost this votes but now they are gone.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 01 Dec 2019 19:20

Press Trust of India@PTI_News
Case registered against contractor, Mumbai Metropolitan Region
Development Authority officials over felling of trees along Thane metro route: Police

Yeh lo, nothing good can happen to this country.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 01 Dec 2019 19:35

OK, now I am beyond doubt, RSS is either bunch of xxxxx or traitors. These people must be cut to size for Indic way to survive, there are so many honorable people from TN such as Muthuramalinga Devar etc, who fought for same causes honestly, whom RSS could have used as a model. Instead, they chose a casteist, crass, misogynist, uncouth person, a man who abused hinduism to no end, called Indian independence a dark day, wanted to secede from India, married his own adopted daughter, said prices of clothes are going up because dalit women have started wearing blouse, man the list is very long.

“Periyar had campaigned for a society where everyone the poor and the backward castes, have equal rights and could live in dignity. He had worked tirelessly towards creating a casteless society RSS too advocates and practises the same ideology”, Dr Vaidya

Moderator note: Temper your language on the forum. Behave with some decorum, please.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 01 Dec 2019 19:59

All these recent RSS statements on Dara Shikoh and Periyar are geared towards either softening their image among Muslims and Periyarists/Dravidianists or trying to attract them towards their fold.Either of which in my opinion will fail. These people's raison d'etre is Hindu hatred. The more you appease them, the more they think they are winning and the more hatred/pressure they would put on Hindus.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 01 Dec 2019 20:06

Shiv Sena will not deviate from Hindutva, says Uddhav

- "I am still with the ideology of 'Hindutva' and won't ever leave it," the chief minister said

- Fadnavis had earlier taken a jibe at Uddhav, saying that the Shiv Sena has compromised with its ideology by joining hands with the NCP and Congress

- The Shiv Sena's Hindutva now rests at the feet of (Congress president) Sonia Gandhi, Fadnavis had said

MUMBAI: Even as the Shiv Sena formed the government in Maharashtra with ideologically different parties NCP and Congress, chief minister Uddhav Thackeray on Sunday said that Hindutva idelogy is indispensable to Sena and the party will not leave it.

"I am still with the ideology of 'Hindutva' and won't ever leave it," the chief minister said during the state assembly session.

At a press conference earlier this week, former chief minister Devendra Fadnavis had said that Shiv Sena compromised with its core ideology — Hindutva — by joining hands with the Congress and the Nationalist Congress Party(NCP).

“The Shiv Sena's Hindutva now rests at the feet of (Congress president) Sonia Gandhi. Everyone is seeing this," Fadnavis had said.

Speaking after BJP's Devendra Fadnavis' election as the leader of opposition, Uddhav said he learnt lot of things from the former chief minister.

"I have learnt a lot of things from Devendra Fadvanis and I will always be friends with him. In the past five years, I have never betrayed the government."

Uddhav took a jibe at Fadnavis over the collapse of the BJP-Shiv Sena alliance after the former refused to accept Sena's demand for equal power-sharing in the new government.
"I am a lucky CM because those who opposed me are now with me and those who I was with are now on the opposite side. I am here with my luck and blessings of people. I have never told anyone that I will be coming here but I came," he said.

Continuing his tirade against the BJP, he said, "I won't call you (Devendra Fadnavis) an 'opposition leader', but I will call you a 'responsible leader'. If you would have been good to us then, all this (BJP-Shiv Sena split) would have not happened."
Cheers

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 01 Dec 2019 21:17

"very good & cultured daughter is missing"

In case of votebanks, the police becomes overloaded while the dominant (whichever in that region) only is able to enjoy social benefits ie criminals don't hit at any one from dominant mob. Indirectly police becomes subverted and, follows laws by letter ie disarming citizens except the mob that buys off resistance.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 01 Dec 2019 21:24

'There are over 16 crore Muslims, why are they scared, other minorities aren't,' asks RSS leader Krishna Gopal

Press Trust of India Sep 12, 2019 14:07:27 IST

Gopal said India never compromised on the principles of Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam (entire world is one family) and sarve bhavantu sukhinah (all should be happy) and wants that even Pakistan should prosper.

Referring to an article written by Islamic scholar Raamish Siddiqui that Muslims should not be afraid as they are more than 16 crore in the country, Gopal said "it is a big question" that why such a mindset exists.

"How many Parsis are in India... hardly 50 thousand, Jain 45 lakh and about 80 lakh Buddhists are there...Jews are only five thousand. They are not afraid of anyone.... Muslims are more than 16 crore then why are they afraid... Why and from whom? This is a big question that the community which ruled the country for 600 years is afraid... it should be discussed," he said, and suggested it could be due to a "divisive mindset" propagated by Mughal ruler Aurangzeb.

Gopal said all other minorities which are lesser in number compared to Muslims feel secure in India. Emphasising on inclusiveness as an essential part of Indian traditions, he said the people of this country want everyone to prosper.

"...daily something is going on with Pakistan and if someone gives a new mantra saying that except Pakistan all others should be happy. It is for sure that people of this country would not accept that thought. Why Pakistan should be unhappy... they should also be happy," he said.

The RSS leader was speaking at a conference on Mughal prince "Dara Shikoh — icon of composite culture". Describing Dara Shikoh as face of inclusiveness, Gopal said he was a true Muslim and translated Upnishads into Persian languages. He underlined that inclusiveness and unity have always been integral and essential part of Indian culture.

Many people from various countries and religions came to India and this country made them their own, he said. Union minister Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi, who also addressed the conference, said Aurangzeb was a "symbol of terrorism", while his brother Dara Shikoh was the identity of nationalism.

"Violence and oppression committed by anarchist and cruel ruler like Aurangzeb was glorified by group of Islamic fanatics, Leftist and so-called secular historians," Naqvi said adding that Aurangzeb's philosophy was to destroy human values and India's 'Sanatan Sanskriti'. "This same thinking gave birth to terror organisations like Al Qaeda, ISIS, Jaish-e-Muhammad, Lashkar-e-Taiba etc," he said.

SPattath · Post by **SPattath** » 01 Dec 2019 21:37

Karthik S wrote:OK, now I am beyond doubt, RSS is either bunch of chut**as or traitors. These people must be cut to size for Indic way to survive

Nobody has stopped you from starting an organization to protect Hinduism.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 01 Dec 2019 21:39

SPattath wrote:
Karthik S wrote:OK, now I am beyond doubt, RSS is either bunch of chut**as or traitors. These people must be cut to size for Indic way to survive
Nobody has stopped you from starting an organization to protect Hinduism.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

Moderator note: Further personal attacks will earn you a warning.

SPattath · Post by **SPattath** » 01 Dec 2019 21:42

Karthik S wrote:
SPattath wrote: Nobody has stopped you from starting an organization to protect Hinduism.
xxxxxx.

You called me a Traitor in your above post.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 01 Dec 2019 21:44

SPattath wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
Nobody has asked you for your smart alec useless opinion.
You called me a Traitor in your above post.

Oh you are from RSS, good if you want to own up their actions, btw I used either or, not just traitor.

Now, explain to me, asking you as you are taking ownership of actions of RSS, why RSS feels it's good to suck upto a person like EVR. Got many questions, let's begin with the newest one first.

SPattath · Post by **SPattath** » 01 Dec 2019 21:49

Karthik S wrote:
SPattath wrote: You called me a Traitor in your above post.
Oh you are from RSS, good if you want to own up their actions, btw I used either or, not just traitor.

Now, explain to me, asking you as you are taking ownership of actions of RSS, why RSS feels it's good to suck upto a person like EVR. Got many questions, let's begin with the newest one first.

Any swayamsevak can have an opinion, RSS official stand is only what is said by Sarkaryavah or Sarsanghachalak.

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 01 Dec 2019 21:52

Karthik S wrote:OK, now I am beyond doubt, RSS is either bunch of chut**as or traitors. These people must be cut to size for Indic way to survive, there are so many honorable people from TN such as Muthuramalinga Devar etc, who fought for same causes honestly, whom RSS could have used as a model. Instead, they chose a casteist, crass, misogynist, uncouth person, a man who abused hinduism to no end, called Indian independence a dark day, wanted to secede from India, married his own adopted daughter, said prices of clothes are going up because dalit women have started wearing blouse, man the list is very long.

“Periyar had campaigned for a society where everyone the poor and the backward castes, have equal rights and could live in dignity. He had worked tirelessly towards creating a casteless society RSS too advocates and practises the same ideology”, Dr Vaidya

RSS is just sucking up to Muslim and Tamil communities for votes

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 01 Dec 2019 21:55

SPattath wrote:Any swayamsevak can have an opinion, RSS official stand is only what is said by Sarkaryavah or Sarsanghachalak.

Does the mango-Hindu on the street know this?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 01 Dec 2019 21:57

I understand tamil community, that's why I said, there are so many great men from TN who can be picked up by RSS. Modi picked up thiruvalluvar for instance. Of all people why the hell that EVR guy? As it is Tamil society is going down the drain with EJ brainwashing, cinema, tasmac etc.
If these idiots have still not learnt the lesson about sucking upto muslims, then don't have any kind words for them. What's the saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Moderator note: Avoid such terms and references when referring to entire faiths and their adherents.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 01 Dec 2019 21:58

SPattath wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
Oh you are from RSS, good if you want to own up their actions, btw I used either or, not just traitor.

Now, explain to me, asking you as you are taking ownership of actions of RSS, why RSS feels it's good to suck upto a person like EVR. Got many questions, let's begin with the newest one first.
Any swayamsevak can have an opinion, RSS official stand is only what is said by Sarkaryavah or Sarsanghachalak.

What's that, like squadron leader and wing commander something?

SPattath · Post by **SPattath** » 01 Dec 2019 22:01

sanjayc wrote:
SPattath wrote:Any swayamsevak can have an opinion, RSS official stand is only what is said by Sarkaryavah or Sarsanghachalak.
Does the mango-Hindu on the street know this?

Even Enlightened Hindu's on BRF are unaware how would any mango hindu know.

SPattath · Post by **SPattath** » 01 Dec 2019 22:03

Karthik S wrote:
SPattath wrote: Any swayamsevak can have an opinion, RSS official stand is only what is said by Sarkaryavah or Sarsanghachalak.
What's that, like squadron leader and wing commander something?

Sarkayavah is like CEO currently Bhaiya Ji Joshi and Sarsanghachalak is like President currently PP Mohanji Bhagwat.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 02 Dec 2019 00:05

Karthik S - you already have a warning, for now I have only edited your posts to remove bad language. Both the terms used and the belligerent tone adopted towards other forum members are unnecessary. Please stop, or a second warning and a ban will follow. Thanks.