2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 11 Dec 2019 13:58

chetak wrote:
g.sarkar wrote: Yes. But I did not hear of the Ahmadiyyas as they are no longer Muslim and have become a minority community . I am sure they would like to return back to India. I have met some Pakistani Christians in America. They are helped by the church to come to the Khan land.
Gautam
The ahmadiyyas claim themselves as muslim and their practices and beliefs are overwhelmingly muslim.
they are approx 200 million strong world wide.
how do they become minority in pak where even shia are not considered muslim enough.
they convert others and believe that their way is the only way.
they can go to other islamic countries or fight for their own share in pakiland.
they cannot and should not be covered under the Indian CAB.

I know all that. I am afraid Chetakji, you did not catch the tone of sarcasm in my post. But being a dhimmi I have to be afraid every time, never mind.
I have never proposed that they come to India. But I hope they stay in Pakistan and not move to other Islamic countries as you mentioned. We will have uses for them in near future during the break up of Pakistan. The tragedy with the Ahmedias and Shia is that they did not trust their Hindu neighbors with whom they lived for centuries after they converted. They were the ones that agitated for Pakistan. They then decided to place their trust on strangers living in distant lands with whom they have little in common. Jinnah needed these people to go to Pakistan and work in the middle class jobs, and they moved there hoping for great prospects of advancement. As the Americans say Karma is a female dog.
Gautam

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Dec 2019 14:00

pankajs wrote:Note ...

ALWAYS keep that in mind when face to face with any gyan form the West. The "Christian theology & history" is so pervasive that even great "Atheist", who actually dislike their religion of birth, end up evangelizing the "Christian theology & history" unknowingly!

#AmazinHaiNa

https://twitter.com/sapinker/status/1204426879270301698
Steven Pinker @sapinker

The claim that morality depends on religion is both logically incoherent (Plato’s Euthyphro) and factually incorrect. The two greatest moral statements in the history of our species are 100% secular: UDHR, & UN Sustainable Development Goals. (Eliminating extreme poverty!)
To which the author of the "New history of Christianity - ‘Dominion’"
Tom Holland @holland_tom

The great thing about disguising culturally contingent assumptions bred of Christian theology & history as somehow universal is that you might even get famous atheists to evangelise them for you!
This is what I had pointed out earlier about RSS & Modi. They too have adopted certain "key constructs" from the "Abrahamics" into their theology in the name of "modernity".

https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/ ... 8760829953

Tom Holland @holland_tom

Recent history would suggest that the most effective way to propagate Christian theological assumptions is to disguise the fact that they’re Christian.

Secularism is the perfect vehicle to impose Christian theological assumptions on the Pagans and Heathens.

Tom Holland @holland_tom

“The Christian event par excellence" - Ernst Bloch on the French Revolution #Dominion

Paul Wood @pjw_45

De Tocqueville is good on this, when he argues how the French Revolution was more akin to a religious than a political revolution, with its proselytism and appeal beyond civic/national lines.

And .. on English morality that is the bedrock of the English Law that is so dear to our sickularist.

Daniel Joachim @danieljoachim

As always. Here is Friedrich Nietzsche to the rescue:

"When the English actually believe that they know ‘intuitively’ what is good and evil, when they therefore suppose that they no longer require Christianity as the guarantee of morality, we merely witness the effects of the>

strength and depth of this dominion: such that the origin of English morality has been forgotten, such that the very conditional character of its right to existence is no longer felt. For the English, morality is not yet a problem.”
(Twillight of the Idols)

That is to say, English morality, mores and laws are deeply Christian under the cover of secularism.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Dec 2019 14:11

g.sarkar wrote:
chetak wrote: The ahmadiyyas claim themselves as muslim and their practices and beliefs are overwhelmingly muslim.
they are approx 200 million strong world wide.
how do they become minority in pak where even shia are not considered muslim enough.
they convert others and believe that their way is the only way.
they can go to other islamic countries or fight for their own share in pakiland.
they cannot and should not be covered under the Indian CAB.
I know all that. I am afraid Chetakji, you did not catch the tone of sarcasm in my post. But being a dhimmi I have to be afraid every time, never mind.
I have never proposed that they come to India. But I hope they stay in Pakistan and not move to other Islamic countries as you mentioned. We will have uses for them in near future during the break up of Pakistan. The tragedy with the Ahmedias and Shia is that they did not trust their Hindu neighbors with whom they lived for centuries after they converted. They were the ones that agitated for Pakistan. They then decided to place their trust on strangers living in distant lands with whom they have little in common. Jinnah needed these people to go to Pakistan and work in the middle class jobs, and they moved there hoping for great prospects of advancement. As the Americans say Karma is a female dog.
Gautam

Yes saar, I seem to have missed it.

Your points are very valid.

Please excuse onlee.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Dec 2019 14:16

termites in the paki woodwork

coupta looks high after tanking up on the single malt and tandoori

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Dec 2019 14:19

Harish Salve on Times Now .. WATCH the embedded video.

https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/1204433050026704897

TIMES NOW @TimesNow

'CAB is not anti-Muslim and doesn’t violate Article 14, 15 or even 21 of the Constitution,' India’s leading legal mind Harish Salve opines on Citizenship Amendment Bill (CAB) on India Upfront with Rahul Shivshankar. | #CABProtest

Better video .. Start @ 01:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLm1RF1NrG8
Does Citizenship Amendment Bill pass legal scrutiny? | Harish Salve speaks to Times Now | EXCLUSIVE

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Dec 2019 14:38

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... s-6161458/
2002 Gujarat riots: Nanavati Commission gives clean chit to Narendra Modi, ministers

The Nanavati Commission's final report was tabled in Gujarat Assembly Wednesday, five years after it was submitted to then state chief minister Anandiben Patel. Evidence and testimonies given by three former IPS officers RB Sreekumar, Rahul Sharma, and Sanjiv Bhatt against Gujarat government were dismissed by the commission.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 11 Dec 2019 15:06

The amount of sympathy and arm twisting in favor of Peacefools is beyond comprehension. Forget our neighborhood, Even US is shedding tears When India is offering roof over the head to persecuted minorities.
Turn this upside down and consider a bill where only Muslims were allowed to apply for CAB, every one would have been jumping with joy and idiots like Sibbal and PK would have been on the forefront supporting the bill.

I feel scared of the scale of the fight that Hindus are fighting with hands tied behind.
Consider this, why is USA or Pakhis feeling uncomfortable with this bill. They can always offer their land for the persecuted Muslim minorities, can't they.
With this bill, The gates will be partially closed forever. As soon as one of the 3.25 forefathers of Pakhis go bellyup and Cheeni uncle come to collect the rent, India will suddenly become loving motherland to many Pakistanis and they will
suddenly develop love for Indian citizenship.

We need someone like Modi Ji and Amit Shah for next decade to cleanup the sewage that flows in the name of Looten, Liberal and Esscular.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Dec 2019 16:01

Vikas wrote:The amount of sympathy and arm twisting in favor of Peacefools is beyond comprehension. Forget our neighborhood, Even US is shedding tears When India is offering roof over the head to persecuted minorities.
Turn this upside down and consider a bill where only Muslims were allowed to apply for CAB, every one would have been jumping with joy and idiots like Sibbal and PK would have been on the forefront supporting the bill.

I feel scared of the scale of the fight that Hindus are fighting with hands tied behind.
Consider this, why is USA or Pakhis feeling uncomfortable with this bill. They can always offer their land for the persecuted Muslim minorities, can't they.
With this bill, The gates will be partially closed forever. As soon as one of the 3.25 forefathers of Pakhis go bellyup and Cheeni uncle come to collect the rent, India will suddenly become loving motherland to many Pakistanis and they will
suddenly develop love for Indian citizenship.

We need someone like Modi Ji and Amit Shah for next decade to cleanup the sewage that flows in the name of Looten, Liberal and Esscular.

they see the coming tide.

UCC, anti conversion laws, the loss of dominance over education, the growing opposition to halal certifications and the attempt to build hegemon over food supply networks and these halal clowns are even certifying vegetarian products now, the growing consolidation of the Hindus and the demolition of the BIF that has had a stranglehold over India and the Hindus these past many decades.

the islamic countries are quiet for the moment but we will begin to see the cautious blowback soon enough.

the abrahamics are the biggest losers in their conversion games and via conversion, the rapid consolidation of political power, the effects of which are self evident in AP and TN and they will not give in without a long and arduous fight back.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Dec 2019 16:12

chetak wrote:
Vikas wrote:The amount of sympathy and arm twisting in favor of Peacefools is beyond comprehension. Forget our neighborhood, Even US is shedding tears When India is offering roof over the head to persecuted minorities.
Turn this upside down and consider a bill where only Muslims were allowed to apply for CAB, every one would have been jumping with joy and idiots like Sibbal and PK would have been on the forefront supporting the bill.

I feel scared of the scale of the fight that Hindus are fighting with hands tied behind.
Consider this, why is USA or Pakhis feeling uncomfortable with this bill. They can always offer their land for the persecuted Muslim minorities, can't they.
With this bill, The gates will be partially closed forever. As soon as one of the 3.25 forefathers of Pakhis go bellyup and Cheeni uncle come to collect the rent, India will suddenly become loving motherland to many Pakistanis and they will
suddenly develop love for Indian citizenship.

We need someone like Modi Ji and Amit Shah for next decade to cleanup the sewage that flows in the name of Looten, Liberal and Esscular.
they see the coming tide.

UCC, anti conversion laws, the growing consolidation of the Hindus and the demolition of the BIF that has had a stranglehold over India and the Hindus these past many decades.

the islamic countries are quiet for the moment but we will begin to see the cautious blowback soon enough.

the abrahamics are the biggest losers in their conversion games and via conversion, the rapid consolidation of political power, the effects of which are self evident in AP and TN and they will not give in without a long and arduous fight back.

Agreed, both of you.

I fully expect the next attack on Indians will be via the visa categories and threats of sanctions etc.

Mark my words - the charge will be led by Gungadins, sold-out coconuts used to attack Hindus so that the caucasians can get by without being accused of Hinduphobia or racism.

The west simply cannot abide Hindus acting in their own interests. For whatever reason, they are fully in bed with Islamism and think it can be reformed, has to be mollycoddled, leveraged etc. And as Chetak said, they see their decades long project of making India a docile, easily managed chamcha of the west under threat.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Dec 2019 16:21

Its almost some think Islamism is thier Doberman which they think they can control

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Dec 2019 16:22

the twists and turns of UT after he has realized the thick schitt that he finds himself in after abandoning all his principles, whatever few that he may have had.

this is one ex "Hindu" frog that is being slowly boiled in the crock pot and he doesn't have the sense to realize it

there will be a harsh blowback within his own party if he goes against the bill, whatever idiotic excuse that he may think of to justify it.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Dec 2019 16:26

https://twitter.com/PTI_News/status/1204440727955992576

Press Trust of India @PTI_News

Congress leader Mohammed Arif Naseem Khan slams Shiv Sena for supporting Citizenship (Amendment) Bill in LS, accuses it of violating common minimum programme of Maharashtra coalition govt

More please ..

Welluuu ...
https://twitter.com/nytpolitics/status/ ... 0537972736

NYT Politics @nytpolitics

President Trump will sign an executive order defining Judaism as a nationality, not just a religion, thus bolstering the Education Department's efforts to stamp out "Boycott Israel" movements on college campuses

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Dec 2019 16:32

pankajs wrote:https://twitter.com/PTI_News/status/1204440727955992576
Press Trust of India @PTI_News

Congress leader Mohammed Arif Naseem Khan slams Shiv Sena for supporting Citizenship (Amendment) Bill in LS, accuses it of violating common minimum programme of Maharashtra coalition govt
More please ..

Welluuu ...
https://twitter.com/nytpolitics/status/ ... 0537972736
NYT Politics @nytpolitics

President Trump will sign an executive order defining Judaism as a nationality, not just a religion, thus bolstering the Education Department's efforts to stamp out "Boycott Israel" movements on college campuses

Congress leader Mohammed Arif Naseem Khan has now officially placed UT between a rock and a very hard place.

No wiggle room left for the SS now.

Do or die.

either way, the SS vote bank is done

Does this mean that the sickulars have got to nitishwa and convinced him to jump ship

komal · Post by **komal** » 11 Dec 2019 16:35

chetak wrote:the twists and turns of UT after he has realized the thick schitt that he finds himself in after abandoning all his principles, whatever few that he may have had.

this is one ex "Hindu" frog that is being slowly boiled in the crock pot and he doesn't have the sense to realize it

there will be a harsh blowback within his own party if he goes against the bill, whatever idiotic excuse that he may think of to justify it.

I am sure Madame will force UT to proclaim that the SS voted against the bill becuase it excluded Tamils from Sri Lanka.

We have alway been at war with East Asia

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 11 Dec 2019 17:14

TIMES NOW

@TimesNow

#Breaking | Sources:
@ShivSena
likely to walkout in the Rajya Sabha on the Citizenship (Amendment) Bill.

TIMES NOW’s Megha Prasad with details. Listen in. | #CABFinalTest

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Dec 2019 17:26

vijayk wrote:TIMES NOW

@TimesNow

#Breaking | Sources:
@ShivSena
likely to walkout in the Rajya Sabha on the Citizenship (Amendment) Bill.

TIMES NOW’s Megha Prasad with details. Listen in. | #CABFinalTest

UT's highly developed sense of self preservation that has kicked in causing him to retire hurt.

he has exposed his own precarious position and how he has managed to cage himself.

Still, his vote bank will not agree with him

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 11 Dec 2019 17:46

What implications does walk out have ?

So this is not counted as vote against the bill, correct ?

Also does this reduces the number needed for achieving majority ?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Dec 2019 17:47

Watch video.

@Swamy39 is unbeatable

twitter

@Swamy39

Dr Swamy your are rockstar..

Amit shah just starting

https://twitter.com/Deepak92721224/stat ... 7313985537

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Dec 2019 17:47

Sumeet wrote:What implications does walk out have ?

So this is not counted as vote against the bill, correct ?

Also does this reduces the number needed for achieving majority ?

reduces the number by 3 which is the SS strength in the RS

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 11 Dec 2019 17:55

just put this picture in all images

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 11 Dec 2019 18:00

People like this had gone to lengths to introduce abrahamic thoughts as slow dosages or only allow certain thoughts to survive that in long term (over multiple generations) would turn into abrahamic thoughts. As always, playing long term games lasting centuries. Even instilling one more value over decades is considered success for this kind.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginald_Heber

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 11 Dec 2019 18:00

https://twitter.com/SwamiGeetika/status ... 2565364738

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Dec 2019 18:05

Do WATCH ...
https://twitter.com/iMac_too/status/1204603017816756224

iMac_too @iMac_too

Another excellent articulation on #CAB. This time it's @Aryama_Sundaram

https://twitter.com/rautsanjay61/status ... 4272244738

https://twitter.com/abhility/status/1204583009925529600

Journal Entry @abhility

Terrible way to describe Uddhav and Aaditya Thackeray

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Dec 2019 18:46

https://twitter.com/Law1Leo/status/1204627392926384128

Adv_Leo @Law1Leo

CAB is an attempt to give Indian Citizenship to persecuted,humiliated & terrorised Hindus living in countries with Islam as state religion & their number is dwindling without taking away anything from any Indian citizen. Any opposition to this will make BJP politically invincible

Lets do a thought experiment.

Assume the bill is defeated on the floor of RS today. What will happen then? All sickulars will celebrate a victory and call BJP anti-Muslim. BJP in turn will call all the rest of the parties as anti-Dalit and anti-Hindus. The respite will be temporary for the sickulars and the BJP will ultimately prevail.

Who will benefit IF the fight over CAB get prolonged? BJP .. without doubt. Better for the opposition to let the bill pass after strident opposition and make is disappear on the rear-view mirror.

sajo · Post by **sajo** » 11 Dec 2019 18:49

Amit Shah is speaking now, his voice sounds a bit trembly and tired, understandable from the hectic schedules of these guys. Though it does not stop me from worrying about MAD's collective health.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Dec 2019 18:56

The sickulars are strange people. They see 5 of their people marching in 5 cities and they think the BJP is finished ...

https://twitter.com/vsirnate/status/1204626527394160640

Vasundhara Sirnate @vsirnate

Everywhere you look in India there are protests and dissent. Northeast against CAB, Kashmir under siege, DU, JNU protests. Public sector unit employees have been striking all year for different companies. farmers marches. Women’s agitations.

Vasundhara Sirnate @vsirnate

Congratulations BJP. You’ve managed to accomplish something that previously only the British had managed - a country in revolt.

The narrative did not work before 2019 and will not work now. A majority of Indians are very supportive of the BJP.

https://twitter.com/ExSecular/status/12 ... 2854276098

mandir wahin banega @ExSecular

NDA has more bills to pass than liberals have awards to return

I think they have finally understood this and gotten over the award wapsi fetish.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 11 Dec 2019 19:18

Funny how the opposition brings up Article 14 etc. Notwithstanding whether CAB violates Article 14 or not, it doesn't really matter. It applies only to Indian citizens. Article 14 cannot comment on how we treat refugees or what criteria we choose to give them asylum.

The interesting angle though is this: I hope the CAB has adequate protection clauses for the Indian state. The people who are "naturalized" via CAB must be given a "conditional naturalization". If they indulge in anti-national activities or if they had fraudulently availed of CAB benefits (i.e. convert to Hinduism --> immigrate --> re-convert to Islam), then their citizenship should be revoked and them deported. They shouldn't be given Article 14 immunity.

This is what the U.S also does, as part of its naturalization process. The U.S asks people to state whether they've ever been a part of any Communist organization in their naturalization forms. That's discrimination!

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 11 Dec 2019 19:28

Downright lies being peddled by a Modi hater:

The year was 2013. I was travelling in China, when a taxi driver there posed a question to me: Why are there so few Buddhists in India? The fact is we did persecute Buddhists in India.

Can a complaint be filed against this a s s h o l e for indulging in malicious and intentional propaganda aimed at harming the image of the country and in trying to incite the Buddhists in India?

Now, through the CAB, we are creating divisions between Abrahamic religions by including Christians in the Bill but excluding Muslims

The real reason for the angst and the written diarrhea.

Finally, if those who support the CAB think the Bill would be able to take away the citizenship of billions of Muslims, they are wrong: The CAB would apply to only Muslims who have migrated from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan.

Billions of muslims in India? and where are the muslims from other countries that have emigrated into India? The modi hater is high on something very strong.

Just look at the secret wish list

Ideally, we should say anyone persecuted anywhere in the world, on the ground of religion or political opinion, would be welcome in India.

Wants to see Dharmic india overrun by zombies from other religions.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Dec 2019 19:31

derek no brain speaking on the CAB in parliament today.

The Citizenship Amendment bill after getting a clear passage in the Lok Sabha on December 9 has been tabled today in the Rajya Sabha. The usual elements from the Opposition side have been debating on how the bill is ‘anti-Indian’ and ‘unconstitutional’.

However, in their haste to oppose the bill, TMC MP Derek O Brien slipped up and ended up justifying why the Citizenship Amendment Bill is necessary and the rationale behind it by citing an example of his own family.

TMC leader and member of the Rajya Sabha, Derek O’ Brien, in his speech in the Rajya Sabha today, was all out criticising the Modi government and its decision to bring in the Citizenship Amendment Bill which seeks to grant citizenship to persecuted minorities belonging to the three neighbouring Islamic countries – Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan.

While he spoke on how the Citizenship (Amendment) Bill will be separating people from their nation, and that this bill is anti-Bengali and anti-Indian, towards the end of his speech he gave the example of his own family.

The TMC leader said that a part of his family who went to West Pakistan during the partition in 1947, have either migrated to Canada or US or had to convert to Islam. By divulging this bitter truth about his own family, Derek O’ Brien inadvertently, goes on to prove exactly why implementing the Citizenship Amendment bill becomes necessary.

He said that his family members who were left behind in Pakistan had to convert to Islam.

This is exactly what happens to the Hindu minorities living in Pakistan, Bangladesh or Afghanistan which the government attempts to pull the plugs on, by introducing this bill. CAB becomes necessary so that such minority Hindu’s can be saved from this forced persecution, in the neighbouring countries, on the pretext of their religion.

The proposed legislation applies to those who were forced to seek shelter in India due to persecution on the ground of religion. It aims to protect such people from proceedings of illegal migration. The cut-off date for citizenship is December 31, 2014, which means the applicant should have entered India on or before that date.

Religious discrimination is a serious issue in modern-day Pakistan and other neighbouring Islamic countries. Attacks on religious minorities in these countries have claimed hundreds of lives. Women belonging to minority communities have been targets of forced conversions rape and forced marriages

sajo · Post by **sajo** » 11 Dec 2019 19:35

Amit Shah live : My 7 generations are born here, I am not from "videsh".. I know what the idea of India is.

Epic ! I love it how he is Abba-Harmonium-ing the Khangressis.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Dec 2019 19:46

"Hum Modi ko dekh lenge" Coupta jee, Clutching at straws to defeat Modi

https://twitter.com/ShekharGupta/status ... 3991250944

Shekhar Gupta @ShekharGupta

On a day he sweeps Karnataka bye-elections in style..

Here is why I had said in this #NationalInterest:

Modi and Shah had been challenged for the first time—by Yediyurappa, of all people

Wonlee yesterdin, Yeddi jee disclosed that the portfolio distribution will be announced after the green signal from Modi/Shah.

Some challenge to their authority.

Coupta ji must be on something really strong ... So much hate for one man that even result in his favor becomes #BlowToModi. The poison of hate will eat them form the inside.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Dec 2019 20:00

Lessons from the U.K.:

Why Nationalists Fail
The Welsh independence movement lags far behind the Scottish version. Why?

When I asked Ailsa Henderson, a politics professor at Edinburgh University, what was necessary for a successful independence movement, she named three main components: an argument that balances fear against hope, a narrative of a nation’s values being repressed, and an “other” to rail against.

The story of Wales and Scotland tells us many important things about how political movements succeed and falter, often depending on factors far outside their control. But perhaps the most important lesson is this: National identity is neither fixed nor immutable. It can be massaged and encouraged by strong separatist leaders or contained by skillful rivals who address the root causes of voters’ discontent. Nationalist sentiment often points to disillusionment with a political system that feels remote and unresponsive.

https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... ce/603283/

sajo · Post by **sajo** » 11 Dec 2019 20:17

Undue dhotiShibber post self deleted.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Dec 2019 20:22

Time for UBCN predictions?
121 FOR, 83 against, the rest are idiots who Walked Out.

sajo · Post by **sajo** » 11 Dec 2019 20:24

Massive DhotiShibbering gun jumping post self deleted. Apologies to all in advance.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Dec 2019 20:24

How can it be Ayes 92? The NDA has 116 + any from the appointed "non-political"s

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Dec 2019 20:26

Heads need to roll among the "NDA". This was in the bag if they had got their asses out to vote.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 11 Dec 2019 20:26

Voting was for sending bill to select committee. This was defeated.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Dec 2019 20:29

Does this mean it is dead? What kept the NDA's remainder from coming out to vote? AS losing his danda?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Dec 2019 20:30

No ... IF what Prashnath write is correct, the vote was to vote on it rather than put it into clod storage(committee).