UlanBatori wrote:Picklu wrote:And last but not the least, I do not trust in Magic; despite my faith in NaMo, NRC WON'T BE SUCCESSFUL. Data and Science says so.
Pickluji, ppl die. So if the guvrmand puts as many ppl on the register as it can, and esp. newborns, it will become steadily more risky to do hanky-panky with this. Same as passport. So some reason for optimism.
It won't be perfect and there will always be a market for Made in Pakistan documents. And handcuffs.
No so long ago the idea of registering births at the municipal appees was a novel thing.
N3 Sir, we are talking the same things in different language. Here was my proposal from the very beginning even before NRC in assam were implemented. I have been posting on this from 2016 at least on this forum and I have been pretty consistent.
1. Fence the border in
2 layers with a minefield in between to slow down any attempt to cross over. For any river, put the 2 layer fence on our side of the bank. Will stop most of the illegals. The technological solution exist. All the excuses given for topology etc are mostly bunkum and govt chickening out from a large infra project without any direct financial ROI.
2.
Only when the above step 1 is complete, create a register of citizens, call it NRC, NPR whatever. Seed it directly from
Aadhaar which already has more than 95% coverage of all citizens with biometrics and facial profile.
Grant an one time amnesty for all who are already in India and have some/any kind of documentation at that point. I am not against the register per say, only against this madness of document verification proving lineage upto some cutoff date that's 30/50 year in the past.
And we need to ensure that while the obviously jihadist BD scum gets excluded, the total final exclusion does not cross 5-10k. We need to be lenient. Because, handling anything beyond that would be a disaster financially, security wise and also in terms of foreign policy. Basically, no half measures at this point. Find the newly entered jihadist scum that has no pathway to citizenship, lock them in jail for life and throw away the key forever. Can't be done for a large group of people beyond 5 to 10k. Allow the rest in as citizen and get them integrated via
UCC and aadhaar. We need to stop hanky panky by all - indian jihadist, ej, khalistani etc etc and not just the bd jihadi. NRC is not the tool for this, UCC and its strict implementation and monitoring via Aadhaar is the key.
It is important to do this after step 1, else there will remain a loophole and new illegals will keep on coming and get added to the same register via the local political support. However much we like, Cong, CPM, TMC and their ilk are not going away anywhere soon.
3.
CAB remains. The single most humane thing this govt has done. Jai ho. People like my family members will always have a home in this great nation in the future.
Already Matuas in WB, more than 70 lakh in numbers are celebrating.
To all who think the protest is against CAB, you can't be more wrong. The protest is essentially against the current method of
NRC which CAB enables. However, protesting against NRC is not politically feasible since it needs lot of data point to prove the futility. Hence the protest against CAB which is easy because it allows to run the narrative of
specific religion based exclusion.
hanumadu wrote:Picklu wrote:Apart from WB, Assam is supposed to have the highest number of illegals; all other states have chillar comparatively. And due to animosity between son of the soil Assamese and outsider Mia, it would have been easier to identify them in Assam vs in WB. All it detected is at the most 7 lakh out of 40?
If the estimated Assamese population at present is 3.4 crore, only 3.3 crore applied for NRC. That is 10 lakh did not even apply. So I guess we can add them under excluded BD muslims which then makes the total number of excluded BD Muslims to 17 lakhs.
3.4 Crore is the rough number and it is an
estimate.
The actual number may very well be 3.3 Crore or there about. 10 lakh is big number and it does not appear feasible that so many didn't apply. 5 lakh muslim excluded in NRC didn't appeal and that itself came out in the news papers multiple times. If 10 lakh didn't apply, it would have surely come out in the news one way or another with MSM pushing the "dara hua muslim" narrative.
And even if for the sake of argument, we say 10 lakh didn't apply, I hope you do realize the implications of 17 lakh people living amidst us with all sort of documentation but simply not appearing in the register. Extrapolate the same to the rest of the nation and say 40 lakh remains excluded. They would have what N3 mentioned so eloquently "Made in Pakistan documents" to evade most of the cursory search.
Can you again imagine the security, public health and economical burden such a large undocumented population puts on a society organised via citizen register and aadhaar (vs the current entirely unorganised one)?
Are we going to put police officers with deep anal probes every street corner to ensure these 40 lakhs undocumented one do not appear out of thin air, cause any hunky panky and simply vanish afterwords? For maintaining security, those probes will enter the nether orifice of everyone, both legal and illegal. And imagine the scope of bribe!!!
And exactly that's what would be needed. Because if people (illegal or otherwise) think that they do not have proper documentation to get registered in NRC, they simply won't bother to even try and put themselves in the doubtful list. They would rather go "unregistered" and such a large population would simply find it's own way to survive undocumented as is the human nature to survive. That's exactly the learning from LatAm illegals in America or ME illegals in EU.
Sachin wrote:Picklu wrote:And last but not the least, I do not trust in Magic; despite my faith in NaMo, NRC WON'T BE SUCCESSFUL. Data and Science says so.
Then what do you suggest?
. Allow the Bangladeshi illegals to enjoy their life in India?
Bangladeshi caught with Indian passport at KIA - is what today's Deccan Herald reports. And this is not the first case. Bangladesh->Bengal->Bangalore->Middle East seems to be the regular route taken by these people. And sooner or later India as a nation will have to face the music when the Bangladeshis start their criminal activities in the middle east. From what I understand many Sheikdoms in Middle East now do NOT issue VISAs for Bangladeshis, considering their criminal nature.
My opinion is that there has to be some way to ensure that India does not become a heaven for Bangladeshis. There has to be some way to make sure that they do not get any privileges by remaining in India. Be it an internal passport system like what they have in China.
Sachin sir, the reason why I am responding to you in the same reply to N3 is so that i do not have to repeat. My suggestion is the 3 steps i have put above. I am putting forth this suggestion for quite sometimes now. Only, currently, there is data to bolster the argument after Assam NRC.
And you are not going to like what I am going to say here. The cost of leniency and amnesty for the existing bd illegal ones, economically, diplomatically, security wise and public health and welfare and all the other plethora of governance, is miniscule compared to what will happen if we embark on this strict document based lineage verified NRC that is currently being proposed. It would be a human rights disaster for legitimate citizens caught as illegal for numerous common reasons(* see a few sample below) and equally disastrous for a large group of undocumented illegals living among us without registration.
Is that fair to tax paying bonfide indian citizen like me? No. But that's the path of best case unfortunately.
If I have to give an analogy, consider this:
After a particular age, a man won't be able to have a hard-on.
All human are bound to die at old age.
Do we like this? No. However even if we consider then a problem, there is no solution to them.
That's exactly the case of illegal BDs who are already in. Trying to weed them out is akin to taking a boatload of Via(little blue pill)Agra at the age of 90 to solve the hard-on problem. No good will come out of it. For either case
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* Among the common reasons why a strict verification may fail a large number of bonafide indians, I have already given examples of misspelling etc in the documents, omission in voter roll, natural calamity like cyclone, flood, earthquake, fire in govt record office, non digitized records in poorly maintained storage etc that keeps on hitting us like clockwork. Our land and property records are nothing to talk about either to begin with, we simply are not great in documentation.
Even where records exist, it may face a challenge to furnish because of human relationship issues etc like
a. relatives fighting court cases for property etc
b. multiple marriage in our ancestors and relationship breaking down due to various disputes/emotions arising out of it.
I have examples of both among distant relatives and I am sure that's quite common. The number of court case backlogs is empirical proof of point a and for point b, well us the people of the subcontinent are all extremely similar in our social structure irrespective of language, ethnicity and religion.
Take all these in together and you will find that a significant number of bonafide indians have a risk to get excluded in the NRC. The extrapolated figure of 3.5 crore would suddenly start making sense.
And the solution via Internal passport? You must be joking sir. If the illegals can manage 100s of other documents, what's another one more? Already you are aware that most of the BD folks in Bangalore are fluent in Kannada. Quite a few are even multilingual in all south languages.
Nothing surprising, human beings would achieve great things for survival. It's better to channel and harness that for the betterment of society and country rather than creating a division within our society with lot of bad bloods.
And the current riots are pointing exactly in that direction. Bad blood. Think of the end game. Before NRC, they were not rioting at this scale, the threat of NRC has put them on an war path.
What would you do with that many jihadi living among us in future as undocumented who has become more embittered and antagonistic in the process?