Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 15 Dec 2019 00:36

Don't worry about Christine Motirama, watch this for shock value and some laughs. Al Jazeera no less. A popular comment suggests that Qatar didn't get some rent payment

[youtube]https://youtu.be/WJLYxkUN3zY[/youtube]

https://youtu.be/WJLYxkUN3zY

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 15 Dec 2019 03:24

Document reveals official US position on F-16s - Anwar Iqbal

WASHINGTON: The United States understood Pakistan’s need to use F-16 fighter jets to defend itself during an Indian intrusion in February this year, shows a document published on Thursday.

The document, obtained by the US News and World Report magazine, however, also shows that Washington was not happy with Islamabad’s decision to deploy these US-supplied aircraft and missiles to forward positions.

The US State Department raised both points in a letter then-undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security Affairs Andrea Thomson wrote to Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan.

“We understand from you that these aircraft movements were done in support of national defence objectives,” said the letter sent to Islamabad in August, months after the dog-fight in which a Pakistani F-16 brought down an Indian jet in Azad Kashmir.

But “the US government considers the relocation of aircraft to non-US government authorised bases concerning and inconsistent with the F-16 Letter of Offer and Acceptance”, it added.

Several diplomatic officials and analysts the magazine spoke to noted that the letter did not expressly mention the Indian complaint that using the F-16 to shoot down the Indian fighter jet was a violation of the terms of use for US-supplied weapons.

They argued that acknowledging this in a formal State Department transmission would have triggered procedures to reprimand Islamabad, which the Trump administration wanted to avoid.

The experts also noted that the Trump administration was now attempting to repair its contentious relations with Islamabad, which was once a close US ally in the wars against the Soviets and Islamists.

In March this year, Pakistani officials pointed out that the F-16 contract not only acknowledged the aircraft’s “deterrence value” to Pakistan in a future conflict with India, but also noted that it could prevent a nuclear clash between the two neighbours.

Both points are specifically mentioned in a message the then US ambassador in Islamabad Anne Patterson sent to the State Department on April 24, 2008.

“An enhanced F-16 programme also has deterrence value by giving Pakistan time and space to employ a conventional, rather than nuclear, reaction in the event of a future conflict with India,” wrote Ms Thompson, a military intelligence officer who first entered the administration as Vice President Mike Pence’s national security adviser.
Cheers

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 15 Dec 2019 03:33

Cain Marko wrote:Don't worry about Christine Motirama, watch this for shock value and some laughs. Al Jazeera no less. A popular comment suggests that Qatar didn't get some rent payment

[youtube]https://youtu.be/WJLYxkUN3zY[/youtube]

https://youtu.be/WJLYxkUN3zY

Cain Marko Ji:

With respect KINDLY - post a warning - in every YouTube presentation by the SHE DRAGON - whose face cause me to throw up!

Cheers

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 15 Dec 2019 09:36

Cain Marko wrote:Don't worry about Christine Motirama, watch this for shock value and some laughs. Al Jazeera no less. A popular comment suggests that Qatar didn't get some rent payment
[youtube]https://youtu.be/WJLYxkUN3zY[/youtube]
https://youtu.be/WJLYxkUN3zY

Markoji,
I had great respect for you. In future, for the sake of women and children and people with weak heart and stomach, please post a statutory warning on such pictures.
Gautam

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 15 Dec 2019 13:50

Karan M wrote:Anyone who thinks Christine Fair is professional and is in anyone's camp apart from Christine Fair's is mistaken IMHO. She has her own agenda and it may change tomorrow.

Exactly! She is a loose canon.

True, she provides some good info re. Pakis, but my problem with her is her thoroughly unprofessional behaviour at many of these seminars/meetings, and I'm not talking here about what she says technically, but her language and personal comportment. I also have the strong impression that her own compatriots (American think-tankers / analysts / ex-diplomats) have a problem with this aspect of her personality. I mean, at several of these seminars in India I have seen her curse out Trump in the nastiest language you can imagine. To treat your own President in this rude/shabby manner on foreign soil is beyond the pale, IMO. By the way, I also think her behaviour towards her own husband is demeaning and belittling when she publicly boasts about her past sexual conquests (with the Paki Army, for example). In that sense she is a typical Western feminazi who believes that the emancipation of women requires the public insulting of men.

It's funny, as a fanatical feminist, she would start screaming vituperation at anyone using the word "hysterical" to describe a woman's behaviour, but there are times when the word is exactly suitable. If she stayed at home (in the US) and bashed Trump, fine. But when she goes on foreign soil and starts screaming invective against her own President before a foreign audience, it is not brave, it is simply petty and hysterical. Not surprising that she worships Hilary Clinton.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 15 Dec 2019 14:25

Peregrine wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:Don't worry about Christine Motirama, watch this for shock value and some laughs. Al Jazeera no less. A popular comment suggests that Qatar didn't get some rent payment

[youtube]https://youtu.be/WJLYxkUN3zY[/youtube]

https://youtu.be/WJLYxkUN3zY
Cain Marko Ji:

With respect KINDLY - post a warning - in every YouTube presentation by the SHE DRAGON - whose face cause me to throw up!

Cheers

g.sarkar wrote: Markoji,
I had great respect for you. In future, for the sake of women and children and people with weak heart and stomach, please post a statutory warning on such pictures.
Gautam

Ayyo. Many apologies to Peregrineji and Gautamji. And to any innocent brfite whose gaze might fall on such an ubshakun, manhoos spectacle as Shreiking Shireen. but in my defense, I did say it was shocking.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 15 Dec 2019 14:27

Roop wrote:
Karan M wrote:Anyone who thinks Christine Fair is professional and is in anyone's camp apart from Christine Fair's is mistaken IMHO. She has her own agenda and it may change tomorrow.
Exactly! She is a loose canon.

True, she provides some good info re. Pakis, but my problem with her is her thoroughly unprofessional behaviour at many of these seminars/meetings, and I'm not talking here about what she says technically, but her language and personal comportment. I also have the strong impression that her own compatriots (American think-tankers / analysts / ex-diplomats) have a problem with this aspect of her personality. I mean, at several of these seminars in India I have seen her curse out Trump in the nastiest language you can imagine. To treat your own President in this rude/shabby manner on foreign soil is beyond the pale, IMO. By the way, I also think her behaviour towards her own husband is demeaning and belittling when she publicly boasts about her past sexual conquests (with the Paki Army, for example). In that sense she is a typical Western feminazi who believes that the emancipation of women requires the public insulting of men.

It's funny, as a fanatical feminist, she would start screaming vituperation at anyone using the word "hysterical" to describe a woman's behaviour, but there are times when the word is exactly suitable. If she stayed at home (in the US) and bashed Trump, fine. But when she goes on foreign soil and starts screaming invective against her own President before a foreign audience, it is not brave, it is simply petty and hysterical. Not surprising that she worships Hilary Clinton.

Might consider not putting this on a public forum, just weakens our argument. Agree with all other points you have put up.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 15 Dec 2019 16:41

Can Pakistan hold India responsible for religious discrimination? - Raza Habib Raja

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... 3,200_.jpg

A couple of days ago, the controversial Citizenship (Amendment) Act, 2019 was passed by the Lok Sabha (upper house and the Rajya Sabha (lower house) of the Indian Parliament. Due to the discriminatory and exclusionary nature of the act, the Indian government is getting a lot of heat from the international media. Internally also, India has received and continues to receive flak from the liberal sections of the Indian press, Muslims and from populations of the northeastern states of India, who fear that the aforementioned bill will endanger their indigenous culture and languages.

Several international humanitarian organisations, such as the US Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF), Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the United Nations have voiced concerns on the nature of the bill, calling it discriminatory and asking for its review.

Pakistan has also voiced serious concerns, with Prime Minister Imran Khan calling the move a violation of international norms and part of Modi government’s expansionist and fascist agenda. Apart form the PM, Pakistan’s Foreign Office and various ministers have also raised serious concerns. An overwhelming number of ordinary Pakistanis also share similar sentiments.

To be honest, all the concerns raised by the Pakistani government are valid as there is no doubt that the Indian state has been progressively making things worse for the Indian Muslims. This bill has come after a number of discriminatory steps against the Muslims of India, including the revocation of Article 370 and the controversial Ayodhya verdict. What is more worrying is that all these moves seem to be supported by most the Hindu majority.

However, while we as Pakistanis may be factually correct about developments in India, our case is morally weak. This is because Pakistan by no stretch of imagination is itself a fair country for its minorities. We will only have an effective normative case against India if as a society we are better than them. Unfortunately, while we correctly accuse the Indian state, laws and population of mistreatment of minorities, our own record in this regard is by no stretch of imagination commendable.

According to Minority Rights Index, Pakistan ranks as the ninth worst country in the world. Various minorities such as Christians, Hindus, Ahmadis and Shias have been the target of various forms of religious extremism and bigotryMoreover, like India, Pakistan’s minorities are not merely discriminated against by the population but also by the state in the form of several discriminatory laws that are a part of the Constitution of Pakistan. In fact, such laws are a relatively new phenomenon in India and were introduced after Modi’s victory in 2014, while in Pakistan these laws have existed for several decades now.

For example, Pakistan’s infamous blasphemy laws came into existence during Zia’s regime in 1986 and have still not been amended or removed, despite the bloodshed over their implementation. Ironically, these laws were rooted in the religious offences related laws set for the Subcontinent by the British in 1860. While such laws are supposed to apply to all faiths, it is still often argued that they disproportionately target minorities, particularly the Christians and Ahmadis.

With respect to Ahmadis our legal record is perhaps the worst with Pakistan passing legislation to actually declare Ahmadis as non-Muslim in 1974. Not only that, the state introduced several laws that further marginalised the community. According to Ordinance XX promulgated under Zia’s regime, Ahmadis are prohibited to even call themselves Muslims and not allowed to even recite Islamic text as prayers.

Recently, I had the opportunity of watching Human Rights Minister Shireen Mazari’s interview, during which she initially downplayed the Shia genocide by framing it as sectarian violence.

I have written before also, that deeming the Shia genocide, sectarian conflict trivialises the problem. Back then, I wrote,

“This framing also creates a misconception that this is a two-way conflict which has active Iran-backed Shia involvement in it. While this may be true in Syria and Iraq, the reality is that in Pakistan, there is no conflict, only unidirectional violence against a minority.”

Following her remarks on Shias, the minister claimed that Ahmadis, despite being forcefully declared a minority, still enjoy the entire spectrum of political rights in Pakistan, which is completely false. In Pakistan, Ahmadis are the only community who don’t have the right to vote in the joint electorate. In 1985, the Zia regime reversed universal voting rights and introduced a system of separate electorates, according to which non-Muslims had to register according to their faith and could only vote for non-Muslim candidates.

This system was obviously discriminatory against the minorities and after decades of protests, the Musharraf regime abolished the same and restored the original joint electorate system but without changing the status of Ahmadis. So while the rest of Pakistan has moved back to a single electoral list, Ahmadis are the only community who still can’t vote in a joint electoral system.

The discrimination against minorities such as Ahmadis is not restricted to the laws sanctioned by the state alone but is also rampantly perpetuated by the general population. Let’s not forget that several Ahmadi mosques have been attacked, the members of their community have been harassed, and even their graves have been desecrated. In 2018, an extremely brilliant economist, Atif Mian (an Ahamdi by faith) was forced out of the economic council due to extreme public pressure and to this date, we have not acknowledged our first Nobel Laureate, Dr Abdul Salam for the same reason.

The sad reality is that contrary to what Mazari claims, Ahmadis are not even considered second class citizens. About two days ago, I watched a sickening video where an assistant commissioner got into trouble for merely saying that we should not discriminate against Ahmadis. She had not even called them Muslims but was targeted for merely suggesting that we should be tolerant and kind towards them. She was forced to ‘clarify’ her stance while being heckled by college boys. The sad reality is that in this country, calling someone an Ahmadi has become a dangerous and yet effective ploy for inflicting political damage.

After seeing her ordeal, especially the way the student spoke to her with a volume of hate in his voice, I seriously wonder what moral ground do we have to lament the treatment of minorities by the Indian state and population. In many ways our behaviour is the same and in some respects, even worse.

Cheers

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 16 Dec 2019 18:20

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 749231.cms

And this 'Pearl of Wisdom' from Dimran
I thought the whole Quam was bigoted not just the Jihadis!!!

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 16 Dec 2019 23:32

X-post from Strategy and Political dhaga

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:
Mukesh.Kumar wrote:A Brussels based NGO claims to have unearthed a huge Indian Indian disinfo network. And the usual suspects like al Bartanias PeePeeSee and our very own scroll giving it prominent billing.

A pro-Indian network designed to influence policymakers

Searched around but could find nothing on the antecedents of the NGO. Seems a cat's paw but willing to be corrected.

Only link is this French site which raises questions on provenance.
Further article linking their disingenuous methods.

But now that the horse is out of the gate I wonder how this news can be combatted

P.S. If this is true, then I say bully for us. We seriously need to up the game. And this is a right step.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 17 Dec 2019 03:49

Im the Dim has been bitch slapped by Saudi Arabia for trying to become an active member of a Iran-Turkey-Malaysia Islamic Bloc. He has been forbidden from playing any meaningful role and participation in an upcoming conference of these countries in Malaysia. He is desperately pleading and seeking permission to attend as otherwise his/porkistani status as a rent boy taking orders from Saudi Arabia and being full of gas will be exposed before Iran Turkey and Malaysia.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 17 Dec 2019 04:12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0P8smMjc2g

Caliph of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community

Cheers

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 17 Dec 2019 04:18

Vips wrote:Im the Dim has been bitch slapped by Saudi Arabia for trying to become an active member of a Iran-Turkey-Malaysia Islamic Bloc. He has been forbidden from playing any meaningful role and participation in an upcoming conference of these countries in Malaysia. He is desperately pleading and seeking permission to attend as otherwise his/porkistani status as a rent boy taking orders from Saudi Arabia and being full of gas will be exposed before Iran Turkey and Malaysia.

Vips JI :

Any Source for the above statement please.

Cheers

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 17 Dec 2019 05:35

Cheers

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 17 Dec 2019 05:55

Murtaza Solangi
@murtazasolangi
By opting out of the Kaula Lumpur summit, Imran Khan has effectively stood against the only countries that stood by Pakistan on Kashmir issue after August, 5. It means Pakistan has practically accepted Modi solution of Kashmir.

None of the media seems to be reporting on it yet but the rumours are doing the rounds.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 17 Dec 2019 06:00

Peregrine wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0P8smMjc2g

Caliph of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community

Cheers

The sheer arrogance and sense of entitlement of this mullah beggars belief. This is a fellow who represents a community that has been declared as apostates by Muslims and persecuted by Pakistan (ironically only western countries and India have given them shelter), and he goes off on a lecture/rant on US domestic politics and how anti-Muslim laws can lead to a civil war in the US!

And there were some liberal idiots claiming that Ahmediyas were persecuted in Pakistan so should be in the citizenship list, despite the fact that they were among the biggest proponents of the 2 nation theory. In fact despite all the persecution, these people still hate India much more than Pakistan.

VikramA · Post by **VikramA** » 17 Dec 2019 09:42

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/china- ... =TOIMobile
something is up at LOC. Paki FM has written to UNSC that india has taken down fences at LOC at 5 sectors

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 17 Dec 2019 12:34

Vips wrote:Im the Dim has been bitch slapped by Saudi Arabia for trying to become an active member of a Iran-Turkey-Malaysia Islamic Bloc. He has been forbidden from playing any meaningful role and participation in an upcoming conference of these countries in Malaysia. He is desperately pleading and seeking permission to attend as otherwise his/porkistani status as a rent boy taking orders from Saudi Arabia and being full of gas will be exposed before Iran Turkey and Malaysia.

What do you mean ? Are you saying that Islamists are not aware of every Paki being a rent boy of KSA and full of Pindi Chana.
It was known to Islamic world even before they became Pakis.
A mainstream KSA supported Sunni country joining the block would have been a major coup for Calipha from Turkey but alas! He is not 3.5 father of Al-Bakis.
What is Malaysia's beef with KSA to be joining Iran or is it the last defiance of Grand Old man of Malaysia ?

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 17 Dec 2019 13:18

Death Sentence to Musharraf in high treason case

Pakistan court hands death penalty to former president Pervez Musharraf on charges relating to the imposition of extra-constitutional emergency in November 2007

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 17 Dec 2019 13:26

Wasn't it that Gen Mushfraf imposed emergency/coup after he was summarily demoted during a flight by then PM as if only the Gen Mushraf knew of entire kargil war going on at border.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 17 Dec 2019 13:37

Musharraf treason case: Special court hands death penalty to former military ruler

This Post has an embedded Video - Please Watch and post an English Translation - if Possible.

I do not understand Urdu. TIA

Cheers

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 17 Dec 2019 13:45

Pakistan sentences Musharraf to death in absentia. BBC.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-50819772

Pervez Musharraf: Pakistan ex-leader sentenced to death for treason

The three-member court sentenced him over a high treason charge that has been pending against him since 2013

More from thenews.com/pk

Special court hands death penalty to Pervez Musharraf in high treason case

A special court hearing the high treason case against former president General (retd) Pervez Musharraf on Tuesday handed the former ruler a death sentence under Article 6 of the Constitution of Pakistan.

The case was heard by a special bench comprising Justice Waqar Ahmad Seth of the Peshawar High Court, Justice Shahid Karim of the Lahore High Court and Justice Nazar Akbar of the Sindh High Court. The bench was formed on the orders of the Supreme Court.

The court, in its short order said it had analysed complaints, records, arguments and facts in the case for three months. The court added it had found Musharraf guilty of high treason according to Article 6 of the Constitution of Pakistan for imposing the state of emergency on November 03, 2007.

It was a majority verdict, with two of the three judges giving the decision against Musharraf.

Justice Seth added a detailed verdict will be issued later.

Earlier, the special court hearing the high treason case against the former president had said it would announce the verdict on December 17 even if arguments of both sides were not completed by then.

It is pertinent to mention here the special court on November 19 had said the verdict in the case would be announced on November 28, before the Islamabad High Court (IHC) barred it from doing so.

High treason case

The Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) government had filed the treason case against Musharraf over the former dictator's imposition of extra-constitutional emergency in November 2007.

Head of the prosecution, Mohammad Akram Sheikh had tendered his resignation. In his resignation letter sent to the interior secretary, Sheikh expressed his inability to proceed with the case after the imminent change of government at the centre.

Sheikh was appointed as the head of the prosecution in the case in November 2013, by the then-PML-N led government.

The former army chief was indicted in the case in March 2014 after he appeared before the court. He had rejected all the charges.

On March 18, 2016, the former president left Pakistan for Dubai for medical treatment after his name was removed from the exit control list on the orders of the Supreme Court.

A few months later, the special court had declared him a proclaimed offender and ordered the confiscation of his property owing to his continuous inability to appear.

Later, his passport and identity card were also cancelled on the orders of the apex court.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 17 Dec 2019 13:56

a_bharat wrote:Death Sentence to Musharraf in high treason case

Pakistan court hands death penalty to former president Pervez Musharraf on charges relating to the imposition of extra-constitutional emergency in November 2007

May be HM should ask Jamia "Burkha" students if India can add giving citizenship to Mush in CAB (.......then hang him where Kasab was hanged)

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 17 Dec 2019 14:01

VikramA wrote:https://m.timesofindia.com/india/china- ... =TOIMobile
something is up at LOC. Paki FM has written to UNSC that india has taken down fences at LOC at 5 sectors

The Chinese request comes after Pakistan foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi wrote a letter to the president of the UNSC, US Ambassador Kelly Craft, over the weekend, alleging Delhi was making preparations to “dismember” Islamabad.

He also alleged that India had partially removed fences along five sectors of the LOC. Qureshi suggested India may mount a “false flag” operation, and asked the UNSC to strengthen United Nations Military Observer Group In India and Pakistan (UNMOGIP), which monitors the LOC, but only on the Pakistani side, since India has refused access for several years now.

The constant Chinese effort to open J&K at UNSC makes me thing that China and Islamabad NOW want the LOC to be declared an "International Border" by the UNSC.

1. Bakistan, because of H&D issue, does not want to be seen as seeking a LOC==IB neither does it want the proposal from the Chinese, its close friend.
2. Bakis want the closure because they are really afraid now that Indian might attempt to change the status quo which they will not be able to defend or reverse and that will be a massive loss. On a UNSC directive they can at least pass the buck and cry bucket before "reluctantly giving in to global blackmail" and after having been seen by its own people "dragged kicking and screaming" to the table.
3. China wants to get this does to close the "unsettled" nature of CPEC main artery. Once LOC ==IB, it knows India will respect that line for the foreseeable future.
4. BOTH want the directive to come from UNSC, partly to cover their H&D individually and collectively and partly for its signalling quality. Anything form UNSC is FINAL in the current geo-political setup.

Else, the Qureshi letter does not make sense. It provides the logic for the UNSC intervention.

Speculation wonlee ...

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 17 Dec 2019 14:05

Why would India agree to LOC==IB ? Hain Ji, especially when all indicators point ot Pakis going down the Pakistan in few decades time. World may have watches but we have calendars…

Pakis had their chance during Shimla discussions and Zeb blew it spectacularly under the guise of Taqqiyaah.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 17 Dec 2019 14:11

That is true but China wants to protect its investments in Bakistan and the key to all that is Karakoram Highway and for that to take PoK permanently off the table.

What better than have it taken off the table by the UNSC. China will get its certainty and the Baki leadership will get is "victim card" to play with its public while shielding it H&D to a large extent.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 17 Dec 2019 14:27

PM Imran may skip Kuala Lumpur summit

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Imran Khan is unlikely to attend the Kuala Lumpur Summit being hosted by Malaysian counterpart Dr Mahathir Mohamed on the theme, ‘The Role of Development in Achieving National Security’ later this week, sources said on Monday.

Though there has been no official announcement about the December 18-21 summit, a Foreign Office source said Pakistan will be “represented at the summit by Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi”.

According to the Malaysian news agency Bernama, Mahathir devised plans for the summit while meeting with the leaders of Pakistan and Turkey at the UN General Assembly.
On November 23, he announced that his country would host the summit in December.

Meanwhile, Special Assistant to the Prime Minister on Information and Broadcasting Firdous Ashiq Awan said that the decision to attend the summit would be taken “in accordance with national interests”.

“The prime minister is currently in Bahrain and will later visit Geneva. He will return to the country on Wednesday [tomorrow] and [the government] will then decide if he should visit Malaysia,” she told reporters.

PM Imran had earlier confirmed his participation in the summit, which will also be attended by leaders of Turkey, Qatar and Iran.

Around 450 leaders, scholars, clerics, and thinkers from 52 countries are expected to attend the event.

However, according to the media in the Middle East, the summit is seen as an attempt to create a new bloc in the Muslim world that could become an alternative to the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation – an idea that upsets Saudi Arabia.

But talking to a private TV channel during PM Imran’s daylong Riyadh visit on Saturday, Qureshi negated the perception that the summit was being raised as a parallel platform or against the OIC.

“The elements desiring to create discord among the Muslim world are creating such perceptions,” he said.

“Dr Mahathir Mohamed has already organised four [similar] sessions as his private initiative before assuming the office of the Malaysian prime minister,” he said.

“He [the Malaysian prime minister] is now trying to give it a formal shape,” Qureshi said, adding that Dr Mahathir had sent his foreign minister to Riyadh to extend a formal invitation for the summit, considering Saudi Arabia an important member of the Muslim world.

The plan for the summit was finalised in the second ministerial meeting in the Qatari capital.

Speaking at the meeting, Qureshi said that Pakistan fully supported the initiative of Dr Mahathir to bring five Muslim nations together to achieve socioeconomic development.

He endorsed his statement that “we are not here to challenge any existing organisation or directing our cooperation against any third party”.

Qureshi said that “we have to create a knowledge-seeking culture for our youth, who are going to be the future leaders, at all levels.”

Cheers

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 17 Dec 2019 14:48

Bart S wrote:^+100 Most probably wont like everything that she says or agree 100% with her on everything but there is no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Regarding Pakistan specifically, she exposes Paki perfidy much better than most desis and we should use that where we can - that need not be conflated with her other views that may make less sense. She is not Indian and it is delusional to expect her to support the Indian POV 100% - she is looking out first for her own and then American interests. But that does not mean that we should not leverage her work where we can.

There is a difference between accepting that someone is not 100% pro-India and deciding to live with blatant disrespect of India and Indians by a person just because their agenda somewhat, sometimes, is embarrassing to India's enemies.

When faced with such open and blatant disrespect of India and Indians on the part of other Indians, I feel sadness and sometimes anger. When such behavior is from non-Indians, I feel loathing and contempt. It doesn't matter to me if they target even the most miserable Indian street cur, let alone an Indian who may belong to some religion about which I may have severe reservations.

I can't think of what such creatures can offer to persuade me to get over that feeling.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 17 Dec 2019 14:56

pankajs wrote:That is true but China wants to protect its investments in Bakistan and the key to all that is Karakoram Highway and for that to take PoK permanently off the table.

What better than have it taken off the table by the UNSC. China will get its certainty and the Baki leadership will get is "victim card" to play with its public while shielding it H&D to a large extent.

Assuming it to be the Chinese strategy, Why would other world powers agree to it knowing that a festering Indo-Pak wound helps them sell weapons to India and also keeps CPEC on the tenterhooks. It is win-win for them. I don't believe that any western power wants to help China strategically, Even Russia just might not sing along.

Moreover do Chinese really need CPEC or it is just an ruse to take over Baki land and use it as outpost right at the edge of Persian gulf. Rest all is Maya.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 17 Dec 2019 16:26

What if Gilgit and POK, is made into a province, and absorbed into pakistan. what can India Do?
By my info, this is happening.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 17 Dec 2019 17:37

Moreover do Chinese really need CPEC or it is just an ruse to take over Baki land and use it as outpost right at the edge of Persian gulf. Rest all is Maya.

Chinese want to loot water from glaciers in pok as well, under some excuses (industry, like semiconductor). Pakis will hit themselves, and others, on the foot while Chinese will make geographical re-engineering and claim legitimacy for such re-engineering.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 17 Dec 2019 18:51

Peregrine wrote:
Vips wrote:Im the Dim has been bitch slapped by Saudi Arabia for trying to become an active member of a Iran-Turkey-Malaysia Islamic Bloc. He has been forbidden from playing any meaningful role and participation in an upcoming conference of these countries in Malaysia. He is desperately pleading and seeking permission to attend as otherwise his/porkistani status as a rent boy taking orders from Saudi Arabia and being full of gas will be exposed before Iran Turkey and Malaysia.
Vips JI :

Any Source for the above statement please.

Cheers

Pergrineji watch from 2:20 onwards till 3:30.

In addition there was another AV i watched which had the details i will try to get it.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 18 Dec 2019 00:35

Vips wrote:Im the Dim has been bitch slapped by Saudi Arabia for trying to become an active member of a Iran-Turkey-Malaysia Islamic Bloc. He has been forbidden from playing any meaningful role and participation in an upcoming conference of these countries in Malaysia. He is desperately pleading and seeking permission to attend as otherwise his/porkistani status as a rent boy taking orders from Saudi Arabia and being full of gas will be exposed before Iran Turkey and Malaysia.

Peregrine wrote:Vips JI :

Any Source for the above statement please.

Cheers

Vips wrote:watch from 2:20 onwards till 3:30.

In addition there was another AV i watched which had the details i will try to get it.

Vips Ji :

Sir Ji - Many thanks indeed.

Cheers

NehraA · Post by **NehraA** » 18 Dec 2019 00:52

Request for help with details of
-Pak Military orbat
-latest development on CPEC
-list of terrorist training camps and loc of camps and launch pads
-pak space program
-capabilities of f-16

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 18 Dec 2019 02:00

PM Imran Khan cancels Malaysia trip after Saudi Arabia visit

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Imran Can't and has cancelled his scheduled visit to Malaysia and Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi will be representing Pakistan in his place at the Kuala Lumpur Summit scheduled for December 18-20.

Among the most notable Muslim leaders who are expected to attend the summit include Qatari Emir Sheikh Tamim Hamad Al Thani, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Iranian President Hassan Rouhani.

Media reports quoting sources stated that the premier has cancelled the visit following his meeting with Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman in Riyadh.

“Saudi Arabia raised serious concerns over the statement of Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohammad who had recently said that the Muslim countries at Kuala Lumpur Summit would form a new platform to replace the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) which he said had failed to deliver the goods on issues faced by the Muslims across the world,” sources were quoted as saying.

Sources also said that Saudi Arabia and its allies, including the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Kuwait and Bahrain are perturbed over the expected presence of Qatari emir, Turkish president and Iranian president at the summit and fear a new but parallel leadership forum is being developed to undermine Saudi Arabia and its allies.

Sources further said that the UAE has also raised its concerns over Mahathir’s statement and has requested Pakistan to avoid the Kuala Lumpur Summit which may trigger a new controversy among the Muslim Ummah.

“PM Imran was also conveyed concerns by Bahrain’s King Hamad Bin Isa Al-Khalifa over the intentions of the Kuala Lumpur Summit. The premier assured the royals of Saudi Arabia and Bahrain that he would not be a part of any scheme being planned to undermine the Gulf leadership,” sources were quoted as saying.

They said that UAE’s Emir Sheikh Mohammed Bin Zayed Al Nahyan had raised his concerns with Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Qamar Javed Bajwa two days ago on December 14. NATURELLEMENT - After all in Terroristan the Army has the Country

Meanwhile, Special Assistant to Prime Minister on Information and Broadcasting Dr Firdous Ashiq Awan said decision about Imran Khan’s visit to Malaysia to attend the Kuala Lumpur Summit will be taken according to national interest.

She noted that after his Bahrain visit, the prime minister will go to Geneva and then return Pakistan Wednesday and then a decision would be taken regarding his Malaysia visit. There were reports that the prime minister would be attending the upcoming summit from December 19 to 21. It is pertinent that the summit was finalised during a trilateral meeting involving Turkey, Pakistan and Malaysia in September in New York on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly session. Among others, the summit will be attended by leaders of Turkey, Qatar and Iran besides, Malaysia playing the host
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pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Dec 2019 02:58

menon s wrote:What if Gilgit and POK, is made into a province, and absorbed into pakistan. what can India Do?
By my info, this is happening.

The bakis themselves say

1. LOC != IB
2. J&K an unfinished agenda

Therefore, it is unfinished agenda without a border between India and Bakistan. Bas. Finis. Zimple.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 18 Dec 2019 03:15

Peregrine wrote:PM Imran Khan cancels Malaysia trip after Saudi Arabia visit

Amazing turn of events - truly only possible in Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
Remember only a few months ago in UN - Im Dim was ecstatic about the reception to his pompous, 45 minute speech on Islamophobia and his plans for a new Muslim organization together w/ Turkey and Malaysia. He landed back in Islamabad and exclaimed that "aisa lag ra ha hai ki main World Cup jeet kar aaya hoon". Few months later, the reality strikes when he's summoned to Riyadh and slapped by the Crown Prince - the self-described Pakistani ambassador to Saudi Arabia. His boss - Bajwa is bi**ch slapped too and asks Im the Dim to lay off the Malaysia trip.

Feel like Pak has so many fathers - China, Saudi, Turkey, US - it should take out "sovereign" from its constitution.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 18 Dec 2019 03:29

What if Gilgit and POK, is made into a province, and absorbed into pakistan.

There is actually a 2017 resolution of the British parliament on this

https://www.governancenow.com/news/regu ... tbaltistan

That this House condemns the arbitrary announcement by Pakistan declaring Gilgit-Baltistan as its Fifth Frontier, implying its attempt to annex the already disputed area.

Notes that Gilgit-Baltistan is a legal and constitutional part of the state of Jammu and Kashmir, India.

It is illegally occupied by Pakistan since 1947, and where people are denied their fundamental rights including the right of freedom of expression.

Notes the attempts to change the demography of the region in violation of State Subject Ordinance.

Forcibly and illegally building the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, which further aggravates and interferes with the disputed territory.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 18 Dec 2019 03:31

Btw, Baltistan is part of the original Ladakh Wazarat. It was never part of Gilgit. Jammu and Kashmir Princely state comprised Jammu province, Kashmir valley, Ladakh Wazarat and Gilgit Wazarat. A part of Gilgit was leased to the British as Gilgit Agency.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 18 Dec 2019 04:20

X Posted on the J&K Union Territory Thread

UNSC members force China to bury request for K-debate

NEW DELHI: Faced with opposition from key members of the UN security council, China quietly withdrew its request for a discussion on Kashmir which was earlier scheduled for Tuesday.

The Indian government remained tight-lipped, with official sources saying, “India is not a member of the UN Security Council, so we are not in the room.” However, other countries confirmed China had chosen discretion as the better part of valour. French diplomatic sources asserted, “Kashmir will not be discussed in the security council today. Our position has been very clear: Kashmir issue has to be treated bilaterally. We have highlighted this several times recently, including in New York.”

The thwarting of China’s plans will be a relief for India with officials seeing the move as coinciding with Pakistan’s fresh attempts to raise protests in India over the Citizenship Amendment Act.

As first reported by TOI, China had requested informally for a discussion on Kashmir under the “other business” head. This was seen as an effort to embarrass India, on behalf of all-weather ally Pakistan. However, the Chinese proposal faced a significant pushback from other UNSC members, which ended with a quiet withdrawal.

India and China are scheduled to hold what promises to be an important round of bilateral boundary talks this weekend between national security adviser and special representative Ajit Doval and his Chinese counterpart state counsellor Wang Yi. As first reported by TOI, the boundary talks are scheduled for December 21

In August, during foreign minister S Jaishankar’s visit to China, the Chinese side had hinted at “early harvest” proposals on the boundary. However, these failed to see the light of day, When Wang Yi was visiting Pakistan and Nepal early September, India indicated that the time was “not ripe” for a boundary discussion. This was just after China attempted to pin down India on J&K at the UNSC in midAugust.

The two boundary special representatives also met on the sidelines of the Mahabalipuram summit between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chinese President Xi Jinping. This weekend’s meeting has been accorded very high importance by the Indian government, where along with boundary talks, Doval and Wang are expected to hold a strategic dialogue on issues of importance.

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