Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

srin · Post by **srin** » 24 Dec 2019 08:10

Thakur_B wrote:
Raghunathgb wrote:The @DRDO_India developed #QRSAM successfully engaged the aerial target establishing its capability. With this, developmental trials of the QRSAM weapon system are completed and weapon system is expected to be ready for induction by 2021.

That was quick. A big round of applause for DRDO, BEL and BDL.

Okay, now I can see the reason for the hit job on Akash couple of weeks ago. Didn't realise that QRSAM was so far along.
If QRSAM is successful, which missile we won't import ? That should point to the source.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 24 Dec 2019 08:31

ArjunPandit wrote:...next war would be fought/won with desi weapons...i wish it also included arjun tanks..we are quite well placed on artillery, ...,.
I think the hardest nut to crack is DGMF...for armoured vehicles including tanks..lets hope they know what they are doing and that is the best ...

Come now! The DGMF’s weapons of choice, the best of the best went to the Tank biathlon and ingloriously Could not even finish the course. Forget winning!!

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 24 Dec 2019 12:16

Ministry of Defence
Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile successfully flight-tested off Odisha coast
Posted On: 23 DEC 2019 3:37PM by PIB Delhi
Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile (QRSAM) system developed by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was successfully flight-tested from Integrated Test Range, Chandipur off the Odisha coast at 1145 hrs today. The missile was flight-tested with full configuration in deployment mode intercepting the target mid-air, meeting the mission objectives. The entire event was monitored by Ground Telemetry Systems, Range Radar Systems, Electro Optical Tracking System etc.

The QRSAM weapon system, which operates on the move, comprises of fully automated Command and Control System, Active Array Battery Surveillance Radar, Active Array Battery Multi function Radar and Launcher. Both radars are four-walled having 360-degree coverage with search on move and track on move capability. The system is compact with minimum number of vehicles for a firing unit. Single stage solid propelled missile has mid course inertial navigation system with two-way data link and terminal active seeker developed indigenously by DRDO. The missile successfully engaged the aerial target establishing its capability. Director General (Missiles and Strategic Systems) Shri MSR Prasad was present during the trial.

With this mission, the developmental trials of the weapon system are successfully completed and the weapon system is expected to be ready for induction by 2021.

Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh and Secretary, Department of Defence R&D & Chairman DRDO Dr G Satheesh Reddy have congratulated the teams involved in the flight trials and development of QRSAM.

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Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 24 Dec 2019 13:27

Busy missile testing week, this December:

1) 2 QRSAM tests. Rout says the 1st one was a failure
2) Agni-3
3) 2 Brahmos: land & air launched
4) 2 Pinaka tests, though strictly speaking its artillery

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 24 Dec 2019 13:34

A question on inclined vs VLS. QRSAM needs to make short halts to launch. I am assuming its because of stabilization required because the wheels cannot take the thrust of the missile.

Does VLS offer an advantage here? Because VLS canisters pressure launch the missile out of the tube, wouldn't it impose less stress on the launcher truck? This would mean that we could potentially launch on-the-move.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 24 Dec 2019 14:38

Looks like once we mastered the tech involved we will have shorter development cycle.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 24 Dec 2019 14:46

srin wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:
That was quick. A big round of applause for DRDO, BEL and BDL.
Okay, now I can see the reason for the hit job on Akash couple of weeks ago. Didn't realise that QRSAM was so far along.
If QRSAM is successful, which missile we won't import ? That should point to the source.

SpyDer.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 24 Dec 2019 14:55

Can it be loaded onto our P-15A/B? Barak-8 can be our LR SAM and this the shorter. Right now we are using Barak 8 for both purposes, although it's capable of, but still having a SR SAM is ideal, even Type 45 does so with its Aster missiles.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 24 Dec 2019 15:07

DRDO is developing a separate SRSAM for the Navy.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 24 Dec 2019 15:13

Karan M wrote:DRDO is developing a separate SRSAM for the Navy.

Are you referring to this Karan?

Services Interaction: Major systems developed/to be developed by DRDO and Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) accorded for induction during the period January, 2018 – March, 2019 include: Nag missile system, vertically launched SRSAM

https://mod.gov.in/sites/default/files/MoDAR2018.pdf
page 116.

nrshah · Post by **nrshah** » 24 Dec 2019 15:19

Prem Kumar wrote:A question on inclined vs VLS. QRSAM needs to make short halts to launch. I am assuming its because of stabilization required because the wheels cannot take the thrust of the missile.

Does VLS offer an advantage here? Because VLS canisters pressure launch the missile out of the tube, wouldn't it impose less stress on the launcher truck? This would mean that we could potentially launch on-the-move.

I dont think that is the reason. Unlike pantsir, here radar and launchers travel in different vehicles and hence I think hault is needed to sync between them for launch. It is search and track while move, small hault for fire.
Gurus can share more light though.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 24 Dec 2019 15:23

Karthik S wrote:
Karan M wrote:DRDO is developing a separate SRSAM for the Navy.
Are you referring to this Karan?

Services Interaction: Major systems developed/to be developed by DRDO and Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) accorded for induction during the period January, 2018 – March, 2019 include: Nag missile system, vertically launched SRSAM

https://mod.gov.in/sites/default/files/MoDAR2018.pdf
page 116.

Yes, that's the one. Its VLS, not like the QRSAM slew and fire.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 24 Dec 2019 16:31

Any updates on Supersonic Missile Assisted Release of Torpedo (SMART) ? It's been in the news for couple of years now and I am unable to find latest updates apart from this tweet from sjha.

Saurav Jha@SJha1618
One hugely important DRDO project called the 'Supersonic Missile Assisted Release Torpedo' (SMART) seems to have made some progress with pneumatic ejection tests with dummy torpedoes being carried out. SMART intends to engage naval targets up to *650 km* away

https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/1154730165622022145

John · Post by **John** » 24 Dec 2019 19:16

Karan M wrote:DRDO is developing a separate SRSAM for the Navy.

This is also being discussed in naval thread, the wild card is the RFP for immediate need of 4 systems which Sea Ceptor is also competing in. Honestly given the time frame once the deal is signed for first 4 with foreign vendor I won’t be surprised if navy purchases next 6 as well which will leave SR SAM in limbo.

srin · Post by **srin** » 24 Dec 2019 19:39

Prem Kumar wrote:A question on inclined vs VLS. QRSAM needs to make short halts to launch. I am assuming its because of stabilization required because the wheels cannot take the thrust of the missile.

Does VLS offer an advantage here? Because VLS canisters pressure launch the missile out of the tube, wouldn't it impose less stress on the launcher truck? This would mean that we could potentially launch on-the-move.

It should be the reverse, no ? In an inclined launch, there is no recoil because the exhaust is freely ejected from the back. OTOH, for a VLS, even to do a cold ejection (like the S400 missiles) or a hot launch, there will be the exhaust pushing it down, so it'll have much more stress. That is probably why the S400 launch tubes rest on the ground - which means no mobile firing capability.

John · Post by **John** » 24 Dec 2019 21:24

Where has it been said qrsam cannot fire on the move? I was under the impression it can, it was one of reasons Tor was rejected which russians claim to have fixed in newer version.

https://youtu.be/M2_sqScmBUM

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 25 Dec 2019 00:58

QRSAM needs to take short halts before firing. The track & search radars can do their job on the move, but for firing it has to make short stops.

I'd be curious to know which systems can truly move on the fly - Pantsir seems to be one, though even for them, the jack-support is needed for gun-firing. QRSAM seems to be in a different class compared to Pansir though. Though the latter is a neat combination of gun/radar/missiles in one vehicle, its missiles are command-guided and have a lower range.

John · Post by **John** » 25 Dec 2019 01:10

^ Any open source confirming that it needs to halt prior to firing?

Tor M2 can see fire on the move, see the video above.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 25 Dec 2019 04:54

Yes, it has to halt to fire.

But that is for better accuracy. It is a completely automated system and IIRC halt to fire is just a few seconds. There is no deploying of legs etc. involved.

I am very interested to see the VL systemfor the navy.

nam · Post by **nam** » 25 Dec 2019 05:02

Has it has been tested in this mode? So far the images released are from static test.

I would expect some tests in Rajasthan, in the fire on the move mode.

John · Post by **John** » 25 Dec 2019 09:27

Yes, it has to halt to fire.

Thanks looking at the test launch photos looks like it uses jacks and needs to stabilized.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 25 Dec 2019 12:09

Indranil: thanks for the schematic. I am not sure if jacks are needed or not. In the test firing picture, jacks were used.

Also, how self-sufficient is each CG (Combat Group)? If I was the enemy, I'd target the RCPV, BCPV or the BSR.

It appears like the CGs are independent - the BMFR (multi-function), I presume, will have independent tracking & fire-control capability. I think the 80 Km range refers to the BMFR's tracking range, with the BFSR providing a 120 Km surveillance capability, thereby giving advance warning to the CGs to counter the threat.

Would be curious to know if the BMFR will have the ability to do surveillance if the BSR or BCPV is taken out.

nam · Post by **nam** » 25 Dec 2019 13:16

http://14.143.90.243/drdo/xrsam-iaf

Seems we have covers out on XRSAM. 250km range, most probably barak8 with Indian kit.

Looks like it will go on In ships.

So the MFStar we saw during the pinaka test, may be in preparation for future xrsam test.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 25 Dec 2019 14:25

nam wrote:http://14.143.90.243/drdo/xrsam-iaf

Seems we have covers out on XRSAM. 250km range, most probably barak8 with Indian kit.

Looks like it will go on In ships.

So the MFStar we saw during the pinaka test, may be in preparation for future xrsam test.

Good find nam sir, it's akin to RIM 174. Hope development and induction happens fast. May be the real estate left unused on P-15A/B ships is to accommodate such missile.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 25 Dec 2019 14:31

Prem Kumar wrote:Indranil: thanks for the schematic. I am not sure if jacks are needed or not. In the test firing picture, jacks were used.

I am more sure than not that jacks are not necessary. I remember reading somewhere that from halting to destruction of flying object is under a minute. Flight time is less than 30 seconds.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Dec 2019 14:39

nam wrote:http://14.143.90.243/drdo/xrsam-iaf

Seems we have covers out on XRSAM. 250km range, most probably barak8 with Indian kit.

Looks like it will go on In ships.

So the MFStar we saw during the pinaka test, may be in preparation for future xrsam test.

350 km for larger targets. Its not exactly the Barak-8 but similar in design as we are very familiar with the aero and codesigned the missile.
Will complement the S-400. Targets in bold are the great part, shows system is futuristic and will likely even match and exceed the S-400 in specific capabilities.

Long Range Surface to Air Missile Weapon System for Indian Air Force Indian Air Force has projected a requirement to induct Long Range Surface to Air Missile System to neutralise Aircrafts at Extended Ranges of 250km , Sea Skimming Anti-Ship Missiles (AShM) , AWACS at ranges of 350km, Stealth Fighters and Ballistic Missile in the terminal stage. The entire system shall be designed for transportability. Indian Air Force has accepted the Configuration.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Dec 2019 14:41

Prem Kumar wrote:It appears like the CGs are independent - the BMFR (multi-function), I presume, will have independent tracking & fire-control capability. I think the 80 Km range refers to the BMFR's tracking range, with the BFSR providing a 120 Km surveillance capability, thereby giving advance warning to the CGs to counter the threat.

Would be curious to know if the BMFR will have the ability to do surveillance if the BSR or BCPV is taken out.

BMFR is Battery Multi Function Radar, of course it can do surveillance.

It also carries the DRDO's new EO sight with LRF, TI, Optics, and as a result can be used completely passively for surveillance, and even range using a LRF for completely undetectable attacks against targets without LWS.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Dec 2019 14:45

Also note this. We are basically mastering liquid ramjets completely.
http://14.143.90.243/drdo/technology-cl ... l/2105/182

Supersonic Target system is designed to mimic an incoming supersonic threat. This system would be used to test and evaluate the missile system's capability for a supersonic engagement scenario. STAR system employs a Liquid Ramjet engine to give a pre programmed supersonic cruise trajectory in the altitude bracket of 10m to 10km.

Nothing prevents us from weaponizing it either.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 25 Dec 2019 15:08

The IAF MR-SAM system has a rotating phased array radar. I wonder if we'll have a newer 4-wall phased array radar for the xr-sam.

nam · Post by **nam** » 25 Dec 2019 16:24

I so wish DRDO/GoI hands over some of the SAM production to a private org. QRSAM, AkashNG, XRSAM, VLSAM etc. BDL cannot take on all of these.

It has it's hands full on Akash, Astra, Barak8, Agnis( and other BM).

We need to create our own Raytheon / MDBA.

DPSU are sucking out all the opportunities for export.

mody · Post by **mody** » 25 Dec 2019 16:33

No tests so far of the Navy SRSAM. Would have expected the tests to have started by now, given all the background work done for the Trishul project.
The SRSAM can become the standard SAM for Project 28 and follow on missile corvettes and also as the short range SAM for larger ships like P15A, P15B and P17A. 16 missiles for each of these ships would be a good addition.

The testing will be more complex for the VL-SRSAM due to the rolling and pitching of the ship and also due to the sea clutter for the guidance. Though I think some of the problems of the sea clutter have been solved as part of the Trishul project.
Will the radar setup for the SRSAM be the same?

nam · Post by **nam** » 25 Dec 2019 16:43

mody wrote: The testing will be more complex for the VL-SRSAM due to the rolling and pitching of the ship and also due to the sea clutter for the guidance. Though I think some of the problems of the sea clutter have been solved as part of the Trishul project.
Will the radar setup for the SRSAM be the same?

This should not be a problem anymore, due to Barak8. SRSAM will be for all purpose with be QRSAM with Barak8 algo.

John · Post by **John** » 25 Dec 2019 17:24

The SRSAM can become the standard SAM for Project 28

SRSAM will not arm P28.

https://theprint.in/defence/european-de ... ct/295944/

Karthik S wrote:Good find nam sir, it's akin to RIM 174. Hope development and induction happens fast. May be the real estate left unused on P-15A/B ships is to accommodate such missile.

Not sure there is space below deck for another launcher, it would eliminate refit costs if missile can use existing Barak-8 launchers or dual packed into Brahmos launchers.

srai · Post by **srai** » 25 Dec 2019 19:09

nam wrote:http://14.143.90.243/drdo/xrsam-iaf

Seems we have covers out on XRSAM. 250km range, most probably barak8 with Indian kit.

Looks like it will go on In ships.

So the MFStar we saw during the pinaka test, may be in preparation for future xrsam test.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 25 Dec 2019 19:43

Yuck, that DRDO website is such steaming pile of turd, they can get a slick "professional" looking website for a few thousand a year, when will they learn?
Anyways here's the same image with a more realistic aspect ratio.

John · Post by **John** » 25 Dec 2019 19:54

Missile looks similar to Barak-8 the booster looks different ( and bigger ) than the one displayed for Barak-8 ER.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 25 Dec 2019 20:50

abhik wrote:Yuck, that DRDO website is such steaming pile of turd, they can get a slick "professional" looking website for a few thousand a year, when will they learn?
Anyways here's the same image with a more realistic aspect ratio.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 26 Dec 2019 00:21

If XRSAM is Barak8 + Back end of AAD missile, then it might mean an import (?) And will also kill off any prospect of AAD being developed as a SAM.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 26 Dec 2019 08:49

The SMART supersonic torpedo delivery system out to 650km is mystifying as as of now, none of our ASW assets,below or above water have sonars with that detection range! Moreover, LRMP aircraft like P-8s, IL-38s and ASW helos have integral ASW munitions,mostly torpedoes, to instantly deal with the contact instead of calling through NCW for cooperativd engagement during which time the contact may take evasive measures,deeper diving,etc. I wonder whose wet dream has conceived of this programme. Far more useful in prosecuting UW threats is in developing as the USN is doing ,long endurance UUVs and unmanned surface combatants like the Sea Hunter. Though unarmed for now and at 135+t, the Sea Hunter is eminently capable of improved versions to carry ASW munitions.After detection of an enemy sub, the ( initial model unarmed) SH could call upon ASW air assets like the LRMP to despatch the target to
Davy Jones' locker.

titash · Post by **titash** » 26 Dec 2019 14:26

Philip wrote:The SMART supersonic torpedo delivery system out to 650km is mystifying as as of now, none of our ASW assets,below or above water have sonars with that detection range! Moreover, LRMP aircraft like P-8s, IL-38s and ASW helos have integral ASW munitions,mostly torpedoes, to instantly deal with the contact instead of calling through NCW for cooperativd engagement during which time the contact may take evasive measures,deeper diving,etc. I wonder whose wet dream has conceived of this programme. Far more useful in prosecuting UW threats is in developing as the USN is doing ,long endurance UUVs and unmanned surface combatants like the Sea Hunter. Though unarmed for now and at 135+t, the Sea Hunter is eminently capable of improved versions to carry ASW munitions.After detection of an enemy sub, the ( initial model unarmed) SH could call upon ASW air assets like the LRMP to despatch the target to
Davy Jones' locker.

The 650 km is a typo. Should be 65 km which is beyond shipborne HWT range and within TAS detection range. With only 20-30 large helicopters and a dozen or so serviceable at any given point in time, it makes eminent sense to develop and use an ASROC type weapon. The flight decks of our frigates/destroyers are empty unfortunately have have been so for a decade now. As a consequence, notice the P-17A have only 1 hanger and 1 helo. SMART/ASROC is the way to go