Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 28 Dec 2019 01:29

Cain Marko wrote:
Kartik wrote:That argument won't fly. the Su-34 is not more capable in any way than the MKI.
Sure boss whatever you say, it only flies longer and carries much more because of its inferiority.

Like I said, neither of which are going to interest the IAF since the MKI flies far enough, long enough and carries enough for the IAF's needs. Just carrying more and for longer but being less maneuverable and being single role, the Su-34 is hardly the type that the IAF needs.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 28 Dec 2019 02:38

Rahul M wrote:
Kartik wrote:That argument won't fly. the Su-34 is not more capable in any way than the MKI.
Hah ! The Platypus has a toilet on board, beat that !

The toilet is hand held and looks like a miniature vacuum cleaner.

srai · Post by **srai** » 28 Dec 2019 03:01

^^^

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 28 Dec 2019 04:04

That is the Su-34 toilet ?

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 28 Dec 2019 04:10

Gerard wrote:That is the Su-34 toilet ?

Question should be - is that all AirChairWarriors fantasize about

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Dec 2019 07:50

Gerard wrote:That is the Su-34 toilet ?

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 28 Dec 2019 13:33

No.29 'Scorpions' to be numberplated following the retirement of the MiG-27M Bahadur.

As per sources quoted by Zee TV's Sudhir Chaudhary, it will be re-raised next year on the Su-30MKI.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Dec 2019 14:09

Rahul M wrote:
Gerard wrote:That is the Su-34 toilet ?
[https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7b/d9/22 ... ac5d0e.jpg

That's the Burans space shuttle's loo.

Gerard, the prior pic is correct. Just a hand held thingy. Beats diapers though.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 28 Dec 2019 15:06

Don't forget the coffee and sandwiches too, Comrade

The strangest things in the cockpit of a Russian Su-34

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 29 Dec 2019 20:52

IAF fighter jet fleet in need of immediate attention

Tribune News Service

New Delhi, December 28

With the MiG-27 fleet having been phased out of the Indian Air Force (IAF), reducing the fighting fleet further, the Ministry of Defence will now push for faster production of Tejas fighter jets and look for other options.

Squadrons being phased out

The IAF has 31 squadrons (16-18 planes in each) as against the mandated 42 for two-front war with Pakistan and China

Of these are some half a dozen MiG 21 squadrons that are being phased out gradually. The fleet of 100-odd Jaguar jets will start getting phased out from 2025

As of yesterday, the IAF was having 31 squadrons (16-18 planes in each) as against the mandated 42 for simultaneous two-front war with Pakistan and China. Off these are some half a dozen MiG 21 squadrons that are also being phased out gradually. The engine upgrade of the Jaguar jets has been shelved and the fleet of 100-odd jets will start getting phased out from 2025 onwards.

Another squadron of the Sukhoi 30 MKI is being raised at Thanjavur early next year.

The first lot of Rafale jets from France will start arriving early next year. A total of 36 are on order. Separately, a global tender is out in the open, asking foreign companies to come and make 114 jets in India. It is slowly inching forward.

Pakistan has rolled out the first batch of its eight indigenous fighter jets, manufactured in collaboration with its all-weather ally China

Pakistan's Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan, Chinese Ambassador Yao Jing and Aviation Industries of China Vice President Hao Zhaoping were present during the rollout near Islamabad PTI

The real issue is with the pace of the domestic production of fighter jets and the IAF has suggested to the government that it needed a speedier “make in India” by public sector giant Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.

Over the next 16-18 years, the IAF would require more than 300 jets made by the HAL. At the present pace of 11-12 planes per annum, the HAL would take 25-26 years to make various versions of Tejas, Tejas Mark II (called medium-weight fighter) and also the advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA), a fifth generation state-of-the-art plane. All three planes are part of the projected 300 jets.

The IAF wanted the HAL to ramp up to make 16 planes per annum and outsource work, so that the speed could be increased to 20 planes. The HAL reports to the Department of Defence Production in the Ministry of Defence (MoD). The HAL is listed to make 40 Tejas Mark1 jets. The order for the remaining 83 for the the Tejas Mark 1A, which will come with 43 improvements, needs to be placed immediately.

The IAF has told the MoD that it would need 170 (10 squadrons) Tejas Mark II (known as MWF) planes, the test flight of which is slated for 2022.

nam · Post by **nam** » 29 Dec 2019 21:13

The IAF wanted the HAL to ramp up to make 16 planes per annum

Repeating my quote. You cannot have 16/24 per year with only 16 jets on order. Not even a half brained company will do it. HAL is doing only 12 per year, because it knows the lines will be idle and is deliberately wants to keep it occupied as long it can.

Someone should ask this obvious question to IAF.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 29 Dec 2019 23:41

^^^ You cannot buy if you do not have the money, ask GOI why there is no money / sufficient budget allocation to pay.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 29 Dec 2019 23:42

Has IAF signed the order for 83 LCAs even? They reduced the price 20% - try doing that for Rafales! And then demanding that facilities for a mere even 83 a/c to produce at 16 per year - I call it treason!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 30 Dec 2019 02:12

https://twitter.com/StrategicNews1/stat ... 6190579715 ---> Visual difference between conventional and modernized MiG-29 fighters of the Indian Air Force.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 30 Dec 2019 02:29

one easy solution lying there is order 2-3 years worth of FOC LCA now so that the line is busy (it is criminal when we are short of 11 SQ, some 200 planes), we are not making some 30 of them when we can. Even in FOC config they will be potent, MK1A will take 2-3 years before its tarts rolling off the assembly line.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Jan 2020 00:51

Thank you Kartik. Greatly appreciated.

Found this news article on the MiG-27 retirement. These pictures (especially the first one) is a good reference. Drag & Drop each image into a new window for the full size.

Demise of Last MiG-27 Unit Stalls IAF 42-Squadron Plan
https://www.deccanherald.com/national/d ... 89945.html

srai · Post by **srai** » 02 Jan 2020 02:33

^^^
Good one. IAF stabilizing at around 30-31 squadrons.

Only questionable point is the Jaguars being labeled as obsolete. Darin-3 upgrades?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 Jan 2020 10:24

Whatever you do to a Jaguar, its Air frame / Engine have limitations, it can be used only of somebody else is there to take care of air superiority.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 02 Jan 2020 10:39

#Resurrection: 222 Sqn 'The Tigersharks' got resurrected today with state of the art Su-30 MKI Multirole Fighter aircraft. Raised on 15 Sep 69 with Su-7, the Sqn was later equipped with #MiG27 Ground Attack Aircraft prior to getting numberplated in 2011.

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1212 ... 11584?s=19

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Jan 2020 15:04

Rakesh wrote:Thank you Kartik. Greatly appreciated.

Found this news article on the MiG-27 retirement. These pictures (especially the first one) is a good reference. Drag & Drop each image into a new window for the full size.

Demise of Last MiG-27 Unit Stalls IAF 42-Squadron Plan
https://www.deccanherald.com/national/d ... 89945.html

A few things I noted from these 2 images

Nal and Kalaikunda have no squadrons based there anymore. Wonder where the No.222 'Tigersharks' squadron will be based.
Also, No.3 Squadron 'Cobras' is missing from the list. They are operational with Bisons at Ambala AFS.

and the figures of the MiG-29UPG are outdated. Most of the fleet has been upgraded to the UPG standard and as I recall, the last vanilla Fulcrum was flown a few months ago for upgrading to UPG standard as well. The numbers for the Mirage-2000 are also seemingly incorrect- the upgrade contract was signed for 51 fighters of which 1 crashed before the upgrade started and 1 Mirage-2000TI crashed after the upgrade. So the numbers should be 49 between 3 squadrons. There is 1 MiG-21MF squadron 'Warriors' based at Pathankot that should also be number-plated soon.

Also, the JF-17 equips 5 squadrons in the PAF now, not 2.

I'll try and compile a list of the number-plated squadrons of the IAF tomorrow. There's quite a few.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 02 Jan 2020 17:11

^^^AFS Bhisiana, close to Bhatinda, is missing from the map. You've a Su-30MKI squadron there. Along with NETRA AEW&C squadron.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 02 Jan 2020 19:49

One thing is clear - not many bases at depth have active squadrons. Most are close to napaki border. It made sense in old days when we mainly had single engine, lower range planes. Can we not have some (not all) these squadrons in little depth (for protection ...hardened shelter provides much of that but distance will also provide.
As of now we have quite a decent amount of 2 seater, 400 out of 600 planes, except for Mig 21 bs, all of them have decent range. They can surge to forward bases in war time.

chola · Post by **chola** » 02 Jan 2020 19:56

Kartik wrote: Also, the JF-17 equips 5 squadrons in the PAF now, not 2.

The PLAAF numbers are a bit off as well (both J-10s and Sino-flankers are nearing 500 each if not more.)

But a good attempt at putting things in visual perspective.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 03 Jan 2020 04:46

Article dates to October 2019, so not that old. Very important to keep the data points mentioned in mind, for future conversations on when legacy types are retiring.

Air Force Chief outlines plan to solve shortage of fighter squadrons

Four days after assuming command of the Indian Air Force (IAF), Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria has described in detail what his fighter fleet will look like a dozen years into the future.

There is already concern that the IAF is down to just 30 fighter squadrons, against the assessed requirement of 42 squadrons. Bhadauria’s plan, unveiled in an interaction with the media on Friday, will only raise numbers to 37 squadrons by 2025, before falling again to 33 squadrons by 2032.

Behind the continuing shortfalls is the impending retirement of the last of six remaining MiG-21 squadrons when their technical life ends in 2021.

In addition, Bhadauria announced that six Jaguar squadrons would retire in the early 2020s, since it would be too costly to equip them with new engines needed to extend their service lives into the 2030s.

“We have had to drop the plan for re-engining the Jaguar because it has been delayed inordinately and the cost went too high,” said the IAF chief.

“The non-BISON MiG-21s will retire by the end of this year, or go up to March 2020 at the most. Only the MiG-21 BISON fleet will be left and will go up to the end of its technical life [in 2021], he said.

Worryingly, the shortfalls could be even worse if there is delay in processing the purchase of 114 eponymous Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA), which an Indian “strategic partner” (SP) will build in technology partnership with a global “original equipment manufacturer” (OEM).

Requests for Interest (RFIs) have already been sent out to prospective SPs and OEMs for this tender.

“The [vendors’ responses] have already been received for the 114 MRFA case. We have started the process for obtaining AoN (Acceptance of Necessity) now. The AoN, which the defence ministry accords, is the first step in a procurement and is followed by the issuance of an RFP (request for proposals) – the basic tender document.

Bhadauria’s plan also includes building 83 Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) in quick time to fill the light fighter vacancies left by the retirement of the MiG-21 and MiG-27 fighters.

On a parallel track, India would build the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), a fifth generation medium fighter.

Meanwhile, the IAF chief confirmed the IAF would buy 21 MiG-29 fighters that are lying ready built in Russia. “We are going to go in for 21 MiG-29, which has already been informed [to Moscow],” he said.

Adding those to the IAF’s existing three MiG-29 squadrons, which are undergoing a mid-life upgrade, would take the number of IAF MiG-29 squadrons up to four. In addition, the navy flies two squadrons of the navalized MiG-29K/KUBs.

Bhadauria also confirmed reports that additional Sukhoi-30MKI fighters would be built by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) in Nashik. HAL will soon complete delivery of the last squadron of Sukhoi-30MKIs, bringing up the IAF fleet to 13 squadrons.

“We are moving towards ordering 12 more Sukhoi-30s. Whether we need some more in lieu of aircraft that are going to get phased out from 2025 onwards… we will have to take a look later. But at the moment, 12 is what is being followed up straightaway,” said Bhadauria.

The chief also confirmed plans to upgrade the Sukhoi-30MKI, with modern “radar and weapons capabilities and also tackling obsolescence management and electronic warfare aspects.”

Dismissing rumours that India is buying 36 more Rafales from France, Bhadauria stated: “Our plan is for building 114 MRFA in the SP model. There is no separate plan for this (36 more Rafales)."

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Jan 2020 04:52

This one is going to be an interesting read....the pilot being interviewed is none other than Group Captain HV Thakur (Retd)!

Flying & fighting in the Indian Air Force Jaguar: IAF Jaguar pilot interview
https://hushkit.net/2020/01/02/flying-f ... interview/
02 Jan 2020

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 03 Jan 2020 05:12

Here's a list of the IAF's fighter squadrons that are currently number-plated and the list will grow with the imminent retirement of the MiG-21MF fighters of No.26 Squadron 'Warriors'.

No.10 Squadron 'Winged Daggers' - last flying MiG-27UPG
No.18 Squadron 'Flying Bullets'- last flying MiG-27ML and reportedly soon to be converted onto Tejas Mk1. The only fighter squadron to have a PVC holder, Flg Offr Nirmaljeet Singh Sekhon
No.22 Squadron 'Swifts' - last flying MiG-27ML
No.29 Squadron 'Scorpios'- last flying MiG-27UPG
No.35 Squadron 'Rapiers'- last flying MiG-21M
No.37 Squadron 'Black Panthers'- last flying MiG-21M
No.101 Squadron 'Falcons' - last flying MiG-21M and the second squadron to be converted onto Rafale after No.17 'Golden Arrows'
No.108 Squadron 'Hawkeyes'- last flying MiG-21M

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 04 Jan 2020 15:31

ashishvikas wrote:#Resurrection: 222 Sqn 'The Tigersharks' got resurrected today with state of the art Su-30 MKI Multirole Fighter aircraft. Raised on 15 Sep 69 with Su-7, the Sqn was later equipped with #MiG27 Ground Attack Aircraft prior to getting numberplated in 2011.

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1212 ... 11584?s=19

Sukhois head south! Thanjavur to host fighters for Indian Ocean missions - The Week

https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2020/ ... javur.html

nam · Post by **nam** » 05 Jan 2020 03:33

A330 AWACS is now in CCS!

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 6cqUO.html

If something is really wanted, things can move very fast...even in GoI.

Has anything has ever gone from DAC to CCS in a month?

srai · Post by **srai** » 05 Jan 2020 03:57

...

In addition, Bhadauria announced that six Jaguar squadrons would retire in the early 2020s, since it would be too costly to equip them with new engines needed to extend their service lives into the 2030s.

“We have had to drop the plan for re-engining the Jaguar because it has been delayed inordinately and the cost went too high,” said the IAF chief.

...

Only quick replacement at this point would be Su-30MKI and LCA MK.1 FOC.

Too many uncertainties on the MK.1A and MK.2/TE at the moment. Any expensive import takes a long time.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Jan 2020 05:47

The hoops that the 83 Mk1As had to go through (and still not signed!). From where is additional Mk1s going to come from? But MoD got time and money to waste on MRCA purchase.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 05 Jan 2020 06:46

IAF would rather jeopardize national security, retire aircraft rather than buy more of the “three legged cheetah”!

Orders for MK1 should have been placed 3 years ago prior to retiring jaguars.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Jan 2020 11:34

It can't be only IAF. Babudom, some politicians and generations of import mafia must be involved. Unfortunately PM and people at the top also do not think it is a priority.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 05 Jan 2020 12:05

Any idea on what is the central cause of delay in signing the agreement of LCA mk.1 order for 83 jets. It's getting a little bit ridiculous, given the alarming shortage of jets and bvr missiles in the IAF inventory.

If for whatever reason, the IAF is thrust into a war tomorrow, I'm not sure the outcome will be as favorable as desired. While there is no doubt on the quality of training, but there is no way that we can provide adequate air density for regular CAP over all vulnerable areas.

I really wish the PMO would step into this matter and order the immediate order and induction of a few more squadron of LCA and rafale, because we absolutely need to cover this gap.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Jan 2020 20:30

The orderis supposed to be announced at the upcoming DEFEXPO at Nuqlao.

pkudva · Post by **pkudva** » 09 Jan 2020 22:10

I wish CCS cleared Contracts are signed during Def Expo.
TejasMk1A- Pending
LCH-Pending
Ka226T-Pending
Phalcon/Add Netra- Pending
NSAMS-Pending
Raytheaon IFSTAR-- Pending
Addl. Su 30- Pending
Add. Mig 29- Pending
C-295- Pending
And many more which are less than 3000 Crs and not subjected to CCS approvals.

mody · Post by **mody** » 10 Jan 2020 14:05

pkudva wrote:I wish CCS cleared Contracts are signed during Def Expo.
TejasMk1A- Pending
LCH-Pending
Ka226T-Pending
Phalcon/Add Netra- Pending
NSAMS-Pending
Raytheaon IFSTAR-- Pending
Addl. Su 30- Pending
Add. Mig 29- Pending
C-295- Pending
And many more which are less than 3000 Crs and not subjected to CCS approvals.

From your list, number 3 and 5 are definitely not required. I hope the contracts for the same never get signed.
For the rest Godspeed.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 10 Jan 2020 21:24

mody wrote:
pkudva wrote:I wish CCS cleared Contracts are signed during Def Expo.
TejasMk1A- Pending
LCH-Pending
~~Ka226T-Pending~~
~~Phalcon~~
Add Netra- Pending
~~NSAMS-Pending~~
Raytheaon IFSTAR-- Pending
Addl. Su 30- Pending
~~Add. Mig 29- Pending~~
C-295- Pending
And many more which are less than 3000 Crs and not subjected to CCS approvals.
From your list, number 3 and 5 are definitely not required. I hope the contracts for the same never get signed.
For the rest Godspeed.

I'd do one better and cancel some more items

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Jan 2020 22:33

Those additional Phalcon and MiG-29s are very much required.

With 2 more Phalcons we will get an AWACS fleet of 5 Phalcons and 3 Netras. Additional Netra's can add to the above.

The 21 MiG-29s will add a 4th squadron and attrition reserves. With Astra and D-29 plus Uttam AESAR one day, these can remain lethal and cutting edge fighters for a long time to come.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 10 Jan 2020 23:27

nam wrote:A330 AWACS is now in CCS!

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 6cqUO.html

If something is really wanted, things can move very fast...even in GoI.

Has anything has ever gone from DAC to CCS in a month?

It was first proposed in 2008, cleared by DM Arun Jaitely in 2013

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 11 Jan 2020 02:59

Karan M wrote:Those additional Phalcon and MiG-29s are very much required.

With 2 more Phalcons we will get an AWACS fleet of 5 Phalcons and 3 Netras. Additional Netra's can add to the above.

The 21 MiG-29s will add a 4th squadron and attrition reserves. With Astra and D-29 plus Uttam AESAR one day, these can remain lethal and cutting edge fighters for a long time to come.

The time for 2 phalcons has passed, - I personally don't think we are ready to pay price, Russia and Israel are asking.

IAF is strange, playing lip service with Tejas orders but ready to jump to gun for buying Mig-29s - should start phasing out in the next decade.