Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

VenkataS · Post by **VenkataS** » 15 Jan 2020 01:34

AP needs a city in the 5-10 million range population (in the next 10 years) within its urban area with good universities and a decent technical talent pool to compete with Hyderabad, Bengaluru and Chennai and attract some investments which otherwise would go to these cities. It is a reality in India that most large industrializing states in India have at least one big city which has a vibrant economy. I am not sure having decentralized capitals is going to bring any economic benefit to AP in the short to medium term. This maybe OK in the long run like in 50 years. I doubt the present govt has any long term view in mind with respect to shifting the capital. They just want to grab their piece of the real estate pie like the previous one.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 15 Jan 2020 07:14

ShyamSP wrote: PRP-2.0 was big negative for JS as this was there in voters mind including Kapus for long time since the start of JS. JS can't grow beyond the share they got. BJP sees JS juicy 6% share and wants to acquire 6% to become 7% party from 1%. Beyond that BJP needs to attract Kapu voters but not all are not keen on BJP as none really embraced the way they did PRP. Unless BJP breaks Rayalseema there is no hope beyond 7% and for that to happen they need to break YCP voters esp RS Reddies too.

BJP needs to break TDP voters too. Except some diehard castiest Kammas, most of the TDP voterbase (including a substantial amount of Kammas) are BJP friendly and will switch to BJP if and when TDP weakens or not in the picture.

Trying to align with BJP is a good move by PK. TDP till now was banking on his support and TDP media is giving impression that he is with them. Notice the prominence given to PK by the yellow media is recent times (compared to how they ignored them before elections). TDP also wanted to ally with BJP but BJP is not interested as the multiple betrayals they endured from TDP is still fresh. Unlike TDP which personally abused Modi and threw stones on Amit Shah, Jana Sena came out of NDA without putting up a grand tamasha and Pawan Kalyan never personally abused Modi or Shah and kept his options open for future. That is smart politics from him compared to "40 year experienced" CBN.

Another version i am hearing about PKs meeting with JP Nadda is that its CBN who sent PK over to BJP as he cant show his face now to them. And PK did tried to talk with Nadda about adding TDP to the alliance but JP Nadda said 'We will see later. Not now'. And before talking with PK, Nadda spoke with Venkayya naidu.

In a triangular fight between YSRCP, TDP and BJP/JS, its still advantage YSRCP. TDP on the other hand is now effectively a two district party.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 16 Jan 2020 00:11

Rony wrote:
ShyamSP wrote: PRP-2.0 was big negative for JS as this was there in voters mind including Kapus for long time since the start of JS. JS can't grow beyond the share they got. BJP sees JS juicy 6% share and wants to acquire 6% to become 7% party from 1%. Beyond that BJP needs to attract Kapu voters but not all are not keen on BJP as none really embraced the way they did PRP. Unless BJP breaks Rayalseema there is no hope beyond 7% and for that to happen they need to break YCP voters esp RS Reddies too.
BJP needs to break TDP voters too. Except some diehard castiest Kammas, most of the TDP voterbase (including a substantial amount of Kammas) are BJP friendly and will switch to BJP if and when TDP weakens or not in the picture.

Trying to align with BJP is a good move by PK. TDP till now was banking on his support and TDP media is giving impression that he is with them. Notice the prominence given to PK by the yellow media is recent times (compared to how they ignored them before elections). TDP also wanted to ally with BJP but BJP is not interested as the multiple betrayals they endured from TDP is still fresh. Unlike TDP which personally abused Modi and threw stones on Amit Shah, Jana Sena came out of NDA without putting up a grand tamasha and Pawan Kalyan never personally abused Modi or Shah and kept his options open for future. That is smart politics from him compared to "40 year experienced" CBN.

Another version i am hearing about PKs meeting with JP Nadda is that its CBN who sent PK over to BJP as he cant show his face now to them. And PK did tried to talk with Nadda about adding TDP to the alliance but JP Nadda said 'We will see later. Not now'. And before talking with PK, Nadda spoke with Venkayya naidu.

In a triangular fight between YSRCP, TDP and BJP/JS, its still advantage YSRCP. TDP on the other hand is now effectively a two district party.

TDP's DNA is pro-Telugu and anti-congress so if there is any casteism it may be recent phenomenon from 2010 due to its need to consolidate votebanks against TRS and INC/YCP. YCP on the otherhand didn't/doesn't shy away from Casteism and EJism which is overwhelmingly visible now in public from elected leaders and police and government offices. While YCP does this openly, BJP is also encouraging casteism surreptitiously looking at how they deploy "events" and "spokespersons" while doing Hindutva openly as usual. INC is dead in AP but clings on to damaged KHAM in TS.

YCP is still a rebel party within Congress eco-system and its votebank strength is also KHAM (with 70+% in 2019 voting - very peak in the history post 1983). With power at the Center if BJP can't now break YCP, forget about 2024 as INC with all its rebel parties (Pilla/Child Congress parties) has possibility to stake claim in Delhi. BJP already saw peak of Hindutva votebanks so any thing is decline as we see in State elections.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 16 Jan 2020 00:19

VenkataS wrote:AP needs a city in the 5-10 million range population (in the next 10 years) within its urban area with good universities and a decent technical talent pool to compete with Hyderabad, Bengaluru and Chennai and attract some investments which otherwise would go to these cities. It is a reality in India that most large industrializing states in India have at least one big city which has a vibrant economy. I am not sure having decentralized capitals is going to bring any economic benefit to AP in the short to medium term. This maybe OK in the long run like in 50 years. I doubt the present govt has any long term view in mind with respect to shifting the capital. They just want to grab their piece of the real estate pie like the previous one.

They kicked out many companies including in Visakapatnam which are going to TS, TN, KT. They want to shift capital office buildings into emptied private offices buildings. So they want to kick out "real" jobs and provide jobs like tea/food vendors to serve government offices and stupefy people with more Government doles. When there is no money for doles they are selling government properties. AP's economy is going through vicious cycle with no prospects and with total government control.

No wonder KCR funding him in elections is helping KCR.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 16 Jan 2020 02:12

Vizag is the ideal capital given its strategic importance, military character and large hinterland available. However, it is a tad too north locationwise. With the Krishnapatnam port doing well, the Sri City SEZ also doing well on the border with TN, next door to Sriharikota, a case is there for the capital towards the south, closer to H'bad, B'lore and Madras/Chennai.Amaravatti is centrally located,close to Guntur and Vijayawada and with thf Machilipatnam port also closeby, geographically and one could also argue historically,given its grear Buddhist legacy spanning two millenia.

Aarvee · Post by **Aarvee** » 16 Jan 2020 05:24

ShyamSP wrote: TDP's DNA is pro-Telugu and anti-congress

Ahem!

Allied with TRS in 2009?, the party which led to bifurcation of the state. Tied up with NDA, with the same guy, whom they originally allegged to be the mastermind of 2002 and brought down NDA2. Back stabbed NDA3 and Then tied up with Congress and shared the stage with RaGa and became famous in Pakeesthan also. Cant speak much about pre-CBN TDP but the current TDP is a principleless parasite of a party with blatant castist policies.

What the hell was wrong with the plan to build a concrete jungle in one of the most fertile land of the state I wonder!

Donakonda was the original recommendation, all the reasons are given below. Geographically centered, close to Hyd-Blore and Vjw highways, railway station, largish airfield from british times that can be upgraded, large Govt held lands, reasonable access to water.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 021960.cms

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2020 05:26

TDP appears pro-power.
But then is everybody else expect foolish BJP which wins nationals and loses state elections.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2020 05:27

Also guys please let others from the two other states also talk.
TN and then Kerala elections will be next up.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 16 Jan 2020 07:23

ramana wrote:Also guys please let others from the two other states also talk.
TN and then Kerala elections will be next up.

I would love to hear more from TN, KE and KA members on the internal dynamics in their states, caste equations, political analysis etc like we do it for AP.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 16 Jan 2020 07:31

Philip wrote:. However, it is a tad too north locationwise .

Isnt Chennai too north for Tamilnadu and Thiruvananthapuram too south for Kerala ? Bangalore too is extreme south east for Karnataka. Development of Vizag will also spur development in Orissa.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 16 Jan 2020 07:50

double post

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 16 Jan 2020 14:40

232 years after Tipu Sultan forced beef on a section of Malayalis and converted them, Kerala tourism's official account promotes this on Sankranti /Pongala festival. Why should Hindus from rest of the country visit Kerala if they dont respect their sentiments. Let the commie govt promote their islamic tourism in gulf countries. I would rather spend my money visiting Karnataka.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 16 Jan 2020 16:12

OK.. I will bite.. If anyone doesn't know, I am a native and resident of central Kerala, hence qualified onlee.

First, let us set some baseline information that is often missed or misunderstood by non-keralites.

State name in native tongue : kEraLam. phonetically kɛrələm. There is no equivalent to the L sound in devanagari and many other languages.
State name in english : Kerala. No m at the end. There is no name like "keral".
People of the state in english: Keralites.
Language: 'malayALam'. Here the first l and second L are different sounds. There is no language like 'malayali'
People of the language : malayALi.
Traditional food grain: Red rice plain boiled. The rice grain is prepared in a parboiling process, so the cooked grains are firmer, smoother, and retain some of the bran flavour.
Traditional dress: 'mund~', which is a white plain cloth worn around the waist and a 'randaam mund~' (literally second mund~) that is worn like a shawl. Yes, it was even for women like a century ago.

Contemporary food: Kerala Porotta, which is a form or paratha that is flaky.
Post contemporary food: Arabic Shawarma

Kerala is formed from the erstwhile rajahdoms of Travancore and Cochin, plus the Malayalam speaking regions of British administered lands.

Wiki says: According to 2011 Census of India figures, 54.73% of Kerala's population are Hindus, 26.56% are Muslims, 18.38% are Christians, and the remaining 0.33% follow other religions or have no religion

Politics: Divided into two: LDF led by the CPIM, followed by the other commies and a few left leaning parties. UDF led by congress, followed by Muslim league and a few christian leaning parties. BJP is very low in the rung. Historically, KL goes contra to national mood. And mostly go anti-incumbent in state elections.

BJP is in terrible state. All evil cliches about the typical mallu are applicable to the party here. Infighting, groups, leg pulling, hamstring chopping whatnot. Unless they get their act together, KL is going to be the token opposition in India.

The commies corner majority of yindoo votes. Those with cong have to go extra mile to show secular credentials, like one MLA refusing to count himself as yindoo for voting for devaswom matters, and a few others regularly taking ramzan fasting etc.

Caste wise, the Ezhavas are the highest numbers. They are reasonably well organized under the SNDP organization (led by a father). They created the political arm BDJS (led by the son) that is officially aligned in a marriage of convenience with NDA. Now, since they have so many 'things to worry about', the father aligns with the commies and the son stays with NDA. See, both the state and centre have bolis right?

Nairs are next (I am born one). Once again, we are a community that personify the 'typical maloo'. We have the organization NSS, but being Nairs, we always oppose what anyone of leadership say. I think the only time we showed any level of cohesiveness was during the Sabarimala issue.

Xtians have three major sections.

The orthodox folk are practically independent ones, who are fine to live with. They do not convert people or talk bad of yindoos. They respect us and we respect back. Honestly our brothers.

The catholic folk are controlled by the pope. There are three types. The Malankara folk are almost like the orthodox and good to deal with. The syrian ones are OK. The latin ones are the ones go around converting and talking bad about yindoos. One tendency I see now is the exceeding use of yindoo cultural things, like celebrating onam, wearing traditional clothing, having temple like flag pole at churches etc. It is an effort to make it more acceptable I think.

Then there are the EJs. YouknowwhatImean.

Muslims are multiple types, so I lose track. But the tendency in the past decade is to see who is more arap than araps. Very.. Bad... That is the major concern for us now. Ten years ago, it was very difficult to identify a muslim at a public place. Now you can.

More later.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 16 Jan 2020 22:32

Aarvee wrote:
ShyamSP wrote: TDP's DNA is pro-Telugu and anti-congress
Ahem!

Allied with TRS in 2009?, the party which led to bifurcation of the state. Tied up with NDA, with the same guy, whom they originally allegged to be the mastermind of 2002 and brought down NDA2. Back stabbed NDA3 and Then tied up with Congress and shared the stage with RaGa and became famous in Pakeesthan also. Cant speak much about pre-CBN TDP but the current TDP is a principleless parasite of a party with blatant castist policies.

What the hell was wrong with the plan to build a concrete jungle in one of the most fertile land of the state I wonder!

Yes Ahem!. When you're in alliance you get kissing comments and not in alliance you get spitting comments. Even today BJP is going with JS, you'll have romantic comments between them now on.

Aarvee wrote:
Donakonda was the original recommendation, all the reasons are given below. Geographically centered, close to Hyd-Blore and Vjw highways, railway station, largish airfield from british times that can be upgraded, large Govt held lands, reasonable access to water.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 021960.cms

As per 2014 APRA appointed committed report from previous page it is not even recommendation. That was initial speculative proposal by YCP before 2014 as they bought a lot of lands around it for cheap after split in Parliament. This kind of fake news is inline with "Fake IIT Madras?" report they are circulating on flood risk of Capital area as a reason for Capital move.

While I agree on making fertile land as jungle land is wrong and which I hate also. Current "Amaravati" Capital location is 15-20KM from Vijayawada. Vijayawada-Guntur corridor expansion is eating many lands for urban anyway. Now they can make planned way. "Amaravati" was chosen for historical purpose as it was Capital of Andhra empires but current place it NOT actual current Amaravathi city but part of VGTM corridor as the report mentions.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 16 Jan 2020 22:38

Rony wrote:
Philip wrote:. However, it is a tad too north locationwise .
Isnt Chennai too north for Tamilnadu and Thiruvananthapuram too south for Kerala ? Bangalore too is extreme south east for Karnataka. Development of Vizag will also spur development in Orissa.

Chennai was in the middle of Madras presidency. But in Colonial times it happened for different reasons. It was chosen not because it was middle but British got big parcel of land from Samsthanams of Damarla "Chenna"ppa Naidu family. Madras was evolved from there and British were able to colonize lands from what is current TN, AP, KT from Madras.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2020 22:39

Any one with graphics skill willing to convert Dileep's information into an infographic?

Take your time and wont get it right in first try.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2020 22:48

Many ISIS terror links are leading to Kerala and the political climate created by the politicians.

Sachin,
What happens if Travancore and Cochin are separated as UTs?
Looks like the old linguistic decision in 1956 was wrong.
Are these folks localized or spread out?
Say for 30 years time frame to let these ideas simmer down.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 17 Jan 2020 12:15

ramana wrote:What happens if Travancore and Cochin are separated as UTs?

It may be counter productive IMHO. One thing these two areas would be really small, and would not be worth the infrastructure and bureaucracy required to run the rule of law there. Kerala already has the example of Mahe here. This small town (around 16 sq.km) is surrounded by Kerala on three sides and the Arabian sea on the other. It is technically part of the UT of Pondicherry. So for this tiny place, Pondicherry government has an entire bureaucratic setup including a police unit, district collector etc. etc. And even if Travancore and Cochin became UTs (or one Union Territory like what existed earlier Thiru-Kochi princely state), who would manage the affairs of the earlier territory of British Malabar? (i.e today's North-Central and Northern parts of Kerala, from Malappuram Dt to Kasaragod Dt)?

Kerala today has got a fairly homogenous society with similar language and most of the culture & traditions. The state still is not self-reliant and all the fancy high index scores mainly are due to the large expatriate income which gets funnelled to the state. What is required is really close watching on the financial deals in the state. The Islamic terrorism in Kerala actually began after the Muslim community in generally prospered due to the funds (and jobs) coming from the Middle East. It was this which kick started the tendency of being More Arabs than Arabs themselves. The money which came in also allowed many other wise low income Muslim groups to get into business (they were always good traders), and this business clout reaching to situations where they can even buy out the media and at least some politicians. The foreign funding also helped in radicalisation amongst the youth, with the money and business clout giving the average young man a feeling that Kerala is now pretty much a vassal state of the Arabs.

GoI should recognize the threat Kerala poses (and I am sure it already does). At least GoI should not behave like an ostritch with the head deep inside the sand. Using central government agencies and police forces of neighbouring states they can still ensure that the land of Kerala is not becoming a training camp for the Islamic terrorists. And such strategies has been used by GoI earlier. Abdul Nasser Mahdani who kind of pioneered Islamic terrorism in modern Kerala (in 1990s) had such a fan following among the "seculars" that no state government was keen on curbing his activities. Finally it was the TN Police and GoI agencies who identified his connections with the serial bomb blasts in Coimbatore and picked him up. He came out of prison after 9 years, as a mellowed man.

Convincing the average Malayali (whose life revolves around KL state and perhaps the middle east) may require a more long term strategy. From what I have observed is that as of today Islamists have got a very strong grip in every thing in Kerala (and it is mainly through money followed by muscle power). Be it business houses, movie industry, hawala & black marketing, they are the champs. They also have a strong hold on every "secular" party in the state, while Hindu community runs around as a headless chicken.

Are these folks localized or spread out?

If it is about Jehadi elements then my understanding is that they are spread out. Radicalization has been fairly uniform across the state. But the most brazen of the jehadis would naturally be in the more Muslim majority districts of Kerala; mainly the North Central & North Kerala.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 17 Jan 2020 12:33

Dileep wrote:OK.. I will bite.. If anyone doesn't know, I am a native and resident of central Kerala, hence qualified onlee.

First, let us set some baseline information that is often missed or misunderstood by non-keralites.

State name in native tongue : kEraLam. phonetically kɛrələm. There is no equivalent to the L sound in devanagari and many other languages.

<snip>

.

Good info Dileep.

Though devnagari has L sound. Marathi uses it I believe. Hindi does not.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 17 Jan 2020 21:31

Which character indicate L in devanagari?

Ramana, the state is really homogenous, and people do not hold the old rajadom (the brits never considered these are 'kings') to any consideration, except (hnairgoils is likely to blow a gasket here) some people in Trivandrum. So, honestly, if someone suggest split the state (into UTs), then most of us will say split the state (into an independent country).

Most of us grew up on secular cool aid. All of us, including yindoos, RoL and RoP. It is difficult to wean people away from cool aid. But I think the current situation actually did it.

What I feel is that a new normal will establish, where RoL and RoP will be more respectful to yindoos and yindoos more into 'taking respect' rather than magnanimously taking abuse.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 17 Jan 2020 21:58

Dileep wrote:So, honestly, if someone suggest split the state (into UTs), then most of us will say split the state (into an independent country).

Dileep Cheta, what do you mean by bolded part?

Rajesh_MR · Post by **Rajesh_MR** » 17 Jan 2020 23:16

Dileep wrote: Most of us grew up on secular cool aid. All of us, including yindoos, RoL and RoP. It is difficult to wean people away from cool aid. But I think the current situation actually did it.

Is that really true across the state? When I was growing up, church used to cover politics during Sunday prayers, have heard it while walking on street. K Karunakaran loosing in his home district of Thrissur was one such case.
Was hindu candidate able to win in constituencies where muslims are majority?

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 18 Jan 2020 04:55

CBNs lies and propaganda on Modi/BJP are getting exposed one by one by his own team

https://twitter.com/ssudhirkumar/status ... 46083?s=20

One of the biggest lie and fraud perpetrated by @ncbn & thammullu (cadre) was that Modi gave no money to build Amaravati.

With Jagan planning shifting capital to Vizag, @ncbn 's mouthpiece today suddenly tells us that Amaravati is ready and "no additional expenses are needed" !

Today, @ncbn 's mouthpiece, Eenadu is telling us that Modi government had approved a 17,761 crore Outer Ring Road project for Amaravati.

Also telling us that the "only pending item was land acquisition by the state government". CBN didn't acquire a single cent of land.

What they say now is actually true. The capital is indeed done in every way. Legislature, Executive and Judiciary. Police & Law Enforcement also. NCBN and Tamullu have had 1 year of inexplicable madness. Hopefully they have been punished for life for that.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 18 Jan 2020 06:43

Do Pawan Kalyan and other politicians in Andhra Pradesh owe an apology to the people for making false statements about the BJP ?

Ever since Modi won a resounding mandate in May 2019, many politicians from Andhra Pradesh were making a beeline to join the BJP! The first major jolt to TDP came when 4 out of their 6 MPs in Rajya Sabha decided to merge the TDP RS unit into the BJP. Since the 2/3rd criteria was met, this happened seamlessly. Slowly, many spokespersons of the TDP started to jump ship into the BJP. And finally on January 16th 2020, popular actor Pawan Kalyan led Jana Sena party and the BJP had announced an alliance to contest all future elections together.

It is often said that there are no permanent friends or foes in politics. So one doesn’t need to be surprised when such political ‘realignments’ take place. However, many of these joining and alliances have come as a major shocker to me.

When political parties fight against one another, it is quite common to throw around allegations of corruption, nepotism, hooliganism etc. However, the viciousness with which many telugu politicians (especially from TDP, Congress, Left and the Jana Sena) spewed venom on BJP and Modi had to be heard to be believed.

For example, Pawan Kalyan was the first politician to pick on the fraudulent “North vs South” divide that the radical left publication The Wire had published. While most of the regional media was parroting this insane argument, this was countered only on MyIndMakers! Infact this search link provides you with many instances of how Pawan Kalyan sought to spread North-South divide.

Pawan Kalyan went on to even hold meetings with intellectuals to justify this blatant divisive politics. He even setup a “Joint Fact Finding Committee” which miraculously decided that Centre owes AP nearly 75,000 crores! At every available opportunity, Pawan Kalyan thundered about the ‘step motherly treatment’ that Modi was meting out to AP. Here in this video, he is even claiming that he will die but will never merge with the BJP (Even if you don’t understand the spoken language, you can clearly understand the emotions from his body language).

What changed from May 2019 to now that Pawan Kalyan has changed his mind? The BJP did absolutely nothing new from what it was doing earlier. Why should Pawan Kalyan not apologize to the people of AP for grossly misleading them in the runup to the 2019 elections? Why were such high emotions and highly divisive politics fanned out before the 2019 elections? Why didn’t saner sense prevail at that point of time?

Or take the example of spokespersons like Lanka Dinakar or Yamini – these people were at the forefront of vicious lies against the Modi government. Lanka Dinakar used to take copies of The Hindu to TV debates to argue about the alleged Rafale scam. His emotions are there for all to see. The biggest shocker of all was RS MPs Sujana Chowdary and C.M.Ramesh. Sujana Chowdary was a minister in Modi’s cabinet and has commented that he has repeatedly reminded CBN of how AP was not being given any respect; press conference after press conference talking about how “Modi betrayed AP”; even questioning the 10% reservation to EBCs!. These people were believed to very strong Chandrababu Naidu confidantes. And hence the strong rumor going around that it was CBN who sent them into the BJP!

Even Chandrababu Naidu’s recent overtures are unpardonable. We had recently written about this topic so no point in dwelling further on this. Day in, day out, all they did was to spew unbelievable venom on BJP in general and Modi in particular. The most upsetting part of all these turncoats is how they don’t seem to realise the extent of their lies and fraud on the people of AP. Maybe the results of the AP Assembly in 2019 would have been different if they didn’t resort to such lousy divisive politics and unhealthy display of emotions and language.

This post is not discussing the advantages or disadvantages of Pawan Kalyan’s alliance with the BJP (though I strongly believe that Pawan Kalyan is too much of a maverick to stick to one stand). Or this post is not about whether BJP is right or wrong in accepting such folks who heaped so much abuse and lies on it. This post is to demand that all these politicians of Andhra Pradesh, who are jumping ship into the BJP, must at the very least apologize to the people of Andhra Pradesh for perpetrating strong lies and furthering an extremely divisive discourse in the media and general populace.

Andhra Pradesh politics would have perhaps been very different today if all these leaders behaved responsibly and furthered a much mature discourse than what they spread. These politicians must apologize to the people of Andhra Pradesh.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Jan 2020 19:14

x posted from the political thread

twitter

#Kerala Muslims request a separate state!

#Muslim league requests that we need a separate Islamic State by joining 9 Districts including the nilgiris/kozhikodu/Mallapuram etc So it has started--From EMS created District of Malappuram to an Islamic State:)RT

So finally what we expected has happened!
#Muslim league has Demanded for a separate Malabar state by including 9districts 4m #Kerala & #Tamilnadu
Nilgri (Ooty): TN & Kozhikode Kerala+7 states!
Kerala & TN Hindus are still pretending to be asleep
#SaturdayThoughts

https://twitter.com/RajeIyer/status/1218329379811364865

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 18 Jan 2020 20:13

Please post the corroborative evidence of Muslim League (the political party with MLAs and MPs from Kerala) said that. Must be false propaganda onlee.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 18 Jan 2020 20:19

Rajesh_MR wrote:
Dileep wrote: Most of us grew up on secular cool aid. All of us, including yindoos, RoL and RoP. It is difficult to wean people away from cool aid. But I think the current situation actually did it.
Is that really true across the state? When I was growing up, church used to cover politics during Sunday prayers, have heard it while walking on street. K Karunakaran loosing in his home district of Thrissur was one such case.
Was hindu candidate able to win in constituencies where muslims are majority?

Having a political stance and supporting a candidate is not a big deal. If we yindoos can't do it, then that is our problem na?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Jan 2020 20:24

Dileep wrote:Please post the corroborative evidence of Muslim League (the political party with MLAs and MPs from Kerala) said that. Must be false propaganda onlee.

there is a link to a tv news report from asianet news tv

https://twitter.com/RajeIyer/status/1218329379811364865

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Jan 2020 03:26

Dileep wrote:Which character indicate L in devanagari?

ळ

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 19 Jan 2020 08:02

Vayutuvan wrote:
Dileep wrote:Which character indicate L in devanagari?
ळ

Gee! Thanks!! Which all languages use this?

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 19 Jan 2020 08:05

I think this is better for L-

https://www.google.com/search?q=hindi+L ... 38&bih=700

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 19 Jan 2020 08:10

fanne wrote:I think this is better for L-

https://www.google.com/search?q=hindi+L ... 38&bih=700

That's the "soft" l. Dileep is talking about the "hard" L, which exists in Tamil, Malayalam, etc. The first "l" in the word "Malayalam" is the soft l, the second is the hard L. So far as I know, "Malayalam" derives from "Malai" and "gnalam," which literally translates to "mountain country" or "mountain world." The "gna" in "gnalam," available in Tamil (and also Malayalam?) is unavailable in Devanagiri, so far as I know. The word "Kerala" also features the hard L.

Another sound unavailable in Devanagiri (so far as I know) is the "zha" sound in Tamil (maybe also Malayalam?). This is close to the pronunciation of the Roman alphabet combination "zha" in English, but not quite. The word "Thamizh" features this sound, it's not actually "Tamil," that's just how it's written in Roman script.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 19 Jan 2020 08:11

chetak wrote:
Dileep wrote:Please post the corroborative evidence of Muslim League (the political party with MLAs and MPs from Kerala) said that. Must be false propaganda onlee.
there is a link to a tv news report from asianet news tv

https://twitter.com/RajeIyer/status/1218329379811364865

That video was from 2011, and it was about development. The youth league raised this issue and said "We are going to ask the party to raise this demand". Quite common thing onlee.

There was no 'mentionable' demand from any 'mentionable' party to split the state in my knowledge.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 19 Jan 2020 08:20

sudarshan wrote:
fanne wrote:I think this is better for L-

https://www.google.com/search?q=hindi+L ... 38&bih=700
That's the "soft" l. Dileep is talking about the "hard" L, which exists in Tamil, Malayalam, etc. The first "l" in the word "Malayalam" is the soft l, the second is the hard L. "Kerala" also features the hard L.

One sound unavailable in Devanagiri (so far as I know) is the "zha" sound in Tamil (maybe also Malayalam?). This is close to the pronunciation of the Roman alphabet combination "zha" in English, but not quite. The word "Thamizh" features this sound, it's not actually "Tamil," that's just how it's written in Roman script.

Whatddayamean maybe? Actually,it is most of native Tamil speakers substitute 'zha' with 'La' (writing TamiL instead of Tamizh itself is the indication). On the contrary Malayalam always had 'zha'. Only the colloquial speak of muslims Muslim from regions down north substitute it with 'ya'. Still, the formal speak and written form never dropped it.

Long time ago I had a fight here at BRF with a member who tried to teach me that Malayalam doesn't have 'zha'. Yeah!! he tried!!

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 19 Jan 2020 08:25

I got the following material by e-mail from an inactive BRFite. He did did not ask me to post it, but he did not bar me from posting either. So, I am taking the liberty to post it here. It makes sense to me, so consider it endorsed.

Dileep saar, it is very difficult for non-muslims to understand the divisions between muslims in kerala because I doubt most muslims understand it well themselves except for the immidiate followers of these various groups. But I will try to give broad outline of their divisions and leave it for postors to figure out the rest.

Sunni muslims in kerala belong to these 4 major schools

Shafii
Hanafi
Salafi
Mujahid

Shafii
Old school Islam as practiced in arabia before invasion of ottomans. This islam was practiced by the mamluk egyptians, sharifs of mecca, & hijazis. Hijaz was birthplace of prophet and his tribe. This school goes by the letter of sharia, no human interpretation of this allowed.

In kerala the group that follows Shafii school is represented by

AP Aboobakr Musaliyar
EK Aboobakar Musaliyar

Both are same shafii school but they split on political lines with

AP Aboobakar Musaliyar supporting CPI(M)
EK Aboobakar Musaliyar supporting IUML

Hanafi
Or this is also called barelvi in India.
This is the school of Islam introduced by the Ottomans when they usurped the mantle of caliph in mecca and overthrew the Sharifs of mecca who were descendents of the prophet family.

So obviously they cannot follow Islam which favours the Sharifs of mecca. The main difference in shafii and hanafi is that hanafi allows 'human interpretation of sharia' with that human in ancient times being the ottoman caliph.

this is the school spread by turkish rule and is the default religious school of the 'kabila'

In Kerala this group is represented by

Panakkad Mohamad Ali Shihab Thangal
Panakkad Hyderali Shihab Thangal

they are propreitors and custodians of IUML. They are hadrami yemeni living in Kerala like the chaush hadramis of hyderabad. Only difference is this group considers themselves syed hadramis.

Salafis
Deobandis
This is the school of Islam spread from Najd and by Ibn Wahhab and adopted by the al-Sauds, hanbalis, this gained into prominence when the british overthrew sharifs of mecca (they came back w/reduced power during ottoman rule) and appointed a tribal chief named Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud and helped him defeat sharifs of mecca (lawrence of arabia etc had role to play i think). Their famous symbol is the index finger or tawhid meaning 'One God' and no riff-raff.

This school sponsored by Saudi money is fastest expanding network in Kerala.
It is represented in Kerala by
Kerala Jammiyathul Ulama
but this organanization has made way for

Mujahid
This is Salafi ++, the school of the muslim brotherhood, ISIS, Zakir Naik, SDPI, PFI, etc.
In Kerala followers of this school are instantly identifiable wearing arab thobes and shaved moustache and beard.
They say they are peaceful preachers. This school is represented by

Kerala Nadvathul Mujahideen
these folks are radicalized and often pooh pooh the barelvi and shafiis as idol worshippers or drama artists and their practice of worshipping at mazars such as beemapally etc.

then there sprinkling of shias and ahmedis but these are in taqqiya mode and do not make their presence felt in open space and public. They will pretend to be sunni mainstream.

My presentation is not to be taken as gospel and can have inaccuracies but this is best I can manage for now.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 19 Jan 2020 10:01

Dileep wrote:I got the following material by e-mail from an inactive BRFite. He did did not ask me to post it, but he did not bar me from posting either. So, I am taking the liberty to post it here. It makes sense to me, so consider it endorsed.

Dileep saar, it is very difficult for non-muslims to understand the divisions between muslims in kerala because I doubt most muslims understand it well themselves except for the immidiate followers of these various groups. But I will try to give broad outline of their divisions and leave it for postors to figure out the rest.

Sunni muslims in kerala belong to these 4 major schools

Shafii
Hanafi
Salafi
Mujahid

Shafii
Old school Islam as practiced in arabia before invasion of ottomans. This islam was practiced by the mamluk egyptians, sharifs of mecca, & hijazis. Hijaz was birthplace of prophet and his tribe. This school goes by the letter of sharia, no human interpretation of this allowed.

In kerala the group that follows Shafii school is represented by

AP Aboobakr Musaliyar
EK Aboobakar Musaliyar

Both are same shafii school but they split on political lines with

AP Aboobakar Musaliyar supporting CPI(M)
EK Aboobakar Musaliyar supporting IUML

Hanafi
Or this is also called barelvi in India.
This is the school of Islam introduced by the Ottomans when they usurped the mantle of caliph in mecca and overthrew the Sharifs of mecca who were descendents of the prophet family.

So obviously they cannot follow Islam which favours the Sharifs of mecca. The main difference in shafii and hanafi is that hanafi allows 'human interpretation of sharia' with that human in ancient times being the ottoman caliph.

this is the school spread by turkish rule and is the default religious school of the 'kabila'

In Kerala this group is represented by

Panakkad Mohamad Ali Shihab Thangal
Panakkad Hyderali Shihab Thangal

they are propreitors and custodians of IUML. They are hadrami yemeni living in Kerala like the chaush hadramis of hyderabad. Only difference is this group considers themselves syed hadramis.

Salafis
Deobandis
This is the school of Islam spread from Najd and by Ibn Wahhab and adopted by the al-Sauds, hanbalis, this gained into prominence when the british overthrew sharifs of mecca (they came back w/reduced power during ottoman rule) and appointed a tribal chief named Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud and helped him defeat sharifs of mecca (lawrence of arabia etc had role to play i think). Their famous symbol is the index finger or tawhid meaning 'One God' and no riff-raff.

This school sponsored by Saudi money is fastest expanding network in Kerala.
It is represented in Kerala by
Kerala Jammiyathul Ulama
but this organanization has made way for

Mujahid
This is Salafi ++, the school of the muslim brotherhood, ISIS, Zakir Naik, SDPI, PFI, etc.
In Kerala followers of this school are instantly identifiable wearing arab thobes and shaved moustache and beard.
They say they are peaceful preachers. This school is represented by

Kerala Nadvathul Mujahideen
these folks are radicalized and often pooh pooh the barelvi and shafiis as idol worshippers or drama artists and their practice of worshipping at mazars such as beemapally etc.

then there sprinkling of shias and ahmedis but these are in taqqiya mode and do not make their presence felt in open space and public. They will pretend to be sunni mainstream.

My presentation is not to be taken as gospel and can have inaccuracies but this is best I can manage for now.

The common thread in all this is, 'my version of 'Islam' is the only true one. The rest are non-believers, may be a touch better than plain vanilla kafirs but otherwise, just as bad.

Abhibhushan · Post by **Abhibhushan** » 19 Jan 2020 10:29

When I was a little boy learning my বাঙ্গালা alphabet (was it really that long ago?) The characters ru, deergha ru, li, deergha li existed in my book. The characters li and deergha li were dropped officially by the University of Calcutta perhaps in late thirties. Deergha ru died of neglect and dis-use. Thank God ru (ৠ ) still exists so that we can still recall our Rishi s and Muni s

RajD · Post by **RajD** » 19 Jan 2020 10:39

Vayutuvan wrote:
Dileep wrote:Which character indicate L in devanagari?
ळ

Sir,
This is a kathin vyanjan, and it is limited and conspicuous to Marathi language. Usually in other languages 'L' denotes 'ल' in Devanagari script.
Regards.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 19 Jan 2020 10:41

Dileep wrote:
sudarshan wrote:
That's the "soft" l. Dileep is talking about the "hard" L, which exists in Tamil, Malayalam, etc. The first "l" in the word "Malayalam" is the soft l, the second is the hard L. "Kerala" also features the hard L.

One sound unavailable in Devanagiri (so far as I know) is the "zha" sound in Tamil (maybe also Malayalam?). This is close to the pronunciation of the Roman alphabet combination "zha" in English, but not quite. The word "Thamizh" features this sound, it's not actually "Tamil," that's just how it's written in Roman script.
Whatddayamean maybe? Actually,it is most of native Tamil speakers substitute 'zha' with 'La' (writing TamiL instead of Tamizh itself is the indication). On the contrary Malayalam always had 'zha'. Only the colloquial speak of muslims Muslim from regions down north substitute it with 'ya'. Still, the formal speak and written form never dropped it.

Long time ago I had a fight here at BRF with a member who tried to teach me that Malayalam doesn't have 'zha'. Yeah!! he tried!!

Actually Tamil has letters for both sounds of 'la'. It is written as 'ழ' for the softer pronounced 'la' as in 'தமிழ்' (Tamizh) and 'ள' as in (கள்) meaning, 'toddy' for the harsher pronunciation of 'la'. The two sounds are produced depending on where the tip of the tongue meets with the upper palate. For 'ழ' the tongue touches that portion of the upper palate closest to the back of the front teeth while for 'ள' the tongue curves further inside to touch the area in the middle of the upper palate.
On a side note, Dileep. I am surprised anyone suggested that malayalam doesn't have the letter for 'zha'. He probably hasn't heard of the town 'Kazhakootam' near Trivandrum which hosts a Sainik school in its confines %

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 19 Jan 2020 14:57

Well lyricist Vairamuthu immortalized it in the famous song as "thamizhukku zha azhaku". It was comedian Vinu Chakravarthy who used to make it a point always. (Yes, I am fluent in thamizh)

And the mention of Marathi reminds me of an ex colleague with last name karhaLe, who used to clearly pronounce the sound.