Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Haresh » 19 Jan 2020 03:10

Rony wrote:Mizoram and Nagaland are Christian Kashmirs


You are right. I saw some video on the @noconversion twitter handle about some xtians in south India demanding a breakaway for a xtian state. I think if it happens, anywhere, the GoI should just flood the area with Dharmics. They should start in the NE states now. A massive temple building program.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby KJo » 19 Jan 2020 05:30

What happened to all the Ghar Wapsi programs when Modi first came to power in 2014? We don't hear about them anymore. Have they stopped or have they become covert?

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Karthik S » 19 Jan 2020 08:10

KJo wrote:What happened to all the Ghar Wapsi programs when Modi first came to power in 2014? We don't hear about them anymore. Have they stopped or have they become covert?


AFAIK, those were one of rare occurrences, we are not into conversion/re-conversion business.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Jan 2020 11:32

If Hindus want to survive, they may want to reconsider.

There is room for people like Tahir Gora. He seems to have declared his dharma publicly on Canadian television.

If there is room for reasonable, articulate people like Gora then why discriminate against the aam Adam-i?

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Karthik S » 19 Jan 2020 11:43

Sanjay sir, there can't be any discrimination, when people convert, they take along their caste with them to their new religion, have seen it all in AP and TN. So if at all they reconvert, they'd still belong to their original caste but with ancestral religion.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Jan 2020 11:58

Caste and privilege are inextricably linked. As the economy provides patronage for a new privilege, caste will be eventually a historical relic.

I often remark on the mid and “low caste” women of UP. They can be exquisitely fine featured and attractive. Caste loses its meaning easily.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Philip » 19 Jan 2020 12:18

This is the disease in the "Christian" community with converts. Most have converted to get rid of their caste backgrounds and socially move upward, but discover that so-called upper- caste Christians control certain churches and keep them out of parish committees,etc.Virtual wars are going on in dioceses where difference church names can indicate which caste runs the show.Elections for
the post of Bishop are as sordid as in our political elections. Frankly,there is little "Christian" in such cases.It is a mere label for acquiring power,influence and money and worst of all,these activities are encouraged by political parties of ALL hues,as they want the caste votes!

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Jan 2020 18:23

No Indian can do Christianity better than the white man. Where Christianity has enfolded other races, a most comfortable segregation has been practiced. Whether it is in Ghana or Mississippi. Whether it is Jim Crow laws or whites only churches.

Indians have been sold some opium of Christian love and charity totally at variance with Christianity’s historical and contemporary record. Arundhati Roy will never tilt at these windmills. Baptists in India will never show footage of hurricae Katrina in their parishes. They would not dare question the white man on their practice of religion.

The social contract in India is such that Hindus have consented to maintain certain fictions whilst being r(e)aped.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Haresh » 19 Jan 2020 18:43

Some decent xtian love.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressi ... half-black

And of course if they can't have their own way, they can always cry persecution!!

https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2020/01/ ... -partners/

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Rony » 19 Jan 2020 19:25

Philip wrote:This is the disease in the "Christian" community with converts. Most have converted to get rid of their caste backgrounds and socially move upward, but discover that so-called upper- caste Christians control certain churches and keep them out of parish committees,etc.Virtual wars are going on in dioceses where difference church names can indicate which caste runs the show.Elections for
the post of Bishop are as sordid as in our political elections. Frankly,there is little "Christian" in such cases.It is a mere label for acquiring power,influence and money and worst of all,these activities are encouraged by political parties of ALL hues,as they want the caste votes!


Cant speak of other states but in AP, contrary to the propaganda, the first christians were upper castes Reddys from rayalaseema, upper caste Kammas and Kapus in Coastal Andhra. It was these upper caste pastors who became native informants for British and American missionaries. Together they came up with these propaganda narratives of "casteless christianity" and "social advancements for lower castes who convert" even though they themselves have no intention of giving up their caste privilege. Even now, most of the christian leadership in AP are upper caste converts.

Now conversion became a big business model.

step 1. Convert to Christianity yourself
step 2- Approach a US or European missionary organization and give them a project plan on who many people you can convert for how much price.
step 3 - recruit some people locally (who will also convert for money) and with their help meet your conversion targets
step 4- Request more money from your foreign sponsors for more conversions.

Between step 2 and 3, there is lot of scope to swindle money for yourself and make yourself rich.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Jan 2020 23:03

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressi ... half-black


The man should be lauded for articulating the unspoken thoughts of millions of Christians. A true servant of humanity.

I must confess that I stopped dismissing the Royal Highnesses as chinless half-wits when this half savage darky was accepted into their fold. I have developed a certain admiration for their guts.

Egad, to be chastened by an English tourist attraction.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 20 Jan 2020 08:23

https://youtu.be/NNdgGttyvyA?t=2011

The reason why American Christians are superior to Indian Christians.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Rony » 20 Jan 2020 17:55

‘Soldiers of Jesus’: Armed neo-Pentecostals torment Brazil’s religious minorities

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/th ... story.html

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Philip » 20 Jan 2020 21:08

Rony,the mercenary model you mentioned is a v.popular one.Around 5 years ago the going rate was allegedly 2 lakhs per family member. Numbers at meetings and no. of conversions bring in the bacon. The US fundoos are allegedly the ones pushing this line of action. There is even in one state a " bishop" of the EJ churches, politically orriented, not recognised by mainstrwam churches, whom I had to warn a few years ago not to interfere in a certain matter. He wisely didn't.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Rony » 10 Feb 2020 19:52

In Vijayawada, AP, A new church with over 3500 seating capacity is being envisioned at the foot of Gunadala hill. What started as a small prayer service for inmates of St Joseph's orphanage in 1923 is now the second biggest pilgrimage center for Christians in South India next only to Velankkani Church in Tamil Nadu. They created a whole ecosystem on the Gunadala hill. Half of the hill is encroached and houses built.

Step 1 : Start a orphanage and claim to help people. Conversion slowly starts.
Step 2 : Construct a small church/prayer hall for the inmates of those orphanage
Step 3 : After expansion of conversions and increase of converts, create a bigger church and make it a pilgrimage site
Step 4 : Now after reaching a critical mass, make a claim on the city that Vijayawada is no longer only a city of KanakaDurga but also a city of Marymata.

Centenary church to mark 100 yrs of Gunadala shrine

A statue of Mother Mary, weighing 300 kgs, was brought to the city from Italy in 1951 and was installed in the cave replacing the one that was initially installed in 1924. “The city (Vijayawada) is blessed with deities presiding over it on two sides. While goddess Kanakadurga sits atop Indrakeeladri hill on one side, Mother Mary is there on Gunadala hill on the other side,” says Fr EW Jaya Rajuthe, the shrine’s rector.
“We see a lot of non-Catholics visiting the shrine regularly. Hindus and Muslims perform their own style of rituals here, which we welcome,” he added

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Rony » 10 Feb 2020 20:33

Despite Being CAA Beneficiary, Church Sees Gains From A Limited Tactical Alliance With Mosque

Last month, Joseph Powathil, Archbishop of the Syro-Malabar Church, opposed the CAA on the ground that it was an effort by the government to drive a wedge between Christians and Muslims. Last week, the Archbishop of Goa, Filipe Neri Ferrao, called on the government to “immediately and unconditionally revoke the Citizenship Amendment Act (CAA)” and stop stamping on the “right to dissent”. He said the laws were “divisive and discriminatory” and will damage the country’s multi-cultural democracy. Apparently, he thinks that the church’s own agenda of pitting upper caste Hindus against Dalits, and the “one true god” against worshippers of “false gods” is somehow not divisive.

This marks an about-turn for the church, for in December 2019, soon after the CAA was passed by Parliament, George Kurian, Vice-Chairman of the National Minorities Commission, welcomed the CAA. He pointed out that “those who are vociferously advocating minority rights in India are silent on the persecution of minorities in Pakistan.” Kurian said the commission had received several messages from many Christian denominations welcoming the act. “They tell me”, he is quoted as saying, “justice has finally been done to Christians who are victims of draconian blasphemy laws, religious conversions and abductions.”

The church in India has clearly had a rethink, if one were to go by the anti-CAA statements of the two archbishops. They have probably calculated that despite their interest in protecting the Christian minorities in Pakistan and Bangladesh, the real market for conversion is in India, and this requires the church to play the victim card in India and oppose most things that the Narendra Modi government does.

The church has taken this stance even though it knows that in Kerala Christians are also being targeted by Islamist groups. The same Syro-Malabar Church earlier alleged that Christian girls were being targeted and killed by jihadists through ‘love jihad’.

The church probably believes that its long-term conversion agenda will be hampered if it is seen as supportive of CAA, since this will then open another front with the Islamists when it would prefer to target the Modi government over its alleged Hindutva agenda. The church’s conversion agenda works best in a climate where it can claim victimisation by Hindutva forces when raising funds abroad. This needs it to forge a tactical alliance with Islamists in India, even though its long-term rival in the marketplace for conversions is Islam.

The archbishops can clearly be accused of hypocrisy, for in India it is only minorities who get special laws – from separate minority commissions to the constitutionally-mandated right to administer their own educational and religious institutions. The fact that such religion-based discrimination exists against the majority community is being deliberately ignored by the church in pursuit of its narrower conversion agenda, which requires it to paint Hindus (or rather Hindutva) as some kind of Frankenstein monster preying on the poor and the weak – and the minorities.

It is clear that church and mosque have closed ranks in order to pursue their own conversion agendas. Their interests do not coincide on the CAA, but their longer-term agendas do find a temporary point of tactical convergence.


Until recently, while Muslim organisations have been vociferous in their anti-CAA protests, the church has kept quiet. Now, that silence has ended, for the church sees short-term benefits in a tactical alliance between two of India’s minorities.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 24 Feb 2020 00:26


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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JE Menon » 22 Apr 2020 15:09

Looking for something folks. There was a brutal and scathing critique of Christianity from a Jewish perspective by Marcus something or other (a French-sounding name), an American intellectual in the early 20th century. It was posted here. I wanted to save it, but postponed it and forgot about it. Now I am desperately searching for it... I'm sure someone here remembers it. Please if you can relink to it, will be wonderful.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby chanakyaa » 22 Apr 2020 20:07


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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JE Menon » 22 Apr 2020 21:11

Sadly no... It was a truly brutal critique, hit at the heart of everything... and explained in a way the problem that the Christians of Europe face.. I remember it was Marcus de something ... Damn, what a fool I was. Should have downloaded it asap.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby vsunder » 22 Apr 2020 21:20

JE Menon wrote:Sadly no... It was a truly brutal critique, hit at the heart of everything... and explained in a way the problem that the Christians of Europe face.. I remember it was Marcus de something ... Damn, what a fool I was. Should have downloaded it asap.


JEM: There is a "high profile" British mathematician Marcus du Sautoy who holds the Simonyi chair at Oxford, on Science, Religion etc and makes lots of movies. He is everywhere though I do not know what he has done mathematically :rotfl: . He says he is a Number theorist who has worked on the Riemann hypothesis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_du_Sautoy

He was born and brought up in the UK but spent time on a kibbutz and at the Hebrew univ. in Jerusalem where he met his Israeli wife Shani Ram.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Haresh » 23 Apr 2020 17:57

Anointed with Oil: Evangelicals and the Petroleum Industry
"Faith shaped the practices and in certain situations malpractices of the industry in a number of ways. Oil historians may be surprised to hear it, but in some instances oil’s corporate structures evolved directly out of the theological commitments of its leaders."

"to open new territories up to oil was, in their minds, a step toward the spiritual uplift of humanity. Be it in the Middle East or South America, missionaries always played key roles in this process (as guides and liaisons, for instance), further embedding Christians at the heart of the oil business."

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blog ... -industry/

How Does the Church Affect the Oil Industry?

https://www.petro-online.com/news/fuel- ... nbsp/34787

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby chanakyaa » 23 Apr 2020 18:43

JE Menon wrote:...There was a brutal and scathing critique of Christianity from a Jewish perspective by Marcus something or other (a French-sounding name), an American intellectual in the early 20th century...

JEM, i think this may be it.

Name is Marcus Eli Ravage (June 25, 1884, Bârlad, Romania – October 6, 1965 Grasse, France) was a Jewish American immigrant writer who wrote many books and articles about immigration in America and Europe between the world wars -- from Wikichaha

And, the article you may be referring to is Commissary to the Gentiles on archive.org

He further refers to The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Gibbon

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Haresh » 23 Apr 2020 22:08

LOOK WHAT I FOUND WHEN I GOOGLED "CHRISTIAN FASCISM BOLIVIA"

Christiananity is a white western colonial project.

https://theconversation.com/old-religio ... ent-127000

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp ... 7657241956


AND

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1ND ... ent=psy-ab

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby JE Menon » 23 Apr 2020 23:38

Vsunder, thanks for that reminder. Yes du Sautoy I knew about and have even watched a few of his lectures on youtube. I always thought he must be a mathematician of some note, because that's how he is introduced. Your comments give pause for thought, now, as they always do.

Chanakyaa

Thanks a ton. I knew that BRF would be the place to ask this question. This is definitely the guy, although that's not the tract I was looking for. There is a much more concise and brutal one - which absolutely cuts to the bone. But this is the guy. I got his name now, so I'm off after that pamphlet which he wrote. Thank you very much indeed.

Found it: Download and Read. Absolute must.

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDFs/Ravag ... 201928.pdf

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 24 Apr 2020 00:27

By what metric is worshipping a fictions Jew nobler than worshipping Apollo?

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 24 Apr 2020 03:21

Dang autocorrect... that should be ..fictitious.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby chanakyaa » 08 May 2020 20:16

JE Menon wrote:...
Found it: Download and Read. Absolute must.

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDFs/Ravag ... 201928.pdf

@JEM, a big Thank You to you for your original post. I've been very interested in the subject, but couldn't commit myself to any serious reading. Your post lead me to following 2 readings, and it turned out to be a eureka moment. It not only clarified the foundation of this great peaceful :wink: relijion (and it its middle yeastern cosin) but also the behavioral foundation that lead to geopolitical events of past centuries. I must be pretty late to this understanding compared to BRF standard. Additionally, all that is going around today with geopolitics and geoeconomics makes complete (or almost complete) sense, to the point of feeling myself singing Jimmy Cliff

I can see clearly now the rain is gone
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It's gonna be a bright (bright)
Bright (bright) sunshiny day...


These two references have been made by many other posters on BRF, but I'm reposting for the benefit of some late-to-the-realization abduls like myself.
The Darkening Age (Catherine Nixey)

And, the best. PDFs are on the archive.org
The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (Edward Gibbon)

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby chanakyaa » 10 May 2020 02:26

Continuing on the topic, it was interesting to learn that the critique of this peaceful relijion in the early years (60-100 AD)was met with brutal suppression. I searched the BRF site for any postings on these names, but did not find any posts, so I'm posting here.

It seems like the early critique by a Greek philosopher named Celsus documented in The True Word was completely destroyed (no surprise). But, the rebuttal to his work by Origen has survived in, Against Celsus (Contra Celsum),which almost reconstructed 70%-80% of the work of Celsus. Contra Celsum, fortunately, exists in its original form preserved entirely in Greek. Contra Celsum is available in English on archive.org. Just search for "Celsus Origen". The document is fantastic read. Celsus pretty much tore apart all the foundational elements of this relijion's pillars (as without any reason, stupid, and backward).

Other philosophers who have studied this religion and written a strong critique are Porphyry and Galen.

After reading all this, oh man, we're crazy not to outright BAN the converjion bijjness. At the very least the historical jeehad against old world must be taught in schools/colleges and debated in open.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 10 May 2020 05:31

Wait until India is a 10 trillion economy, jihad and conversion thinking will turn accommodative without need for any nudges.

NYT and WaPo, economist et al will turn fawning. They know it, only Indians don't.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Haresh » 10 May 2020 23:08

"Converting entire countries has proven to be a time-tested way to subjugate nations and ensure the compliance of the people, who, upon changing their religious affiliations, turn into passive supporters of western foreign policy."

https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/worl ... oronavirus

Would the Vietnam war have gone on for as long as it dis, without the support of fanatical christians in the South?

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 11 May 2020 01:35

We’ll see if visas are given.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 14 May 2020 04:55

https://www.christianpost.com/news/chri ... s-say.html


Christians take time out from pedophilia, gay bashing, segregated churches, colonialism, genocides etc. Be thankful.

Too bad its a bit short on verifiable facts. But that never stopped Christians in their religion before.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby vimal » 14 May 2020 05:05

This news is peddled by one "John Prabhudoss".

Heres what wiki has to say about this doss guy.

In 2000, when Atal Bihari Vajpayee, the then Prime Minister of India belonging to a Hindu fundamentalist political party visited Washington, D.C., Prabhudoss coordinated their efforts to highlight the violence against Christian communities carried out by the radical Hindu groups in India which began after the Hindu party came to power there. That successful effort brought major Indian American Christian leaders of various denominations together to create the Federation of Indian American Christian Organizations (of North America).

Prabhudoss has been working with successive US Administrations since then to help shape US policies towards India while keeping the violence against Christian church in India in its focus.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 14 May 2020 05:21

My bad, sincere apologies. Christians aren't waiting for atheists to provide treatment for the Chinese virus.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... virus-cure
https://www.newindianexpress.com/world/ ... 42855.html

On Wednesday Australia’s drugs regulator, the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA), said the Australian chapter of the Genesis II Church of Health and Healing had been fined for selling and promoting a solution containing sodium chlorite, a chemical used as a textile bleaching agent and disinfectant.


Australian 'healing church' defends bleach sales after US coronavirus cure claims

The Australian website for the church, MMS Australia, falsely claimed the solution could treat, cure, prevent and alleviate diseases including Covid-19, HIV and cancer, the TGA said.

It has been revealed that Genesis II church US leader, Mark Grenon, wrote to Donald Trump just days before the US president claimed disinfectant could be a coronavirus cure.

The letter stated that chlorine dioxide – a powerful bleach used in industrial processes such as textile manufacturing that can have fatal side-effects when drunk – is “a wonderful detox that can kill 99% of the pathogens in the body”. He added that it “can rid the body of Covid-19”.


The best part:

An Australian representative of the church’s MMS Australia Foundation previously told Guardian Australia: “Do you go into the Catholic church and question them about the wine or the bread that they serve in the Eucharist? No, so why doesn’t the world leave us alone? These are our sacraments and we should be free to use it and teach other people to use it.”

Of note this credible approach was carried in an Indian newspaper. Might it not hurt religious sentiments, especially of those with an Ahh Koo over 65?

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Haresh » 14 May 2020 14:53

sanjaykumar wrote:Christians take time out from pedophilia, gay bashing, segregated churches, colonialism, genocides etc. Be thankful.

Too bad its a bit short on verifiable facts. But that never stopped Christians in their religion before.


There is only one comment on that FARTicle.

What we have to do is leave our own opinions/comments refuting them. They should be reminded continuosly of the genocide of 2 million Vietnamese Buddhists during the US war. Plus those killed by the French.
The S. Korea persecution discrimination against Buddhists, the genocidal conquest of Phillipines, the Americas, Africa, Austrailia etc.

Plenty of ammo, we should be joining their discussion/comments forums and reminding them.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 14 May 2020 20:28

Let’s see Indian media take the lead. Coupled with the poor educational standards, and a political disincentive there is cultural reluctance to be in your face.

I certainly have no intention of fighting the Hindu’ battles for them.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby Haresh » 14 May 2020 22:14

sanjaykumar wrote:Let’s see Indian media take the lead. Coupled with the poor educational standards, and a political disincentive there is cultural reluctance to be in your face.

I certainly have no intention of fighting the Hindu’ battles for them.


The Indian media won't take the lead, they will ignore.

Poor educational standards???

I don't think many if any contributors to BRF have poor educational standards.

Nothing wrong with being in their face, we have to be, otherwise they they will never be confronted with their own lies.

I write this as someone who is a "cultural" Indian, in the very loose and vague sense. However it really does infuriate me the way we are portrayed as somehow barbaric and uncivilised. Just been watching the ten part series "The Vietnam War" the horror they unleashed on that peaceful land and its people, with the assistance of their converted lapdogs.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 14 May 2020 22:28

BRF has some very intelligent accomplished people. I was referring to the Indian media.

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Re: Christianity, Evangelism & its geopolitical impact

Postby sanjaykumar » 14 May 2020 22:33

It’s called “projection”. Your history is barbarism and you displace it onto the heathen. Very simple.


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