India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[Rishi_Tri]

Trump Visit to India - India Loves Trump - WSJ Print Edition end of Trip Coverage

[chetak]

Maria Abi-Habib @Abihabib
India has long demanded more clout globally, as the world’s largest democracy. But after violence exploded on Delhi’s streets, that premise is now being questioned. via @NYTimes

Mohandas Pai @TVMohandasPai
Questioned by whom? It is India’s right as 5th largest economy with 17% of global population not a privilege given by Anybody! This arrogant article by a nobody shows what is wrong with @nytimes tirade against India

[schinnas]

It is the arrogant colonial minded racist attitude that should be called out for what it is. Such attitude considers Indians less worthy than Westerners and should be condemned and ridiculed by Indian media, atleast by those who have common sense and a backbone.

[Rony]

It could also be that her son-in-law is one of those Ro Khanna, Pramila Jayapal types and she was feeded more ignorance. Frankly, both in US and UK, its those leftie Indian types who are more pain in the ass than the WASP folks.
...
.

Especially the desi guys who marry a certain kind of firang native.

Two words: Sadanand Dhume.

Two more: Ameya Pawar.

Dhume presents himself as "conservative" among his firangi friends and got himself a job in AEI and WSJ but portrays Indian conservatives to US audience as far-far-far-Right wing nutjobs who are not really conservative. ALL his fellow travelling friends on twitter who rt's his ridiculous tweets are Indian or US libtards. If he gives the kind of sermons he gives to Indian conservatives to his US conservative buddies, he would be kicked on his face and thrown out. He knows that and thats why you never see him commenting on them. Dhume types are just opportunists who have no ideology or anything.

[KLNMurthy]

Nonalignment Nuances: America Is Laying the Groundwork for a Stronger Relationship With India

TL;DR: slow and steady wins the race for a US-India alliance.

Not new info for BRF, but useful to know what kind of conversations US foreign policy establishment is having about US-India relationship.

[chetak]

Nonalignment Nuances: America Is Laying the Groundwork for a Stronger Relationship With India

TL;DR: slow and steady wins the race for a US-India alliance.

Not new info for BRF, but useful to know what kind of conversations US foreign policy establishment is having about US-India relationship.

currently, we are the flavor of the month because of afpak and china.

our "interests" have converged momentarily at this point in time solely because trump desires it be so.

It would be rather unwise to see any sort of future for this unequal relationship even in the medium to long term.

trump has recognized that the US's unwarranted military profligacy over the decades has cost them very dearly and while militarily, administration after administration has been relentlessly focussed outward to other continents, china has sneaked in and burrowed very deeply into the very vitals of the financial heart, the industrial body and the academic soul of the US and now is openly challenging the much vaunted US exceptionalism.

one wonders what would be the imperatives to drive such an India US relationship even five years hence.

[Prem]

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/20 ... mQmt3JKipp
Trump and Modi were both outsiders whose rapid rise to the highest office surprised their national establishment. In fact, like the Washington establishment’s inveterate antipathy to Trump, the privileged New Delhi elite has never accepted Modi, despite his landslide re-election win more than nine months ago. And, like Trump, Modi has been savaged in the Western media, with the criticisms lapped up by his domestic critics, whose own accusations, in turn, are picked up by the same press, ensuring a self-sustaining cycle.
Against this background, Trump and Modi consciously eschewed saying anything during the visit that could give a handle to each other’s domestic critics. For example, asked about a recent amendment to India’s citizenship law that has rancorously pitted Modi’s supporters against his critics, the U.S. president dismissed the issue as India’s internal matter.

[nvishal]

Nonalignment Nuances: America Is Laying the Groundwork for a Stronger Relationship With India

TL;DR: slow and steady wins the race for a US-India alliance.

Not new info for BRF, but useful to know what kind of conversations US foreign policy establishment is having about US-India relationship.

Multi-alignment is something all our neighbours do.

China has positioned itself as a major supplier of growth to the world, india included. There is no culture on this planet that can match the innovation and generic manufacturing skills of the han. The Americans/west already peaked and are now on a slump as their time is over.

The last India will do is fight someone else's war. Especially against someone that is now an instrinic part of our construction, pharma and electronics/communication industry.

[ramana]

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/20 ... mQmt3JKipp
Trump and Modi were both outsiders whose rapid rise to the highest office surprised their national establishment. In fact, like the Washington establishment’s inveterate antipathy to Trump, the privileged New Delhi elite has never accepted Modi, despite his landslide re-election win more than nine months ago. And, like Trump, Modi has been savaged in the Western media, with the criticisms lapped up by his domestic critics, whose own accusations, in turn, are picked up by the same press, ensuring a self-sustaining cycle.
Against this background, Trump and Modi consciously eschewed saying anything during the visit that could give a handle to each other’s domestic critics. For example, asked about a recent amendment to India’s citizenship law that has rancorously pitted Modi’s supporters against his critics, the U.S. president dismissed the issue as India’s internal matter.

Carroll Quigley in his awesome book 'Evolution of Civilizations' calls this the periphery conquering the core and is the start of a renewal of the civilization's expansion.

When an outsider enters politics and manages to capture the core and establishes a renewed spirit.
The old order has three choices: fight the outsider, ignore the outsider, or adopt the outsider.
Only those civilizations that adopted the outsider survived.

These seven stages we shall name as follows:
1. Mixture
2. Gestation
3. Expansion
4. Age of Conflict
5. Universal Empire
6. Decay
7. Invasion

[ramana]

BTW Bay Area Twitter is agog with news that MEA cancelled Ro Khanna's visit to India which he was announcing in his press releases.
He claimed he was member of Pak Caucus so he could be an interlocutor between India and Pakistan!!!

[pankajs]

https://twitter.com/State_SCA/status/12 ... 0041567232

State_SCA @State_SCA

A free and independent press plays an invaluable role in shining light on abuse, and is an indispensable pillar of every democracy. Congrats to @Nidhi and @ndtv on winning the International Press Institute award for their superb reporting. AGW

[Mort Walker]

BTW Bay Area Twitter is agog with news that MEA cancelled Ro Khanna's visit to India which he was announcing in his press releases.
He claimed he was member of Pak Caucus so he could be an interlocutor between India and Pakistan!!!

Good. Did they cancel his visa? They should cancel the visas of everyone on his staff and his family members too. Make sure that SOB or his family never set foot in India again.

[Karan M]

As open as it gets who is NDTV's master and note the first sentence:
A free and independent press plays an invaluable role in shining light on abuse

Basically these SD old school types can't stand assertive brownies, and NDTV is their cats paw to ensure the NYT, NPR types make sure the Dindoos know their real place. I hope Modi works with Trump to get these jackasses their comeuppance.

[ramana]

NDTV is basically where Congress and PC parked their loot.

[schinnas]

BTW Bay Area Twitter is agog with news that MEA cancelled Ro Khanna's visit to India which he was announcing in his press releases.
He claimed he was member of Pak Caucus so he could be an interlocutor between India and Pakistan!!!

Is there a way to make Ro Khanna see reason. We have very few PIO congressmen/women. Shouldn't let all of them turn hostile. Assuming there is no inherent hostility and just they have assimilated the US leftist worldview on India (aided by Indian leftists) we should look at engaging them behind the scenes to change their mindset. Get reliable people of caliber into their staff and ensure they get acces to the right / complete information.

While he is crossing a line with joining Pak caucus, etc., it's still not too late to make him see reason.

[ramana]

We should take this offline.

[Mort Walker]

BTW Bay Area Twitter is agog with news that MEA cancelled Ro Khanna's visit to India which he was announcing in his press releases.
He claimed he was member of Pak Caucus so he could be an interlocutor between India and Pakistan!!!

Is there a way to make Ro Khanna see reason. We have very few PIO congressmen/women. Shouldn't let all of them turn hostile. Assuming there is no inherent hostility and just they have assimilated the US leftist worldview on India (aided by Indian leftists) we should look at engaging them behind the scenes to change their mindset. Get reliable people of caliber into their staff and ensure they get acces to the right / complete information.

While he is crossing a line with joining Pak caucus, etc., it's still not too late to make him see reason.

Ro Khanna is an Urban Naxal Party donkey turd. No other way to put it. The only way he will see reason is to defeat him. California is a gone state like Illinois. Trump should dismiss CA government and put it under martial law and lock up all of the state’s leadership. They’ve mishandled the Coronavirus outbreak, fires and dropping law suits like bird turds.

[vijayk]

BTW Bay Area Twitter is agog with news that MEA cancelled Ro Khanna's visit to India which he was announcing in his press releases.
He claimed he was member of Pak Caucus so he could be an interlocutor between India and Pakistan!!!

Is there a way to make Ro Khanna see reason. We have very few PIO congressmen/women. Shouldn't let all of them turn hostile. Assuming there is no inherent hostility and just they have assimilated the US leftist worldview on India (aided by Indian leftists) we should look at engaging them behind the scenes to change their mindset. Get reliable people of caliber into their staff and ensure they get acces to the right / complete information.

While he is crossing a line with joining Pak caucus, etc., it's still not too late to make him see reason.

He is seeing reason. They have no way of going up in that messed up party until they go full crazy on India and become a tool of Islamists to impress their progressive turds.

Why there is so much obsession on India for filthy human garbage on the left? Even accountants and lawyers I met have no idea of India or PM, let alone BJP or RSS. Why do these lunatics keep bringing up these? To counter the well established narrative of Islamic terror since 911. They have to divert it to some other entities to make them respectable. Pee Khanna and Pramila simply catering to them to advance their careers because Islamists are funding them

[Vips]

Turds like Pramila and Ro Khanna are also assuming that barring a few republican supporters, Indians will as always vote for the Democratic Party in big numbers, so taking them for granted they are trying their best to lick the ground where peacefools, leftists and psuedos walk.

[nachiket]

The mistake we make is expecting PIO's in the US or state legislatures to somehow be sympathetic towards Indian interests. Their ability to get elected and stay in power depends on them not doing exactly that. It would be far too easy for their rivals in the same party to take them down if they could somehow be portrayed has harboring sympathies for a foreign country. This is especially true in the Democratic party of today where anyone deviating from the hard-left SJW dogma with their victim hierarchy and intersectionality nonsense can and will be taken down unless they have their own base of support like Biden. In the the usual SJW victimization pyramid, Muslims are considered the most-oppressed and anyone questioning that narrative will be discredited as an Islamophobic, bigoted racist. When it comes to India, the job of these nutbags is made 400% easier thanks to the Indian leftist media cretins of the Barkha Dutt, Rana Ayyub variety along with their PIO counterparts like Sadanand Dhume providing them more than enough ammo to use against us and propogate their favored narrative of Modi being the next Hitler who is oppressing Muslims.

[Sumeet]

What is SJW ?

[Rony]

Social justice warrior aka Lunatic leftists

Now the Lunatic leftists foreign policy wonks are asking for Arms sales ban to India. That is why India's relations with US should always be transactional and we should never be India's dominant arms sales partner. They will back stab India depending on their presidents political proclivities of the time. Today, the relations are good because Trump is not SJW. What if hypothetically a HRC or Bernie like person becomes a President few years down the line ?

No Arms for Modi

[vera_k]

From what I see, there is a concerted effort by the American Muslim community to contest elections, with some success. Someone like Khanna would have to beat out these candidates and in the process take their concerns on board.

[Cain Marko]

Social justice warrior aka Lunatic leftists

Now the Lunatic leftists foreign policy wonks are asking for Arms sales ban to India. That is why India's relations with US should always be transactional and we should never be India's dominant arms sales partner. They will back stab India depending on their presidents political proclivities of the time. Today, the relations are good because Trump is not SJW. What if hypothetically a HRC or Bernie like person becomes a President few years down the line ?

No Arms for Modi

Ronyji, That's just a blog piece, no? I doubt that arms deals with the biggest market are going to stop with any US admins in the near future. India however needs to extract a serious guarantee of sanction proofing either via some kind of tech sharing or manufacturing rights.

[kancha]

Carroll Quigley in his awesome book 'Evolution of Civilizations' calls this the periphery conquering the core and is the start of a renewal of the civilization's expansion.

Attack an enemy at his weak points instead of engaging him at his strong holds. Just like its easy to pick the hot rice from corners of a plate than its center. - Chanakya to Chandragupt.

[pankajs]

https://www.rt.com/news/422563-saudi-wa ... countries/
Spread of Wahhabism was done at request of West during Cold War – Saudi crown prince

The Saudi-funded spread of Wahhabism began as a result of Western countries asking Riyadh to help counter the Soviet Union during the Cold War, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman told the Washington Post.

Speaking to the paper, bin Salman said that Saudi Arabia's Western allies urged the country to invest in mosques and madrassas overseas during the Cold War, in an effort to prevent encroachment in Muslim countries by the Soviet Union.
Read more
1 3yrs of civilian deaths in Yemen don’t hold US & allies back from selling arms to Saudis – Amnesty

He added that successive Saudi governments had lost track of that effort, saying "we have to get it all back." Bin Salman also said that funding now comes mostly from Saudi-based "foundations," rather than from the government.

[KLNMurthy]

Trump should dismiss CA government and put it under martial law and lock up all of the state’s leadership. They’ve mishandled the Coronavirus outbreak, fires and dropping law suits like bird turds.

Steady on, bhaijaan!

[Mort Walker]

Trump should dismiss CA government and put it under martial law and lock up all of the state’s leadership. They’ve mishandled the Coronavirus outbreak, fires and dropping law suits like bird turds.

Steady on, bhaijaan!

And NY State government should also be dismissed. Idiot governor calls out National Guard to disinfect New Rochelle, NY north of Manhattan to clean/disinfect town. He should have asked for more testing kits which are now available. Creating a deliberate panic on Wall Street. This was done for political gain. Trump needs to lay down the law with these ******** and publicly threaten them with martial law.

[Rony]

Social justice warrior aka Lunatic leftists

Now the Lunatic leftists foreign policy wonks are asking for Arms sales ban to India. That is why India's relations with US should always be transactional and we should never be India's dominant arms sales partner. They will back stab India depending on their presidents political proclivities of the time. Today, the relations are good because Trump is not SJW. What if hypothetically a HRC or Bernie like person becomes a President few years down the line ?

No Arms for Modi

Ronyji, That's just a blog piece, no? I doubt that arms deals with the biggest market are going to stop with any US admins in the near future. India however needs to extract a serious guarantee of sanction proofing either via some kind of tech sharing or manufacturing rights.

American SJW types are increasingly seeing India through their "human rights" lens with India oppressing its poor Muslim (and Christian) minorities. At the very least US will play this good cop-bad cop thing with human rights being the stick to beat India with. I hope Indian policy makers think about this SJW influence on India-US ties aspect as well when they "embrace" America. Here is another US leftist foreign policy wonk on same questions from a US perspective.

INDIA’S NEW SECURITY ORDER

Future analyses of U.S. strategy toward India need to explicitly answer a set of important, and difficult, questions.

At the most basic level, should human rights and liberalism matter to U.S. policy toward India ? Views of broader Asia strategy may drive this answer. To those who see India as essential to a balancing coalition against China, the answer is likely to be no. For an Asia strategy that involves cultivating Thailand, Vietnam, and the Philippines, domestic illiberalism is no disqualification in pursuit of emerging great-power competition. For those who see India as helpful but not essential, or who are not as concerned about the rise of China, the answer may be quite different. In this view, India is more threatened by China than is the secure, distant United States, and so America has considerable room to maneuver. For either position, it is essential to be explicit about the trade-offs that may be involved.

If liberalism and human rights do matter, what would be the indicators of a break in “shared values”? If one is alarmed by trends in Indian politics, should the United States offer anything beyond polite diplomatic rhetoric in response? History suggests that there are serious limits to pushing India (for instance, threats to sanction Amit Shah seem likely to generate backlash) — but many in the United States are skeptical of embracing the BJP’s project, which cannot be cleanly disentangled from its most high-profile security policies. If current trends in Indian politics continue, this tension will increasingly confront those who see the Modi government as part of a transnational wave of illiberalism. A similarly delicate question is what kinds of Indian government activities within American politics should be viewed as appropriate, and which would cross the line into an open electoral intervention. Lobbying and diaspora mobilization are standard practice (including by Pakistan), but coordinated campaigns of leaks aimed at members of Congress or de facto endorsement of candidates would likely be seen as distinctly less so.

If the bipartisan political values pillar of the U.S.-India relationship weakens, it may focus American attention on bluntly transactional realpolitik and economic considerations even beyond the Trump administration. At this strategic level, the key question is whether and how to pursue conditionality around measurable outputs. What precisely should the United States expect from India in exchange for American technology, arms, market access, favorable immigration policy, and relief from sanctions related to purchases of Russian weaponry? Does the policy of “strategic altruism” that guided the Bush and Obama administrations remain relevant, or will Washington need a different approach that simultaneously avoids Trump’s incoherent blend of trade conflict and security cooperation? Those skeptical of India’s political direction may have a higher bar for Indian strategic convergence than those supportive of the Modi government. These dynamics will intersect with an Indian political arena in which deep historical suspicion of the United States can be found on both the left and right, adding further volatility.

American analysts, scholars, and policymakers will offer a wide, and likely conflicting, range of answers to each of these questions. The debate may end up reaffirming the status quo. Regardless, a new phase of Indian foreign policy requires an equal willingness to revisit American strategy.

[Pratyush]

Social justice warrior aka Lunatic leftists

Now the Lunatic leftists foreign policy wonks are asking for Arms sales ban to India. That is why India's relations with US should always be transactional and we should never be India's dominant arms sales partner. They will back stab India depending on their presidents political proclivities of the time. Today, the relations are good because Trump is not SJW. What if hypothetically a HRC or Bernie like person becomes a President few years down the line ?

No Arms for Modi

Ronyji, That's just a blog piece, no? I doubt that arms deals with the biggest market are going to stop with any US admins in the near future. India however needs to extract a serious guarantee of sanction proofing either via some kind of tech sharing or manufacturing rights.

While this is just a blog piece, i agree with the underlying sentiment that Indian arms purchases have to be transnational. As I remember when Obomber became potus he put on a review of all on going arms sales. Which resulted in the delivery of the LM2500 to be delayed for the Shivalik class by 6 to 9 months.

[Sumeet]

Thanks Rony.

I have seen similar lines of argument from Ian Bammer of if I recall correctly NYT (but don't quote me on this) and tweets from people like Mike Kugelman.

Is anyone tracking how Biden if he becomes POTUS in Nov 2020 will be for India ?

[Mort Walker]

Thanks Rony.

I have seen similar lines of argument from Ian Bammer of if I recall correctly NYT (but don't quote me on this) and tweets from people like Mike Kugelman.

Is anyone tracking how Biden if he becomes POTUS in Nov 2020 will be for India ?

He will be unequivocally bad for India and for Indian origin people in the US. He's suffering from early onset dementia. He's disengaged and needs to go to the old folks home. The urban naxal party will be running the government. Pelosi and Schumer are frothing at the mouth for him to be elected. The rest of the party has consolidated behind him. If these naxals can crash the US economy in the next several weeks, then Biden's ascent is guaranteed.

[Rishi_Tri]

Thanks Rony.

I have seen similar lines of argument from Ian Bammer of if I recall correctly NYT (but don't quote me on this) and tweets from people like Mike Kugelman.

Is anyone tracking how Biden if he becomes POTUS in Nov 2020 will be for India ?

He will be unequivocally bad for India and for Indian origin people in the US. He's suffering from early onset dementia. He's disengaged and needs to go to the old folks home. The urban naxal party will be running the government. Pelosi and Schumer are frothing at the mouth for him to be elected. The rest of the party has consolidated behind him. If these naxals can crash the US economy in the next several weeks, then Biden's ascent is guaranteed.

Biden will be tricky but Trump will have a few aces up his sleeve if the economy does crash. Trump will resort to emergency measures such as - cancelling all student debt. It shall deflate the agenda and give him the young insurgent vote. Economy shall be perfect excuse to push through a social act.

[ramana]

Thanks Rony.

I have seen similar lines of argument from Ian Bammer of if I recall correctly NYT (but don't quote me on this) and tweets from people like Mike Kugelman.

Is anyone tracking how Biden if he becomes POTUS in Nov 2020 will be for India ?

Remote to extremely low.

Democrats to garner Muslim votes have mainstreamed #Hinduphobia egged by "Progressive"* Gungadin Ro Khanna.

My fear is some nutcase will target Hindus spurred on by this free for all attack on Hindus.


#Hinduphobia is not a free speech matter but a Civil Rights issue.
We need to fund a Hindu Civil Rights Legal Union to take up Hindu Civil rights.

I hope that Trump second term will strengthen DOJ to expand the civil rights division to included crimes against Hindus.

* Ro Khanna is the grandson of a Congress State Govt Minister, and a two term Lok Sabha MP, claims his parents left India to seek a better future, in other words they were oppressed, and went to Uty of Chicago and Yale Law School, (elite education) and is married to a very high net worth lady. And claims to be progressive!!!

[ramana]

Also Bernie Sanders losing Michigan despite the heavy over the top endorsement by Muslims Imams etc is very good message to Democrats. Don't do that.

[Vikas]

Ramana ji, There is hardly any successful PIO in USA who doesn't claim a life of hardship and maybe oppression in India,
yet mysteriously they all end up in top notch US universities which mid you are pretty expensive and somehow get support and assistance whenever needed.

[Suraj]

Ramana ji, There is hardly any successful PIO in USA who doesn't claim a life of hardship and maybe oppression in India,
yet mysteriously they all end up in top notch US universities which mid you are pretty expensive and somehow get support and assistance whenever needed.

They need to state the prevailing long standing narrative that the US is the place that let them break free of shackles. Without that, they cannot place themselves within the firmament, and is essentially a creed that must be stated. It's an unwritten requirement of anyone aspiring to public office in US, unless you're from a line of work where it's better not to speak much about the opportunities you had. E.g. Melania Trump...

People don't take well when you tell them you're just an economic migrant who sees no dramatic difference in personal freedoms in the US vs in India . Women generally find more such freedoms than men, for social reasons. But in general you're 'expected' to claim the US is the beacon of freedom and liberty, failing which you're asked why you don't go back.

[schinnas]

Of all Democratic candidates, outside of Tulsi Gabbard, Joe Biden is the best bet for India. He has not joined other democratic candidates in spewing venom on India and was generally more positive towards India than Obama. Having been in govt, he knows the geo strategic game and why US needs India for its Indo Pacific strategy.

[Mort Walker]

Of all Democratic candidates, outside of Tulsi Gabbard, Joe Biden is the best bet for India. He has not joined other democratic candidates in spewing venom on India and was generally more positive towards India than Obama. Having been in govt, he knows the geo strategic game and why US needs India for its Indo Pacific strategy.

He is mentally incoherent. His time has passed.

[Sumeet]

Also Bernie Sanders losing Michigan despite the heavy over the top endorsement by Muslims Imams etc is very good message to Democrats. Don't do that.

Well in last elections wasn't it that HRC wanted to bring 10's of thousands of Syrian refugees into US and Trump openly called her out for that. That stance of her also played a role in her defeat.

In 2016 in Michigan Sanders defeated HRC due to heavy endorsement by Muslim religious/cultural/political leaders rallying Arab population to vote for him enmasse.

We must not put our fruits in one basket (Trump) only even though he will be a good friend of India and most likely to return to power. Efforts must be made to get hold of Biden and his inner circle mates.