Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 20 Mar 2020 11:37

A Trial of Lopinavir–Ritonavir in Adults Hospitalized with Severe Covid-19

METHODS
We conducted a randomized, controlled, open-label trial involving hospitalized adult patients with confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, which causes the respiratory illness Covid-19, and an oxygen saturation (Sao2) of 94% or less while they were breathing ambient air or a ratio of the partial pressure of oxygen (Pao2) to the fraction of inspired oxygen (Fio2) of less than 300 mm Hg. Patients were randomly assigned in a 1:1 ratio to receive either lopinavir–ritonavir (400 mg and 100 mg, respectively) twice a day for 14 days, in addition to standard care, or standard care alone. The primary end point was the time to clinical improvement, defined as the time from randomization to either an improvement of two points on a seven-category ordinal scale or discharge from the hospital, whichever came first.

RESULTS
A total of 199 patients with laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection underwent randomization; 99 were assigned to the lopinavir–ritonavir group, and 100 to the standard-care group. Treatment with lopinavir–ritonavir was not associated with a difference from standard care in the time to clinical improvement (hazard ratio for clinical improvement, 1.24; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.90 to 1.72). Mortality at 28 days was similar in the lopinavir–ritonavir group and the standard-care group (19.2% vs. 25.0%; difference, −5.8 percentage points; 95% CI, −17.3 to 5.7). The percentages of patients with detectable viral RNA at various time points were similar. In a modified intention-to-treat analysis, lopinavir–ritonavir led to a median time to clinical improvement that was shorter by 1 day than that observed with standard care (hazard ratio, 1.39; 95% CI, 1.00 to 1.91). Gastrointestinal adverse events were more common in the lopinavir–ritonavir group, but serious adverse events were more common in the standard-care group. Lopinavir–ritonavir treatment was stopped early in 13 patients (13.8%) because of adverse events.

CONCLUSIONS
In hospitalized adult patients with severe Covid-19, no benefit was observed with lopinavir–ritonavir treatment beyond standard care. Future trials in patients with severe illness may help to confirm or exclude the possibility of a treatment benefit.

so clearly news about HIV medicin working for COVID19 is not correct.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 20 Mar 2020 11:52

The CA orders basically extend the Bay Area restrictions statewide .

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 20 Mar 2020 11:54

Do not mean to derail, can anybody tell how to upload a webm to this site, will delete after.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 20 Mar 2020 12:35

1. No scheduled international commercial passenger aircraft shall take off from
any foreign airport for any airport in India, after 0001 hrs GMT of March 22,
2020 (*i.e. 0531 hrs Indian Standard Time (IST) of March 22, 2020). These
instructions shall remain in force till 0001 hrs GMT of March 29, 2020.
2. A maximum travel time of 20 hours is permissible for such commercial
passenger aircraft to land in India.
3. As such, no incoming scheduled international commercial passenger aircraft
shall be allowed to disembark its passengers *on Indian soil* (Foreigner or
Indian) after 2001 hrs GMT of March 22, 2020 (*i.e. 0131hrs IST of March
23, 2020).
4. These instructions are in addition to the travel restrictions/ advisories already
issued and under implementation.
5. The above are temporary measures to restrict the spread of COVID-19, and
are subject to review by Government.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 20 Mar 2020 12:40

ricky_v wrote:Do not mean to derail, can anybody tell how to upload a webm to this site, will delete after.

I don't think you can, also webm wont work on most Apple mobile devices. Upload the webm to some site, share the link here.

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 20 Mar 2020 12:44

Vikas wrote:Where has UB disappeared ?
He always had the latest info but I don't see him posting anymore.
Hope he is all well and tending to his yaks.

He is unable to log in, even after few days of ban .... ideas that are uncomfortable/critical/unconventional serve national interest, Admins should do some introspection.

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 20 Mar 2020 13:01

Rail official suspended for hiding son, who returned from Germany and later tested positive for COVID-19, in Bengaluru: Spokesperson.

69-year-old Italian tourist, who had recovered from COVID-19, dies of cardiac arrest in Jaipur private hospital: SMS Hospital official.

Baldev Singh, Who Died Due to COVID-19 in Punjab, Met Hundreds; District Admin Locks Down Village.

Coronavirus: Telangana's Karimnagar under lockdown after 8 Indonesians test positive.

COVID-19: Kalyan man who tested positive attended wedding, came in contact with over 1000 people, says report

The man who had come back from U.S on March 6 attended a wedding in Solapur after travelling by a train.

After coming back from the wedding, the man started showing symptoms of COVID-19 from March 9. His wife and daughter have also tested positive. The man is presently under quarantine and is being treated in Kasturba Hospital in Mumbai.

A letter issued by the KDMC civil health staff head Raju Lavangare has urged authorities to trace all the guests who had attended the wedding at Solapur and also the taxi driver who had ferried the man, HT reported. Ten special teams of five members each have also been formed by the administration to trace all the contacts, District Collector of Solapur Milind Shambhark was quoted as saying by the HT. An exhaustive list will be prepared including all possible contacts and everybody would be tested, he added. So far no person has shown any signs of the virus and operations are still going on.

nam · Post by **nam** » 20 Mar 2020 13:02

ICMR, we now have 206 confirmed cases.

After 200, cases then to spike up, nerf to keep an eye.

nam · Post by **nam** » 20 Mar 2020 13:05

Someone had raised that the antiHiv cocktail, that has given to the jaipur patient, could cause heart failure.

Looks like thats what happened.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 20 Mar 2020 13:39

Gyan wrote:It's odd that there is NO recommended treatment protocols from WHO or China being publically released. With so many patients, they would tried all types of Anti virals & symptomatic medicines, by now.

Let's Hope hot weather will kill off the virus. In India, except North & North East, weather has already turned to hot summers. Unlike Wuhan which has 1-2 months of more mild weather.

In India, another 2 weeks & weather will be hot even in North & NE. By end of March, it will be scorching hot in most of India.

My quotes post is from 27th Feb. In retrospect:-

It seems that WHO was suppressing information about effectiveness of Chloroquine & Azithromycin in treatment of Chinese Virus. Even though they were aware about its effectiveness since mid Feb, they intentionally kept quiet. Nations which started using Quinine early seem to have got pandemic under control and have 1/10th the death rate of Italy, which has only started using quinine since second week of March

WHO seems to be pushing experimental anti virals which are 10,000x the cost of Chloroquine

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 20 Mar 2020 13:46

ricky_v wrote:The study of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin on sars-cov2
https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/ ... I_IJAA.pdf

When comparing the effect of hydroxychloroquine treatment as a single drug and the effect of hydroxychloroquine and azithromyc in combination, the proportion of patients that had negative PCR results in nasopharyngeal samples was significantly different between the two groups at days 3-4-5 and 6 post-inclusion (Table 3). At day6 post-inclusion, 100% of patients treated with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin combination were virologicaly cured comparing with 57.1% in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine only, and 12.5% in the control group (p<0.001). These results are summarized in Figures 1 and 2. Drug effect was significantly higher in patients with symptoms of URTI and LRTI, as compared to asymptomatic patients with p<0.05 (data not show).

sajo · Post by **sajo** » 20 Mar 2020 13:46

I am from Pune. locked myself and the family in for the entire week. Coughing and sneezing a bit, and just measured a mild fever (~99F). The significant other is going bonkers though. No history of meeting any one who has returned from anywhere.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 20 Mar 2020 13:56

world has scrambled for cure / vaccine against Chinese virus :
a gist
-Interferon beta nasal spray for lungs (UK)
- Chloroquin (UK)
- HydroxyChloroquin + Azithromycin (US, Italy)
- Resmedivir (US-encouraging)
- Ritonavir + Lopinavir (Soko, India, Vietnam using it )
- Favipiravir (Japan-very effective)

jpremnath · Post by **jpremnath** » 20 Mar 2020 14:00

nam wrote:ICMR, we now have 206 confirmed cases.

After 200, cases then to spike up, nerf to keep an eye.

It took us 43 days to reach hundred patients and just 5 more to reach 200. Not good...We might be seeing a large spike from here on...

The case of the corona positive women at a satsang with a crowd of 1500 is the latest of irresponsible acts by people who should know better

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/mumbai/ ... 717461.cms

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 20 Mar 2020 14:08

IMHO we all should enable location history tracking in cell asap. If we wish to help slow down wider spread of virus, having clear idea where one has been at what time can help a lot in accurate and timely contact tracing and also for self peace of mind. South Korea managed this best and has flattened the curve through technology assisted tracing. So everyone please start and help fight the spread.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 20 Mar 2020 14:09

madhu wrote:A Trial of Lopinavir–Ritonavir in Adults Hospitalized with Severe Covid-19

METHODS
We conducted a randomized, controlled, open-label trial involving hospitalized adult patients with confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection, which causes the respiratory illness Covid-19, and an oxygen saturation (Sao2) of 94% or less while they were breathing ambient air or a ratio of the partial pressure of oxygen (Pao2) to the fraction of inspired oxygen (Fio2) of less than 300 mm Hg. Patients were randomly assigned in a 1:1 ratio to receive either lopinavir–ritonavir (400 mg and 100 mg, respectively) twice a day for 14 days, in addition to standard care, or standard care alone. The primary end point was the time to clinical improvement, defined as the time from randomization to either an improvement of two points on a seven-category ordinal scale or discharge from the hospital, whichever came first.

RESULTS
A total of 199 patients with laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection underwent randomization; 99 were assigned to the lopinavir–ritonavir group, and 100 to the standard-care group. Treatment with lopinavir–ritonavir was not associated with a difference from standard care in the time to clinical improvement (hazard ratio for clinical improvement, 1.24; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.90 to 1.72). Mortality at 28 days was similar in the lopinavir–ritonavir group and the standard-care group (19.2% vs. 25.0%; difference, −5.8 percentage points; 95% CI, −17.3 to 5.7). The percentages of patients with detectable viral RNA at various time points were similar. In a modified intention-to-treat analysis, lopinavir–ritonavir led to a median time to clinical improvement that was shorter by 1 day than that observed with standard care (hazard ratio, 1.39; 95% CI, 1.00 to 1.91). Gastrointestinal adverse events were more common in the lopinavir–ritonavir group, but serious adverse events were more common in the standard-care group. Lopinavir–ritonavir treatment was stopped early in 13 patients (13.8%) because of adverse events.

CONCLUSIONS
In hospitalized adult patients with severe Covid-19, no benefit was observed with lopinavir–ritonavir treatment beyond standard care. Future trials in patients with severe illness may help to confirm or exclude the possibility of a treatment benefit.
so clearly news about HIV medicin working for COVID19 is not correct.

Anti Virals dont work is serious patients. We also need to understand its effectiveness in Combination with Chloroquine. ALSO speculated in the study:-

Our patient population was heterogeneous with regard to duration and severity of illness at enrollment; accelerated clinical recovery (16.0 days vs. 17.0 days) and reduced mortality (19.0% vs. 27.1%) were observed in a post hoc subgroup of those treated within 12 days after the onset of symptoms, but not in those treated later (Fig. S2A and S2B). The question of whether earlier lopinavir–ritonavir treatment in Covid-19 could have clinical benefit is an important one that requires further study. The finding is consistent with studies showing that patients with SARS-CoV-2 viral pneumonia have progression in the second week of illness1 and with the time-to-treatment effects observed in previous antiviral studies in SARS20 and severe influenza.21-23 In addition, we found that the numbers of lopinavir–ritonavir recipients who had serious complications (acute kidney injury and secondary infections) or requiring noninvasive or invasive mechanical ventilation for respiratory failure were fewer than in those not receiving treatment. These observations are hypothesis-generating and require additional studies to determine whether lopinavir–ritonavir treatment given at a certain stage of illness can reduce some complications in Covid-19.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 20 Mar 2020 14:12

IndraD wrote:world has scrambled for cure / vaccine against Chinese virus :
a gist
-Interferon beta nasal spray for lungs (UK)
- Chloroquin (UK)
- HydroxyChloroquin + Azithromycin (US, Italy)
- Resmedivir (US-encouraging)
- Ritonavir + Lopinavir (Soko, India, Vietnam using it )
- Favipiravir (Japan-very effective)

Quinine + Antibiotics is now practically standard atleast in:-

China, India, Australia, USA, Italy, UK, Thailand

Favipiravir is getting used in China, Japan, Thailand

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 20 Mar 2020 14:14

sajo wrote:I am from Pune. locked myself and the family in for the entire week. Coughing and sneezing a bit, and just measured a mild fever (~99F). The significant other is going bonkers though. No history of meeting any one who has returned from anywhere.

Sneezing may indicate that it's not Coronavirus. Though consultation with Doctor is absolutely must.

nam · Post by **nam** » 20 Mar 2020 14:14

Most of the Indian cases are by well to do, educated people with money to do international travel, ignoring the isolation guideline. Today a report on a bollywood singer, hide herself in airport bathroom to escape virus check, went on to host parties. Now she is positive,

GoI should laid down threat of murder charges for these kind of people. The ones who will be effected the most are daily earners and poor people.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 20 Mar 2020 14:18

https://covidout.in/

Very low death Rate & low number Serious cases among Hospitalized patients show we are doing something effective by almost 5x times. Unless off course it's only demographic benefit.

kit · Post by **kit** » 20 Mar 2020 14:31

Also depends on how much testing we are doing daily !!?!

nam · Post by **nam** » 20 Mar 2020 14:35

The number of infected people does not matter. What matter is how many need hospitalization and how many need ICU.

So our testing has been for people with history of travel and people who have come in contact with them. This means there are 200 confirmed cases, in the group MOST AT RISK and the count of this group is more than 10K.

For community spread, ICMR is monitoring hospital referrals for respiratory patients. In the past 15-16 days, they saw only 850 referrals in the country and all negative.

There is a method to our madness..

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 20 Mar 2020 14:51

Problem I have with the way community spread is being detected is that they seem to be taking samples from people already admitted to hospital with respiratory illness/pneumonia. The test results lag by 14 days because of virus incubation time, by the time community spread is detected we would be two weeks into it. scary for a country like India. More random testing of foreign returned folks who are asymptomatic would be required immediately to catch this faster. In fact everyone who has traveled last month or so and their immediately friends/families should be checked for respiratory illnesses. Tracing is a thankless job.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 20 Mar 2020 14:53

jpremnath wrote:
nam wrote:ICMR, we now have 206 confirmed cases.

After 200, cases then to spike up, nerf to keep an eye.
It took us 43 days to reach hundred patients and just 5 more to reach 200. Not good...We might be seeing a large spike from here on...

The case of the corona positive women at a satsang with a crowd of 1500 is the latest of irresponsible acts by people who should know better

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/mumbai/ ... 717461.cms

I don't know why this hasn't been emphasized to the public and still not being done.

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 20 Mar 2020 14:55

nam wrote:Most of the Indian cases are by well to do, educated people with money to do international travel, ignoring the isolation guideline. Today a report on a bollywood singer, hide herself in airport bathroom to escape virus check, went on to host parties. Now she is positive,

GoI should laid down threat of murder charges for these kind of people. The ones who will be effected the most are daily earners and poor people.

Baby Doll singer Kanika Kapoor tests coronavirus positive. She hid travel history, threw party at 5-star

Singer Kanika Kapoor, best known for her songs Baby Doll and Chittiyaan Kalaiyaan, tested positive for the novel coronavirus on Friday. She has been admitted to the King George's Medical University (KGMU) hospital in Lucknow.

The 41-year-old actress was in London for a while and returned to Lucknow on March 15. She also refrained from informing authorities about her travel history. Upon arriving in Lucknow, Kanika hosted a lavish party for her friends and family at a five-star hotel.

Bureaucrats, politicians and socialites attended the party as per reports. The singer stayed in a sprawling apartment in Lucknow. Medical officials are now unsure of the method that should be observed to quarantine the entire building where the singer stayed and also subject the guests at the party to tests, news agency IANS reports.

syam · Post by **syam** » 20 Mar 2020 15:01

I think it is no use to worry about the escaped cases. they already escaped and infected hundreds. Some are innocent with no knowledge like that sathsang granny.

Let's move on to next phase. Let's stay at home and be careful. may maa kali save us from this calamity.

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 20 Mar 2020 15:07

CM Uddhav Thackeray announces that from this Midnight, all workplaces will remain closed till 31st March.
This is applicable in Mumbai, MMR Region, Pune, Pimpri Chinchwad and Nagpur.
Govt offices to operate at 25% attendance.

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 20 Mar 2020 15:10

Countries with largest PERCENTAGE increase in cases
2020-03-20

Turkey │359 +168 (88%)
Ecuador │260 +92 (54.8%)
Ireland │557 +191 (52.2%)
United States │14340 +4876 (51.5%)
Peru │234 +79 (51%)
Chile │342 +104 (43.7%)

nam · Post by **nam** » 20 Mar 2020 15:28

pgbhat wrote:Problem I have with the way community spread is being detected is that they seem to be taking samples from people already admitted to hospital with respiratory illness/pneumonia. The test results lag by 14 days because of virus incubation time, by the time community spread is detected we would be two weeks into it. scary for a country like India. More random testing of foreign returned folks who are asymptomatic would be required immediately to catch this faster. In fact everyone who has traveled last month or so and their immediately friends/families should be checked for respiratory illnesses. Tracing is a thankless job.

The sample taken are from referrals between March 1 & March 15. They are checking to see if these patients are positive. This will tell us if these patients are a result of community spread and which region they belong to. All negative. So whatever referrals are made till March 15 are not due to corona.

The basis of this logic is that serious cases, will get hospitalized with respiratory issues. Non serious cases may be there in the community, but you cannot do much with them other than asking them to stay home.

Obejctive is to prevention of hospitalization.

It will be done on a regular basis.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 20 Mar 2020 16:16

sooraj wrote:
nam wrote:Most of the Indian cases are by well to do, educated people with money to do international travel, ignoring the isolation guideline. Today a report on a bollywood singer, hide herself in airport bathroom to escape virus check, went on to host parties. Now she is positive,

GoI should laid down threat of murder charges for these kind of people. The ones who will be effected the most are daily earners and poor people.
Baby Doll singer Kanika Kapoor tests coronavirus positive. She hid travel history, threw party at 5-star

Singer Kanika Kapoor, best known for her songs Baby Doll and Chittiyaan Kalaiyaan, tested positive for the novel coronavirus on Friday. She has been admitted to the King George's Medical University (KGMU) hospital in Lucknow.

The 41-year-old actress was in London for a while and returned to Lucknow on March 15. She also refrained from informing authorities about her travel history. Upon arriving in Lucknow, Kanika hosted a lavish party for her friends and family at a five-star hotel.

Bureaucrats, politicians and socialites attended the party as per reports. The singer stayed in a sprawling apartment in Lucknow. Medical officials are now unsure of the method that should be observed to quarantine the entire building where the singer stayed and also subject the guests at the party to tests, news agency IANS reports.

This is seriously messed up. Looks like BJP MPs, MLAs, BSP MLAs, bureaucrats etc were at those 3 parties. An estimated 600 families

came into contact with her at those 3 parties. We could be looking at a situation where a significant proportion of the parliament and UP assembly could be infected.

We maybe in Stage 3 already, thanks to reckless behavior by well to do people, and laissez-faire attitude from the government when it comes to strictly quarantining people and punishing those who don't comply. Israel enforced mandatory quarantine for every incoming traveler over 2-3 weeks ago.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Mar 2020 16:26

I am sorry to say this but GOI's laissez faire towards a stupid and selfish population and not invoking harsh penalties + the ICMR's insistence that only folks who have direct contact with foreign travelers need be tested have set us up for a very high risk situation.

People are breaking the quarantine with zero qualms or fear of penalties. Again and again, we hear the same story, with zero reports of penalties being imposed.

Folks with symptoms are being turned away by Govt setups w/o any recourse to testing in pvt setups either, because they don't meet "strict criteria" which in other countries was relaxed. Pvt setups are not yet cleared nor have they been given assistance on a war-footing, couldn't a few IAF C-17s have been retasked to bring kits from abroad if as GOI guys tell us, the air travel part has delayed receipt?

An important point raised is that if things are really so bad, why aren't our hospitals full already. Critics are pointing out that the situation was likewise in Wuhan till early December, after which things took a drastic turn for the worse in 2-3 weeks. I hope they are wrong.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 20 Mar 2020 16:27

People who violate quarantine after coming from abroad should have their passports cancelled, and those who are well-to-do and responsible for such messes should be made to pay for the cleanup.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 20 Mar 2020 16:29

A few posts ago were you not complimenting the govt for effective action, and now laissez-affaire? Enforcing quarantine is difficult if people behave like the proverbial Rajinkant. We need guards so no one escapes. Is it possible to have police guards at all facilities? Probably not. Also quarantine facilities are pretty bad (once saw an isolation ward in an army hospital from the outside, and army maintains its facilities).

Stamping hand or better yet the cheek/face so visible to all public may be the only option. If they get out, they'll be lynched- now that will be effective.
When people like Kanika Kapoor hide stuff, I don't know what can be done. The only silver lining is that all country know by now, and that even MLAs are not immune. This issue is far more serious than 'paying for cleanup. 'Murder charges' is more like it.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Mar 2020 16:31

Bart S wrote:People who violate quarantine after coming from abroad should have their passports cancelled, and those who are well-to-do and responsible for such messes should be made to pay for the cleanup.

Completely. You can't jail these A-holes because they will infect the cops as well, but at least penalize them.

They are breaking the mandatory 14 day quarantine, roaming around, attending massive functions. There needs to be a severe cash and other penalty.

I was thinking Deans was being harsh, but he was right - these people are completely reckless, shameless and out-of-control.

And the entire "test" from a high risk place setup was broken to begin with. If you have a Schengen visa you can roam around Europe. So while our folks were scrutinizing only "high risk countries" mentioned in PP and the forms, who knows how many of these crooked idiots actually traveled around the countries in question and then took a flight out of another place entirely.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 20 Mar 2020 16:32

SriKumar wrote:A few posts ago were you not complimenting the govt for effective action, and now laissez-affaire? Enforcing quarantine is difficult if people behave like the proverbial Rajinkant. We need guards so no one escapes. Is it possible to have police guards at all facilities? Probably not. Also quarantine facilities are pretty bad (once saw an isolation ward in an army hospital from the outside, and army maintains its facilities).

Stamping hand or better yet the cheek/face so visible to all public may be the only option. If they get out, they'll be lynched- now that will be effective.
When people like Kanika Kapoor hide stuff, I don't know what can be done. The only silver lining is that all country know by now, and that even MLAs are not immune.

Where are the penalties for violating quarantine? Fear of punishment, naming and shaming is essential especially with a populace that is not as disciplined as east asian countries.

Sad to say that a lot of his own party and officials are totally ignoring both the letter and spirit of Modiji's speech.

The UP health minister was at that Kanika Kapoor party! Even if he didn't know about Kanika Kapoor being reckless, what business does he have attending parties at such a time? This seems to be the attitude of most of the urban elite. People were mocking the US and that spring break idiot in the video from Florida, but much the same attitude prevails here.

And this is from MP, scenes about an hour or so ago:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETi5ySWUwAA ... ame=medium

BJP party workers thronging together, nobody from senior/local leadership stopping or dispersing them, despite Modiji's speech, and the state being under Sec 144 lockdown!

When people like Kanika Kapoor hide stuff, I don't know what can be done. The only silver lining is that all country know by now, and that even MLAs are not immune. This issue is far more serious than 'paying for cleanup. 'Murder charges' is more like it.

Name and shame, press criminal charges, make them pay for the cleanup, and cancel their passports. Govt should have fast tracked legislation in parliament to do this by now, if measures like that didn't already exist. Instead what will happen is that bollywood colleagues and PR agencies will paper over her misdeeds, and she will go scot free, after treatment in a 5* facility while poorer countrymen (who were completely innocent) will lose their lives or starve or be driven deeper into poverty as the economy tanks. We may already be in Stage 3.

kit · Post by **kit** » 20 Mar 2020 16:37

Karan M wrote:I am sorry to say this but GOI's laissez faire towards a stupid and selfish population and not invoking harsh penalties + the ICMR's insistence that only folks who have direct contact with foreign travelers need be tested have set us up for a very high risk situation.

People are breaking the quarantine with zero qualms or fear of penalties. Again and again, we hear the same story, with zero reports of penalties being imposed.

Folks with symptoms are being turned away by Govt setups w/o any recourse to testing in pvt setups either, because they don't meet "strict criteria" which in other countries was relaxed. Pvt setups are not yet cleared nor have they been given assistance on a war-footing, couldn't a few IAF C-17s have been retasked to bring kits from abroad if as GOI guys tell us, the air travel part has delayed receipt?

An important point raised is that if things are really so bad, why aren't our hospitals full already. Critics are pointing out that the situation was likewise in Wuhan till early December, after which things took a drastic turn for the worse in 2-3 weeks. I hope they are wrong.

I was just talking to someone who is in isolation after testing positive in spain, the guys were thinking nothing will happen like in nearby Italy and everyone was going doing their usual "business" in shops gyms public transport etc , now almost everyone he knows has tested positive, scary !!.. Forewarned is forearmed, India needs stricter measures maybe even enact an emergency if required before it is too late ., people cannot be running around or escape at will if tested positive !!

kit · Post by **kit** » 20 Mar 2020 16:38

Bart S wrote:
SriKumar wrote: And this is from MP, scenes about an hour or so ago:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETi5ySWUwAA ... ame=medium

BJP party workers thronging together, nobody from senior/local leadership stopping or dispersing them, despite Modiji's speech, and the state being under Sec 144 lockdown!

WTH !!??!!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Mar 2020 16:39

SriKumar wrote:A few posts ago were you not complimenting the govt for effective action, and now laissez-affaire? Enforcing quarantine is difficult if people behave like the proverbial Rajinkant. We need guards so no one escapes. Is it possible to have police guards at all facilities? Probably not. Also quarantine facilities are pretty bad (once saw an isolation ward in an army hospital from the outside, and army maintains its facilities).

I changed my opinion based on available information and the emerging situation. Its important to not get sucked into some blind one-sided view of any situation if mistakes are being made. Yogi in UP invoked the law. Maha and several other states are committing misstep after misstep, the GOI is also not able to step in. Do you wish us to keep quiet?

Enforcing quarantine is possible if you take a bond from them or have sufficient information and make it clear that if they misbehave or disappear they will pay from their own pocket and lose their passport. I don't know what quarantine facilities you are expecting but the Army one's are top-notch. The state police ones are so-so but Delhi, Mumbai have the option to stay in a hotel too.

The only really lousy ones were at the state level, and GOI has released a circular on the matter (late, and one may well ask as to why they didn't have pics of the facilities shared a long time back).

I have noted this before - a lot of the stuff released from GOI is often very high level and hence liable to half interested implementation. You need domain experts and detailed roadmaps, instructions and circulars with huge input from domain experts etc so the folks implementing the instructions literally are spoonfed with what to do. Not some high level circular in archaic passive English.

Stamping hand or better yet the cheek/face so visible to all public may be the only option. If they get out, they'll be lynched- now that will be effective.

They should be stamping everyone. This lynching stuff is mostly hyperbole so far, as multiple folks breaking quarantine have been caught and handed over to the authorities based on the stamps. I doubt anyone sane would want to get too close to somebody infective. In rural areas, some folks have been attacked based on coughing etc, but the stamps are proving to be effective.

When people like Kanika Kapoor hide stuff, I don't know what can be done. The only silver lining is that all country know by now, and that even MLAs are not immune.

You have to put severe $$/Rs penalties. If you break quarantine or are dishonest about it, penalty dependent on the individual in question plus Passport withdrawn. Plus a case filed on them.

Time for half measures is gone.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 20 Mar 2020 16:40

Bart S wrote:People who violate quarantine after coming from abroad should have their passports cancelled, and those who are well-to-do and responsible for such messes should be made to pay for the cleanup.

Putting a stamp on the hand or cheek if they get out so all will know. Public release of names and faces. Financial punishments and travel restrictions are post-facto. Getting out is tantamount to attempted murder, in this situation.

What mystifies me is that these quarantine breakers first and foremost will infect their own family members that they go back to. Don't they know?