Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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Bart S
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Bart S » 09 Apr 2020 05:55

https://www.thekashmirmonitor.net/keran ... lid-visas/

This is really shocking. It looks like 2 of the infiltrators due to whom we lost 5 precious lives may have been 'students' who went to Pakistan on study visas in 2017. Why are we still allowing this? Same for Turkey and Iran where they only get radicalized and come back and spread COVID.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ks_sachin » 09 Apr 2020 06:54

tandav wrote:What was the Order of Battle

1) ~10 man terror troop killed the 5man SF team and remnants managed to escape.

2) ~10man SF team was deployed and ran into 5 man terror team with 5 losses on both sides?

This looks real bad that our team did not have overwhelming situational awareness advantage over the terrorists



Gen B S Raju =
"Upfront I must compliment my men who have completed this operation despite extremely challenging terrain and weather conditions. The infiltration happened in the early hours of April 1. This particular bid was detected by the battalion deployed along the LOC,” he said.

“Braving extremely challenging conditions, the troops were able to make contact with militants at approximately 1300 hours. In the brief firefight, militants abandoned their heavy loads and rolled down the deep gorge. By late evening the formation was successful in isolating the militants. Over the next two days, formations conducted multiple helicopter and UAV sorties to get situational awareness. They also used this time to isolate the militants both from east and west”, he said

Lieutenant General Raju said Special Forces were dropped in the vicinity by helicopters. “The special forces were approaching the target while traversing extremely challenging terrain in high snow level on extremely steep slopes,” he said."

Gives you some insight into how ops are planned.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Sbhalla » 09 Apr 2020 07:34

========= user id changed as per norm=========

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Mollick.R » 10 Apr 2020 01:09

Colonel Navjot Singh Bal. Ex Commanding Officer of the Army’s elite 2 Para (Special Forces) passed away thursday morning in Bengaluru. He lost the battle with Cancer.

Colonel Bal was decorated with a Shaurya Chakra in 2008 for a 2007 anti-terror operation in Kashmir’s Lolab valley, an encounter in which two terrorists were killed by the officer and his buddy soldier.

More detail here..........

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/04/an-indian-special-forces-heros-final-selfie.html?fbclid=IwAR1A0R2VggbZTu4Jk1YYA7qRywNVGrgq3V6sgHaBUeJ-nZZOYke4rqrpy0A


Om Shanti for the great son of mother India.

May Bajrangbali give his family strength to withstand this loss.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gyan » 10 Apr 2020 01:37

I think everyone at BRF should appreciate that no one is criticizing the brave soldiers even in our dreams. Lots of us are wondering whether we could have given them some better equipment which would have worked better and what are the lessons at large to be learnt & adopted for future actions.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Sanju » 10 Apr 2020 10:32

When an uninformed person ventures an opinion on a highly emotive matter, then be prepared to receive the flak. One can ask question(s) for clarifications, when one questions the actions, then all bets are off.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Karan M » 10 Apr 2020 11:30

ks_sachin wrote:
tandav wrote:What was the Order of Battle

1) ~10 man terror troop killed the 5man SF team and remnants managed to escape.

2) ~10man SF team was deployed and ran into 5 man terror team with 5 losses on both sides?

This looks real bad that our team did not have overwhelming situational awareness advantage over the terrorists



Gen B S Raju =
"Upfront I must compliment my men who have completed this operation despite extremely challenging terrain and weather conditions. The infiltration happened in the early hours of April 1. This particular bid was detected by the battalion deployed along the LOC,” he said.

“Braving extremely challenging conditions, the troops were able to make contact with militants at approximately 1300 hours. In the brief firefight, militants abandoned their heavy loads and rolled down the deep gorge. By late evening the formation was successful in isolating the militants. Over the next two days, formations conducted multiple helicopter and UAV sorties to get situational awareness. They also used this time to isolate the militants both from east and west”, he said

Lieutenant General Raju said Special Forces were dropped in the vicinity by helicopters. “The special forces were approaching the target while traversing extremely challenging terrain in high snow level on extremely steep slopes,” he said."

Gives you some insight into how ops are planned.


I think more and more a case can be made for persistent surveillance by armed UAVs like the Heron class so that they can target these infiltrators whenever possible. Only and only if these efforts fail, should we send SF troops in harms way.

Yes, there will be times when the infiltrators will be "safe" because of tree, terrain cover. But they will be exposed in between and they should be struck then. That too will reduce their combat capability. If say a Hellfire or Nag had hit these guys before they ran into cover, would they have been able to take down all 5 SF troops.

We have severely under-invested in technology and are too used to exposing our valuable troops to danger without giving them every edge possible.

The FOPEN radar program for instance - where is it, what is the progress, we dont know. That would allow us to track some targets even if they used foliage for protection.

In this case, we could have maintained a better track of these targets, and likely hit them once or twice before they got to hiding below that cornice if we had say 24/7 surveillance of that entire area with a MALE/HALE UAV with weapons onboard.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya_V » 10 Apr 2020 12:08

We also need to invest in large no. of domestically produced UAV, especially some High altitude ones, in addition to Anti artillery and anti heliocpter/Paki Army aviation radars which can look across the LOC and identify Paki posts, Ammo depos, Fuel depos Truck movements, Jeep with ATGM movements,Bridges, Motor locations, Launchpads, Helicopters, Paki Army aviation etc where Jihadis stay- we should regularly target these with Motors, Artillery, the ODD ATGM etc. Reduce PA infrastructure close to the LOC to shambles, so the rats must feel the heat well before they are reaching the LOC and die there in numbers. For example, the Neelum Valley road can cut off from Muzafarrabad.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby shaun » 10 Apr 2020 12:11

the last thing i heard, Doval gave clearance for this
https://elbitsystems.com/media/FPR-10.pdf

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby SBajwa » 10 Apr 2020 19:04

Paratrooper Martyr Shri Sanjeev Kumar ji


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gyan » 10 Apr 2020 19:58

If I remember correctly, many years ago one team of our SF was ambushed by terrorists when they are were heli inserted. Leading to lot of casualties. Somewhere around 2007-9. That led to re look at lot of tactics.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gagan » 10 Apr 2020 23:23

Wonder if a Rudra's FLIR could have located the terrorists?
Specially if there was so much snow around.
A few rockets would have taken care of this.

But it is what it is. A lot much fun to take out rats in person.
And there was an accident, and they finished the job!
But imagine the bravery of the two, who jumped right in once they saw their buddies injured and taking fire!
Sheer bravery !!! I am lost for words...

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rakesh » 14 Apr 2020 22:59

RIP Colonel NS Bal - 09 Apr 20
https://medium.com/@majorbharatcingired ... d67a11f69b
09 April 2020

by Major Bharat Cingireddy (Retd) is from the Parachute Regiment (Special Forces). He writes on India's strategic and national interests.

Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Shameek » 14 Apr 2020 23:37

^ Beautiful words. Om Shanti!

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ks_sachin » 15 Apr 2020 17:04

Rakesh wrote:RIP Colonel NS Bal - 09 Apr 20
https://medium.com/@majorbharatcingired ... d67a11f69b
09 April 2020

by Major Bharat Cingireddy (Retd) is from the Parachute Regiment (Special Forces). He writes on India's strategic and national interests.

I heard of some other exploits of the late Col Bal. What a legend.

Incidentally which Regt does 2 Para trace its lineage to?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby pushkar.bhat » 15 Apr 2020 21:23

ks_sachin wrote:I heard of some other exploits of the late Col Bal. What a legend.

Incidentally which regt do 2 para trace lineage to?

Maratha Light Infantry (MLI)

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ks_sachin » 15 Apr 2020 23:36

pushkar.bhat wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:I heard of some other exploits of the late Col Bal. What a legend.

Incidentally which regt do 2 para trace lineage to?

Maratha Light Infantry (MLI)

But which bn.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ks_sachin » 15 Apr 2020 23:40

And why?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby nachiket » 16 Apr 2020 00:49

ks_sachin wrote:
pushkar.bhat wrote:Maratha Light Infantry (MLI)

But which bn.

3rd Battalion

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ParGha » 16 Apr 2020 07:19

ks_sachin wrote:And why?


Because the second senior-most parachute battalion in 1947, 2 Madras (Para), reverted to regular infantry role. 3 MLI (Para), 3 Rajput (Para), 6 RajRif (Para) and 1 Kumaon (Para) were next in order of seniority.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ks_sachin » 16 Apr 2020 21:17

ParGha wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:And why?


Because the second senior-most parachute battalion in 1947, 2 Madras (Para), reverted to regular infantry role. 3 MLI (Para), 3 Rajput (Para), 6 RajRif (Para) and 1 Kumaon (Para) were next in order of seniority.


Correct.

3 MLI (erstwhile 110th Mahratta Light Infantry) was not a para battalion at the time of the raising of the 50th Brigade. They converted to that role after coming back from Italy. Volunteers were called for to para conversion which happened in Chaklala before partition.

Not all wanted to convert to para role and hence volunteers were asked from other MLI bns including from17th and one other MLI bn that had returned from Op Zipper and were slated for disbanding.

3MLI became 2 Para (MLI) and it is nice to have them close by.

Grandfather served in 3MLI (Para).

ParGha

2 MAdras (Para") - were they part of 77 Brigade?

What became of the 1st and 4th bns of the Indian Parachute Regiment in 1945?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby pushkar.bhat » 17 Apr 2020 17:38

151 Battalion comprised of British Troops and went to Britan. It seems the 154th was still being trained when the war ended. I understand it got disbanded

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby MeshaVishwas » 25 Apr 2020 01:18


Strongly agree with the views expressed.
AFSOD under Maj Gen Dhingra will have to become another arm of the MoD imo.Will do a world of good in the coming decades.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sajaym » 19 May 2020 11:04



I was very happy to see this video in one of my WhatsApp groups today. I have always advocated that Bollywood too should bring out more war movies based on the armed forces, just like Hollywood. '12 Strong' is one of the latest examples.

But while making movies maybe expensive and time consuming, live-action cartoons like these will do the trick just as well in keeping alive the memories of our brave Martyrs. Just like there's a saying 'Never leave a man behind', there should also be another one... 'Never leave a Martyr's memory behind'.

If any of the members of BRF have such skills, please try to make such cartoons and have a special thread for the same. More than the others, BRF should take the lead in remembering the fallen heroes since we discuss it more than the others. Here's hoping for more such videos. JAI HIND!

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 10 Jun 2020 22:14

https://theprint.in/defence/army-plans- ... es/438995/

Army plans to expand roles for elite special and airborne forces known for surgical strikes
Army has proposed to change the way volunteers are selected and trained for special forces under Parachute Regiment, wants a maximum of 500 personnel trained in every course.
extracts
Top defence sources said it is being proposed that there should be a centralised training-based selection process of volunteers at the Special Forces Training School (SFTS) at Nahan in Himachal Pradesh. The school may also shift to Bakloh in the same state.

from the article
What is the new proposal?
The Army has proposed that volunteers for the special forces and the Parachute Regiment be given a two-month notice before the selection process begins, after which a week-long preparatory phase of orientation will take place.

Once the orientation is done, the first phase of training will include a four-week selection and screening process at Special Forces Training School.

After screening, they will be allotted to Parachute or special forces battalions through a board of officers.

Once allotted a battalion, volunteers will undergo phase 2 of probation — three months of training in basic skills. This will be different for special forces and airborne volunteers.

Subsequently, the selected group will go through a third level of training, which will include four weeks of the para basic course at the Parachute Training School in Agra.

The proposal says four courses can be held throughout the year — in March, June, September and December — with a maximum of 500 volunteers per course

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 02 Jul 2020 19:59

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/g ... vIXqmkj7C4

How 'Ghatak' commandos dominate the hand-to-hand combat


extracts
In spite of the reports of the Chinese army deploying professional mixed martial arts (MMA) fighters to train its troops after Galwan Valley skirmish, the training of the 'Ghatak' commandos still dominate them. India Today TV spent a day with the instructors who train the 'Ghatak' commandos and various armed forces.

"The MMA and other oriental martial arts like Kung Fu, Karate, Taekwon-do and others are a form of sports and the practitioners are largely trained in dealing with a single attacker under certain rules that works under predictable environment, but the training that we are undergoing is indigenous and it is adopted from the world's finest hand-to-hand combat techniques from USA, Israel, Spain, Germany, Indonesia and others. Our training's motive is to decimate multiple attackers," Ajay Rampal, former Major in the Indian Army and a retired commandant of the border security force (BSF) who has served in the Kashmir valley and executed a number of counter-terrorism operations, said.

The training of the 'Ghatak' commandos and other armed forces are based on a module that is a result of nearly a decade long research by the Sports Physical Education Fitness and Leisure- Skill Council (SPEFL-SC), a wing of the National Skill Development Council of India (NSDC), a flagship programme of Prime Minister Narendra Modi.


Tahsin Zahid, Chief Operating Officer (COO), SPEFL-SC, says the idea of hand-to-hand 'indigenous' combat training for the armed forces and civilians was a result of nearly a decade long research.

"This training is made in India. We are not relying on the instructor from other foreign countries as we have world-class instructors. We have a rich legacy of hand-to-hand combat in our country and India is the birth birthplace of all the southeast Asian martial arts. We have improvised by including the world's best close quarter combat techniques to accommodate the modern threat perceptions. So now we have a system of our own. This training empowers the jawans to deal with multiple attackers unlike any oriental martial art," said Zahid.

According to the instructors who train the commandos, an average training session burns about 800 calories. The training's first part starts with cardiovascular workouts to keep the jawans ready for the climate.

"No, we are not undergoing any sports training like MMA, Shaolin Kung-Fu, Karate and all. We are training the soldiers to deal with real-life situations in real life terrains. Unlike the rules of oriental martial arts, we have created a technique which is based on Krav Maga, Silat, Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and others that empowers the jawans to deal with multiple attackers while carrying their combat gear," said Gaurav Jain, chief instructor, SPEFL-Strike, who has trained the Ghatak teams.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby srai » 02 Jul 2020 22:44

^^^

SPEFL STRIKE DECIMATE PROGRAM - FOR ARMED FORCES, LAW ENFORCEMENT, SECURITY AGENCY & UNITS AND TACTICAL UNITS
...

TEAM SPEFL STRIKE is proud to have conducted successful courses for Ghatak Commando troops in Unarmed Combat (Based on Krav Maga, Kali, Silat, Wingchun).

...

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby wig » 17 Jul 2020 19:38

https://theprint.in/defence/photo-from- ... ys/462968/

Photo from Rajnath Ladakh trip reveals two ‘secret’ special forces buys

sniper rifles
The photograph shows the .338 SAKO sniper rifle. Made in Finland, it is considered to be one of the best snipers in the world. Sources told ThePrint that around 40-50 of the long-range sniper rifles were procured last year.

It is a manually-operated, bolt-action weapon. This sniper rifle is available in two versions — chambered for .300 Winchester Magnum (7.62×67 mm) and for .338 Lapua Magnum (8.6×70 mm) cartridges — and has a kill range of 1,500 metres.

This acquisition was in tandem with the purchase of two other sniper rifles by the Army last year — the Italian-made Beretta .338 Lapua Magnum Scorpio TGT and the American .50 Calibre M95 manufactured by Barrett.

and, helmets
The helmet is the American-made Exfil High Cut Ballistic Helmet, which features a hybrid composite shell for increased strength with a unique geometry for optimal fit.

Sources said these helmets were also acquired in limited numbers for specialised units. The Army last month also began the process to acquire one lakh ‘AK-47 protected’ helmets — one of the largest procurements of these specialised ballistic helmets in the world.

According to the specifications laid down by the Army, the helmet should offer protection against the AK-47 7.62×39 mm Mild Steel Core and Hard Steel Core bullets from 10 metres

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rs_singh » 17 Jul 2020 19:47

Wig,

I am not sure what you mean by SAKO. The rifle Is the lapua. we have had them for a while.

I missed the posts on hand to hand combat. Classic poor Indian journalism by really bad "journalists". I would encourage people to look up LINE. h2h combat with vest, helmet, rifle, handgun is very very different from your traditional martial arts. You can't simply learn say aikido, and then hope to apply the same in combat load against an adversary. it just doesn't work.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Shameek » 18 Jul 2020 00:37

^^ SAKO is the Finnish company that makes the gun in the picture.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby sohamn » 18 Jul 2020 00:39

Rs_singh wrote:Wig,

I am not sure what you mean by SAKO. The rifle Is the lapua. we have had them for a while.

I missed the posts on hand to hand combat. Classic poor Indian journalism by really bad "journalists". I would encourage people to look up LINE. h2h combat with vest, helmet, rifle, handgun is very very different from your traditional martial arts. You can't simply learn say aikido, and then hope to apply the same in combat load against an adversary. it just doesn't work.



Lapua is a cartridge, not a gun.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rs_singh » 18 Jul 2020 00:42

Incorrect.lapua is a class of rifles firing the Lapua magnum which is the cartridge. In common parlance, you’d say get me the lapua to indicate you want the rifle. Similar to saying “need a 9mm”.

Wiki won’t teach you everything :wink:

Shameek, thanks!

Pretty sure the rifle is MRAD. I’ve never heard of sako.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Roop » 18 Jul 2020 12:52

Rs_singh wrote:I’ve never heard of sako.


https://www.sako.fi/

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rs_singh » 18 Jul 2020 12:54

Good shit! Thanks roop! Deer hunTing season is near.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby M_Joshi » 18 Jul 2020 17:25

Image

Badge on the left forearm looks like skeleton hand giving a middle finger.
Can anyone ID the unit?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby MeshaVishwas » 18 Jul 2020 18:31

M_Joshi wrote:Image

Badge on the left forearm looks like skeleton hand giving a middle finger.
Can anyone ID the unit?

:lol:
It is from a Airsoft player from the Instagram generation of morons(the name is on the "vest" and bottom left)
But the images are drool worthy
Image

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Mandeepsajwan » 13 Sep 2020 14:53

--- irrelevant link ---

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Thakur_B » 13 Sep 2020 15:03

MeshaVishwas wrote: :lol:
It is from a Airsoft player from the Instagram generation of morons(the name is on the "vest" and bottom left)
But the images are drool worthy


The Ak-12 should have been a give away. That is one of the few AK variants that we do no operate :rotfl:. This belongs in BRF bloopers thread. I propose a BRF bloopers thread to archive posts like these :rotfl:

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Hiten » 15 Sep 2020 23:05

IAF ordering 3000 high-capacity Drum Mags for the TAR variants Garuds use

https://www.spansen.com/2020/09/iaf-gar ... rifle.html

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ks_sachin » 16 Sep 2020 06:39

Hiten wrote:IAF ordering 3000 high-capacity Drum Mags for the TAR variants Garuds use

https://www.spansen.com/2020/09/iaf-gar ... rifle.html


What a terrible idea......


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