---Ambar wrote:To those familiar with the region how bad is the situation in Vizag ? I truly hope its nowhere near as bad as Bhopal gas tragedy. Whatsapp is a true scourge of our times that spreads so much negativity through gory images of every tragedy.
Now that the courts are not toleraing his pet peeves, Prashant Bushan has now decided to use the only tool available at his hands. Twitter and the main stream media. Universal Basic Income implemented by Congress will just ensure that the money for the migrant poor would all be in the pockets of local Congress leaders. And that money would become the way to 'ask' for their votes. Using the Jan Dhan accounts etc a lot of poorer part of the society have already been given subsistance allowances. Congress and its fans seems to be still believing in doling out free money, and using that to garner voters. The same attitude - of give us free money, and don't ask for accounts is seen in socialist heavens (!?) like Kerala as well.chetak wrote:Prashant Bushan wrote:Imagine how much....
Kerala had some advantages even before she became a state in 1956. The two princely states; Travancore & Cochin had very far sighted rulers who did many things to improve the living standards. The governments (commie & congress) could leverage this and then run for higher goals. In Kerala, people from Northern part of the state still complain of poorer facilities. This area was just the "Malabar District" (one among many) of Madras state, and from Chennai it was a very distant land. It is from this area that even during COVID-19 lot of people had to go to neighbouring Mangalore for treatment etc.mukkan wrote:Kerala which has reduced infant mortality gets bigger score from 80s.
May be off topic to this thread; but we also need to see how states which had higher HDI would be able to sustain it for more years to come. For example; KL talks about 100% literacy. Now this was achieved in 1992-1993. Today it is 2020, 27 years. So there is no point in gloating about what happened 27 years back without now checking what are the tangible benefits which the 100% literacy actually brought into the state as well. From the limited sample size of Keralites I interact with; many of them are already in a complacent mode - we are the greatest! - and rely on HDI and 100% literacy to justify themselves.Suraj wrote:HDI is a worthwhile metric to track, for all its imperfections
Now, once again I want to ask - Please stop thinking about “if Kerala is so good, why (insert)”, or Keralites arguing the opposite . It seems the original post was completely worthless because no one has the sense to think of what the significant change in HDI nationwide does for the country . Therefore I’ll be deleting that post and all responses soon. It’s clear posters have no interest in anything other that focus on their pet ideas about one state .Sachin wrote: May be off topic to this thread; but we also need to see how states which had higher HDI would be able to sustain it for more years to come. For example; KL talks about 100% literacy. Now this was achieved in 1992-1993. Today it is 2020, 27 years. So there is no point in gloating about what happened 27 years back without now checking what are the tangible benefits which the 100% literacy actually brought into the state as well. From the limited sample size of Keralites I interact with; many of them are already in a complacent mode - we are the greatest! - and rely on HDI and 100% literacy to justify themselves.
Maharashtra: Goods Train Runs Over Migrant Workers In Aurangabad; 15 Dead
Indian railway tracks (Kashyap Matani/Pexels)
In a tragic incident at least 15 migrant workers, who were sleeping on the railway tracks, were run over by a goods train between Maharashtra's Jalna and Aurangabad, officials said on Friday (8 May).
A senior railway official confirmed that 15 migrant labourers were run over by a goods train between Jalna and Aurangabad of Nanded Divison of South Central Railway.
PM Narendra Modi has shared a tweet saying that he is extremely anguished to hear about the incident.
I can understand the plight of the migrant labour. And being in a comfortable position (when compared to them) I have no locus standi to preach to them and ask them to stay put up at one place. But it takes a very high level of stupidity to actually walk on a railway track, and then decide to sleep on the tracks. This is lack of common sense, and no way connected to a person's poverty, education or current bad situation. Don't know how a Congress rule would have brought in more common sense.sajo wrote:15 Workers "sleeping" on the tracks get run over by a goods train.
This story doesn't make sense. To sleep on the track means, to sleep on the ballast. Assuming these are concrete bed rails, the sleeping posture would have been extremely uncomfortable with a part of the body on the rail and the rest of the body hanging loose from it.Sachin wrote:I can understand the plight of the migrant labour. And being in a comfortable position (when compared to them) I have no locus standi to preach to them and ask them to stay put up at one place. But it takes a very high level of stupidity to actually walk on a railway track, and then decide to sleep on the tracks. This is lack of common sense, and no way connected to a person's poverty, education or current bad situation. Don't know how a Congress rule would have brought in more common sense.sajo wrote:15 Workers "sleeping" on the tracks get run over by a goods train.
The story said they were avoiding the roads because the police would stop them. That means they were walking on the rails or alonside it through the day. Can't imagine that not a single train passed them by in either direction throughout the day for them to think that there was no risk to sleeping on the rails.Aditya_V wrote:But I resent labelling everyone from Kerala which tends to happen- social stereotyping is also wrong. With regards to sleeping of the rails- my suspicion is that the migrants would have probably thought since no trains came they would be safer from snakes, scorpions, wild animals etc and they would wake up if a train is coming, I suspect they all just went into deep sleep due to tiredness and the Loco pilot not expecting people to be sleeping on the tracks would not have horned and by the time he picked them up in the headlight it would have been way too late to brake.
Tragedy, first yesterday restarting all chemical plants yesterday and to day this, these are bad times.
Sirjihanumadu wrote:I can't imagine how the rails are even comfortable to sleep with the narrow concrete sleepers, the sharp stone ballast and the rails themselves. There are trees near the tracks and it would be most natural to sleep under them.
Further explaining the same, he said, “The disease is dangerous for a few categories of people. It is dangerous for old people, for those who have diabetes, hypertension etc. But other than that, it is not a dangerous disease. So we have to make a psychological change in the mind of the people. Currently, people are very scared. The government, if it wants to open up, will have to turn this fear into a sense of confidenceAditya_V wrote:Rahul Uvacha- seriously
In Mar 20
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s?from=mdr
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... s-6399757/
The man is off his balance
Suraj wrote:No, it’s a problem . Petty and parochial resentment, and rhetoric prevents the forum from developing the necessary unemotional abstract throught needed to consider what happens to national politics when the vast majority of the population aren’t on the margins of destitution . They may be cash and asset poor still, but rapidly have gained access to things like formal banking, near universal toilet access, a massive basic healthcare program, power to all villages, road connectivity and if it goes to plan - universal clean water access. .
While the effect of each of these on the HDI number itself may wary, it’s a significant evolution that UP today is on the same level as AP in the early 2010s. Given such conditions, ‘rice bag politics’ becomes less and less effective - it works to a limited state level extent now, but only gets them a wear coalition government that’s easily toppled. It’s already shown in two GEs that an aspirational leader can dramatically defeat leftist dole populism.
So, most of those posts will be gone . The forum isn’t prepared for it .
I don't think that's entirely been proved true. Delhi, for ex, has a decent HDI and by all metrics has one of the highest per capita income in the nation, but yet the lure of free electricity and muddy water was sufficient for AAP to sweep consecutive assembly elections. Remember this is the same Delhi that overwhelmingly voted for BJP in the GE. While the labor party in UK and democrats in US prove that the politics of handouts is an evergreen strategy, in India atleast to reduce the impact of such cunning schemes not just GDP or HDI but the income inequality or GINI coefficient needs to come down. We see the inequality is higher in metros where the per capita income is also higher, unless this disparity goes down ,a large section of the society can still be attracted by handouts.you need enough desperately poor people to appeal to with handout based politics, and there aren't enough desperately poor people in India anymore to win elections reliably with such politics.
Your efforts are timely and wise.Suraj wrote:The handwaving about migrant labourers is a good time to post this information I'd intended to post some months back, but forgot. The term 'Human Development Index' (HDI) usually gets used in this thread in the context of sarcasm about Kerala (rather deserved to an extent, and I say that as someone from there). But let's look at HDI in India as a dynamic metric over the years. Caveat: HDI can be calculated several ways, but the point here is to examine how it's evolved by one measure. This isn't about one state or another - so please leave such parochial concerns at the door.
It is absurd that any sane person would sleep on the railway tracks (as opposed to by the side of them or between two sets of rail lines etc. The only explanation is that they were murdered by being forced/drugged etc to do so.nandakumar wrote:This story doesn't make sense. To sleep on the track means, to sleep on the ballast. Assuming these are concrete bed rails, the sleeping posture would have been extremely uncomfortable with a part of the body on the rail and the rest of the body hanging loose from it.Sachin wrote: I can understand the plight of the migrant labour. And being in a comfortable position (when compared to them) I have no locus standi to preach to them and ask them to stay put up at one place. But it takes a very high level of stupidity to actually walk on a railway track, and then decide to sleep on the tracks. This is lack of common sense, and no way connected to a person's poverty, education or current bad situation. Don't know how a Congress rule would have brought in more common sense.
Saar being a Mallu myself who has never lived in Kerala with visits yearly for Kummati and this is the image of Kerala to the outsider. When 8th-grade education is considered literate, I do not what else to comprehend. But all the HDI is of no use if the people of Kerala have to look beyond its borders for a living wage!Suraj wrote:I don’t think such comments are either constructive or helpful . Shall I turn it around and put words in your mouth of the form ‘so you prefer to live in an eastern Bihar village instead ?’ No, that doesn’t make any sense and neither does your argument. HDI is a worthwhile metric to track, for all its imperfections . It provides a multifactoral picture of the basic quality of life.mappunni wrote:What's the use having great HDI when states like Kerala cannot provide any meaningful employment? The only employment Kerala Commies can provide is Nooku Coolie!
The failure of a state on other measures doesn’t invalidate its success in this regard. I already requested that people avoid parochial arguments like this and look at the larger picture of how it impacts the nation, but youve chosen to deliberately ignore that. What’s the matter ? Same for the other poster running off about alcoholism and lifestyle diseases. Can’t you for once put aside such tactical brilliance ? It seems you think the original post was a verbose ‘Kerala rah rah!’ cheerleading effort . You’re wrong . Don’t sidetrack the conv further please.
HDI matters a lot as an indicator of how high up the basic Maslow scale people are . I grew up in KL and outside KL . I remember as an impressionable youngster being jarred by the sheer difference in basic quality of life between KL and central/north India around late 80s to mid 90s. As those figures show, back then Kerala was the only state with moderately high HDI and those parts were solidly low to very low HDI, and the difference was stark and disturbing to a young kid.
\Suraj wrote:No, it’s a problem . Petty and parochial resentment, and rhetoric prevents the forum from developing the necessary unemotional abstract throught needed to consider what happens to national politics when the vast majority of the population aren’t on the margins of destitution . They may be cash and asset poor still, but rapidly have gained access to things like formal banking, near universal toilet access, a massive basic healthcare program, power to all villages, road connectivity and if it goes to plan - universal clean water access. .
While the effect of each of these on the HDI number itself may wary, it’s a significant evolution that UP today is on the same level as AP in the early 2010s. Given such conditions, ‘rice bag politics’ becomes less and less effective - it works to a limited state level extent now, but only gets them a wear coalition government that’s easily toppled. It’s already shown in two GEs that an aspirational leader can dramatically defeat leftist dole populism.
So, most of those posts will be gone . The forum isn’t prepared for it .
Suraj: Please don't delete your post and associated discussion on HDI. To me it was one of the most enlightening post. I have always thought about the difference in India I visit now versus the one I left 20 years ago. Your post about HDI helped me quantify it. Yes, many people including me sometimes make parochial and limiting comments. That's all the more reason to post your well researched and informed posts.Suraj wrote:No, it’s a problem . Petty and parochial resentment, and rhetoric prevents the forum from developing the necessary unemotional abstract throught needed to consider what happens to national politics when the vast majority of the population aren’t on the margins of destitution . They may be cash and asset poor still, but rapidly have gained access to things like formal banking, near universal toilet access, a massive basic healthcare program, power to all villages, road connectivity and if it goes to plan - universal clean water access. .
While the effect of each of these on the HDI number itself may wary, it’s a significant evolution that UP today is on the same level as AP in the early 2010s. Given such conditions, ‘rice bag politics’ becomes less and less effective - it works to a limited state level extent now, but only gets them a wear coalition government that’s easily toppled. It’s already shown in two GEs that an aspirational leader can dramatically defeat leftist dole populism.
So, most of those posts will be gone . The forum isn’t prepared for it .
You're making a mistake here by not challenging yourself enough, something other posters are also doing. You're thinking "HDI"... "Kerala"... {whatever you think about Kerala}. That's the lazy thought process, where you work from the very first mental frame of reference you have to the term HDI. You're capable of much better than that, you have to come up with better. There are others who are asking more pertinent questions instead of being stuck on Kerala.mappunni wrote:Saar being a Mallu myself who has never lived in Kerala with visits yearly for Kummati and this is the image of Kerala to the outsider. When 8th-grade education is considered literate, I do not what else to comprehend. But all the HDI is of no use if the people of Kerala have to look beyond its borders for a living wage!
I'm doing what a moderator does - shape the discussion towards useful topics and away from noise. Your prior response - as well as several others - were off topic. In your case it was about discussion of other countries, and in others, it was focusing on just one state. Both these concerns have their own separate threads.sanjaykumar wrote:No problem, why not quietly delete your posts. There is no need to play the martyr.
Ambar wrote:I don't think that's entirely been proved true. Delhi, for ex, has a decent HDI and by all metrics has one of the highest per capita income in the nation, but yet the lure of free electricity and muddy water was sufficient for AAP to sweep consecutive assembly elections.
Yes! I'm trying to bring the conversation to this level at least, so this can be discussed. It was being repeatedly sidetracked. Higher HDI changes the nature of politics, but not necessarily for the better. Here's the reality of the country from those maps:KLDubey wrote:However I doubt if HDI has any reliable correlation with stopping "handouts". Sure, once the economy (and therefore HDI - nothing is sustainable without money) starts to run, people are no longer swayed by free rice but they could be swayed by the next level of handouts like "free electricity, free water". Handout/subsidy politics is alive and well in every democratic setup including developed countries like USA.
India is getting very nasty white media attacks, not to mention Islamic media attacks starting with Gulf news, and so I guess ModiJi had to do something to be seen as 'secular'. I don't agree with him, but I am not in power, he is, and he probably has better input on what is hurting India's interests. But at the same time, that retweet by Tejasvai on Arab women was unnecessary. He could have just posted his response to the orchestrated attacks on Hindus and professional manner. His retweet drew unnecessary attention. Plus you see it gives BIF a handle to do equivalence between hard core Islamists and off the the cuff remarks like this.Ambar wrote:Tejaswai was a target of the Indian Islami-Paki-Fake arab-jobless arab campaign to attack Hindus in the Middle East. Sometime in 2015 he had retweeted Tarek Fatah's tweet on muslim women being used only for procreation , although he later deleted the tweet the commie-islami gang used a screenshot of the original tweet and attacked him using their hired arab guns. I don't understand why GoI wants twitter to delete a tweet by an MP of the ruling party when they can easily ask him to delete it . Either ways one of the first thing Modi needs to do after the pandemic scare subsides is to shuffle the ministries. Prakash Javdekar shouldn't be let within 10 miles of I&B ministry office.
For your reading pleasure...Rsatchi wrote:^^^
'At each stop he ( meaning Khalilzad), will urge support for immediate reduction in violence, yada yada'
so In Delhi will he ask us to stop hitting Pakis???
What reduction in violence can we offer???
And later he is going to Slumbad!!!
I think Pakis want Khan to ask Namo to give them breathing space and not keep the LOC hot!!!
Pretty sure there is some serious things going on at the border.
And Baba Banaras is off line to give any second hand tidbits!!! as well.
CRamS wrote:India is getting very nasty white media attacks, not to mention Islamic media attacks starting with Gulf news, and so I guess ModiJi had to do something to be seen as 'secular'. I don't agree with him, but I am not in power, he is, and he probably has better input on what is hurting India's interests. But at the same time, that retweet by Tejasvai on Arab women was unnecessary. He could have just posted his response to the orchestrated attacks on Hindus and professional manner. His retweet drew unnecessary attention. Plus you see it gives BIF a handle to do equivalence between hard core Islamists and off the the cuff remarks like this.Ambar wrote:Tejaswai was a target of the Indian Islami-Paki-Fake arab-jobless arab campaign to attack Hindus in the Middle East. Sometime in 2015 he had retweeted Tarek Fatah's tweet on muslim women being used only for procreation , although he later deleted the tweet the commie-islami gang used a screenshot of the original tweet and attacked him using their hired arab guns. I don't understand why GoI wants twitter to delete a tweet by an MP of the ruling party when they can easily ask him to delete it . Either ways one of the first thing Modi needs to do after the pandemic scare subsides is to shuffle the ministries. Prakash Javdekar shouldn't be let within 10 miles of I&B ministry office.
His tweet as i recall was just a retweet of Tarek Fatah's, and this was in 2015 when Tejaswi Surya was just another recent college grad kid from Bangalore. After the death of Anant Kumar, the incumbent MP from South Blr, everyone thought it would be his widow who'll be the next BJP candidate but were all taken for surprise when Tejaswi Surya , a 27 year old with little political backing was chosen as the candidate. I , for one am glad BJP took such a bold decision because Tejaswi has been an absolute revelation from the class of 2019.CRamS wrote:India is getting very nasty white media attacks, not to mention Islamic media attacks starting with Gulf news, and so I guess ModiJi had to do something to be seen as 'secular'. I don't agree with him, but I am not in power, he is, and he probably has better input on what is hurting India's interests. But at the same time, that retweet by Tejasvai on Arab women was unnecessary. He could have just posted his response to the orchestrated attacks on Hindus and professional manner. His retweet drew unnecessary attention. Plus you see it gives BIF a handle to do equivalence between hard core Islamists and off the the cuff remarks like this.Ambar wrote:Tejaswai was a target of the Indian Islami-Paki-Fake arab-jobless arab campaign to attack Hindus in the Middle East. Sometime in 2015 he had retweeted Tarek Fatah's tweet on muslim women being used only for procreation , although he later deleted the tweet the commie-islami gang used a screenshot of the original tweet and attacked him using their hired arab guns. I don't understand why GoI wants twitter to delete a tweet by an MP of the ruling party when they can easily ask him to delete it . Either ways one of the first thing Modi needs to do after the pandemic scare subsides is to shuffle the ministries. Prakash Javdekar shouldn't be let within 10 miles of I&B ministry office.
CRamS ji,CRamS wrote:India is getting very nasty white media attacks, not to mention Islamic media attacks starting with Gulf news, and so I guess ModiJi had to do something to be seen as 'secular'. I don't agree with him, but I am not in power, he is, and he probably has better input on what is hurting India's interests. But at the same time, that retweet by Tejasvai on Arab women was unnecessary. He could have just posted his response to the orchestrated attacks on Hindus and professional manner. His retweet drew unnecessary attention. Plus you see it gives BIF a handle to do equivalence between hard core Islamists and off the the cuff remarks like this.Ambar wrote:Tejaswai was a target of the Indian Islami-Paki-Fake arab-jobless arab campaign to attack Hindus in the Middle East. Sometime in 2015 he had retweeted Tarek Fatah's tweet on muslim women being used only for procreation , although he later deleted the tweet the commie-islami gang used a screenshot of the original tweet and attacked him using their hired arab guns. I don't understand why GoI wants twitter to delete a tweet by an MP of the ruling party when they can easily ask him to delete it . Either ways one of the first thing Modi needs to do after the pandemic scare subsides is to shuffle the ministries. Prakash Javdekar shouldn't be let within 10 miles of I&B ministry office.
Post-truth is an assertion of ideological supremacy by which its practitioners try to compel someone to believe something regardless of the evidence. Yet post-truth didn't begin with the 2016 election; the denial of scientific facts about smoking, evolution, vaccines, and climate change offers a road map for more widespread fact denial. Add to this the wired-in cognitive biases that make us feel that our conclusions are based on good reasoning even when they are not, the decline of traditional media and the rise of social media, and the emergence of fake news as a political tool, and we have the ideal conditions for post-truth.
the development of the post-truth phenomenon from science denial through the rise of “fake news,” from our psychological blind spots to the public's retreat into “information silos.”
we can fight post-truth, and that the first step in fighting post-truth is to understand it.
Tejaswi has become an icon and a popular social influencer and thought leader in the right wing space. He is articulate, fluent, persuasively combative and very presentable in speech and manner. So this is just a coordinated attempt to take him down and to limit his social media growth, visibility, credibility and relevance.Post-truth is an adjective defined as ‘relating to or denoting circumstances in which objective facts are less influential in shaping public opinion than appeals to emotion and personal belief’.
In India there are millions of high school and "BA pass" graduates who can barely read and write and are unemployable except for very low level jobs...and also reasonably well educated graduates who are unemployed because there are no jobs. Ultimately, education has little bearing on "well being" unless it is somehow connected to your economic condition. In other words, the type of jobs that are obtained after schooling. Again, this shows up in the income category.Ah! But this is fundamentally not possible to sustain in normal situations due to the inextricable correlation between all three components in any "normal" society.Vamsee wrote: Since this index has 3 components, it is possible that a country may “compensate” low value in one of the 3 components with high values in other 2 components.
