India Border Watch: Security and Operations

[Larry Walker]

I looked at the map and more I look the more I am convinced that taking over Aksai-Chin or Lhasa is much more easier as compared to laying seige to Lahore. The issue is that once we liberate Tibet, then lizard will then unleash a direct rocketry and bombing attack on mainland and will throw a significant part of its navy into BoB which will effectively be the main war. On the other hand, taking Lahore is much more difficult, but once we take that, it is effectively end of Porkies. Strange interesting dilemma.

[RKumar]

Sir, they are boasting with overconfidence because of their win at the same place in 1962, which could lead to some unwanted actions at Galwan Valley region. I hope current stuff stays at Doklam 1 level, where Chincom keeps vomiting sh*t like diarrhoea from their mouthpiece Gobar times.

Seems like MoD is preparing for long-duration standoff if push comes to shove for potential action. Preparation, planning and pro-activeness are the keywords - the right people are already burning the midnight oil and are on the tasks.

I hope MIC unions put their acts together and get their as*es back to work.

[RKumar]

I looked at the map and more I look the more I am convinced that taking over Aksai-Chin or Lhasa is much more easier as compared to laying seige to Lahore. The issue is that once we liberate Tibet, then lizard will then unleash a direct rocketry and bombing attack on mainland and will throw a significant part of its navy into BoB which will effectively be the main war. On the other hand, taking Lahore is much more difficult, but once we take that, it is effectively end of Porkies. Strange interesting dilemma.

You are right sir on both counts. Liberating Tibet is much easier because people are against Hans. Emptying Lahore is more difficult, who wants to own a city full of Jehadis.

[manjgu]

neither liberating tibet is easy nor is liberating lahore. Where are the people in Tibet...in 1 or 2 cities thats all. the logistics chain for maintaining an army across the himalayas will be a nightmare ...i think only BRF warriors are planning to liberate Tibet. nobody is planning to liberate Lahore either...i think IA aims are much more modest...to grab a substantial chunk of Paki ( ex Indian) territory which can be used a chip for a final solution of kashmir. beyond that neither we have the financial nor the military stamina. get real

[manjgu]

i am not 100% sure if Chinese are coming to Pakis rescue..they are rescuing themselves given all the -ve attention on them due to covid... use trade to threaten countries not sharing borders...use trade/military to threaten countries sharing borders...

[vimal]

neither liberating tibet is easy nor is liberating lahore. Where are the people in Tibet...in 1 or 2 cities thats all. the logistics chain for maintaining an army across the himalayas will be a nightmare ...i think only BRF warriors are planning to liberate Tibet. nobody is planning to liberate Lahore either...i think IA aims are much more modest...to grab a substantial chunk of Paki ( ex Indian) territory which can be used a chip for a final solution of kashmir. beyond that neither we have the financial nor the military stamina. get real

Glad to know that someone is not smoking Ganja at BRF.

[ChandraV]

Sorry if I'm Johnny Come Lately to this. Just saw latest reportage from Indan Express re: Pangong Tso tent pitching against the PLA, etc.
What caught my eye was the detail that the Chinese are "forecefully" telling Indians to go back and not come past Finger 2. India's perception of the LAC is up to Finger 8. That's a huge land grab in between. Apparently the clash has happened around Finger 4. Supposedly, Indians "physically" control the area up unitl Finger 4.

May be it is the shitty Indian journalism or may be it is the Indian babus and military higher ups in Delhi evading hard questions.

I looked up on 3-D Google Earth. There is a fabulous looking road, plus what seems like a spur to a future tunnel underneath one of the Fingers. This is west of the marked LAC on google maps, for what that's worth. But this metaled road is built up much further west, up to Finger 2. Then it takes a mountain spur and goes off north. On Google maps, it looks like the road that connects up with Phobrang and Lukung much further west. There are a few green-topped buildings also, along the road...again, at Finger 2. Also about 8 large green-roofed buildings at the other end of the road, at Finger 8 where the road seems to go into the finger/mountain.

There is not a similar type of road on the other side of the marked LAC.

So is this really a road that BRO built?! I would be wowed if it did. But if that is the case, then how the heck are the PLA bringing large numbers of troops all the way up to Finger 4 and telling the IA/ITBP to push back to Finger 2??! if the BRO built the road, the IA/ITBP didn't secure it?

So confusing!

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... n-6418370/


Given the history of salami-slicing, I am assuming the worst, and that India has lost more land and more access to the Pangong Tso, with merely the farthest western stretch on nominal Indian control. I wouldn't be surprised if in about two more summers, the Chinese take full defacto control of the lake's northern shore, the full length... and then also secure the southern side, though there are a couple of settled locations on the southern side of the lake.



Who built this road? And who controls access to it? It looks to be really good quality road, which makes me think it's Chinese. And this road goes all the way to

[Aditya_V]

Just to be clear, on google maps these are the cordinates where our road ends 33.740429, 78.746434 and these are the coordinates where the Chinese road starts 33.740429, 78.746434.

Some abroad can please post the coordinates of Galwan, when browsing from India, Galwan has disappeared - is it Chang Chenmo Kangri I ? We cant see the LOC. AGPL or LAC when seeing Google maps from India

[yensoy]

There is a fabulous looking road, plus what seems like a spur to a future tunnel underneath one of the Fingers. This is west of the marked LAC on google maps, for what that's worth. But this metaled road is built up much further west, up to Finger 2. Then it takes a mountain spur and goes off north. On Google maps, it looks like the road that connects up with Phobrang and Lukung much further west. There are a few green-topped buildings also, along the road...again, at Finger 2. Also about 8 large green-roofed buildings at the other end of the road, at Finger 8 where the road seems to go into the finger/mountain.

Who built this road? And who controls access to it? It looks to be really good quality road, which makes me think it's Chinese. And this road goes all the way to

If we are looking at the same 8 green roofed buildings arranged in a U pattern, please take a look at the small white lettering on the mountain face. It says "ITBP". May answer your questions.

[Aditya_V]

looking at Hotan Airport around 370KM north East of Leh at 37.040632, 79.862769 google coordinates, its looks like the Chinese have placed a lot of J-7 and J-8 aircraft there. On the other side of the airport they have about 12 flankers

[ChandraV]

Just to be clear, on google maps these are the cordinates where our road ends 33.740429, 78.746434 and these are the coordinates where the Chinese road starts 33.740429, 78.746434.

Some abroad can please post the coordinates of Galwan, when browsing from India, Galwan has disappeared - is it Chang Chenmo Kangri I ? We cant see the LOC. AGPL or LAC when seeing Google maps from India

Thanks for the coordinates on the Indian/PLA roads on north bank of Pangong Tso.

Galwan outside of India on google maps is labeled "The Galwan River" and the approximate coordinates where it meets the Shyok River are: 34.76074111551819, 78.16882832681654

The only road that is supposed to be near there is the "Road to SSN" which is on the opposite bank of the Shyok, the western bank. Google Earth views show barely even a donkey trek. Maybe finally the government is doing the tough job of getting a paved road built. This "Road to SSN" is the one that leads north to Murgo to Daulat Beg Oldie and eventually to the Karakoram Pass after passing thru the Depsang Plains. So having a stronger road here would be very strategically important for India, no doubt.

But there is no visible road in the Galwan River valley itself-- the river looks more like a fast-flowing mountain stream cutting thru deep mountain valley...not even a visible donkey trek is seen in a quick view. The LAC cuts thrgu the river valley not even two miles east of where the river meets Shyok.

[ChandraV]

There is a fabulous looking road, plus what seems like a spur to a future tunnel underneath one of the Fingers. This is west of the marked LAC on google maps, for what that's worth. But this metaled road is built up much further west, up to Finger 2. Then it takes a mountain spur and goes off north. On Google maps, it looks like the road that connects up with Phobrang and Lukung much further west. There are a few green-topped buildings also, along the road...again, at Finger 2. Also about 8 large green-roofed buildings at the other end of the road, at Finger 8 where the road seems to go into the finger/mountain.

Who built this road? And who controls access to it? It looks to be really good quality road, which makes me think it's Chinese. And this road goes all the way to

If we are looking at the same 8 green roofed buildings arranged in a U pattern, please take a look at the small white lettering on the mountain face. It says "ITBP". May answer your questions.

oh, dang. i wasn't paying attention. thanks!

but then the news reports are still confusing. how are the Chinese meeting Indian forces so much west of that ITBP sign and telling them to go further west.

[ChandraV]

Just to be clear, on google maps these are the cordinates where our road ends 33.740429, 78.746434 and these are the coordinates where the Chinese road starts 33.740429, 78.746434.

Some abroad can please post the coordinates of Galwan, when browsing from India, Galwan has disappeared - is it Chang Chenmo Kangri I ? We cant see the LOC. AGPL or LAC when seeing Google maps from India

it's not Chang Chenmo Kangri I; that's a major mountain peak. Galwan River is good 30 miles north of Chang Chenmo Kangri I, north even of Charbagh Kangri, if the label on google maps here is to be believed. It is east of Panamic, on the opposite bank of Shyok River from Panamic.

[sajaym]

Forget about capturing Tibet or large chunks of Chinese territory, if the troops being inducted by IA are just a bunch of soldiers wearing sweaters and carrying small arms then Lata Mangeshkar better get ready to sing. If IA is serious about even holding ground, then the troop buildup should include some serious weaponry among the first line soldiers -- I'm talking things like mini drones, anti-material rifles, automatic grenade launchers, should-fired SA & AT missiles, and at least a bare minimum of the L-70 guns for direct fire. Notice how I'm not talking about the SU-30s, Brahmos missiles or even the big arty guns...these are secondary attack capabilities which will take time to arrive at the respective flashpoint site. If India even remotely wants to send a strong message to China, then that message needs to be sent in the first few minutes, not after hours or days. Most horrific would be the familiar 'Dharmraj Yudhistra' stance by the Indian government wherein they just throw up their hands and complain to the world/U.S. about how India was just minding its business while China was planning war. So the first few minutes are crucial, if we don't hold the Chinks in the first few minutes then it's "...Aankh mein bhar lo paani" all over again.

[TushS]

Forget about capturing Tibet or large chunks of Chinese territory, if the troops being inducted by IA are just a bunch of soldiers wearing sweaters and carrying small arms then Lata Mangeshkar better get ready to sing. If IA is serious about even holding ground, then the troop buildup should include some serious weaponry among the first line soldiers -- I'm talking things like mini drones, anti-material rifles, automatic grenade launchers, should-fired SA & AT missiles, and at least a bare minimum of the L-70 guns for direct fire. Notice how I'm not talking about the SU-30s, Brahmos missiles or even the big arty guns...these are secondary attack capabilities which will take time to arrive at the respective flashpoint site. If India even remotely wants to send a strong message to China, then that message needs to be sent in the first few minutes, not after hours or days. Most horrific would be the familiar 'Dharmraj Yudhistra' stance by the Indian government wherein they just throw up their hands and complain to the world/U.S. about how India was just minding its business while China was planning war. So the first few minutes are crucial, if we don't hold the Chinks in the first few minutes then it's "...Aankh mein bhar lo paani" all over again.

When India took a stand in Doklam, it wasn't ran towards anyone with complaint letters in hand. IA have enough fire power to behold the enemy there only.
Between Babaji came with similar info:
"Additional troops & equipments deployed by IA at key positions near flash point of Galwan Valley.IA increased water patrolling in Pangong lake.key positions of enemy r locked. In case of any misadventure by enemy,1st wave of retaliation will down d enemy on knee within 30 minutes"
https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/126 ... 01120?s=19

[nam]

GT is blowing hot air, saying India is being delusional to think it can replace China as the world's factory ( to some extent i agree )

I think what probably started as post winter local clashes, is now catching the eyeball in Beijing and probably caught up with the Chinese virus retaliation.

The Chinese might keep this going, to pressure on us and show us "our place".

[RKumar]

The Chinese might keep this going, to pressure on us and show us "our place".

Excuse me, what is "our place"??

[nam]

The Chinese might keep this going, to pressure on us and show us "our place".

Excuse me, what is "our place"??

The Chinese seems to say every time they get angry with other countries. "we will show you your place"

[Deans]

[quote="Vidur"]BSF+ITBP+SSB should be amalgamated. Top echelons commanded by Army officers instead of IPS. Control should be moved to Defence Ministry, DMA. Budget should move also. Training institutions for their officers should be amalgamated to one. Jawan training institutions should be rationalised and regional training centres for combined BSF can be created using existing training institutions.

CISF and RPF should be amalgamated. Top echelons commanded by their own officers not IPS. Control should stay with Home Ministry. IPS officers should be sent on deputation only as ASP so that they can learn the trade and stay on with the force in a continuos unbroken assignment for 5 years. All mid and senior echelons should be officered by own officers of CISF not IPS. IPS officers on deputation can continue with the force but once they go back to policing they should not be allowed back

CRPF should stay as is but should go through overhaul of training, tactics and ethos using expertise of army officers on deputation for 5-7 years. Top echelons should be commanded by their own officers. IPS officers can come on deputation as ASP and stay on as per same conditions as in CISF and RPF. Once they are repatriated to parent cadre they should not come back[/quote

I think we should merge the CAPFs - we are the only country with so many agencies. We could do it in the following way:

A. Border Security: BSF (Western and Eastern Wing) and ITBP (mountains).
Merge the SSB with the BSF. Nepal border becomes a posting for the less physically active members of the force.

B. Internal security: Merge the CRPF, CISF & Assam rifles
1st part of the combined force is a dedicated counter insurgency force. Its elite would be the NSG.
2nd part is a armed reserve police / static guard duty force.
Units can get rotated across both functions.

I think both BSF and CRPF (COIN units) should have the opportunity to serve in the Rashtriya rifles

This would provide a career path for men (move to an `active formation' for more pay. Units in COIN or sensitive border areas can be
led by army officers or dedicated cadre officers (not IPS).

[ArjunPandit]

Forget about capturing Tibet or large chunks of Chinese territory, if the troops being inducted by IA are just a bunch of soldiers wearing sweaters and carrying small arms then Lata Mangeshkar better get ready to sing. If IA is serious about even holding ground, then the troop buildup should include some serious weaponry among the first line soldiers -- I'm talking things like mini drones, anti-material rifles, automatic grenade launchers, should-fired SA & AT missiles, and at least a bare minimum of the L-70 guns for direct fire. Notice how I'm not talking about the SU-30s, Brahmos missiles or even the big arty guns...these are secondary attack capabilities which will take time to arrive at the respective flashpoint site. If India even remotely wants to send a strong message to China, then that message needs to be sent in the first few minutes, not after hours or days. Most horrific would be the familiar 'Dharmraj Yudhistra' stance by the Indian government wherein they just throw up their hands and complain to the world/U.S. about how India was just minding its business while China was planning war. So the first few minutes are crucial, if we don't hold the Chinks in the first few minutes then it's "...Aankh mein bhar lo paani" all over again.

where do you see soldiers wearing sweaters? i was in ladakh 5 years back and soldiers seemed well clothed....for truth's sake india is sitting on top of siachen for last 36 years..weapons are kept in open when and where they are needed..also do you think Su 30 will take days/weeks to come ..esp after the news that IAF scrambled for entering chinese helis? during dokalam did we cry and make racist videos on gobar times ..in fact we didnt go anywhere...it was chinese who were shouting/crying from WSJ, FT, BBC in addition to state run media..however if you still think you have some advice and it is not heard in this armchair forum, i suggest you reach out to ADGPI on twitter or through other means..afterall what would generals who have spent decades on ground would know ..
as for hours minutes for response..was balakot response timely for you..we need to act at a place and time of our choosing and not their choosing...

[ChandraV]

It is far easier and quicker to escalate or respond if your company level formations at the front are armed to the teeth and also have really good motorable access to their patrolling points practically to the LAC. I think that's the major difference right now between PLA and the Indian side; they can and do choose to salami-slice right in front of our open eyes, and all the SU-30MKI in the world can't do anything about it. Their patrolling happens by jeep while ours come by on mules or on foot. Their forward posts and supplies are probably better equipped too. That matters. Our jawans do the best they can given how they're armed and supplied.

So, is the "Galwan Valley" flashpoint about the BRO/IA making the "Road to SSN" more "pucca" and all-weather? That mule trek is on the opposite (western) bank of the Shyok, so the Chinese have a problem even with that? Are we civilians to assume that the Chinese have gained operational control of the actual ground position all the way to the eastern banks of the Shyok river and are ultimately seeking to isolate the DBO and Karakoram pass road to then take that over and move the border to Shyok?

[Vivek K]

If India stands her ground the bully will go away. Continue to do what was started.

[ChandraV]

That's not how it works in real life; even where we have roads all the way to the border, we don't man the border post throughout the year because it is too cold and too barren and nobody is there on the other side; we come back in Spring, and they also come back in Spring. But if they come back earlier and occupy your road or disallow you access to your post, and tell you now this is no longer India, then what?
Is India doing anything similar by purposely extending its patrols to a further north or easterly points than it has since 1962? I don't know, but it doesn't seem likely, or else Chinese would be the one with urgency to settle the border. Instead, they keep taking a few meters and kilometers every summer... without so much as firing a shot or having to make any of their aircraft airborne.

[Aditya_V]

They have not taken anything since 1962. The Chinese right now don't see us as say the US and feel like they can take panga with us, they do the same with Japan and a lot of their neighbors. They come shout and go back. They have not taken any territory from us since 62.

[SidSoma]

If India stands her ground the bully will go away. Continue to do what was started.

I am just waiting for MoEA to come out and say "unless China respects One India policy and gets out of PoK and talks to us on other disputed territory, we will not even acknowledge One China policy". And then send a destroyer to taiwan for bilateral exercise.

[vishvak]

What has Chinese got to lose? Indian should atleast get maps exchanged unless waiting for China to settle on their convenience.

The Chinese communist party snatched power under revolution so how are Chinese talking of previous any discussion between China's last rulers (Qing) or govt in exile.

[parshuram]

@sajyam . Dude Army as more then a armoured regiment just 30 Km from Pangong Tso and 60 - 80 kms from area of conflict in Pangong . There are state of the art military installations which I will not name Here surrounding pangong streching all the way from Chinese border to all the way till Turtuk near Pakistani border . Well garrisoned and connected they Have best gear available to their access within short time . It would be rather stupid and amateurish to think facing THE two enemies India have on borders we will keep our equipment away from that . Well for proof I can only say My younger sibling is posted there as I type and he is itching to go at Chinese . All he needs is his CO order

[Larry Walker]

I don't mind smoking ganja if it helps me clear my mind of deep prejudices and fears that have accumulated by all the defeatist mindset I have witnessed from my childhood, especially against China. But keeping these personal taunts aside, I think on this forum we have a general agreement that Indian forces amassed are in much higher ratio as compared to what Chinese have and even when Chinese buildup they may at max match out numbers in most areas. So when the balloon goes up, I don't think India will throw away the advantage and wait for Chinese to match forces. The best play would be to have pincers towards strategic targets in Tibet and leverage the weakness Chinese have in maintaining the huge logistic chain from their heartland. Even if we reach Lhasa, our logistic chain would still not be longer than Chinese and we have a geographical advantage of falling back into the mountains if we have to retreat later. Much better to exhaust the Chinese by making them slogn from Lhasa all the way back to our borders rather than facing and trying to hold a full assault on our borders.

[nam]

Dimmer has again put up a tweet, "I am telling you again, India will do a false flag".

Obviously the account is managed by some PA crony. His constant tweet tells, it is an indication of a up coming terror attack, with no clear link to Pak.

The last joker made a video before blowing up. PA won't repeat the mistake again of keeping a tell take sign.

Generally attacks happen primarily in winter or around monsoon.

[Deans]

@sajyam . Dude Army as more then a armoured regiment just 30 Km from Pangong Tso and 60 - 80 kms from area of conflict in Pangong . There are state of the art military installations which I will not name Here surrounding pangong streching all the way from Chinese border to all the way till Turtuk near Pakistani border . Well garrisoned and connected they Have best gear available to their access within short time . It would be rather stupid and amateurish to think facing THE two enemies India have on borders we will keep our equipment away from that . Well for proof I can only say My younger sibling is posted there as I type and he is itching to go at Chinese . All he needs is his CO order

I've seen the same thing in North Sikkim. Very significant IA presence (outnumbering civilians) close to the border. I spotted a mechanised unit,
though the terrain is not suited for mechanised warfare. Gave a lift to 2 soldiers who basically said they just need CO's permission to kick Chinese
butt - at an altitude where a civilian like me got a headache after a few hours.

[RKumar]

That's not how it works in real life; even where we have roads all the way to the border, we don't man the border post throughout the year because it is too cold and too barren and nobody is there on the other side; we come back in Spring, and they also come back in Spring. But if they come back earlier and occupy your road or disallow you access to your post, and tell you now this is no longer India, then what?
Is India doing anything similar by purposely extending its patrols to a further north or easterly points than it has since 1962? I don't know, but it doesn't seem likely, or else Chinese would be the one with urgency to settle the border. Instead, they keep taking a few meters and kilometers every summer... without so much as firing a shot or having to make any of their aircraft airborne.

What is stopping us to do the reverse next year? Or after they vacate their positions? We have nationalistic party ruling the country and Services have freedom to operate at local levels. Observe the Sino behaviors and pay back with interest as per our dharma.

[RKumar]

What has Chinese got to lose? Indian should atleast get maps exchanged unless waiting for China to settle on their convenience.

The Chinese communist party snatched power under revolution so how are Chinese talking of previous any discussion between China's last rulers (Qing) or govt in exile.

Chinese are not sharing any official maps and keep extending their claims.

Nepal is taking lessons from panda but they have neither economic nor military strength to push borders outward. India is still standing with Nepal but it will change soon. Nepal is busy filling their pap Ka matka before India acts in its own interest. They still have somewhat immunity for time being due to our historical ties. Nepal’s next actions will define our long term relationships, we all should remember it is easy to break a relationship but will take decades to rebuild it.

[nam]

It is unnecessary to create a public ho ha over Nepal. There are easier way to deal with the political jokers.

Go after their cronies and financial assets. Make it really difficult for Nepali commies to come to India. The commies will in turn take money from the Chinese and a little scandal of the chaps being caught red handed while taking money, will make for a nice scandal...

They can keep screaming India is doing conspiracy, we can keep denying.

[nam]

Regarding the LAC standoff, it is quite a funny situation.

When there is a standoff regarding a road, it results in a build up, which indirectly forces us to expand the road and make it usable for troop movement.

So fundamentally, the standoff results in the same road being expanded, for which the standoff occurred in the first place

Before Doklam standoff, there was hardly one road to that plateau. Post crisis, there are roads all over the place

[chola]

Regarding the LAC standoff, it is quite a funny situation.

When there is a standoff regarding a road, it results in a build up, which indirectly forces us to expand the road and make it usable for troop movement.

So fundamentally, the standoff results in the same road being expanded, for which the standoff occurred in the first place

Before Doklam standoff, there was hardly one road to that plateau. Post crisis, there are roads all over the place

That was what I hope would happen. After Doklam, the whole region should be criss-crossed with roads. We had a defeatist mindset before where we kept the border areas underdeveloped so that the chinis will not have roads to use if they invades. Nuts. We are the ones with more troops and they should be the ones afraid that we will use THEIR roads.

I hear they have very good infrastructure on their side so once we on the plateau, it should expedite rapid movement to Lhasa.

[Vidur]

Has this group done realistic war gaming ? There is an interesting situation developing vis a vis China.

One approach as someone succintly put is to 'Hanut the Han'. Interesting tweet thread

https://twitter.com/Ak5985965/status/12 ... 4344019968

[Vips]

Regarding the LAC standoff, it is quite a funny situation.

When there is a standoff regarding a road, it results in a build up, which indirectly forces us to expand the road and make it usable for troop movement.

So fundamentally, the standoff results in the same road being expanded, for which the standoff occurred in the first place

Before Doklam standoff, there was hardly one road to that plateau. Post crisis, there are roads all over the place

That was what I hope would happen. After Doklam, the whole region should be criss-crossed with roads. We had a defeatist mindset before where we kept the border areas underdeveloped so that the chinis will not have roads to use if they invades. Nuts. We are the ones with more troops and they should be the ones afraid that we will use THEIR roads.

I hear they have very good infrastructure on their side so once we on the plateau, it should expedite rapid movement to Lhasa.

Per this news report,the chinese have clearly transgressed in our area and we have rushed in additonal troops but have not deployed them.So is there any additional step in the escalatory ladder that we are waiting for in Lucknowi andaaz?

[Vivek K]

Why do we respond in a predictive manner? Why don't Indian troops open other fronts and occupy five Chinese areas in response to one?

[Roop]

Why do we respond in a predictive manner? Why don't Indian troops open other fronts and occupy five Chinese areas in response to one?

I agree. I think the time has come for India to open up a different front, in an area where China is weaker/not expecting an Indian riposte -- say somewhere in Sikkim, overlooking the Doklam area in Bhutan. Not just start shooting, but start shooting, kill at least a hundred or so Chinese soldiers, capture territory occupied/claimed by them and just keep quiet about it, i.e. don't boast about it in public (but the whole world will know we did it) and leave it for the Chinese to decide if they want to escalate or just sit quietly and lick their wounds. If they do escalate, we should aggressively meet them blow for blow, including the use of air power if necessary. There will never be a better time for this kind of action, from India's point of view. The whole world is pissed off with China, and they only have Pakis and NoKo on their side.

I say this because I think it has now become clear to everyone (even our neta/babu/mantri class) that China will never behave itself and live peacefully on the border unless it is forced to do so (and by that I mean military force, i.e. a real shooting war). I don't really think they have the guts to fight (Chola spoke about this repeatedly during the Doklam scuffle), but if they do, fine -- let's go at it. India cannot go on like this, year after year, petrified about when and where China will take the initiative and push the next pinprick, boasting in their lapdog press about how strong they are while we are perpetually on the defensive (and all the f**king cowardly shivering dhotis in India show up on the internet whining about how the mighty PLA is kicking our azs again).

The thing is (and again, I am repeating what Chola said but others have said so too), the Chinese are not necessary good fighters when it comes to actually risking life and limb against an opponent who can fight back and return fire. They are very good at intimidating potential adversaries, making a lot of noise, fancy military parades, shiny equipment, fierce-looking soldiers strutting about etc., but when push comes to shove, they are very unimpressive soldiers. What self-respecting army in the world will tolerate a junior enemy officer punching one of their majors in the nose and simply retreat peacefully? I hope everyone here remembers the articles posted by a BRF member (maybe it was Manjgu?? Sorry, I don't remember) about the miserable, cowardly performance of the Chinese UN soldiers when confronted by a rag-tag bunch of ganja-chewing African teenage riff-raff. The mighty PLA soldiers fled in terror, abandoning their weapons and equipment to the riff-raff. Arre wah!! Some f**king army!

[manjgu]

yes it was manjgu