2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 May 2020 20:38

darshan wrote:
Sachin wrote: It seems to be a temporary move as the elections to the Waqf boards could not be completed on time. But UP government did not allow that as an excuse to extend the term of the current board members.
Noted that. However, when one notices two states, one can't not be in awe of Yogi and disgusted by Rupani. Yogi taking over from non BJP govt with lot more problems and associated green energy is getting more done 24/7 than Rupani. Especially when GJ has been under BJP rule forever with BJP in center.

rupani's position appears shaky because of infighting and groupism. Consequently, the elbow room for maneuver is extremely limited and rupani has to toe a narrow line to keep all factions happy. The real power in gujarat is Amit Shah.

The BJP has already burnt its fingers over anandiben patel whom they had to move out of the state to scuttle an alternate power center forming. So, a weak rupani is best for all concerned.

yogi came to power against the wishes of the guys in dilli because of his strong support in UP and he actually does not care too much for Modi and the power structure at the center though, as a "disciplined" soldier of the party, he pays the required lip service.

Yogi, in fact, has turned out to be a big surprise as well as a major revelation to the powers that be in dilli and on his own, he now has reached an unassailable position in UP because of his bold management and political chutzpah.

As in all things, politics included, success is the precursor to acceptance and thus yogi has arrived on the scene with more than a big bang. He has silenced his critics and also, both mayawati and akaless are on notice.

Politically hard working, personally incorruptible, he is wily, inspired, and unpredictable and this makes him dangerous to his opponents in UP who have never seen a CM, the likes of Yogi before.

shivraj singh chouhan was once hotly touted as the strongest contender to replace Modi but these days people only talk of yogi and chouhan seems to have fallen by the political wayside.

In any case, the BJP now has a very strong bench strength and no other dispensation can even come close to matching it.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 22 May 2020 22:12

@chetak, going with your interpretation then Modi/Shah themselves need some reality check by seeing BJP loose GJ. There's no room for errors like missing out on Yogi or have incorrect judgement about him.

If Shah is really running the show in GJ, then he has lot to answer about no actions against mafia networks, BJP MLAs running in various cities with mafia networks, no legalization of liquor, tons of business owners losing businesses to green energy, EJs running amok, BJP workers interfering with Coronavirus related help going out of local mandirs, ...... Way too many problems to list. But enough to ask for political changes. Better to see BJP loose GJ while Modi is at the center to have things recalibrated in GJ than at some other time.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 May 2020 22:18

darshan wrote:@chetak, going with your interpretation then Modi/Shah themselves need some reality check by seeing BJP loose GJ. There's no room for errors like missing out on Yogi or have incorrect judgement about him.

If Shah is really running the show in GJ, then he has lot to answer about no actions against mafia networks, BJP MLAs running in various cities with mafia networks, no legalization of liquor, tons of business owners losing businesses to green energy, EJs running amok, BJP workers interfering with Coronavirus related help going out of local mandirs, ...... Way too many problems to list. But enough to ask for political changes. Better to see BJP loose GJ while Modi is at the center to have things recalibrated in GJ than at some other time.

that is exactly what factionalism is all about.

About yogi, it has really become the hobson's choice now.

look at KAR, the situation there is far worse. Nothing that MAD can do about it.

even there, yeddi was not the choice but factionalism rules strong and there are multiple power centers with caste implications and to balance it all, yeddi ended up as the proverbial hobson's choice.

In KAR and GUJ, the players are local and very narrow minded with short term objectives but MAD are the big picture guys and that is why they have to bide their time.

Bush fires are already burning in MAH and RAJ and unless those states get taken over, the congies still continue to have unimpeded access to very considerable financial, as well as, patronage generating resources

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 May 2020 22:48

is this proof enough that God indeed exists

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 May 2020 23:05

Vishnu Tiwari @VishnuTiwari985·7h

समय बड़ा बलवान है ...
ये वही अखिलेश_यादव है जो हाथ जोड़े खड़े है ...
जिन्होंने ने गोरखपुर के एक चुनावी भाषण में कहा था है की "हमने सुना है यहाँ कोई बाबा रहते है"

आज देखिए बाबा से
साक्षात_मुलाकात भी हो गई.... !

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 22 May 2020 23:15

chetak wrote:is this proof enough that God indeed exists

Only a peaceful can take care of another one.

la.khan · Post by **la.khan** » 23 May 2020 09:21

vimal wrote:
chetak wrote:is this proof enough that God indeed exists

Only a peaceful can take care of another one.

While it is always welcome to have a Category 5 Moron to be at the receiving end, that too from a RoPer, the article was copyrighted in 1998. 22 year old news

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 23 May 2020 10:48

Some body really needs attention from others.

.
India Faces a Major Economic Catastrophe, PMO Can't Handle By Itself, Says Raghuram Rajan

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 May 2020 11:01

Sachin wrote:Some body really needs attention from others. .
India Faces a Major Economic Catastrophe, PMO Can't Handle By Itself, Says Raghuram Rajan

I have a strong distrust about so called saviors with no skin in the game advocating policy prescriptions.

These people have no clue and usually make things worst. Instead of better, MMS is a textbook example.

Elected politician is a much better policy maker as he can be voted out for not performing.

People like R3 just move from one failure to another. With no accountability to anyone.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 May 2020 11:38

Sachin wrote:Some body really needs attention from others. .
India Faces a Major Economic Catastrophe, PMO Can't Handle By Itself, Says Raghuram Rajan

the money that he recommended after his "expert" economic analysis was 65K crores.

He went radio silent when 20 lakh crores was actually allotted and now his masters have yanked at his leash and this guy has come out and opened his mouth again to spew venom as always.

no "economist" ever has skin in the game. rajan is the spit and scoot variety, a type that abounds in the Indian political mileu. This guy is also intellectually dishonest and moreover, he has teamed up with a guy whose father publicly disgraced rajan's father. He is also guilty of defacto dishonesty and is culpable for having signed off on the 80:20 gold import scheme on dates that were well after the new Modi govt was elected and he had not yet received the customary communique from the new govt about his continuance in office.

MMS was never elected and was well nigh unelectable. rajan is spearheading the possible formation of the NAC-2 type of scenario

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 May 2020 11:58

Pratyush wrote:
Sachin wrote:Some body really needs attention from others. .
India Faces a Major Economic Catastrophe, PMO Can't Handle By Itself, Says Raghuram Rajan

I have a strong distrust about so called saviors with no skin in the game advocating policy prescriptions.

These people have no clue and usually make things worst. Instead of better, MMS is a textbook example.

Elected politician is a much better policy maker as he can be voted out for not performing.

People like R3 just move from one failure to another. With no accountability to anyone.

May 16: The hardworking Dr. Raghuram Rajan and the story of a gold import circular

You know who never takes a day off? The Indian Army. But even more than that, Dr. Raghuram Rajan. This nation and its one-eyed economy would be blind without him. Massive, massive respect for you sir!

16 May, 2020
Abhishek Banerjee,

This is an article of appreciation for the brilliant Dr. Raghuram Rajan. Here are just three reasons why he is so awesome.

Raghuram Rajan, former RBI governor

I’m in love. Anyway…

But why today? Well, because it is May 16. Except for the very young, most Indians would remember May 16 as the day the results of the 2014 General Election were announced. There were so many ‘firsts’ that day that it is probably impossible to remember them all.

For the first time in India’s history, a non-Congress government was voted into power with a full majority.

In fact, it was the first ever government to win a majority in the Lok Sabha since 1984!

This was the first time that the Congress Party won less than 100 seats in the Lok Sabha. In fact, they won so few seats that they could not even qualify for the post of Leader of the Opposition.

Indian democracy took a giant leap on May 16, 2014. By mid-2017, the Congress was ousted as the largest party in the Rajya Sabha, for the first time since independence. The Congress monopoly was finally over.

Now where does Dr. Raghuram Rajan figure in all this? Well, because I want to give you an example of what a real “karmayogi” is like. Most people wonder why he is so much better than all of us. Let me show you.

Suffice to say that when May 16, 2014 happened, most mere mortals like us were caught up in the moment. PM Modi was sworn into office on the evening on May 26. For so many of us, it was a ten day period of intense speculation and feverish excitement. A ten day break of sorts when we left our ordinary lives behind and thought of things much bigger than ourselves.

But real karmayogis like Dr. Raghuram Rajan don’t take such breaks. Like the great Arjuna, Dr. Rajan sees nothing except the eye of the bird. Outside of his ‘karma’ and his ‘lakshya,’ the world does not exist for him.

RBI circular of 21 May 2014

On May 21, 2014, the RBI issued a circular that allowed certain “star trading houses” and “premier trading houses” to undertake certain business activities under the so-called 80:20 scheme.

Only a star like Dr. Raghuram Rajan could have such an eye for stars! When most mere mortals were wasting time watching political drama unfold on TV, Dr. Raghuram Rajan was hard at work. Doing his best for the Indian economy.

Now, you’ve heard of Gitanjali Gems and Mehul Choksi. Like so many messiahs and so many visionaries, Mehul Choksi is a misunderstood man. Any day now, I am guessing that some retired judge who has joined Congress will tell a court that India has no case against poor Mr. Choksi. Then his critics will look real foolish.

But you know who is really really foolish? People who think they have stuff to teach Dr. Raghuram Rajan.

2018 report on PNB scam

Look into Dr. Raghuram Rajan’s eyes. Just do it. Can you feel the hypnotizing effect of his supreme intelligence? Do these look like the eyes of a man who would miss out on spotting a threat?

It should be noted that the BJP government scrapped the 80:20 scheme in November 2014. And now the world has been hit by a pandemic. See what happens when we don’t listen to Dr. Raghuram Rajan?

You know who never takes a day off? The Indian Army. But even more than that, Dr. Raghuram Rajan. This nation and its one-eyed economy would be blind without him. Massive, massive respect for you sir!

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 May 2020 12:19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUg4dxt1BYo

RVS Mani on IAS officer getting training in Pakistan and how some sections wield massive influence

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 May 2020 14:29

striking a touristy presidential pose.

Does this guy harbor such unrequited ambitions

a quid pro quo for bihar, perhaps

everything else he wanted/hoped for has been swept away in the Modi tsunami, leaving him caged in his little hen house with no political space to maneuver or the conducive political climate to spread his wings.

dinesh_kimar · Post by **dinesh_kimar** » 23 May 2020 15:53

^ Sirjee, I will just make some timepass observations of local political sentiment. Just some lighthearted banter.

Many I've spoken to find Namo's handling of economy very (for want of better word) crappy. This sentiment is huge among MSMEs and industries.

Many companies like Triveni Wind Turbines, Fouress Valves and BFW were hitting 500 crore turnover before he came to power, and today are closed down. That's abt 4000 direct jobs lost there.

His people choices are quite bad, only few good hands like Parrikar (dead)and VK Singh (suppressed as a MoS).

The bad choices are present ministers of Finance, Education/HRD, Law, information and Broadcasting, people are unified in their irritation for these incumbents, across all sections of society.

A Twitter poll held 2 days back asked" which Bjp leader will bail you out if you get caught for Dharmic/ Hindutva activities incl. those covered under FoE?"

Smriti Irani got one vote, Tejinder Bagga got a few.

Most importantly, 2/3rd of the folk said " None".

If there's one observation people make, it's that Namo has used his power badly. Every indian was brimming with ideas in 2014, and is disillusioned now.

No one denies that Sonia and UPA are pro Muslim, anti national and corrupt, but people feel that life under them was easier, more opportunities and market sentiments were there.

Have no expectations, do your own thing without fuss, if blocked, pay DK Shivakumar or whomsoever a 10% cut, and he unblocks you, the system refreshes itself, and the game can continue.

So don't disregard Nitish Kumar, or the UPA yet, 2024 is only 3 and a half years away, and people are going to seek an account for 10 years of governance with parliamentary majority.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 May 2020 16:02

^^^^^^^

@dinesh_kimar ji

Almost everything that you have pointed out is true.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 23 May 2020 19:05

Mumbai didn't vote to suffer but it's suffering. While Delhi voted to suffer but it's not.

Delhi government ad on civil defence recruitment refers to Sikkim as an independent country
https://www.opindia.com/2020/05/delhi-g ... tan-nepal/

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 23 May 2020 20:43

dinesh_kimar wrote:^
......So don't disregard Nitish Kumar, or the UPA yet, 2024 is only 3 and a half years away, and people are going to seek an account for 10 years of governance with parliamentary majority.

Nitish kumar is born from most intense Socialist environment created by lohia-jaiprakash narayan-indira; don't expect him to be Narasimha Rao, if modi is semi-indira, semi-nehru, nitish will be indira-nehru-lohia on steroids.

Yes modi was expected to be Narasimha Rao + Vajpayee on steroids and turned out to be a damp squib, but nitish isn't that man either.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 May 2020 21:07

Manish_Sharma wrote:
dinesh_kimar wrote:^
......So don't disregard Nitish Kumar, or the UPA yet, 2024 is only 3 and a half years away, and people are going to seek an account for 10 years of governance with parliamentary majority.
Nitish kumar is born from most intense Socialist environment created by lohia-jaiprakash narayan-indira; don't expect him to be Narasimha Rao, if modi is semi-indira, semi-nehru, nitish will be indira-nehru-lohia on steroids.

Yes modi was expected to be Narasimha Rao + Vajpayee on steroids and turned out to be a damp squib, but nitish isn't that man either.

Narasimha Rao was a unique politician and it will take many decades if ever, to find another nationalistic gem like him. He was quite satisfied with his lot before his vanvas was so rudely interrupted and he was dragged back to power and the centerstage and once there, he did what was necessary.

If any single politician actually deserves a national memorial in dilli, it is him.

he used whatever tool that was necessary and wasn't in the least squeamish in using whatever means necessary to sort out some really contentious issues.

A "leader" like gandhi barricaded himself politically using silly idealistic moral fences to constrain himself and yet today his true colors as "the stretcher bearer of the british empire" is beginning to surface.

Modi has the heart but not the intellectual firepower so he will take longer to achieve goals.

Suresh S · Post by **Suresh S** » 23 May 2020 21:13

Yesterday I did not sleep much in the night . I have been thinking about the direction and achievement of this BJP govt in last 6 yrs. I give them barely a 5-6 out of 10 on handling of economy and military matters .But if u take into account the extremely high expectations of people like me and others they score a fail on my report card. Than I just read a time pass comment above and seems some people agree with that thinking.

I will never vote for congis as they are traitors but BJP needs a change in leadership for India to march ahead. Unless Modi can achieve something extra ordinary in the coming 4 yrs I will consider him a failure. The only achievement worth noting are Ram Mandir and article 370 both very high on my emotional card but does little for the economy or military.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 23 May 2020 21:19

dinesh_kimar wrote:Have no expectations, do your own thing without fuss, if blocked, pay DK Shivakumar or whomsoever a 10% cut, and he unblocks you, the system refreshes itself, and the game can continue.

This is the underlying sentiment about why UPA was better from many people. They accept the corruption but the feeling was that more or less, things were on auto-cruise.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 23 May 2020 21:21

The first professional casualty due to Covid I heard this evening. Couple of my friends have been given one month's notice. One is especially distraught as he recently had a baby and he is the sole earner. Given the industry he is in and the slump it is experiencing, the timing of losing a job sucks and chances of getting another job is almost nil for the next 6 months.

Frikkin Chinese & CCP. Its like the CCP allowed Covid to become a crisis and now they are standing first in line to profit of it. And worst part is, no apology or anything from CCP about mishandling the disease.

On May 22nd, I believe WHO convened to push a proposal to start an independent Global inquiry on Covid origins & its handling. Have not come across a single article after 22nd about status of the proposal.

Not hopeful, but I do hope that CCP is made to pay somehow for lot of personal & professional anguish & misery due to their mishandling.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 23 May 2020 21:31

There is no satisfying people. Let me list some of the things NDA did in the last 6 years.

1. GST which is the biggest the reform in taxation in our history.
2. Jan Dhan Yojana which removed a lot of middlemen.
3. Swacha Bharat and toilets - Many are simply ignoring this impact of these two things on common people.
4. Gas connections to the poor for free.
5. Reforms and better management of oil pricing.
6. DeMo benefits of which are still coming.
7. The formalisation of the economy by GST and other steps which while resulted in lot of pain for people who are otherwise habitual in doing things in cash.
8. Electrification of all India.
9. Stress on alternative power generations and reforms in power production and distribution.
10. Transparent auction of national resources.
11. NJAC which failed because of the SC but a long demanded steps from all the quarters.
12. Balakot/Uri action and robust response to the pakis whenever their tried to do any mischief on the LOC etc.
13. Great improvement of international relations.
14. Creation of six large banks
15. 370/35A removal and Creation of two UTs.
16. CAA
17. 3T law.

I think we can at least we can give a small amount of credit to BJP.

I am not even going for the last one year activities.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 23 May 2020 21:42

dinesh_kimar wrote:Many I've spoken to find Namo's handling of economy very (for want of better word) crappy. This sentiment is huge among MSMEs and industries.

Did your sources also indicate what is their bench marking criteria and how they feel Modi should have handled the economy? That would perhaps also gives us more indications on what these people actually want. For example; there are lots of businessmen who are very much convinced that black money and unethical business practices are a must for them to run the show and for a nation to prosper (in the long run).

The bad choices are present ministers of Finance, Education/HRD, Law, information and Broadcasting, people are unified in their irritation for these incumbents, across all sections of society.

On the bolded part, I agree with you. My bench mark criteria for I&B ministry was the way they dealt with unruly media houses. The way they handled two media houses who gave false reports on Delhi riots was the most convincing point for me. That this ministry and the minister will not be able to do any thing to stop the media from peddling lies. On the education front I still see that it is the 'leftists' who have an upper hand on educational policy. This again is going to cause more long term harm. In that way, I feel that BJP at times is still counting on poorer and uneducated strata of the society (whose chance of getting influenced by educational institutions and media houses are NIL; because they are poor and illiterate).

So don't disregard Nitish Kumar, or the UPA yet, 2024 is only 3 and a half years away, and people are going to seek an account for 10 years of governance with parliamentary majority.

In politics even a day is a big time. There could be real dumbos in BJP's current ministry but that does not mean that every one in the party are the same types. They still have a lot of time to play their game. Yes we do have folks like Nitish etc but we must still understand that the opposition parties are still in total disarray. The Maha-Thug-Bandhan is now not even spoken off.

Suresh S wrote:Unless Modi can achieve something extra ordinary in the coming 4 yrs I will consider him a failure.

What would be your benchmark of 'some thing extra ordinary'? I asked the other gentleman also the same question. The BJP being a political party will have its own cadre and foot soldiers who generally can get a pulse on the society. And perhaps BJP leadership knows exactly what is required for them to survive politically. So it could also be that BJP's sample data set (based on which they decide the strategy) could be way different from the sample data set of BR members and their informers. I don't think there is any one here who is very high in BJP & RSS leadership circle. Most of us still rely on main stream media to know things, and we all know how the main stream media is biased.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 May 2020 22:09

Suresh S wrote:Yesterday I did not sleep much in the night . I have been thinking about the direction and achievement of this BJP govt in last 6 yrs. I give them barely a 5-6 out of 10 on handling of economy and military matters .But if u take into account the extremely high expectations of people like me and others they score a fail on my report card. Than I just read a time pass comment above and seems some people agree with that thinking.

I will never vote for congis as they are traitors but BJP needs a change in leadership for India to march ahead. Unless Modi can achieve something extra ordinary in the coming 4 yrs I will consider him a failure. The only achievement worth noting are Ram Mandir and article 370 both very high on my emotional card but does little for the economy or military.

We are resource-constrained and so the forces have taken somewhat of a hit financially, so what. What else is there to do, under such exogenous circumstances. we are not the pakis who are brazenly giving a hike to their army at the cost of their poor citizens.

Every ministry has taken some sort of a hit and some of them have been given access to additional resources because the global economic scenario and the covid black swan has caused mayhem with many states actually adding fuel to the political fire to upset the Modi applecart.

Modi has not stopped a single agni missile test or induction, he has stared down single handed, both the cheenis and the amerikis, given the situation at doklam and the S-400 issue to which the amerikis all but threatened him with sanctions. Balakot, rafale, (in the face of intense ameriki pressure to buy the teens), staying out of the OBOR mess, 370, triple talaq etc.

All of these required big brown hairy testimonials which only he seems to have.

No other Indian politician would have spent his personal political currency to do so much.

It is because he has consistently delivered that we demand that he deliver even more. Did we ever have such expectations of any other Indian politico over these 70 plus years or are we ever likely to hopefully get that "someone else" who will miraculously come along who will deliver even more.

one has to be realistic, even while venting.

Suresh S · Post by **Suresh S** » 23 May 2020 22:17

If the only reason for a political party is to survive politically than I have nothing further to say.I expected this party to give this wounded civilization a new direction nothing less and yes 10 yrs are enough for that and in that sense they have failed my very high expectations. Ffor me Hindu civilization is the greatest civilization created by god nothing comes close by a mile.

To name a few things. Complete dismemberment of pakistan. Taking our lands from chinkis. Free Tibet. Make mount Kailash as part of India. Remove all constraints for Indian companies to grow exponentially. Take the unpopular steps of reigning in the damn bureaucrats(with exceptions granted) who in general are a road block to progress. let setting up of foreign companies be much more easy. Create a separate ministry for that (of course safe guards must be there). Stop paying lip service to domestic defense manufacture and step motherly Rx. Drip feeding the domestic manufacturers while spending billions on foreign military imports.Throw all traitors in the press , in the film industry and the peaceful community and any community including Hindus in Jail.

stop this Bakwas about sabka sath sabka biswas just like congis, garibi hatao nonsense. India is a Hindu nation and declare it as such. All communities are welcome to stay as long as they understand that and behave accordingly.

Change India,s name to BHARAT. I do not know any India or Hindustan, I only know Bharat and please do not ask me what is in a name.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 23 May 2020 22:22

Dinesh Kumarji, I'll admit i am struggling to understand the underlying rationale here. So UPA/INC has a stellar record of not only being the most corrupt among the governments this country has ever had but you admit they are also anti-national and anti-Hindu but pro-business ? If so what difference would it make if we allow ourselves to be colonized by the Chinese who are master capitalists but also anti-India and anti-Hindu ? Where i disagree even more is that UPA/INC were never pro-business either, definitely not in a way who build robust foundation for the nation's sustained development and long term growth. Heck, i'd go as far as to say had they continued for another 10 years not only would we have lost a good part of India, but we would have major business failures,banking failures, runaway hyperinflation and a full blown civil war.

This is the same INC which ruled India either directly or indirectly for 60 years keeping us at sub-saharan levels of poverty and human development index for most of our existence . The same party that ensured unemployment remained rampant and most industries were crushed out of existence through convoluted, preposterous socialist policies . We were chartbusters in global poverty and hunger rate where anywhere between 55% to 77% of Indians remained in abject poverty between 1947 to 2000, we were up there with many African nations in infant mortality for much of our existence.

As for the more recent UPA years, if i were to hazard sarcasm then i'd say the life under Sonia Amma, DK Shivkumar and INC was so good that we all remember their excellent population control policies through monthly bomb blasts, economic stimulus policies through yearly multi billion dollar scams, industrial policy through crony capitalism where ICOR went up from around 3.8 to 7 while savings rate dropped from 38% of gdp to 28%, bank NPAs went up to 110+ billion dollars, social development policies by promoting more NGOs in many districts than the number of policemen (not kidding), price support policy where average real inflation over 10 year period hovered well over 35%-40% PA, exceptional monetary policy where external debt rose 4 folds from around 110 billion to 430 billion dollars, a whooping 26x times increase in short term borrowing and a collapse in rupee valuation by over 60%. I can go on about how a 20 billion dollar surplus left by Vajapayee government in 2004 was turned into a 89 billion dollar external deficit and a cumulative 340+ billion dollar deficit during UPA that destroyed the rupee.

All this spending, indiscriminate loans,rampant double digit inflation would have been worth it had it been for the long term growth of the country, but no, instead it was used for spurring short term consumption,hollow infrastructure projects that had no intentions of being completed but were started to provide kickbacks to the elected leaders, capital goods imports that instead of increasing the capacity and productivity of local industries decreased it by double digits ! Its ironic that you mention wind turbines and their struggles, no one is denying that alternate energy producers are struggling not just in India but across the globe due to low energy prices. But remember, India moving from a fixed tariff based purchase to tenders has a lot to do with state electricity boards that needs lower energy cost to help keep them in business and a market driven mechanism helps achieve that objective. This is ofcourse not helpful to turbine manufacturers where tariffs guaranteed a return on their investment and in part subsidized their production, however it is beneficial to the buyer and end consumer. While we are on the topic lets not forget how UPA screwed over L&T,Suzlon, and state owned BHEL by allowing turbine imports from China on 0 duties !

In short, despite the lackluster growth in the last 24 months, the current government is the sort we need for long term sustained growth and development. You can never barter the security, the heritage, the history, the culture and long term economic and social well-being of a nation with short-term corruption fueled stimulus. Also remember that India is a federal structure, the central government can have the best intentions but its efforts wont bear fruits unless the state government also do their part. We live in a country where in many states people dont vote for jobs or infrastructure but vote for immediate freebies. Have patience and faith in the man and his government whom the nation has elected with absolute majority not once but twice, there are enough internal and external problems they are dealing with as is. The problems and hidden explosive mines left behind by the earlier governments is not something that can be solved in 5 years, he's spent his entire first term trying to fix the structural issues and is now hit with a pandemic. If history tells us anything then Modi is not the sort of a man who wastes a crisis, many changes are being brought in and more will follow. How much will he succeed only time will tell but claiming UPA was better than NDA is like saying i'd rather have a bullet in my head than a scar on my face.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 May 2020 22:23

Suresh S wrote:If the only reason for a political party is to survive politically than I have nothing further to say.I expected this party to give this wounded civilization a new direction nothing less and yes 10 yrs are enough for that and in that sense they have failed my very high expectations.

To name a few things. Complete dismemberment of pakistan. Taking our lands from chinkis. Free Tibet. Make mount Kailash as part of India. Remove all constraints for Indian companies to grow exponentially. Take the unpopular steps of reigning in the damn bureaucrats(with exceptions granted) who in general are a road block to progress. let setting up of foreign companies be much more easy. Create a separate ministry for that (of course safe guards must be there). Stop paying lip service to domestic defense manufacture and step motherly Rx. Drip feeding the domestic manufacturers while spending billions on foreign military imports.Throw all traitors in the press , in the film industry and the peaceful community and any community including Hindus in Jail.

stop this Bakwas about sabka sath sabka biswas just like congis, garibi hatao nonsense. India is a Hindu nation and declare it as such. All communities are welcome to stay as long as they understand that and behave accordingly.

Change India,s name to BHARAT. I do not know any India or Hindustan, I only know Bharat and please do not ask me what is in a name.

give it some time.

Modi is still at the table playing the high stakes game and neither you nor I know what cards he has been dealt but we know that time is still on his side for now and he has only just begun to play.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 23 May 2020 22:32

Suresh S wrote:
To name a few things. Complete dismemberment of pakistan. Taking our lands from chinkis. Free Tibet. Make mount Kailash as part of India. Remove all constraints for Indian companies to grow exponentially. Take the unpopular steps of reigning in the damn bureaucrats(with exceptions granted) who in general are a road block to progress. let setting up of foreign companies be much more easy. Create a separate ministry for that (of course safe guards must be there). Stop paying lip service to domestic defense manufacture and step motherly Rx. Drip feeding the domestic manufacturers while spending billions on foreign military imports.Throw all traitors in the press , in the film industry and the peaceful community and any community including Hindus in Jail.

stop this Bakwas about sabka sath sabka biswas just like congis, garibi hatao nonsense. India is a Hindu nation and declare it as such. All communities are welcome to stay as long as they understand that and behave accordingly.

Change India,s name to BHARAT. I do not know any India or Hindustan, I only know Bharat and please do not ask me what is in a name.

Sureshji, i'm sorry that you are disappointed by this government and its policies, but i am speechless if your expectations in 2014 was that Modi will dismember Pakistan , have a simultaneous war on China to take back part of Kashmir, free tibet, revolutionize domestic armament industry and manufacturers and throw everyone from media to bollywood into prison. Sir, he was elected on a democratic platform in a democratic country, its impractical to have such expectations.

nam · Post by **nam** » 23 May 2020 22:48

Point of matter is what was "growth" during the 2009-14, which most of the people liked was fundamentally funded by huge loans from PSU banks.

Most of our companies were "growing" using debt. This drove inflation and real estate prices, stylish airlines etc and everyone was happy. Look at Chota bhai's state today.

Someone was paying for all of these. And it was the PSU banks. Once the party ended in NPA, companies started going in to IBC, the supporting ecosystem failed.

No free money, no real estate growth,no black money in stock market, no demand! But we Indians get annoyed, when others call us a corrupt nation

Supporters of Congress have one simple ideology. Power. For some reason people of the Right don't seem to understand this simple concept.

"Modi did not shutdown NDTV, so I will vote Rahul gandhi ". Yet people voted Modi twice in to power despite "watching" NDTV for years.

nam · Post by **nam** » 23 May 2020 22:52

If we want Erdogan like character for India, be ready to become the next Turkey.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 23 May 2020 22:59

^^

We will get there ... being the next Turkey.
Just wait for the peaceful population to cross 30% - 35% mark.
Modi or no Modi.

Be careful what you wish for.
All this multi-cultural democracy crap is nice to hear as long as everyone contributes and pays equally.

kit · Post by **kit** » 23 May 2020 23:12

vimal wrote:
chetak wrote:is this proof enough that God indeed exists

Only a peaceful can take care of another one.

wonder if there is a video going around

kit · Post by **kit** » 23 May 2020 23:15

Suresh S wrote:If the only reason for a political party is to survive politically than I have nothing further to say.I expected this party to give this wounded civilization a new direction nothing less and yes 10 yrs are enough for that and in that sense they have failed my very high expectations. Ffor me Hindu civilization is the greatest civilization created by god nothing comes close by a mile.

To name a few things. Complete dismemberment of pakistan. Taking our lands from chinkis. Free Tibet. Make mount Kailash as part of India. Remove all constraints for Indian companies to grow exponentially. Take the unpopular steps of reigning in the damn bureaucrats(with exceptions granted) who in general are a road block to progress. let setting up of foreign companies be much more easy. Create a separate ministry for that (of course safe guards must be there). Stop paying lip service to domestic defense manufacture and step motherly Rx. Drip feeding the domestic manufacturers while spending billions on foreign military imports.Throw all traitors in the press , in the film industry and the peaceful community and any community including Hindus in Jail.

stop this Bakwas about sabka sath sabka biswas just like congis, garibi hatao nonsense. India is a Hindu nation and declare it as such. All communities are welcome to stay as long as they understand that and behave accordingly.

Change India,s name to BHARAT. I do not know any India or Hindustan, I only know Bharat and please do not ask me what is in a name.

India s name is already Bharat in the devanagri script. Just check any coin in your purse, assuming you are in India.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 23 May 2020 23:19

chetak wrote:Narasimha Rao was a unique politician and it will take many decades if ever, to find another nationalistic gem like him. He was quite satisfied with his lot before his vanvas was so rudely interrupted and he was dragged back to power and the centerstage and once there, he did what was necessary.

If any single politician actually deserves a national memorial in dilli, it is him.

he used whatever tool that was necessary and wasn't in the least squeamish in using whatever means necessary to sort out some really contentious issues.

Modi has the heart but not the intellectual firepower so he will take longer to achieve goals.

In 20 years Modi's going to be spoken of in glowing terms and whoever in charge then like Yogi dragged over hot coals like this

PVNR had the decisiveness lacking in several prior and subsequent governments. But he was in no way better than Modi is. He got certain long due things done, and he had the brain to obfuscate and let certain things happen without trying to get in the way much.

However he wasn't a good political leader, just a good politician who knew how to maneuver around the corridors of power. A political leader's job description is to express a message that gets his legacy the the mandate it needs to continue. PVNR was poor at messaging - he had no mass appeal and no ability to propagate his message. He was preceded by chaos, and followed by even more damaging chaos.

Modi on the other hand, is an able administrator (plenty of executed projects in Gujarat and national level basic services delivery in his first tenure), and the greatest political leader in India's history in terms of political appeal earned organically. Both of these are part of a PM level role job description - they need to do work, and they need to ensure they set the political space for that work to continue.

PVNR's chosen approach was to either not do something or couch himself in plausible deniability. He was the source of the popular quote 'not making a decision, itself is a decision'. He used to be roundly mocked in his time in the daily rags for indecisiveness and unwillingness to take hard decisions. He gets a lot of credit for taking a once in a lifetime opportunity to implement reforms in 1991-92 when the politics was just recovering from the Mandal revolving door PM era.

Modi doesn't obfuscate. He messages quite clearly, but chooses his own approach - Mann ki Baat being his chosen regular path. There's very little connection between the level of criticism he gets here, and the level of mandate he commands nationally, which is all that actually matters.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 May 2020 23:24

^^^^^^^

regarding PVNR, I don't agree with what you say

I think that he played his role admirably.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 23 May 2020 23:34

chetak wrote:^^^^^^^

regarding PVNR, I don't agree with what you say

I think that he played his role admirably.

I don't know if you used to read the papers of that era, but making fun of PVNR's indecisiveness was a cottage industry. Even the Hindu used to do that all the time and he was fodder for R K Laxman too.

A leader's job description is to build and consolidate his gains forward, not merely maneuver in whatever space he has. He didn't fulfil the job description, because he lacked the traits to accomplish it. His legacy took a decade to salvage because he was followed by political and economic chaos that detailed the liberalization process and weakened national institutions further.

PVNR was an able insider who ably maneuvered around his challenges while in power, but had no base to sustain it, not message it effectively to earn a repeated mandate. Compare that to Modi, who has demonstrated the attributes a leader needs to have.

I would not criticize PVNR because he maximized what could be accomplished within his own personal constraints, and the space he had. However, it's a mistake to confuse that with the record of a vastly superior political leader who has demontrated the ability to organically build and sustain political power.

In a workplace sense, PVNR's kind of work gets you a nice annual review and pay gain. Modi's kind of work gets him marked out for promotion track. They are two completely different creatures.

People see history with rose tinted glasses, but back in the 90s, PVNR was next only to the Fumble Harmer when it came to being the fodder of jokes.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 May 2020 23:44

For sure the BIF including Pappu's slaves are overplaying it, but they seem obsessed with the pain of migrants, and it could very well be another Rafale type obsession that back fires on them, or at least doesn't fetch them the electoral dividends they are hoping for.

It is funny how people start shedding fake tears for migrants, offer unsolicited BS on what ModiJi should do etc. Case in point are those ass hole Profs in US like Ashutosh Varshney sitting in plush green Brown university issue 'white papers' suggesting the appropriation of private wealth of people to 'help migrants'. And its even funnier that these chutiyas won't shed a penny of theirs. I have asked several chutiyas berating ModiJi on migrants as to how much they have donated for PM cares, Akshay Patra or any of the other orgs doing phenomenal work. And all I get is my BP-rising response: Oh somebody will eat my donation up. Bloody pompous idiots.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 May 2020 00:01

Suraj wrote:
chetak wrote:^^^^^^^

regarding PVNR, I don't agree with what you say

I think that he played his role admirably.
I don't know if you used to read the papers of that era, but making fun of PVNR's indecisiveness was a cottage industry. Even the Hindu used to do that all the time and he was fodder for R K Laxman too.

A leader's job description is to build and consolidate his gains forward, not merely maneuver in whatever space he has. He didn't fulfil the job description, because he lacked the traits to accomplish it. His legacy took a decade to salvage because he was followed by political and economic chaos that detailed the liberalization process and weakened national institutions further.

PVNR was an able insider who ably maneuvered around his challenges while in power, but had no base to sustain it, not message it effectively to earn a repeated mandate. Compare that to Modi, who has demonstrated the attributes a leader needs to have.

I would not criticize PVNR because he maximized what could be accomplished within his own personal constraints, and the space he had. However, it's a mistake to confuse that with the record of a vastly superior political leader who has demontrated the ability to organically build and sustain political power.

People see history with rose tinted glasses, but back in the 90s, PVNR was next only to the Fumble Harmer when it came to being the fodder of jokes.

his legacy was salvaged much later because the mafia family ensured that it was purposely sullied and defiled.

he was the butt of jokes because of the lootyens and the congi mafia family controlled liberandus and presstitutes, words that were not even in existence at the time of PVNR.

All this because PVNR was never amenable to a NAC type of puppeteering by the mafia that was enforced on MMS who willingly allowed himself to be blinded, blinkered and politically neutered.

PVNR was chosen, just like MMS was: a man without his own mass base who was dependent on the puppet mistress for his very survival. It turned out to be a bad call for her and her dynasty

His funeral was purposely arranged in such a way by YSR that there was not enough wood on the pyre for the body to be burned fully. This was done by a religious, allegedly compassionate, practicing, bible thumping roler who got his comeuppance later. the mafia was fully complicit in all this.

MMS was the only one who turned up at the congi party headquarters where even the gates were not allowed to be opened so that PVNR's body could, for a short while, lie in state for people to pay their respects. Scared congis did not even turn up to pay their respects. such was the fear of the wrath of the eyetalian mafia.

In fact, such is the fear of the wrath of the vengeful eyetalian mafia even today, when she is not in power.

Ayodhya could have quite easily gone the other way if not for PVNR's "masterly inaction" at the correct time.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 24 May 2020 00:38

Truth is its only us nationalists who look back and admire PVNR today. You ask a regular mango man on the street or a diehard congressi then PVNR was just another party loyalist who was one among 8 prime ministers India had in less than 10 years between 89 to 99. Looking back at some of the old articles by Sucheta Dalal or Swaminathan Aiyar from that era will there were 100x worse problems in India at that time in manufacturing, financial sector, labor, security, healthcare, agriculture etc. not because of PVNR but there weren't many policy decisions by his govt either to help solve some of these endemic structural issues. Remember many of the folks who sat on the planning commission those days were also directly or indirectly involved in many of the biggest scams of that period and in future INC scams. Yes, PVNR was a patriot, an incorruptible man, a party loyalist and a gandhian but he was no magician, and India certainly did not have a trouble free run between 1991-96. We always lookback at the past with rose tinted glasses.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 24 May 2020 00:44

chetak wrote:his legacy was salvaged much later because the mafia family ensured that it was purposely sullied and defiled.

he was the butt of jokes because of the lootyens and the congi mafia family controlled liberandus and presstitutes, words that were not even in existence at the time of PVNR.

This is the "it is the black cat's fault" argument. As Deng said, it doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, it only matters if it catches mice. We pay the price of the elected leadership's failure to implement policy and keep that policy stability in place.

You're making the mistake of comparing two people with radically different skill sets and judging one of them negatively. One was career New Delhi insider who took the chance he got to implement one thing, and avoid doing anything about another - both very good choices - and then was smart enough to know his own limits.

PVNR is closest to ABV in that regard, though ABV had leadership and base that PVNR lacked. Both had their legacies broken by weak continuity. Neither comes anywhere close to Modi's leadership skillset.

A leader needs to legislate and execute policy (since he heads both legislature and executive), set the groundwork within the political system to continue that policy set, and have the ability to keep the confidence of the populace at election. Long term change comes from leaders with that triple skill set. This is true anywhere - Deng in China, Tage Erlander in Sweden, Konrad Adenauer in Germany, and elsewhere.

It's the same as the example of the good worker who performs within his limitations, and the one who knows how to run the system and gets promoted. They're not comparable entities to begin with. The only Indian national leaders who demonstrated that skillset are JLN and IG, though neither built a base organically.

PVNR is an entirely different kind of PM, whose comparable peers are MMS and ABV, against whom he compares favourably. Arguably as good as ABV and way better than MMS. Perhaps MMS doesn't qualify in this category at all - his only calling card is that he served two full terms, at least on paper. But for that he gets to be compared with Fumble Harmer and IKG.