India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 16 Jun 2020 14:34

The Chinese foreign office seem to have released a statement warning India not take things for granted. That's now news is being played in Tamil media.

To hell with talks

chola · Post by **chola** » 16 Jun 2020 14:34

nam wrote:
chola wrote:Is the IAF in the air? If not then GOI wants to seriously deescalate.
Something I was arguing on tweetar tha GoI will not use IAF unless PLAAF is involved... despite thousands of article about need to involve IAF.

However artillery should be go off. The Galwan valley is very narrow... killing zone for artillery.

Artillery going off is instant kinetic war.

MKIs flying over the LAC is a sword hanging overhead that allows talks before going kinetic if talks are unsatisfactory.

Talks without IAF in air signals de-escalation as priority.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 16 Jun 2020 14:35

My guess is that it was a couple of chinese snipers aiming for the Indian colonel. Still no official statement of the nature of the chinese raid.

nam · Post by **nam** » 16 Jun 2020 14:36

somdev wrote:Since this was again a hand-to-hand combat without any guns, we should immediately raise a martial arts regiment with soldiers trained in Ninjutsu etc.specially for LAC. - a crack team of black belts of the highest dans. China might be having the same.

Oh come on. We don't have kung fu on LoC.

We shoot. Let the Chinese have their kung fu jokers.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Jun 2020 14:37

No snipers

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/after-3 ... -topscroll

Officer, 2 Soldiers Who Were Killed In Ladakh Were Not Shot: Army Sources

chola · Post by **chola** » 16 Jun 2020 14:37

nvishal wrote:My guess is that it was a couple of chinese snipers aiming for the Indian colonel. Still no official statement of the nature of the chinese raid.

Unlikely. If Colonel was killed by firearms then the IA would be fighting in earnest. No talks. No way.

nam · Post by **nam** » 16 Jun 2020 14:39

I doubt any side want to full war, this means there will be attempts to deescalate. So I not sure if there will be any counter action...

The only thing against this theory is this news became public. If both side wanted.. they could have hidden it..

RajaRudra · Post by **RajaRudra** » 16 Jun 2020 14:39

chola wrote:
nam wrote:
Something I was arguing on tweetar tha GoI will not use IAF unless PLAAF is involved... despite thousands of article about need to involve IAF.

However artillery should be go off. The Galwan valley is very narrow... killing zone for artillery.
Artillery going off is instant kinetic war.

MKIs flying over the LAC is a sword hanging overhead that allows talks before going kinetic if talks are unsatisfactory.

Talks without IAF in air signals de-escalation as priority.

Before any talks, there should be a real revenge. Hope that is already served then and there..

Mollick.R · Post by **Mollick.R** » 16 Jun 2020 14:41

'No Unilateral Actions, Don't Stir Up Trouble': China After Indian Army Officer, Soldiers Killed In Ladakh
Outlook Web Bureau16 June 2020

After an Indian army officer and two soldiers were killed at the Galwan Valley in Ladakh, China "calls on India to not take unilateral actions or stir up trouble", reported news agency Reuters.

Chinese officials also accused India of crossing border and "attacking Chinese personnel."

The violent face-off between Indian and Chinese military took place along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Ladakh region amid the heightened tensions over the border dispute between the two countries.

"During de-escalation process in Galwan Valley, a violent face-off took place last night with casualties. The loss of lives on Indian side includes an officer and two soldiers. Senior military officials of the two sides are currently meeting at the venue to defuse the situation," an Indian Army spokesperson said.

Also Read | It's No Ordinary India-China Standoff This Time. Tensions At LAC Won't Dissipate That Easily

A large number of Indian and Chinese troops were engaged in an eyeball-to-eyeball situation in Galwan Valley for the last five weeks.

The incident comes days after Indian Army Chief Gen MM Naravane said both sides have begun disengaging from Galwan Valley.

https://www.outlookindia.com/website/st ... akh/354837

jpremnath · Post by **jpremnath** » 16 Jun 2020 14:42

nam wrote:
chola wrote:Is the IAF in the air? If not then GOI wants to seriously deescalate.
Something I was arguing on tweetar tha GoI will not use IAF unless PLAAF is involved... despite thousands of article about need to involve IAF.

Why are we always 'reacting'..?.Be it against the pakis or against the Chinese..We do so and so only when they does something? Why don't we ever take control of the escalation ladder? Who is scared? The forces.? Or the Political leadership?
We lost lives on our side and are now praying for de-escalation?

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 16 Jun 2020 14:42

One of those clashes that we keep witnessing in videos from the LAC was bound to result in something serious. I fear if the GoI does not respond adequately in every sphere (including Naval) then the commanders at local level would be compelled to take matters into their own hands, just like the LoC under congress rule.

Time to stand up to the bully and keep the morale high. Nothing matters more for those men than the backing of the government and the morale of the nation.

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 16 Jun 2020 14:47

I hope and pray we give them a bloody nose right now. A CO and 2 jawans being killed and "talks" going on....

Who the hell in in-charge of press releases ? The first one didn't even mention casualties on the chineese side and the edit later makes it look like a pathetic attempt to shore up public mood.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 16 Jun 2020 14:48

Aditya_V wrote:No snipers

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/after-3 ... -topscroll

Officer, 2 Soldiers Who Were Killed In Ladakh Were Not Shot: Army Sources

This is partly why the word of the indian military is doubted by Indians themselves. They will reveal 10% info each for the next 10 weeks. Same thing happened in balakot and people still doubt whether an f16 was downed at all. Lot of nerds occupying indian ranks who freeze up because they can't figure out what to do.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 16 Jun 2020 14:48

This is a premeditated attack on a Colonel after a JCO punched a Chinese Colonel in Sikkim two months back. They had planned the attack with iron rods, and batons with nails and stones. We need to take out two of their officers.

nam · Post by **nam** » 16 Jun 2020 14:53

The first bullet was getting fired. Either now or in 2 months or in 2 years. It just happened earlier than we thought.

As I kept saying the Chini will get to fire bullet.

So if I as armchair joker knows it, I hope people in the top have war gamed it.

It was a question of time. Now let's see what do we do.

chola · Post by **chola** » 16 Jun 2020 14:53

Five PLA killed.

https://mobile.twitter.com/chavanp6/sta ... 9453646850

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 16 Jun 2020 14:54

sajaym wrote:Very sad. The GOI and the IA need to take this incident as an opportunity to convert the LAC into a 'hot border' like the LOC with Pakistan. I'm not recommending artillery booming and missiles streaking right away, but we can definitely start with a few sniper shots & mortar rounds interlaced with chai biskoot talks.

The more we keep trying to keep things quite on the LAC, the more the Chinks will continue with salami slicing. Only once they realize that their salamis will also be sliced if they try salami slicing, can the sanctity of the LAC be maintained.

I was thinking along the same lines, this no shooting business will only be detrimental to the side that is just trying to maintain status quo (i.e. us).

chola · Post by **chola** » 16 Jun 2020 14:56

I'll say this: the sticks and stones business makes things much harder to escalate.

The previous IA/PLA leadership who negotiated the stance intended this.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 16 Jun 2020 14:58

chola wrote:I'll say this: the sticks and stones business makes things much harder to escalate.
The previous IA/PLA leadership who negotiated the stance intended this.

Sticks and stones also mean that their economy being 12T makes zilch of a difference the outcome of a fight. It's not such a bad thing for us, provided we have the right training, basic gear (clothes, helmets, shoes) and intent to deliver a bloody punch.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 16 Jun 2020 15:01

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/army-of ... kh-2247034
Colonel, 2 Soldiers Killed in Ladakh Face Off, Casualties "On Both Sides": 10 Points
Army sources say the soldiers were not shot but were killed in hand-to-hand combat on Indian Territory.
All IndiaEdited by Deepshikha Ghosh Updated: June 16, 2020
New Delhi: An Indian colonel and two soldiers were killed in a "violent face-off" on Monday night with Chinese soldiers at Galwan Valley in Ladakh, in a massive escalation at a time there were efforts to defuse weeks of tension at the border. India retaliated and there were casualties on both sides, said the army. Army sources say the soldiers were not shot but were killed in a physical fight on Indian Territory that involved stones and batons. Major Generals of both sides are meeting currently, according to an official statement. This is the first violent incident involving fatalities in decades between India and China, who fought a brief border war in 1962.
......
Gautam

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 16 Jun 2020 15:02

chola wrote:Five PLA killed.
https://mobile.twitter.com/chavanp6/sta ... 9453646850

It's from some poor quality Indian TV channel screen grab that has been liked in the twitter feed of this global times correspondent. There is no evidence of this number, and my feeling is that we will never know how many.

chola · Post by **chola** » 16 Jun 2020 15:06

yensoy wrote:
chola wrote:I'll say this: the sticks and stones business makes things much harder to escalate.
The previous IA/PLA leadership who negotiated the stance intended this.
Sticks and stones also mean that their economy being 12T makes zilch of a difference the outcome of a fight. It's not such a bad thing for us, provided we have the right training, basic gear (clothes, helmets, shoes) and intent to deliver a bloody punch.

True overall. Though along the LAC we own the advantages in gear and numbers. Especially in the air.

If a Colonel and two jawans were shot then there is little doubts that there would be general fighting and much bloodshed.

Disappointed because it limits our response yet a bit in awe that two nuclear powers can negotiate sticks and stones conditions and abide by it even when violence led to the level of death.

nam · Post by **nam** » 16 Jun 2020 15:08

yensoy wrote:
chola wrote:Five PLA killed.
https://mobile.twitter.com/chavanp6/sta ... 9453646850
It's from some poor quality Indian TV channel screen grab that has been liked in the twitter feed of this global times correspondent. There is no evidence of this number, and my feeling is that we will never know how many.

Doesn't matter. It has already spread.... Just like "5000 PLA troops invading"

One advantage we have, we can drive the narrative on SM. The Chinese blocked tweeter.. it is their loss.

The Chinis are already in the news for being the invader. We now tell the world, they are shooting and we are defending..

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 16 Jun 2020 15:09

Shiv Aroor is reporting on Twitter that there are 3 or more causalties on Chinese side as well

nam · Post by **nam** » 16 Jun 2020 15:10

The jokers at GT indirectly confirmed it..

gauravsh · Post by **gauravsh** » 16 Jun 2020 15:12

schinnas wrote:This is a premeditated attack on a Colonel after a JCO punched a Chinese Colonel in Sikkim two months back. They had planned the attack with iron rods, and batons with nails and stones. We need to take out two of their officers.

+100
There is no way you get to kill a colonel in a fist fight. He is the "CO". Given the position and respect he holds, soldiers will kill anyone who lays hands on their CO. It was a premediated attack targetting the colonel.

chola · Post by **chola** » 16 Jun 2020 15:12

nam wrote:The jokers at GT indirectly confirmed it..

They dost protest too much. Probably large PLA casualties.

nam · Post by **nam** » 16 Jun 2020 15:15

Another GT boy confirming ... Irrespective of the numbers, we need to kick these jokers out of occupied areas.
https://twitter.com/HuXijin_GT/status/1 ... 3225626624

RajaRudra · Post by **RajaRudra** » 16 Jun 2020 15:17

chola wrote:
nam wrote:The jokers at GT indirectly confirmed it..

They dost protest too much. Probably large PLA casualties.

SIr, Should we quote/refer GLOBAL TIMES. Its a tabloid propaganda tool of PLA directly...

nam · Post by **nam** » 16 Jun 2020 15:18

As I said.... the 5 reported PLA dead has spread....

India slaughters 5 Chinese soldiers in bloody massacre- border tensions erupt

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/12 ... red-Ladakh

Karna · Post by **Karna** » 16 Jun 2020 15:19

gauravsh wrote:
schinnas wrote:This is a premeditated attack on a Colonel after a JCO punched a Chinese Colonel in Sikkim two months back. They had planned the attack with iron rods, and batons with nails and stones. We need to take out two of their officers.
+100
There is no way you get to kill a colonel in a fist fight. He is the "CO". Given the position and respect he holds, soldiers will kill anyone who lays hands on their CO. It was a premediated attack targetting the colonel.

Exactly. This is intended to drive home a message. Again we dont know what was our strength on the ground. Was it a platoon strength, company strength..

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jun 2020 15:19

Whether the deaths happened because our bravehearts were clubbed or stone to death or fired to death is immaterial. If we can't club a few Chinese officers and soldiers to death, we must resort to firing. This defensive mindset that our response would be only proportional needs to go away.

chola · Post by **chola** » 16 Jun 2020 15:20

nam wrote:As I said.... the 5 reported PLA dead has spread....

India slaughters 5 Chinese soldiers in bloody massacre- border tensions erupt
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/12 ... red-Ladakh

This is starting off better than Balakot, I must say.

India slaughters 5 Chinese soldiers

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Jun 2020 15:23

Dont care about headlines, but the gloves are off, we must try and move the LAC eastwards, must be ready for escalation. The Chinese clearly are underestimating us by this constant provocation.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 16 Jun 2020 15:23

gauravsh wrote:
schinnas wrote:This is a premeditated attack on a Colonel after a JCO punched a Chinese Colonel in Sikkim two months back. They had planned the attack with iron rods, and batons with nails and stones. We need to take out two of their officers.
+100
There is no way you get to kill a colonel in a fist fight. He is the "CO". Given the position and respect he holds, soldiers will kill anyone who lays hands on their CO. It was a premediated attack targetting the colonel.

Yes. You can't harm the CO of unit and get away with it. His men won't wait for someone else to authorise retaliation.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jun 2020 15:23

MEA must go into an overdrive exposing the so-called cunning 'wolf warriors'. Already, the Chinese Foreign Ministry has issued a warning to India not to stir up. Instead, we should have been the first one to have fired the shot.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 16 Jun 2020 15:24

Guys, stop peddling gossip and wait for an official response.

If the col was killed, that means it was a raid.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 16 Jun 2020 15:25

We lost a Col., CO of an infantry batallion.The dastardly Chins would've singled him out,why in retrospect after the IPKF's experience in SL, officers were picked off by LTTE snipers and later on rank insignia on epaulettes were removed. We should do the same when facing the intestinal shitworms of the Chins. And if they return with nailed clubs again, let our rifles do the talking. Past time for slaughtering Chinko pigs for their perfidy.
Let the IAF and IN carry out tri-service joint ops when the balloon goes up.

As for dpl. measures,nothing less than the expulsion of the Chinko envoy and a goodly part of his entourage suffice,along with an invitation to the Taiwanese govt. to exchange envoys.

PS: The president of Tibet-in-exile was interviewedon achannel.He said to understand what is happening is to understand what happened to Tibet.
Chairman Mao is reported to have said after the " take-away" of Tibet, in Chinese ,the equivalent of : " Next are the 5 fingers. Ladakh,Nepal,Bhutan,Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh."

We must remember that the Chinese plan to achieve their goals in a long timeframe,not in weeks,months or years,but in decades and centuries. They have openly stated that by 2040 they should be the equal of the USN,that by being the most powerful navy on the planet they will be dominate the world, ⁸encircling India on land with a string of bases in the mountains protecting its land route to Pak anda string of pearls,naval bases and logistic facilities at sea inthe India ocean,encircling us both on land and at sea.Pak must be simply viewed as a Chinese province, from now on,its military might added to that of China. While we cannot match the scope and speed of the Chinese juggernaut,we can take innovative measures to reduce the gap by immovative military acquisitions and bold diplomacy.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 16 Jun 2020 15:26

https://mobile.twitter.com/OmarAbdullah ... 7783010304

An example of hoping to how people don't get to put oil in fire. A lotta miscreant and on hire accounts running amok from sidelines waiting to pounce on unsuspecting folks.

Larry Walker · Post by **Larry Walker** » 16 Jun 2020 15:34

I see a news scroll that PM and DM will updates CM's in a VC later today, not sure of veracity of the news or whether it was a scheduled interaction or something called in urgency. If true, then situation is more serious than what is currently reported.