India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Pashupatastra · Post by **Pashupatastra** » 19 Jun 2020 02:21

ramana wrote:All the naysayers are in that business.
All fingers means all fingers.

I don't type waste words.
Can check my 20 years on Forum.
Iyersan, Col Babu did fighting like a legend.

Won't see such a warrior in a few generations.
nam screw the naysayers.
Govt is not in the business of pressers.
Sick of all these OSINT folks who want to imitate Mihir Shah without the finesse.

Forces are matched , the willpower is matched , the armaments are matched. The war will be won on political leadership.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 19 Jun 2020 02:25

Mods/Folks: Can the discussion on chinese imports, products etc be taken to the thread strategic form? Thanks.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 19 Jun 2020 02:25

MeshaVishwas wrote:
VikramS wrote:All the people doing Rona Dhona on the non use of fire arms.

Imagine if the LAC was also like the LOC?

How many men could go down?
What is the risk of a local incident leading to escalation?
Please enough with this, this is not defensible.

What is not defensible?

The no use of firearms rule has led to almost no deaths. It does not stop IA from challenging PLA patrols.

The question is of political will and military capacity to assert Indian perceptions of LAC.

We know that the salami slicing has been going on for a long time. (eg:640 sq Km during UPA-2)

Now India has increased the pace of construction along the border and also started a focus on domestic arms.

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 19 Jun 2020 02:33

nam wrote:I say it again, GoI should do a presser with the satellite images of PLA build up at Finger 4. Show the before & after images.

Tell the world it has changed the status quo. China CANNOT claim this place under it's control.

That is the whole point. There is nothing to prove Finger 4 was under Chinese control.

And say what, we don't have the balls to push them back? no one in the world will give a rat's a$$ - we have to fight our own battles and given that we refused to fight this one, our situation has been assessed, internally, as not yet ready. No worries, 20 years of economic growth, much like Chinki Lizard, jab apna time ayeaga they'll learn the lesson.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 19 Jun 2020 02:35

This has been a massive 100 decibel wake up call to India. All modernization, procurement and expansion projects for all 3 services should be placed on a war footing. In the confrontation with China this has been in the overall scheme of things a small skirmish. Hopefully many lessons have been learnt. In the coming years it will be a confrontation across the full spectrum of air, land, sea, space, cyber,media, industry and R&D arenas in the years to come.

gauravsh · Post by **gauravsh** » 19 Jun 2020 02:36

If the pre april status quo is not restored, how will the GoI defend it ? It's a serious loss of face for them. Chinese backstabbing or whatever, if we lose our claim to our perceived LAC who is to blame ?

khan · Post by **khan** » 19 Jun 2020 02:36

VikramS wrote:
MeshaVishwas wrote: Please enough with this, this is not defensible.
What is not defensible?

The no use of firearms rule has led to almost no deaths. It does not stop IA from challenging PLA patrols.

The question is of political will and military capacity to assert Indian perceptions of LAC.

We know that the salami slicing has been going on for a long time. (eg:640 sq Km during UPA-2)

Now India has increased the pace of construction along the border and also started a focus on domestic arms.

The ROE makes sense in some contexts - but not others.

Within the context of two patrols meeting in some on some god-forsaken hill-top in the middle of nowhere, it makes absolute sense to keep things safe & predictable.

But when the Chinese are squatting & changing the Status Quo - IMO it makes no sense. It has to be reworked to impose costs for this type of behavior.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 19 Jun 2020 02:36

India is surrounded by enemies that have no H&D. We should never make the mistake of assuming that they do hereafter.

I'm sure our adversaries doctrines are getting updated to include "capture POWs as quickly and as many as you can".

If we think we won in this round, we will not learn. If we do not learn, we will not adapt and evolve. If we don't do that we cannot prevail. For that, and that reason only, I'd consider we were outsmarted.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 19 Jun 2020 02:43

I know our weakest link is the PR and the chinese are masters of propaganda , so expect "leaks" of the captives in days and weeks to come.

bharathp · Post by **bharathp** » 19 Jun 2020 02:43

well, this has been a wake up call for me.
I was , and am still hoping for a face saver from GoI. atleast a token fight.

bharathp · Post by **bharathp** » 19 Jun 2020 02:46

Ambar wrote:I know our weakest link is the PR and the chinese are masters of propaganda , so expect "leaks" of the captives in days and weeks to come.

how come both TSP and China are both masters of propaganda? there is something else to it. are we not strong enough to fight them and retaliate now? june 19th 5 PM is the all party meet.
I still have my hopes pinned to that.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 19 Jun 2020 02:49

I too think this will peter out, with acceptance of new status quo, happy to be corrected though (and will happily contribute to the fund too). Before we were wondering what leverage we had in the talks, turns out they had all the cards (unless there are other surprises).

Pashupatastra · Post by **Pashupatastra** » 19 Jun 2020 02:50

If we go to war then PoWs are expected on both sides. If govt. has waited for 2 days for negotiating release of our defence personnel , then the position is already weakened. It would have been better if another counterattack had been mounted including airforce fighters to give a riposte. At the same time govt. could have given the same threat of targeting cities using missiles as done for Pakistan. When the adversary is larger in size , firepower ,economic development then the strategy of playing an unpredictable maniac like Kim Jong Un works.

nam · Post by **nam** » 19 Jun 2020 02:51

Raveen wrote:
And say what, we don't have the balls to push them back? no one in the world will give a rat's a$$ - we have to fight our own battles and given that we refused to fight this one, our situation has been assessed, internally, as not yet ready. No worries, 20 years of economic growth, much like Chinki Lizard, jab apna time ayeaga they'll learn the lesson.

A nation which has been under constant war is afraid of fighting an army which has not fired a bullet in 40 years? and an airforce which has not shot anything for 60 years?

Letting the world know what we are fighting for will make it China versus the rest of the world. Just like we did with Pak in Kargil..

Our adversaries are not stupid to let us growth economically & militarily before making a move..

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 19 Jun 2020 02:53

Democracies are predictable, dictatorships are not.

gauravsh · Post by **gauravsh** » 19 Jun 2020 02:53

ldev wrote:This has been a massive 100 decibel wake up call to India. All modernization, procurement and expansion projects for all 3 services should be placed on a war footing. In the confrontation with China this has been in the overall scheme of things a small skirmish. Hopefully many lessons have been learnt. In the coming years it will be a confrontation across the full spectrum of air, land, sea, space, cyber,media, industry and R&D arenas in the years to come.

We can buy all the shiny toys we want, they are all useless if don't have the will. Hope i am wrong about this.

Larry Walker · Post by **Larry Walker** » 19 Jun 2020 02:54

Since I am not privy to sources or contacts, it is first time I am hearing of this entire chain-of-events. But then I am wondering whether Shaolin swords and spears are part of PLA standard issue weapons ? Entire action from Chinese side was well planned and choreographed - the only saving grace was that the indomitable spirit of Major Shaitan Singh arose the Indian jawans and they let a bayonet charge into the enemy camp. This would have been totally incalculated by Chinese. Had our lion hearts not charged - what would have been the situation in the morning ? 20+ Indian soldiers killed and more number in Chinese captivity. Imagine what kind of concessions we would have to.agree to to get them released when entire country would have hysterical spams to get them released - imagine how BIF would have used this situation. Now understand that all this was gamed and planned, except for the bayonet charge of our lion-hearts. What does this tell me - snatch initiative and slay the lizard since they will not show a modicum of decency or stick to any agreements when they think the opportunity is right. This was a planned aggression by Chinese across an entire front with intent to kill and capture Indian soldiers and use them as bargaining chips - ofcourse without using firearms - to humiliate us and our army. This requires revenge.

nam · Post by **nam** » 19 Jun 2020 02:54

The recent satellite images from Galwan valley seem to indicate the Chinis are extending their road, towards PP14.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ea0ofuWUYAA ... =4096x4096

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 19 Jun 2020 02:59

Sir one way to do this is to set duties high give the erstwhile cooker manufacturers a chance to compete and then progressively lower the duties as competitiveness increases. Additionally, someone from the retail industry needs to put out the specs that they desire and have manufacturers apply. MSEZs can be carved out on warfooting where the factory owners can maximize productivity and deliver these products to the retailers in time.

BTW, salutes to our lion hearts but if possible they should have dragged a few PLA soldiers as captives. They can always hide the dead but not the captives being held by us.

samirdiw · Post by **samirdiw** » 19 Jun 2020 03:00

Raveen wrote:And say what, we don't have the balls to push them back?

Thats a good point. Why dont we have the balls to push them back?

Vietnamese fought back against the US all the while when steel and napalm was raining from the sky in the thousands while fighting against half their country and here we cannot even fight against a few vehicles amassed in a line like at a petrol bunk.

When is the next round of talks? Maybe we should ask the Chinese..they will know when they plan to attack next so it will probably be the day after. They should probably book in advance the meeting place for our ecm.

abhishekbit · Post by **abhishekbit** » 19 Jun 2020 03:02

Kati wrote:
Suraj wrote: NRao's argument is the same as 'it's an inhospitable terrain where not a blade of grass grows' . Nehruvian like in lack of understanding of value.

Out of that seemingly small percentage, we give them their third biggest trade surplus, not counting HK which is basically a transshipment port for them. The biggest is US, and the second is EU combined. Two entities with nominal GDPs 5x of ours .

China surplus:
1. USA $275 billion
2. EU $180 billion
3. India $60 billion

We're an enormous source of cheap wealth gain for them. Think the Chinese don't care ? I'll very happily take a bet for how they respond if we cut $50 billion of that trade imbalance a year.

NRao's bet: they won't care, they can find $60 billion behind their sofa easily
My bet: they'll start conciliatory talk and beg a long time before the deficit is cut by $50 billion
Sir, how do we take this argument to the big retailers?
I see about 90% os the wares in Big Bazar are from China. All the cheap equipments (rice cooker, iron, etc) under the "Koroyo" brand are essentially Chinese made by the NoKo labor. Can we start a signature campaign to name and shame these big retailers? In Bharat publicly naming and shaming is a big thing, and these retailers can be put on spot for importing from the aggressor who are killing our jawans.

Koroyo is a Taiwanese company.

Src: https://gadgets.ndtv.com/tv/koryo-led-tv

bharathp · Post by **bharathp** » 19 Jun 2020 03:04

should we not expect some form of retaliation now? isnt that the reason why we see such high chinese build up? to prevent our retaliation?

if this stops here, there will be serious issues on the credibility of our next confrontation. or even on our ability. this will embolden adversarial attitude in nepal/BD towards India.

nam · Post by **nam** » 19 Jun 2020 03:05

Full details of Galwan fight with Satellite images

https://graphics.reuters.com/INDIA-CHIN ... index.html

The Chinis set up position right on the LAC and attacked us when we went to remove their tent.

We were not on the Chinese side.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 19 Jun 2020 03:05

khan wrote:
VikramS wrote:
What is not defensible?

The no use of firearms rule has led to almost no deaths. It does not stop IA from challenging PLA patrols.

The question is of political will and military capacity to assert Indian perceptions of LAC.

We know that the salami slicing has been going on for a long time. (eg:640 sq Km during UPA-2)

Now India has increased the pace of construction along the border and also started a focus on domestic arms.
The ROE makes sense in some contexts - but not others.

Within the context of two patrols meeting in some on some god-forsaken hill-top in the middle of nowhere, it makes absolute sense to keep things safe & predictable.

But when the Chinese are squatting & changing the Status Quo - IMO it makes no sense. It has to be reworked to impose costs for this type of behavior.

The use of weapons is a military choice to fulfill some political goals.

In this case the de-escalation talks had been going on, and the IA was enforcing the agreement.

What the Chinese did was to try give the IA a bloody nose by challenging the lightly armed patrols.

Amost simultaneously , PLA assault troops armed with swords, spears, iron roads wrapped in barbed wire and other lethal weapons attacked multiple Indian patrols lightly armed with sticks and iron rods.

Also given that the dead are from multiple units and not just the Bihar Regiment confirms that multiple Indian patrols were ambushed.

What they did not account for is the fight back by the men and junior officers after the CO was lost. It was the tradition and valor of the soldiers which saved the day. As reports indicate, they entered Chinese camps. This is pretty much consistent with what ldev had written that very likely IA came back at the PLAGF after their initial ambush.

The Chinese deaths were mostly inside their positions which faced the angry Indian retaliatory assaults past midnight on Monday

https://theeasternlink.com/un-chief-urg ... dia-clash/

Unconfirmed reports also say a landslide hit a Chinese camp on a lower ground after a ‘cloudburst’ that sounded like a huge explosion in the wee hours of Tuesday and buried many PLA soldiers alive.

Luck favors the brave! Maybe the explosion was not act of God!

nam · Post by **nam** » 19 Jun 2020 03:10

chola · Post by **chola** » 19 Jun 2020 03:12

If this true and they have released 10 jawans including officers then we are in de-escalation mode.

Forget it. If we make a move now, it would be something extraordinarily unpredictable that our nation will never do because of our honor. We are simply unlike the pakis and chinis. When got Abhi back we de-escalated and accepted the F-16 as the victory. Now with the prisoners back, we will de-escalate and accept the 43 as out victory.

I hope, truly hope, we will do something out-of-the-box and go air strike if not a general land attack along the LaC. But I know it is unlikely. I sound like an emotional idiot but that's how I feel. You'll be seeing a lot less of me. Completely drained. No sleep for days. Hoping.

Larry Walker · Post by **Larry Walker** » 19 Jun 2020 03:15

Also, if they have not moved back from any of their advance positions, it implies that all talks and negotiations and agreements were treachery and they never planned to vacate but rather entrap Indian soldiers as pow and forcefully change status-quo and humiliate Modi and Indian armed forces. This plan would have been run through and approved by XiPing. China is the bigger Pakistan now.

Singbhai · Post by **Singbhai** » 19 Jun 2020 03:16

NRao wrote:
Suraj wrote: Oh yes, lets keep giving them $60 billion of our wealth every year. Why bother. It's only xx percent right ?

Please stop your nonsense.

That is certainly one way to look at it - give them $60 billion. The other is that does it matter to them. They will get that $60 billion from some other way, granted from someone else, not India. Besides that, India would still be spending those $60 billion elsewhere - due to the addiction you yourself mentioned.

I would prefer India look at how to grab their export markets. That would help India and hurt China.

Sir, by the same virtue, Write off CPEC shouldn't bother them either. After all their total investment on CPEC seems to be of a similar number. The strategic benefit of access to Arabian Sea aside...

khan · Post by **khan** » 19 Jun 2020 03:17

VikramS wrote:The use of weapons is a military choice to fulfill some political goals.

In this case the de-escalation talks had been going on, and the IA was enforcing the agreement.

What the Chinese did was to try give the IA a bloody nose by challenging the lightly armed patrols.

My point was more general. If the Chinese violate agreements by building camps/roads etc in disputed territory, India doesn’t need to respect any agreements to not use firearms to dislodge them.

This is probably an oversimplification, but some changes to the ROE need to be made.

Larry Walker · Post by **Larry Walker** » 19 Jun 2020 03:22

chola wrote:If this true and they have released 10 jawans including officers then we are in de-escalation mode.

Forget it. If we make a move now, it would be something extraordinarily unpredictable that our nation will never do because of our honor. We are simply unlike the pakis and chinis. When got Abhi back we de-escalated and accepted the F-16 as the victory. Now with the prisoners back, we will de-escalate and accept the 43 as out victory.

I hope, truly hope, we will do something out-of-the-box and go air strike if not a general land attack along the LaC. But I know it is unlikely. I sound like an emotional idiot but that's how I feel. You'll be seeing a lot less of me. Completely drained. No sleep for days. Hoping.

The "swift retreat" by Pakis did not cause any men or material casualty within our borders, except for Abhi doing the ghar-mein-ghus-ke-mara program and losing MiG-21 in the bargain. The Chinese almost got through their game-plan of taking pow and then asking India to pull further back as concessions for their release and humiliate India. And they did manage to kill 20+ of our bravehearts - the men they lost were not part of their calculus - it was because of sheer indominitable spirit of our men.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 19 Jun 2020 03:31

Why do we think we didnt pick up prisoners from their camps ? Given their treachery it is possible that both sides picked up a few and decided to silently exchange ?

Sumair · Post by **Sumair** » 19 Jun 2020 03:33

ramana wrote:Iyersan Want to bet?
OK.
All these jingos put $100$ to be donated to Army Jawans Welfare fund if GOI does fight back.

How many of the experts here willing to take this on?

Sir please set up the mechanism. I would like to donate.

nam · Post by **nam** » 19 Jun 2020 03:37

chola wrote:If this true and they have released 10 jawans including officers then we are in de-escalation mode.

Forget it. If we make a move now, it would be something extraordinarily unpredictable that our nation will never do because of our honor. We are simply unlike the pakis and chinis. When got Abhi back we de-escalated and accepted the F-16 as the victory. Now with the prisoners back, we will de-escalate and accept the 43 as out victory.

I hope, truly hope, we will do something out-of-the-box and go air strike if not a general land attack along the LaC. But I know it is unlikely. I sound like an emotional idiot but that's how I feel. You'll be seeing a lot less of me. Completely drained. No sleep for days. Hoping.

The Chinis are still at the lake.

That is a clear status quo change. GoI will not be allowed to overlook that change... The previous gov fundamentally hid the previous land grab.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Jun 2020 03:40

Folks please adhere to following guidelines required to be laid down.
- All non military options should be in the Strat Forum thread on China. This thread is strictly for the border situation.
- And any whine either here or there will lead to a ban.

Adv8ce: You really should seek therapy and not dump here.

Thanks, Ramana

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 19 Jun 2020 03:44

chola wrote:If this true and they have released 10 jawans including officers then we are in de-escalation mode.

Forget it. If we make a move now, it would be something extraordinarily unpredictable that our nation will never do because of our honor. We are simply unlike the pakis and chinis. When got Abhi back we de-escalated and accepted the F-16 as the victory. Now with the prisoners back, we will de-escalate and accept the 43 as out victory.

I hope, truly hope, we will do something out-of-the-box and go air strike if not a general land attack along the LaC. But I know it is unlikely. I sound like an emotional idiot but that's how I feel. You'll be seeing a lot less of me. Completely drained. No sleep for days. Hoping.

I feel you. I sleep terribly as is but the last 48 hours has taken a terrible toll on me, i am glad covid means i can work from home unshaved, with blood shot eyes and crazy hair. As much as we are emotional about our military and our nation, the hard fact is war should always be the last option but an option nonetheless. China has never encountered a India that gives a damn about their gdp or their supposed military might and refuses to roll over and walk quietly into the dark. So accustomed are they to encroach, put structures and claim it was always theirs that they thought they can continue the process with no fight back. First at Doklum and now in Galwan they seen a new India that can punch back ( and quite literally ). If finger 4 to 8 had a road leading to the chinese camp since 1999 then its unlikely they would move out. They also know what happens in future when they try their salami tactics . To get our men back safe was the utmost priority and the government has done that . It may be tough to swallow but its best to wage a war from a position of strength and the way things are we are on the back foot. With the pakis we understand them, their mentality, their culture, their language their thinking, its like Israel and Palestine, but with the chinese despite our long history we are only now beginning to understand their cunning, wicked ways. The military SOPs and ROEs will need to be altered, we need to impose economic cost on China, rapidly improve the border infrastructure, clear military procurement , and show china that 2 can play the game. Its a 3500 kms long border, there's nothing that stops us from encroaching their territory over and over again.

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 19 Jun 2020 03:53

What makes one automatically assume that the Indians didn't have Chinese POWs?
In addition, who said anything about de-escalation?
Instead of beating the chest and flailing the arms, can folks have some patience, belief in the Armed Forces and the GOI?
The same GOI that did Uri, Balakot, Doklam. RJB, 370.

Please be careful with your posts, we have all been warned.

khan · Post by **khan** » 19 Jun 2020 03:54

Ambar wrote: I feel you. I sleep terribly as is but the last 48 hours has taken a terrible toll on me, i am glad covid means i can work from home unshaved, with blood shot eyes and crazy hair. As much as we are emotional about our military and our nation, the hard fact is war should always be the last option but an option nonetheless. China has never encountered a India that gives a damn about their gdp or their supposed military might and refuses to roll over and walk quietly into the dark. So accustomed are they to encroach, put structures and claim it was always theirs that they thought they can continue the process with no fight back. First at Doklum and now in Galwan they seen a new India that can punch back ( and quite literally ). If finger 4 to 8 had a road leading to the chinese camp since 1999 then its unlikely they would move out. They also know what happens in future when they try their salami tactics . To get our men back safe was the utmost priority and the government has done that . It may be tough to swallow but its best to wage a war from a position of strength and the way things are we are on the back foot. With the pakis we understand them, their mentality, their culture, their language their thinking, its like Israel and Palestine, but with the chinese despite our long history we are only now beginning to understand their cunning, wicked ways. The military SOPs and ROEs will need to be altered, we need to impose economic cost on China, rapidly improve the border infrastructure, clear military procurement , and show china that 2 can play the game. Its a 3500 kms long border, there's nothing that stops us from encroaching their territory over and over again.

I am in the same boat.

That said, I feel like the time is now. India needs no other justification to do the needful. The power differential will only grow over time.

But ultimately, GOI will need to decide.

nam · Post by **nam** » 19 Jun 2020 04:13

I am now getting convinced the whole thing was PLA plan, which has gone haywire.

They probably got in to a habit of intruding, getting some deal from GoI, look good in the eye of CCP. As long as things didn't escalate CCP was fine.

This time around a bunch of PLA lot broke that restrain. Now PLA is forced to plan for a potential Indian response and CCP is staring at a meltdown of relation with India and a potential adversary in US camp, right at it's rear..

The water got boiled over..Chinis took our desire to maintain good relation as a sign of weakness..

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 19 Jun 2020 04:20

https://theeasternlink.com/un-chief-urg ... dia-clash/

The leaks have started.

It seems the IA aren't babes in the woods after all. Retaliation was certainly according to planned contingencies. They went across LAC to Chinese held positions, also noted by Abhijit Mitra Iyer (FWIW). They essentially gutted the Chinese like so many trout, with knives and bayonets. Yes, it is barbarous.

They had set up explosives on the ridgelines, triggering rock falls that doomed many Chinese troops. Some reports attribute this to the weight of the Chinese soldiers or a cloud burst. Of course, torrential rains at 15,000ft; the dude who started that bit of disinformation needs to take a course in meteorology.

This was a stunningly ferocious action. The Chinese aren't braying about teaching India another lesson, unhinged and comical. Actually they stopped after Doklam.

Something big must have happened to their outsized egos there too. Perhaps the IA will leak that story soon.

I am sorry so many India soldiers lost their lives as also that lives were wasted on the Chinese side. But I think the message is going to sink into the PRA (people's repression army)- if you want to win, keep the tanks for Tiananmen square, the bullets for when the Falun Gong take their rightful place.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 19 Jun 2020 04:47

So guys here is my understanding of the situation SORRY THE REAL SITUATION- Mostly from open sources, two sources that are not open, and one is not GOI (the other is to an extent of gup shup, no real or otherwise operational secrets are discussed). So disclaimer, to whoever is reading, please I am not revealing anything , it is mostly connecting dots and doing some logical analysis. Please feel free to delete it if it goes far.

So my take on the sequence
1. T+0 hours - Galwan mishap happens, PLA goes back on its word (the right word is betrayal or inability to keep your word) and kills some unarmed IA soldiers. It turns out later that there is more loss in PLA side because of their stupidity but that info only is apparent after T+ x HOURS. No body yet knows this outcome.
1 b) Some of our men also get taken hostages in this
2 a). The political and military leadership had already gamed many situations (including what if Chinese fire the first shot and kill unarmed IA soldiers).
2 b )Per the plan, IA already knows what should be the second step (targets, logistics, backup all preplanned). All moves are gamed. Some other place of IA choosing is pre-selected, forces move in. We have huge element of surprise plus the force is overwhelming and dimensions used for this would have happened months in the escalation order (i.e. what should have been done months in the fighting was our opening shot). Totally unexpected by the chinese
3.T+y hours, goal achieved, some IA casualty and more chicom casualty (mostly because we had element of surprise), area captured, reinforced
4) The beauty many Chinese soldier who had previously come to do salami slicing cannot now go back. They are trapped with IA from all sides. We have captured that was not until unequivocally in our hand.
5. Total death in operations 1 and 2 from IA =20
6. Now negotiation starts. Friends of Chines and TSP in India are all over the news with news of Indian soldier hostages. But within a day or two that news disappear. Why, well we have surrounded a much larger occupying force that will be slaughtered if anything were to happen to Indian hostages. Quickly the hostages are released. (Hint have you heard that news).
7. Chinese have a bigger dilemma, what to do with the occupying force - if they return in exchange they give up that land, if they don't return, well they are at our mercy. And the situation is as such.
8. This round we have won, let no one tell you otherwise.
9. If you want to know, all of this is true or not, follow the media that has tried hard to prop up a scion of political party that has an agreement with CCP for consultation on all matters. That media is wrongly showing a map and shifting goalpost to say that IA has won nothing. Then look atone of BR person map to see the right map and see where we are now.
10. Chinese assurance are not worth the paper they are written on. You thought TSP is chutiya in this respect, chicoms will have TSP for lunch on this. Best of luck at their friendship and any agreement that they have. It will be fun to watch who will sell the other faster, my bet is on the Chinese.
11. There assurance of xxx in exchange of dead bodies flown downstream means 0. And we know it.